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View Full Version : Lets give Newtek some positive feedback



koots
04-28-2004, 03:02 PM
I think LW and Newtek are top notch. Maybe they could do a better job with marketing but no is perfect. I hope there are some people out there that feel this way too. Everyone keeps bringing up other 3d packages. how much is maya?? 6,999 so u can render fur?? how many of these things come with LW for a lot less!! in my opinion LW is AMazing

tokyo drifter
04-28-2004, 06:02 PM
my postive newtek feedback for the day:






w00t

GeorgeDittmar
04-28-2004, 08:06 PM
yeah i will give them positive feedback when i get a certain thing in the mail. hehe

js33
04-28-2004, 08:23 PM
I'm happy as I got LW 8 over a week ago last Monday. :D

Cheers,
JS

xeno3d
04-28-2004, 08:40 PM
okay.. LightWave is a killer app.

Beamtracer
04-28-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by koots
Lets give Newtek some positive feedback
If someone posts here listing features that they think Lightwave should have, then that IS positive feedback.

What's worse is if that user gives up, stops posting here, and goes off to use some other application instead of Lightwave. If they're still posting here, then they still want to use Lightwave.

If you're referring to Jin's recent postings, he criticized some aspects of Lightwave, but he also said that Lightwave is the application that he wants to use. So, even after weighing up the pros and cons of various 3D apps, he still prefers to use Lightwave. I think that's positive.

hrgiger
04-28-2004, 08:49 PM
I'll just say that I think the new development team has done a great job jumping into the deep end of the pool without much guidance from the people who created LW. I look forward to getting my LW8 (hopefully tomorrow) and look forward to what's next.

Exper
04-29-2004, 02:48 AM
Come on guys...
start to help NT in developing a better app version after version...
rather than wasting your time with silly maonings
(in case you're wondering... I still don't have the "8 box")!

My appreciation goes to NewTek and the new Developers Team! :cool:

Bye.

Librarian
04-29-2004, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Exper
Come on guys...
start to help NT in developing a better app version after version...
rather than wasting your time with silly maonings

I agree. But I wish we could communicate directly with a developer of 8 and talk with them in a forum.
Not just these one way communication @[email protected]
That`s more helpful for both sides. A bridge between developers(not the marketing guys) and community.

WilliamVaughan
04-29-2004, 03:09 AM
let's hope that our dev team "doesn't" spend too much time in these forums and we keep them locked up working on the new tools instead :)

Matt
04-29-2004, 03:09 AM
I'm forever posting requests simply because I want LightWave
to grow from strength to strength.

I can appreciate the mountain the new development team have
to climb and for that I congratulate them, they must've been
burning the midnight oil for months now, and there's still a lot to do.

Thanks to Proton, Chuck and the whole of the marketing team
for keeping us up to date with events too, much appreciated.

Cheers
Matt

hazmat777
04-29-2004, 03:12 AM
I would like to say to the developers that I have looked into LW's features, the GUI (fewer icons the better) and community of LW users and I'm convinced that NT is the way to go for me. Thank You!

colkai
04-29-2004, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by proton
let's hope that our dev team "doesn't" spend too much time in these forums and we keep them locked up working on the new tools instead :)

Yo - Proton, ya really gottaturn off that echo facility on your keyboard dude! :p

It shouldn't needto be said, but Newtek did a hell of a job here, new coders, new features and major disruption and we still have no idea what new toys are on the horizon for the LW8.X features.

Bravo!

Edbittner
04-29-2004, 04:49 AM
Wow! Gettin' a real sense of Deja-Vu here Proton.
Ed

S*R* PRODUCTIONS

tudor
04-29-2004, 05:05 AM
Yup. LW rocks!
Some things needs to be better, but hey! What program does not need improving in some areas. The perfect app today will be outdated in a year. LW will continue to improve. A setback with the old team leaving, but new blood means new ideas.

In LW I feel like an artist. In most other programs I feel like an engineer.

mattclary
04-29-2004, 06:09 AM
Observe avatar. Short of naming my first-born "Chuck Newtek Clary", I can't think of any more positive feedback to give to a company. :cool:

colkai
04-29-2004, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by mattclary
Observe avatar. Short of naming my first-born "Chuck Newtek Clary", I can't think of any more positive feedback to give to a company. :cool:
how about 'Chuck Proton' or if it's a girl 'Irene' ;)

Call ya house 'wavers retreat' ? ya dog 'spliney' :p

mkiii
04-29-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by mattclary
Observe avatar. Short of naming my first-born "Chuck Newtek Clary", I can't think of any more positive feedback to give to a company. :cool:
Ya big showoff :)

I hope you're going to get the colour changed to blue to reflect the new packaging.

