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tiler
04-29-2004, 04:38 PM
if your using LW for games why not show your stuff and pick each others brains... and solve problems

what your working on, and technical stuff..what game engine your using......why and how to use them

see how far this goes ;)


original thread
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21712


run and jump around arrow keys to move the mesh
http://www.btinternet.com/~coloured.pixels/Kid_0.2.zip

sleiron
04-30-2004, 08:05 AM
strongarm: I'd be very interested in Level Design for Unreal 2004 with LW!

I'll keep an eye on this thread for sure!

cheers
sleiron

dbolto
04-30-2004, 08:27 AM
I am working on character design and animation for Unreal 2k4 and was wondering if anyone has had any luck w/ the Bristol Animation Export plugins?

obtain
04-30-2004, 01:37 PM
hi

glad i found this thread

im new to using lw for game work, but im learning
i keep reading about game engines, torque and unreal can anyone tell me in noobi language exactly what a game engine is and what i use for in lightwave....is it like a level editor or a converter and where do i get it from, i always thought game engines were only used by programers....please educate me

dbolto
04-30-2004, 01:42 PM
I new at this whole thing too, but to my knowledge a game engine is the main software used to create an entire game from the ground up. And a Game Editor is an App created from the Game Engine to allow people like us a chance to revamp their games. I am using Unreal Editor and if you have a copy of the latest Unreal Tournament 2k4 it comes w/ the Level Editor.

In a nutshell, if you get your hands on an editor you can create custom models and textures and import them. The animation part is what's tricky.

dbolto

obtain
04-30-2004, 01:51 PM
thanks dbolto
i actually understood that...i going to track the unreal engine down or get tournament and some good documentation

tiler
04-30-2004, 02:09 PM
i understood that as well :)

i gota get hold of a level editor for use with blitz3d
...im going to end up with loads of bits n pieces, platforms, bridges, paths, trees and so that will all need to placed in there correct positions within blitz... but dont think unreal will help me on this i know there are a few seasoned coders who have written editors in blitz

sleiron
04-30-2004, 02:11 PM
Does anybody know if Unreal 2004 on Mac comes with the UnrealED as the PC version does?

I couldn't get any info on the developers website if it's included.

Probably someone already has the Mac version and can check on the cd?

thanks
sleiron

dbolto
04-30-2004, 02:13 PM
Let's try to keep these types of posts going because there's power in numbers. I get sick of hearing all of the Max Users talk about game modding and how Max and Maya are the only 3d apps capable of doing games.

dbolto
04-30-2004, 02:15 PM
Here's a start guys:

http://sv1.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/unr_main.php

Hope it helps get you guys up to speed as it did with me.

How does doing a mod sound? Hmm?

Dbolto

wrosado
04-30-2004, 02:18 PM
no unrealED for mac.

will

tiler
04-30-2004, 02:30 PM
i totaly agree....keep this going its good stuff...
i keep getting told i should switch to max

if any wants to post wip about games , a little screen shot here n there wont hurt, low poly models .....then post it here...
i know i will as soon as i get more movement on the little game thingy im workin on, then this is where i will post it....

got the guy running around with a joypad but screwed up the jump...i been using the wrong command, i used a command that used world co-ords not character co-ords so when ever i ran him around then jumped using his y# he always jumped to the center of the world 0,y#,0 ...... im guna suss this 2moz after a cold beer


useful link dbolto... a mod ..scripting does that mean using c++ theres always c++ creeping about somewhere

Q:
is any one any good at low res textures for characters and do you have/know any tutorials...this is my worst subject

Retroid
04-30-2004, 02:32 PM
Hi guys. I use LW to develop models for games using an engine that we have developed ourselves. Our most recent project is a piece of software that takes LW object surface settings and converts them to pixel shaders so you get a real time object that looks like it would if rendered.

