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View Full Version : lightwave 8 UI? how's it look??



cresshead
04-22-2004, 03:48 AM
with all the versions of beveled buttons etc we saw and different color schemes during the last year how does lw 8 finally look now it's launched???....and can you still get the classic lw7.5 look from lw 8 somehow IF you don't light the lw8 ui look?

steve g

hazmat777
04-22-2004, 05:01 AM
It depends on if you are wearing a 3-d sweatshirt or the double-sided T-shirt. It's really up to you.

Matt
04-22-2004, 05:14 AM
from what I can tell it looks exactly the same as the last screenshots we saw.

I dunno whether you can revert back to 7.5 look, but I'll put money on it you can't.

you'll be able to change the colours as you could in 7.5 though.

mattclary
04-22-2004, 06:20 AM
I haven't had much time to play with it, but from what I saw, I was very pleased. The interface has a "crisper" feel to it than 7.x (and 6.x, for that matter). May just be me...

The menus seem to be a little sparser, haven't yet figured out where they've hidden everything. I like the "Utilities" tab with stuff on it like add or edit plugins.

cresshead
04-22-2004, 06:30 AM
if you have time can you post a screen grab from modeler and layout?

stee+cats

mattclary
04-22-2004, 06:38 AM
Will do, when I get home tonight, in about 9.5 hours. :)

cresshead
04-22-2004, 06:41 AM
cheers!
...if you could unplug your dongle and try booting lightwave 8 to see if it has a demo mode as well that would be greatas well!
thanks in advance!

steve g;)

paulrus
04-22-2004, 07:43 AM
Matt's right, it looks exactly like the demo videos. Unfortunately nobody seems to be paying attention to Matt's work at NewTek. It's strictly function over form. And AFAIK, you can't easily skin the interface.

The new help system, however, is very pretty. I'm guessing that's Macromedia's doing and not NewTek's.

Chuck, please talk to Matt about consulting NewTek on 8.5's interface. His project makes a LOT of sense.

Jockomo
04-22-2004, 11:48 AM
I agree! Hire Matt!

policarpo
04-22-2004, 04:50 PM
modeler screen shot...

it looks the same as what we saw a while ago. and yes, it runs in DE mode without the dongle.

:D

hairy_llama
04-22-2004, 05:11 PM
Why does newtek not have a demo of lw8 for those of us who have not got/have not bought the 8 upgrade??
:mad:

ddho1981
04-22-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by hairy_llama
Why does newtek not have a demo of lw8 for those of us who have not got/have not bought the 8 upgrade??
:mad:

probably because it's not officially released yet.

cresshead
04-22-2004, 06:29 PM
so lw 8 DE mode is the same 400 point limit in modeler, no saves in layout [the main advance in lw8] and same check pattern render watrer mark?

same as lw7.5 or any difference???

maybe it will turn up tomorrow so i can find out!

stee+cats

mattclary
04-22-2004, 06:55 PM
Discovered my menus looked "sparse" because it wasn't picking up all the plugins. Scanned my plugins directory and now have more menu items. :o

nuclearchutney
04-22-2004, 07:12 PM
Hey Matt and Policarpo, I see two other modes on the bottom right hand corner of the Modeler window, next to W (Weight), T (Texture) and M (Morph) labelled C and S

what are those?

riki
04-22-2004, 07:47 PM
Where's Volume selection mode?

multipasser
04-22-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by riki
Where's Volume selection mode?

Gone!! who needs it anyways :) It now lets you cycle faster between points/poly's.

Policarpo: Are there ANY optimalisations/more options concerning SHADING/RENDERING/RADIOSITY? or is it all the same as 7.5c??

if so: NEWTEK wake up, your renderer is aging so rapidly :(
my request for 8.5 is GI/Caustics send/receive for every object/surface. That would be a big step already. Ooh yeah and if you can make it render 50%, go ahead :)

Brett H.
04-22-2004, 08:19 PM
I have to say I'm really surprised they stuck with this GUI unchanged from what we very first saw. All the talk of "this is just preliminary" and "don't assume this is final" were just that, talk.

Godawful ugly if you ask me. Looks like a visual basic shareware app now. I thought they consulted with Matt?

Brett

luka
04-22-2004, 08:24 PM
So is it a native OSX app then?
Have they updated the finder icons for models and scene files and do you still have to put extensions on stuff you save and export?

nemac4
04-22-2004, 10:58 PM
....no volume selection? I'll miss it ,.. but I guess I can live without it.

riki
04-22-2004, 11:07 PM
Have they moved Volume Select to another place?