Jaffro
04-29-2004, 10:40 AM
Yup LW[8] rules guys! Good work. Now lets push lw forward... Its going to be great, espically with Proton being so trigger happy ;)

meatycheesyboy
04-29-2004, 11:15 AM
Alright, I'm probably going to sound like a big *sshole here, which is not my intent, but I have a question.

Why does Newtek need positive feedback from us?

They're in the business of developing a product, they aren't an insecure kid crying in the corner over what to do next. They had better have an idea of direction without the need of us to give them reinforcement or else they're livelihood is on the line.

I think that things like feature requests are great but things like, "Way to go Newtek! Great job on getting LW8 out!", just because they need to hear it is kind of silly.

If I'm coming off as rude or whatnot, just tell me and I'll go back to lurking but basically, when Proton said, "let's hope that our dev team "doesn't" spend too much time in these forums and we keep them locked up working on the new tools instead ", I think he said the same thing I'm saying just a little more cryptically.

hrgiger
04-29-2004, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't say you're being an a$$hole meaty, but just put yourself into Newtek's shoes, especially the developers. They've taken on the task of putting out a new version of a major application that a lot of people use and depend on. It's encouraging I would think for the developers to hear that they're at least on the right track.

Or, the way I like to think about it.....Stop tipping your pizza delivery guy and start hoping he doesn't spit on your pizza the next time he delivers it.

I just feel that encouragement from it's base can only inspire them to reach for greater goals. Having said that, you still want to voice your concerns for what work the software needs, because if you tell them it's perfect, what motivation do they have to improve it?

T-Light
04-29-2004, 11:35 AM
Oh come on there Meaty Cheese Boy, Cheer up. :D

You can pay people for work, you can pay bonuses and you can pat them on the back for a job well done. But in a industry such as this, having positive feedback from your end users goes a hell of a long way to making it all worthwhile.

Best wishes to everyone at Newtek, I've only had 8 for a couple of days, but it's exactly what I was hoping for. A truly fantastic product. :). Very good job, Very well done. :)

ps Love the Moon Base Alpha Scene :cool:

pooby
04-29-2004, 11:46 AM
What about if you think they're on the wrong track?

I have championed Lightwave for years, our studio uses only Lightwave and I have consistently stood up for Lightwave as being a good solid and simple and fun to use tool.
I still think that it is so in many respects, but I am also very disappointed with the 'new animation tools' in 8.
The dynamics I have no problem with. I have not used them yet but they look very useful.
But as for character animation tools. I think that Newtek are on entirely the wrong track. Instead of developing, stabilising and adding essential features to their old IK system, they have added an alternative system that, to put it very politely, is awkward.
I put in requests for features that would have benefitted Lightwave's meagre animation tools, tools which have been standard in most other packages for years.
So when none of them turn up and I find that the development time has been spent on something I cant use, I'm not going to jump about praising Newtek.
I'm actually rather peeved off..
But I DO want to continue using Lightwave. I just will have to buy Messiah, which is what I would have done months ago if my questions about FK/IK blending and Dynamic parenting in 8 were answered instead of ignored.

colkai
04-29-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by meatycheesyboy
Alright, I'm probably going to sound like a big *sshole here, which is not my intent, but I have a question.

Why does Newtek need positive feedback from us?

They're in the business of developing a product, they aren't an insecure kid crying in the corner over what to do next.

I think what it boils down to is, there are so many folks dead set on taking side-swipes at Newtek for what they are doing / are not doing, (in the minds of the posters). It gives a false impression just 'cause these guys feel a dire need to think, somehow, their opion alone is vital to Newtek and without it Newtek will fail (puuleease! :p).
This thread is for those of us who understand to show Newtek just that, we understand.
Even a developer can get down-hearted if he thinks his best efforts are not worth a damn and un-appreciated. I speak from cold experience here.

Every so often, its nice for those of us who are positive about Lightwave, Newtek and the future, to bang OUR drum and do some shouting. ;)

Fausto
04-29-2004, 01:01 PM
I too won't praise Newtek, I honestly think they've handled the whole upgrade process as poorly as humanly possible. Thier customer service is non-existant and the whole process for upgrading verification etc, is the most poorly conceived I've ever seen.

The only reason that they were able to survive this fiasco is because they've made arrangements with other software companies to spice up the product offering. This is and was an attempt at consolation for customers that would be waiting more than a year for thier product. How many loyal LW users would have given Newtek this necessary revenue by paying nearly a year in advance for an upgrade that's fallen somewhat short of it's hype had they not offered the additional packages? I wouldn't have done that for sure.