Good to see you low poly guys:)

sleiron
04-30-2004, 02:38 PM
Retroid

anything to show us here....you know, keeping the 'momentum' going... ;)

would be nice to see some render from a game engine which actually uses LW as modeling tool.

cheers
sleiron

wrosado
04-30-2004, 02:54 PM
ssounds good, retroid!

strongarm27
04-30-2004, 03:01 PM
HI all,

I will post some screens this weekend of some
stuff I am working on. I have some suggestions
for plugins that help with low poly modeling.
some cheap some not even close to cheap. There
is this new plug called true bump that cost about
30 us. It subdivides your model and at the same
time you can add a bump map to deform geometry
When used with microwave(another plug you
can really get realistic results right out of lightwave.
Like I said I will post some screens of part of a
level with edges on so you can see what I mean.
Its great to get this going as no one really talks
about game content but as I see it this will be
were most of the modeling jobs will be in the
future, at least more than say film.

strongarm27

Ratboy
05-01-2004, 09:49 AM
I've done a lot of game work in Lightwave; all of my vehicles and buildings for Mechcommander and MCG (http://irrationaldesigns.com/Samples/MCX_Cermak.jpg) were done in LW.

wrosado
05-01-2004, 10:31 AM
mcg looks great! nice work...

I've done a character model for ut2k3. learned a lot from it. I wish the exporter was simpler to use and i wish that lightwave would support the skeleton system from the unreal games... that would help a lot.

tiler
05-01-2004, 12:49 PM
@Ratboy

like that terrain..everything looks nice n clear....what res are your tiles

Ratboy
05-01-2004, 03:18 PM
Thanks :cool:
The terrain tiles have 128x128 texture maps, and were actually rendered in 3DS (the DOS version) because its crappy scanline renderer was perfect for that one job. The tiles themselves were around 220 pixels wide or so, and there were around 3600 individual tiles in a tileset.

tiler
05-01-2004, 03:44 PM
viewed your site....like your work...ALOT

what specs you working to: ie how many polys per character you have bring it in at ,

im just trying to get an overall example of total polys on screen

Ratboy
05-01-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by tiler
viewed your site....like your work...ALOT

what specs you working to: ie how many polys per character you have bring it in at ,

im just trying to get an overall example of total polys on screen That totally depends on the project and the target platform. Modern fighting games go into the low thousands per character. A sky-view tactical game like Dungeon Siege may have characters at the 800-1200 poly level. A 1st Person RPG character may have 3000 or more, with most of them concentrated in the head and upper body.

mkiii
05-02-2004, 07:10 AM
Hey guys, its great to see enthusiasm for creating game content with LW. The modding community seems to be a little exploited niche so far (by Newtek), probably because they are unlikely to sell copies of LW to the majority of people doing mods for fun.

As for the commercial side of making games. I've been making all my games content in LW for years. & I can tell you that not many people like me are going to be releasing WIP or details of any current projects. Basically, it's more than our jobs are worth. Not that there is much wip with my characters anyway - it generally just gets done as fast as possible.

As for those poly counts - thank your stars that you are doing stuff for PC - PS2 games are painfully low in poly & texture counts.

Ratboy
05-02-2004, 11:30 AM
Hey, I'd love to do PS2 stuff. I really enjoy the challenge of working in insanely tight memory spaces.

Silkrooster
05-02-2004, 08:55 PM
Does anybody know if the creators of Unreal are changing over from Lightwave to Maya. The reason I ask is that Unreal 2004 comes with the learning edition of Maya. As well as a plugin for exporting to unreal.

strongarm27
05-03-2004, 01:53 AM
I think its a freebee for maya to get it in the hands
of users for free. Train people on it and they will
use it in the industry. There is a direct importer
for .lwo files in unreal ed. Maya limited was in the
2003 package also. Ok Im a little late but here
is some of the stuff I am working on in unreal
ed. This is a large central asteroid that will be the
mid point in the level and provide a blocking volume
for geometry on each side of the object. Its unreal
ed speek for a way to hide geometry from the
render engine so it doesn't have to figure out
if all the geometry needs to be shown.
I through in a image of a incomplete smaller node.
The small node is about 1900 polys but also
about 50 meters across. I also used lightwave
to create the space map backdrop with the
help of some plugins. The ship is in game content.