Karmacop
04-22-2004, 11:29 PM
C (colour) S (selection)

riki
04-22-2004, 11:36 PM
Please speak english :confused:

gjjackson
04-22-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by hairy_llama
Why does newtek not have a demo of lw8 for those of us who have not got/have not bought the 8 upgrade??
:mad:

If I recall, back in December, they had said they'd have a demo version available for download. They probably didn't want to put it up yet until all the orders are filled because all of us would be downloading it to try it out, thus overwhelming their servers. I would like to see a demo without the limits as some others are.

It seems I read somewhere that the Volume was still there but not on the bottom. You could always add it back there if you wanted.

ibanezhead
04-23-2004, 12:55 AM
I have to say I'm really surprised they stuck with this GUI unchanged from what we very first saw. All the talk of "this is just preliminary" and "don't assume this is final" were just that, talk.

I agree. This interface is bad, it has no style to it at all. They took a step backwards...

Software companies ought to learn that if they update the GUI to something up to date looking they would sell more upgrades. The visuals are a big part in inticing people...

Vic

archiea
04-23-2004, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by ibanezhead
I agree. This interface is bad, it has no style to it at all. They took a step backwards...

Software companies ought to learn that if they update the GUI to something up to date looking they would sell more upgrades. The visuals are a big part in inticing people...

Vic

Funny that you say that.... it was a marketing decision to change the interface FROM 7.5. It was supposed to say "new LW". Instead it says "old".

At least mirage/Aura had the excuse that they remain legacy in terms of their interface...they haven't changed... NT made all this effort to change, only to make it look like circa 1997.

bleech....

I promise you, though, once you start USING LW, it won't bother you as much... At least its LACK of aesthetics no longer interferes w/ its funtion, i.e cluttered buttons w/ hard bevels and outlines, as the early versions did....

OK, here I start again, but I swear.... Remove even just the dark outlines around the buttons, and viola... You kick that vintage look. Just...just.... loose it.... the black outlines.. I promise you. the LW users will not ge lost.... we will find the buttons....

hazmat777
04-23-2004, 03:33 AM
I don't really care how the interface looks, as long as the sub-menus are well organized. If I can change the color scheme, great. Just don't go for the icons NT! I hate icon based tool sets.

mattclary
04-23-2004, 10:03 AM
Sorry, I disagree, I like the new interface. I have 7.5 and 8 open and can toggle back and forth and I just like 8's better.

felix_man
04-23-2004, 10:47 AM
If it's not broken don't fix it! They can leave it just like this forever, as long as the core program keeps getting better.

Proj
04-23-2004, 10:50 AM
:) i like the look of the new interface. it needed a tidy up.

Glad they got rid of volume select i never used it anyway( by the way nemac4 , i read that ctrl+j brings it back,hit once for exclude ,twice for include)

:(Not happy about cut copy paste undo redo missing though they were the only buttons i dont use keyboard shortcuts for!!. does anybody know if i can will be able to configure these back?...

im still waiting for LW8

anieves
04-23-2004, 11:26 AM
yes you can put those buttons back where they used to be as well as the Volume selection mode.

Emmanuel
04-23-2004, 12:42 PM
The "best" thing is that even after this was requested when L6 appeared, You *still*, in 2004, can NOT configure the colours
from within LW but need to use *Notepad*.
I wouldn't even call this a *feature*, its just a basic thing that needs to be there and gets constantly ignored by NewTek.

cresshead
04-23-2004, 01:21 PM
yeah in comparison max 3 introduced easy to create custom UI changes these were then further enhanced in max 4 with a load of presets based around the combustion/flame color schemes as well.

as you can see 3DSMAX 3.0 had the ability for a text based UI back in 1999/2000 as a loadable option.

i think newtek will get round to such things now that they have their new version out n about in lw 8.0

see attatched screen grabs from me olde worldy max 3.1!!!

art
04-23-2004, 01:34 PM
For those of you who are using windows XP and its new color scheme, there is a way to save a tiny bit of space. Some of you probably already know this. Did you notice how big and ugly those default window buttons in top right corner are? They look like they have been designed for kids or those of poor sight. It's all good, but typical user might prefer something smaller. Personally, I turn the "enhancements" off altogether, but if you like the new style, here is how you can get more space and better (IMO) look:
In display properties go to appearance, click on advanced. In the preview, click on a sample window header to indicate what you want to change OR pick "active title bar" from item drop down. Its the same thing. The default font is set to trebuchet 25. I like to keep it on Arial 18. Try it. I hope you'll like it.

Red_Oddity
04-23-2004, 02:11 PM
Change that into, "They look like they have been designed by kids or those of poor sight"

MS keeps amazing me, over and over...Come work at MS, high salaries, and oh, the LSD is free...

HowardM
04-23-2004, 02:29 PM
http://www.3dink.com/lw8screen.jpg

This scheme is REALLY soothing!
I know at first, its different..but let it sink in...
LW is now skintone sexy!
Its helped me adjust to 8 this past week!