On top of that, most of the upgrade feature addins come from plugins I've already purchased.. not from Newtek's own developers. This may in fact be the first real verifiable case of vapour programmers, it may turn out that Newtek doesn't really have programmers, just people adept at lscript.

Honestly I'm wondering if I was asleep at the wheel when I made the upgrade purchase. I wonder if the dollars wouldn't have been better spent toward another product.

Obviously, I'm pretty peeved at this company.

colkai
04-29-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by colkai
I think what it boils down to is, there are so many folks dead set on taking side-swipes at Newtek for what they are doing / are not doing, (in the minds of the posters).

I guess some folks needed to prove the point I was making :rolleyes:

Fausto
04-29-2004, 01:28 PM
Hey I purchased a product with a 1000 + dollar price tag I expect a good product and a certain degree of professionalism and competency in return. I expect that the processes for upgrading, fullfillment and customer service will be in place and be thoughtful. If that doesn't happen I'm going to voice my opinion to the negatory. I praise positively when the company deserves it, I show dissatisfaction when they fall short. Newtek have dropped the ball on this in many many ways.

Elmar Moelzer
04-29-2004, 01:50 PM
vapour programmers, it may turn out that Newtek doesn't really have programmers

You know, members of the dev- team keep reading these forums.
I am one of them. I am not made of vapour actually, neither are Jamie, Bob, Art, Dave, Scott Thompson, Scott Martindale, Peter, Steve (who just happened to become dad the second time, which is not bad for someone made of vapour ;) ),Kevin, Deuce, William, David, Andrew and Ino and all the others that contributed to this release...
We are all real people, with feelings too, you know...
CU
Elmar

TSpyrison
04-29-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer

We are all real people, with feelings too, you know...


And that’s why some of us are here to give ya’ll Kudos!

(me included)

:D

Chuck
04-29-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Fausto
I too won't praise Newtek, I honestly think they've handled the whole upgrade process as poorly as humanly possible. Thier customer service is non-existant and the whole process for upgrading verification etc, is the most poorly conceived I've ever seen.

In the interest of being able to serve you better, do you have specific problems that you encountered that you would like to email me about, or do you have specific suggestions for improvements?

In particular, we only needed a verification process for the one group of people that we had no direct record of - people who already owned 7.5 and who pruchased a pre-order of LightWave [8] through a reseller. That group of people had not had to register with us, so we made a way for them to confirm for us their purchase and their shipping address, so we could get them their updates. What different procedure would you suggest than what we offered?


On top of that, most of the upgrade feature addins come from plugins I've already purchased.. not from Newtek's own developers. This may in fact be the first real verifiable case of vapour programmers, it may turn out that Newtek doesn't really have programmers, just people adept at lscript.

This is simply not the truth. In the case of the major acquisitions, the programmers who created the products were also brought on board and are now working for NewTek. They advanced the tools that were acquired by a generation over what had been available for purchase, and they worked on the integration of those tools into the core. They will continue advancing these tools and will also be creating new ones as we move forward in development. Other programming staff were hired as well, and have been working on the core and on new features as well, for this release and beyond.

lwaddict
04-29-2004, 02:17 PM
Newtek,

I wouldn't worry too much about the guy who posted:

"Hey I purchased a product with a 1000 + dollar price tag I expect a good product and a certain degree of professionalism and competency in return. I expect that the processes for upgrading, fullfillment and customer service will be in place and be thoughtful. If that doesn't happen I'm going to voice my opinion to the negatory."

Since he's obviously never bought software, much less a Microsoft product...I'll have to check later to see his bashings on their boards of course to verify this.

1.) Degree of professionalism?
Why not display this in his posts while complaining?

2.) Competency?
Not shown in his rants.

3.) Best one yet, he "expects" cust serv in place and thoughtful...
Thoughtful???

I'm thinkin' since this guy wants it all, he'll always be dissapointed.

By the way dude.
If YOU can express your opinions so freely...
don't be surprised at the opposition expressing their opinions.

My house payment get made more than regularly thanks to Newtek, Lightwave, and Video Toasters. Not sure I'd expect more professionalism, competency, or thoughtfulness from them...
But hey, Newtek! Toss in a hat or t-shirt and I'll erect a statue of the logo in my front yard!

Newtek Rocks.
Not sure if I can say the same for some of the members of their discussion boards though.

lwaddict
04-29-2004, 02:22 PM
By the way...
Newtek developers,

I received my Lightwave 8 upgrade and quickly got it running.