strongarm27

http://home.comcast.net/~shawnogle/aprocess.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shawnogle/bnode.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shawnogle/cnode.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shawnogle/anode.jpg

tiler
05-03-2004, 04:17 AM
strongarm that ship looks pretty cool...do you have bigger shots
its looks like its got a good texture on it


uh oh we showing cages now are we....thats like showing your underbelly....but what the hell,

im only an amateur, hobbyist, enthusiast and all the other noobi words

1800 polys trippled, i was told between 1k 2k...but now i think i should have gone more
http://www.btinternet.com/~coloured.pixels/Kid-X.zip this is the same cycle test as before, just incase any one new to the thread wants to see the anim cycles

strongarm27
05-03-2004, 05:04 AM
I could show the ship for reference but it is part
of the package you get with unreal 2004. Its
not mine thats why I said in game content.
maybe I should have been more clear.
like others have said polygon count depends on
your purpose for the model.
unreal can handle many more polygons than say
a game console game can. you just have to figure
the purpose and work to a constraint. The nice
thing about consoles is everyone knows were
the poly limit is. With pc's it depends on the rig.
I have a ti 4400 in my pc and the frame rates
are good but not great. If the engine you are
using needs less polys than use what it can
handle. It will make you a better modeler.
I will have some more to show later in the week
as the level starts coming together.

strongarm27

tiler
05-03-2004, 10:31 AM
im begining to become obsessed with poly limits and fps,
im developing a twitch in one eye and i keep mumbling. All i need now is a padded cell and some crayons

but its still a hell of a lot of fun :)

mcpherson3d
05-03-2004, 02:04 PM
LW was used to create several cars for Need for Speed Underground. To see the process, check out the link below;

http://www.mcpherson3d.com/process.html

tiler
05-05-2004, 12:15 AM
a little update on the kid-x thingy ma jigg

now has movement using arrow keysor joypad, better gravity and friction/drag,
collision with ground object, run and jump around, no background gfx yet

press spacebar for wire view its funky, j or L/ctrl to jump
again number keys 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 for anim cycles

size 747kb, zip file

http://www.btinternet.com/~coloured.pixels/Kid_1.0.zip

strongarm27
05-06-2004, 02:43 AM
Hay played around with your caracter. Pretty fun
I was getting a solid 60 frames but that seemed
to be limited. Like it had a frame limiter on the
engine. Now all we need is some kid ninja bad
guys or maybe a cookie monster. Great fun keep
going. It looked like you may need to check your
smoothing on the inside shoes. One poly is not
smoothing right in game. Does the engine use
textures?

strongarm27

fourd
05-06-2004, 09:26 AM
FPS is generally limited by your Monitor Refresh rate, at least for multi-player internet games.


As far as LW for game modeling, it's a great tool for it. Serious Sam, everyone remebers that one.

Me and a buddy Boulyabase used LW7.0/7.5 for the mesh creation of our last game, Trajectory Zone. The game is in final beta, finally, and hopefully be released sometime here in the future. It's been 2 years in production.

Trajectory Zone SS's (http://www.midnightryder.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=17)
More updated SS's (http://www.midnightryder.com/invboard/index.php?act=SF&f=31&st=)

90% of the meshes are exclusivley LW, with one other modeler using Max. And the games is using the Tribes2 engine

conor
05-06-2004, 09:29 AM
@tiler
i like it, when are you going to put some level graphics in
i want to see more

i played about in wire view mode...cool

tiler
05-06-2004, 11:06 AM
@strongarm
yeh i put a frame limit on, (60fps) something i was playing with the zip is updated and i took this out , just playing with things at the moment, learning

...the dreaded non-smoothed poly yeh ive noticed it (weird), its on my to do list :)

i just got to do a few more anim cycles, then add the jet pack
and work out more collision stuff, plus a better control system, i want it more like an 8 way scroller but finer using an analogue joypad, not the left/right arrow to turn up/down to move that is kak, i have to figure out how to add more collision spheres to him for ledge hanging and stuff...and yeh blitz uses texture i just havnt got round to them.. yet, the bad guys are probably going to be manga style robots..just bought a load of manga/anime books

@fourd
nice stuff u got there

@conor glad u like it :)
i will add some level gfx when i finish the control and collision for the kid, one step at a time..but i will post any new stuff

fourd
05-06-2004, 11:08 AM
Thanks, I'll have to give your game a try tonight, I'm at work right now :(

tiler
05-06-2004, 11:14 AM
hi fourd

its not a game its just my first attempt at putting things together
using lightwave and blitz3d, its just the main character running about.. but its fun

fourd
05-06-2004, 03:55 PM
Hehe, I just ran that guy for a few minutes. Looks pretty cool. Now attach a camera to his head for 3rd Person view and one for 1st person..then do all that other stuff so I can have some more fun. Oh, and put some obstacles in there:)

Animation is pretty good. The only thing I noticed was the jump cycle is a little weak. Meaning it needs to be sped up a bit. And the landing crouch starts to soon. Maybe put a little more power into the landing as well..more umpffff... But other than that, looks cool, and is fun for now :)

Turner
05-07-2004, 07:36 PM
I'm extremely disappointed in the lack of editors, and specifially UnrealEd, for Mac...

The UT2K4 Demo runs amazingly well on my G5 2x2 and 20" Cinema Display (as it should) and I had high hopes for creating something.

Sadly, it ain't gonna happen.

While more and more >games< are being released for Mac (e.g. Battlefield 1942, Tron 2.0) there are no editors.

I realize it may not be lucrative for developers to port these editors to Mac; however, one would think, with the high percentage of Mac users being designers anyway, it would be a no-brainer for anyone interested in creating interactive 3D environments.

One of my clients wants some real-time architectural visualization and UnreaEd would have been ideal.

Oh well, here's to waiting until I have some legitimate reason to get a new PC.

strongarm27
05-08-2004, 12:28 AM
all your content can be created in lightwave
on a mac. You just need a slapped together
pc to run the editor. I only use the pc for unreal
ed and a few apps I can't get on the mac. Don't
cut off your nose. You can get the torq engine
for the mac. Its not as expansive as unreal but it
could do for you and its cheap to get into. A pc is
just a tool and it only takes a very cheep pc to
run unreal ed. If its the difference between work
and no work I would chose this work. I hate my
pc but it has a perpose just like my old turbo
airbrush. It was flaky it spat and caused me alot
of extra work but I used it only when my awata
would not do as fine a line as I needed. use the
tool that gets the job done.


strongarm27

Turner
05-08-2004, 05:04 AM
Well, ok, that's good news.

My PC is a PIII 500 with its processor upgraded to 1.2 ghz, and a 32-meg video card.. I don't know if you have any idea if this would work...

The other caveat is that I'd have to have -2- copies of Unreal Tournament 2K4, one for Mac and one for PC and that kinda sucks.

(Or, can I get UnrealEd without purchasing UT2K4? I can't seem to find it anywhere..)

Are there other 1st-person games worthwhile pursuing?

Last, where can I find tutorials for LW>UT and LW>other games? I saw the one tutorial here but there must be others.

Thanks,
Andrew

strongarm27
05-08-2004, 02:27 PM
first off the special addition dvd has all the tuts on
it. Get that if you can. It will explain 90% of
unreal ed. The rest is up to you as I found out.
You really dont need both copies. I bought both
for testing but I guess if your client is on a mac
you need both. You can download it I think.
I am not sure were. A good place to look for info
is 3dbuzz.com. Has many links and video tutorials
that are on the dvd. a 4mx is minumum to run
unreal and that goes for unreal ed. I have a ti 4400.
It runs faster editing than in game. Many
preview options and everything can be turned off.
VERY important unreal units are not really anything
and when bringing things from that to
lightwave you need to down size to 2% to get
correct metters. The reverse is to upscale 5000%.
this will keep you work flow so you can work
between unreal and lightwave. A 1.2ghz should
work fine. If you get into movie making aspect
you can script fly throughs of buildings easily.

strongarm27

bot
05-15-2004, 10:06 AM
hi folks,

i'm in unreal/lw gamedesign too ;)
just beginning ;)

strongarm27, can you explain this with the units and grids with some pics or something? some modeler setup pic :)

i'm a little confused with inches, meters, units and so on...

i have tried to understand the settings on that tutorial http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/UT2003/index.html


Also, keep in mind that one unit in UnrealED corresponds with 1 m in LightWave® A character in Unreal Tournament 2003 is 96 units high (approx. 2m). Sixteen units are approximately 33 cm = 1 foot.

but i'm a little confused about it :confused:

thx :)
bot

Skunk
05-16-2004, 11:40 AM
I agree with fourd, the jump cycle is the only thing that i don't REALLY REALLY like!! i just don't think it has the physics or realisticness in it.