In fact, it's been streamlining many of the fx shots I've been planning out over the last month and...
"drumroll"...
I've been able to utilize the new dynamics to save my group some serious money on a feature we've been in preproduction on.

WAY TO GO!

Newtek Rocks.

Fausto
04-29-2004, 02:48 PM
Chuck I'll email you with some suggestions and comments, unless you'd like me to post them publically.

I'll give you one comment though regarding the verification email and form; in my particular case and I suspect this applies to others as well, the 10-digit number that is required when filling out the form is an 8-digit number. That's right, the DFX package that I received from the Canadian reseller came with only an 8-digit number on the outside of the box, unusable for the web form, try it you'll see what I mean.

This raises questions; Why isn't there direct complete communication between the resellers and Newtek? I mean the reseller took my delivery information at the time of the purchase, it's needed to verify the credit card why isn't this information also sent to Newtek when the purchase is processed? It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, like there's no connection between accounting and fulfillment. Why isn't there a better information conduit between Newtek and the resellers, not too mention accounting and fulfillment?

So the steps are, go to Newtek.com, find reseller in my area, contact them, give them my contact info as well as purchase info, including serial number, address, phone number and email. Then wait several weeks to have Newtek contact me to re-submit information that was already aquired by the reseller at the time of purchase just so the order can be fullfilled.

Why would Newtek even have resellers if this is the process? Hire a call centre in India for periods when sales traffic is high and manage the slow times with your internal sales and service staff. Make the training service that resellers fulfill a separate business from the product sale and support that effort, there isn't enough money in it for the resellers anyway.

It is a goofy, multistep process that is inconvenient for customers that adds cost both in time and money for both Newtek and customers. There are numerous, proven, less costly, more efficient ways to do this.

Fausto
04-29-2004, 02:55 PM
lwaddict!

If you knew what you were chirping about, I'd respect your submission. It's painfully obvious you don't have a clue.

Jean-Paul Lar.
04-29-2004, 03:19 PM
NewTek rocks baby!!!:D

Intuition
04-29-2004, 06:09 PM
Well, lemme put it this way....I have made a living from Lightwave since 4.0 till now which is around 9 years.

So I think newtek is great.

They provided a workhorse for me to create a lifestyle.

Thanks guys. Can't wait to see LW8 and even though I can't wait I am happy with 7.5, right now even as I type this, rendering the great stuff that is possible from your companies efforts.

I'll be in the NT camp for some time to come. :D

colkai
04-30-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
In the case of the major acquisitions, the programmers who created the products were also brought on board and are now working for NewTek. They advanced the tools that were acquired by a generation over what had been available for purchase, and they worked on the integration of those tools into the core. They will continue advancing these tools and will also be creating new ones as we move forward in development. Other programming staff were hired as well, and have been working on the core and on new features as well, for this release and beyond.

Which is why I and many other truly believe the future looks really bright for LW, there are some great minds that have been brought "into the fold".
I expect great things to happen before LW8.x is laid to rest and I pretty confident I will not be disappointed. I may be considered naive or a 'fanboy' but I think a lot of what folks are dreaming of for LW will be appearing.
Let's face it, there is some major new talent at Newtek, to suggest these guys, (who have produced som stunning plugins previously), are suddenly incapable of moving forward in their development, is, at best, churlish.

So I say GO NEWTEK ! :D

WilliamVaughan
04-30-2004, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by lwaddict

I've been able to utilize the new dynamics to save my group some serious money on a feature we've been in preproduction on.



Great news! Keep us updated and I would love to see the work when it is completed....

Exper
04-30-2004, 03:53 AM
LW8 is the foundations of a new great building!

We actually don't/can't see the complete work of art...
but we must be blind and fool if we think that it'll never really been completed!

That's all!

colkai
04-30-2004, 04:22 AM
I don't know what you mean :confused:
Ok, It's Friday, I'm tired and maybe, (I think anyway), English is not your native first/language. But I certainly like the anology.

Or summat like that, ..uh-oh, I'm rambling..need more caffine...or a break...
Ok, I've officially lost it .. I'll get me coat. ;)

EDIT: Proton - just notice, in the Help pages, some of the text is from the 7.5 version. When I was looking at the MD Controller, it referred to the scene tab, which of course isn't actually in LW8. I'd bet there are a few anomalies like this.

Philipp
04-30-2004, 06:52 AM
A positive statement.