Here are some equations that might help you out (if you don't already know them)

X = 1/2 * a * t^2 - Vo * t

meaning that for time t, you are at displacement x (vertically from the ground in meters). a is the acceleration, which on earth is (-9.8). The only tricky thing is Vo (or inicial speed or velocity), but once you figure out what you want for that, the equation will give you the exact distance from the ground, so you it looks a bit more realistic.

Well, see how you like that.

SKUNK

P.S. what language do you use?
P.P.S. what's the difference between 2 and 3 on your KidX 'game'?

dbolto
05-17-2004, 11:25 AM
Bot, this is how i figured out the dimensions from LW to Unreal:

My settings are set in the display panel as:

-SI
-Meters
-Grid Units = 1
-Fixed = 1M

The average height of a character in Unreal is 96 Units.

So for LW it is 96M.

Hopefully, this is clear and easy to follow.

dbolto

www.dbolto.com

tiler
05-19-2004, 02:23 AM
@skunk

yeh i know what you mean about the phyics on the jump..but im not a coder im a real newb where this is concerned, i basicly just gave him a height to reach and then add some gravity

im using blitz3d
the original kid zip had no movement, ive since changed the link so they all point to zip2

this coding thing is not easy...im still tryigng to figure out collision spheres

tiler
05-20-2004, 07:13 AM
just been messing about with collisions..it was pretty hard going
this is real raw stuff, needs alot of tweaking ..but i learned alot

run around and jump on temp platforms

the naming on the zips is starting again at 0.2

with a quick camera follow
http://www.btinternet.com/~coloured.pixels/Kid_0.2.zip

tiler
05-20-2004, 07:45 AM
oops soz a pic...screen shot

tiler
05-21-2004, 04:53 AM
for anyone who is looking at the Blitz3d thingy

here is a direct link for the Lightwave to Blitz converter by Lee Page

http://www.terabit.nildram.co.uk/lwconvert.zip

have fun its way cool :)

Lude
05-22-2004, 07:01 AM
are u guys having success at baking radiosity etc into your game models?

p.s newtek why not ad a section to the fourm for games :)

Skunk
05-22-2004, 08:33 AM
@Lude: That would be a great idea. I was thinking about the same thing.

SKUNK

tiler
05-22-2004, 11:42 AM
never tried to bake radiosity...dont see why it shouldnt work

bot
05-22-2004, 12:27 PM
hi

dbolto, thanks for the unit tips in unrealed ;)

tiler, nice work ;)
du you plan a complete game in blitzbasic?

lude, i think there is no problem do bake radioasity on surfaces. there is a baking tutorial here on the newtek site.
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/surface/baking/index.html
the problem on this tutorial is, its use the atlas uv maping.
in unrealed, i can only use the planar uv mapping. thats a lot more work to skining the entire model.

i try this tutorial
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/games/uv_mapping/index.html
, maybe its more succsess to a easy converting from lw to unrealed :)

any other tips for texturemapping in lw to use the objects in unrealed?

i hope, my english is readable :D

tiler
05-22-2004, 12:31 PM
hi bot

a complete game is soooo far off, id be happy with a demo

strongarm27
05-22-2004, 09:20 PM
The baking of radiosity is possable but the baker
in lightwave is limited and slow. The only way to
do it right is to use mircowave plugin. It works
like baking should work in lightwave. The only downside
is the expence. It caust 400.00 for it. I purchased it.
its everything lightwaves baker should be and isn't.
www.evs3d.com is were you can find it. I wish
it was part of lightwave because its better than
anything out there.

strongram27

Skunk
05-23-2004, 11:49 AM
Thank you tiler for blitz and that B3D converter. It's great!
One problem, though:
When i try to texture a simple sphere (created in blitz) it has this 'ghost sphere' around it. HelP!
If anyone can figure out why i would be eternally greatful.

SKUNK

NOTE: it's on top of a mirror, but the mirror has nothing to do with the 'ghost'

Skunk
05-23-2004, 12:22 PM
okay, tiler, get ready for an all-out bash of your 'game'.
fistly, it's great, it's perfect, now change:

item 1: his butt. sorry but it's just kinda distracting.

item 2: going from his walk sequence to his run sequence #1, he takes something like 5 steps. I don't know about anyone else, but i would like it to be maybe 2 or three steps before he starts running.

item 3: talking about the first run sequence, it looks to me like he's moving / taking longer strides than he's going forward. maybe it's just me

item 4: great idle sequence! sick

item 5: make sure when you actually make the game you show us the front of him too, the front was very good. (maybe as he clears a level, we get a perspective shot as the camera pivots to follow him?)

item 6: when he's running, and then jumps, he looks like he's just jumping with, like, one leg or something, like it's incredibly easy. If that' what you want, then i oppologize, otherwise i would suggest maybe another animation for anim cycle #4.
EDIT: I just looked at it again: it's probably going through anim cycle 4 too fast so it all but passes it up. try slowing it down a bit. ;)

item 7: final problem i found: you can 'easily' climb the wooden structure thing by jumping onto the side of it and (while pressing up) keep jumping. That could present a problem unless you have water and/or empty space surrounding all of your maps (or theiy're enclosed :rolleyes: )

Skunk
05-23-2004, 12:23 PM
Here's a pic. from item 7, above:

tiler
05-23-2004, 12:32 PM
im sure there are samples in the blitz folder dealing with mapping a sphere created in blitz..
ive never used the internal createsphere, did you download the demo or get the full version...did any samples come with it ?

i will have a look and see what i can find
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
all good points...

remember its WIP and im learning...but yes the run is slightly off
its coz of the build up of speed
0 to .5 walk when > then run still increasing by 0.2# im going to get rid of the build up and go for a time delay coz theres no real way i can find to time the anim to the speed

speed#=.5
counter=counter+1
when counter>10 then run speed#=.8#

-------------------------------------------------------------
and yep i know about the wall thingy..its caused me quite a few headaches...i think its coz of the way i have set up collisions
im workin on that at the moment


...oh and the jump is on my to do list as well.....

:)

tiler
05-23-2004, 01:08 PM
skunk i think i may have solved the walking up walls
i was playing about trying to access the charactyers bones from within blitz and use more pivots...onto next headache


http://www.btinternet.com/~coloured.pixels/Test.zip

Skunk
05-23-2004, 08:47 PM
sick, it looks like you fixed it (though, oddly enough: i somehow jumped on the big one from the ground once :eek: ), but how did you get that to work out?

yea, i remember a blitz sample that had a textured ball, i'll have to: "Delve the Code" (duh duh duuh!).

Um, to answer your question: i only have the 'cheep version', i don't have $100 for the real copy :( :( :( (poor High School Student).

Oh well, I'll try to post some of my 'game' soon.... *sigh*
;)

namarie,
SKUNK

tiler
05-24-2004, 01:34 AM
does the cheepy version give you a membership number to the forums..this is where i find most answers now

Skunk
05-24-2004, 10:49 AM
Nope, the Demo version doesn't give you anything, i think. Oh well, I can't even compile.....*ugh*

SKUNK

P.S. how do you do the textures, do you have two textures over each other? or what?

tiler
05-24-2004, 11:25 AM
try this, a character with image map i did while i was learning
to create stuff for blitz, source code included...you got the first of many headaches....loads more to come while your learning

the red spheres attched to him is just collision stuff while i got the characters bones

Lude
05-25-2004, 02:32 AM
Here’s a link I found on another forum, plug-in for normal mapping. Haven’t tried it myself but I could be useful.

http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/lw/normalmaps.html

tiler
05-25-2004, 04:02 PM
this looks most interesting Lude...nice one