Well, I haven' t received my 8 yet, but I own and have worked alot with Cinema and even bought all the latest updates, but I didn't use it since I got LW 7.5. Sure Cinema is more modern (it's been a rewrite with Cinema 6) so it's naturally that's is more modern, but still, I feel more at home with LW. I prefer my images done with LW and so my customers. It's this old and slow renderer which I really love. Now I have FPrime and I am glad it has the same render results, only faster. I wish I could use the shaders though...

It's funny that Policarop now starts switching to Cinema, it's great we have so many choices.

I'm in the making of doing my first 3d short movie, doing architecture all the time let's me miss something, and I am slowly getting up to the point where I could use the new features of LW8. And I am sure I will embarasse the 8.x features as I proceed.
Hhhmm what I wanted to say, is that I can't imagine me doing this movie (~8 min) with max or cinema, modelling and rendering with LW gives me inspiration and mental freedom, and its community, even if too many people think too negative for the moment IMO, helped me alot and I will surely be asking many questions as I proceed.

And to finish, I am sure that NT knows what to do and I am very positiv that the new developers will do a great job. I'm eagerly awaiting my LW8 and every point releases. And I am sure that LW9 won't be comparable to <LW7.5 anymore. Just give them the time they need to do it. Simply trust them.


my small 2 cents...


best regards

philipp

lwaddict
04-30-2004, 06:59 AM
Proton,

We've already got a literal "ton" of fx shots prepared with the new Lightwave 8 release and would be more than happy to shoot you some "sneak peeks" as we move forward.

We'll be using a lot of hair for our creatures and just got kinda scared when we saw the clips for "Ghost Warrior"...if this guy wrote a book, produced a "how to" video, or so much as talks funny in a bar...I'm buying, watching, and listening. Nuf said.

Fausto...LOL...RE: Clue.
I'm sort of hoping it was Fausto in the kitchen with a cleaver.

anieves
04-30-2004, 07:28 AM
Man, some people just never grow up.

On the bright side since it is friday I just wanted to say first impressions are everything and the new installing and registreation process is just great. I know L8 has so many cool features and I pick the registration, well, registration has always been kinda of a hassle but not any longer. Whoever came up with the web based instant permanent key license # deserves a free lunch ;) hell you all deserve a free lunch, just put it on proton's tab, ok?.

I'm still playing with 8 and so far has been great. Kudos!

WilliamVaughan
04-30-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by lwaddict

if this guy wrote a book, produced a "how to" video, or so much as talks funny in a bar...I'm buying, watching, and listening. Nuf said.



Be sure to read Albee's free Sas tuts:
http://www.worley.com/tutorials.html

WilliamVaughan
04-30-2004, 07:44 AM
Great to hear that you lik ethe new setup.....NewTek wants to improve on all aspects of it's tools...not just new features....



Originally posted by anieves
Man, some people just never grow up.

On the bright side since it is friday I just wanted to say first impressions are everything and the new installing and registreation process is just great. I know L8 has so many cool features and I pick the registration, well, registration has always been kinda of a hassle but not any longer. Whoever came up with the web based instant permanent key license # deserves a free lunch ;) hell you all deserve a free lunch, just put it on proton's tab, ok?.

I'm still playing with 8 and so far has been great. Kudos!

tudor
04-30-2004, 07:54 AM
Just got 8! :)

Been playing with it for a couple of hours now, and my first impression is that I like it!

A feeling I get is that everything is more streamlined. No more adding a plug to deform, custom shape, and then calculate at another place. Solid, and well thought through.
I like the new menus aswell. They seem more logical.

WilliamVaughan
04-30-2004, 08:06 AM
Great to hear that you got it Tudor

lwaddict
04-30-2004, 08:25 AM
By the way Newtek,

Special thanks for the Exploration Version of the program...
I've got a newbie 3d guy coming onboard with my feature/project and he "was" using Max.

Not anymore.

His order will be coming in just as soon as he can get the last hundred bucks or so.

Kudos again.

P.S.: It didn't take more than an old tut video from version 5.6 and the Exploration version of 8 to sway him in less than two hours. Done deal.

colkai
04-30-2004, 08:30 AM
Way to go LWAddict, keep bringing 'em into the fold! :D

Exper
04-30-2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Exper
LW8 is the foundations of a new great building!

We actually don't/can't see the complete work of art...
but we must be blind and fool if we think that it'll never really been completed!

That's all!Hehe... self quoting. :rolleyes:

That post is now correct and then represent in a right way my own feelings!

colkai
04-30-2004, 09:03 AM
Right - reads better now and yup, I like the anology and agree with your sentiments.
Newtek I think has some interesting times ahead.