Thanks to Tess for the great colors!

gjjackson
04-23-2004, 04:26 PM
Is that C4 part of LW8. I already have that. It sure is looking like I already have LW8, apart from the updated core.

GeorgeDittmar
04-23-2004, 04:48 PM
i really dont like the gui. i wish you could toggle to keep the 7.5 look

gjjackson
04-23-2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by GeorgeDittmar
i really dont like the gui. i wish you could toggle to keep the 7.5 look

Myself I was most fond of the Blender interface. Probably since that's the first 3D package I had used.

GeorgeDittmar
04-23-2004, 07:34 PM
well lw 7.5 is my first real "pro" 3d app and i just love the current gui and i really want 8 but i dont wanna loose the nice gui that is 7.5 hehe

sire
04-23-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by gjjackson
Myself I was most fond of the Blender interface. Probably since that's the first 3D package I had used.
Oh, but you can't generalize that. The first serious 3D app I used back in Amiga days was not really that beautiful: one of the first versions of Reflections, with colours which would be absolutely impossible nowadays. The first version of LW I used (3.5) also didn't get my instant love GUI-wise. But the look since 6.0, especially with the tiny improvements until 7.5, I still like the best of all LW looks. Sorry, but 8 is like back to 5.6.

xeno3d
04-24-2004, 08:37 AM
finally.. no more gradient buttons and brushed metal panels.. I love the new ui for 8. :D

anieves
04-24-2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Red_Oddity
Change that into, "They look like they have been designed by kids or those of poor sight"

MS keeps amazing me, over and over...Come work at MS, high salaries, and oh, the LSD is free...

I think that they keep trying to mimic Apple to some degree and they never succeed. I wish they just stop trying to copy OSX and start designing for regular users other than blue hairs.:p

Fasty
04-26-2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by GeorgeDittmar
i really dont like the gui. i wish you could toggle to keep the 7.5 look

I agree completely. The new (or should I say "old") GUI is such a backwards step, and with no option to change it it's really put any hesitations I had about not upgrading to rest.

jamesl
04-26-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by GeorgeDittmar
i really dont like the gui. i wish you could toggle to keep the 7.5 look

I agree... I've been waiting around forever for the return to the true 'LW" interface...

lsddigital
04-26-2004, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by jamesl
I agree... I've been waiting around forever for the return to the true 'LW" interface...

really nice, some day i want have that interface again in lightwave :D... is a joke!.. but in LW8 you can change interface colors, I guess, and I hope!

I think LW8 looks like more LW6, that is true.. but it isnīt more ugly that LW 7.. is just different!
Must be a option to change to LW7 and LW8 interface.. that will be intersting.
But newtek canīt make everybody happy!

Chazz
04-26-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by anieves
I think that they keep trying to mimic Apple to some degree and they never succeed. I wish they just stop trying to copy OSX and start designing for regular users other than blue hairs.:p
I think that if they are going to do that, they should take a look at the Final Cut Pro and Motion interfaces... they could do worse.

Matt
04-26-2004, 10:30 AM
I'm really liking the Motion / DVD Studio Pro interfaces by Apple, very pro looking without being over the top.

wacom
04-26-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by nemac4
....no volume selection? I'll miss it ,.. but I guess I can live without it.

Is there a volume select plugin that will let you use a enlosed user defined shape? Something where you make a shape (say a sphere or "blob") and put it in a background layer to select what is enlosed in the forground layer by that shape?

Tim Parsons
04-26-2004, 05:34 PM
Hey guys, while I must admit the 7.5 is esthetically more pleasing to the eye, LW 8 is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I've been using it for several days now and it is perfectly fine. To me the only thing that really bothers me are the radio checkmark buttons. They don't line up and look kind of messy. Also the move view and zoom widgets are too far up. For me the biggest thing was re-mapping all the short cut keys to what I was accustomed to. I also split out the Mode drop down selections and added an Edit drop down and Undo/Redo buttons at the bottom. I can remember when the first screenshots of 6 surfaced on the internet, everyone, myself included, thought it was totally unusable. I think NT remembered the outcry, and are having a little fun with us now. Once you get to using it you won't even think about it anymore, and isn't that what a good interface is supposed to do? Hey they could have added icons all over the place!

Try it, you'll like it.

Tim

Jeff_G
04-26-2004, 06:20 PM
I agree, that does look really sloppy. But I don't have any ideas to make it better. :)

animotion
04-26-2004, 06:54 PM
If you mean the gadgets are not centered I do see your point.

Still waiting.

Animotion :)

Karmacop
04-26-2004, 08:26 PM
The way to make it neat it to make all the buttons (or the text eareas really) the same length .. so that both the left and right sides line up, instead of just their left sides. This is just sloppy UI design ..

Chazz
04-26-2004, 09:35 PM
There's no reason to surround the text labels with a border...they're not buttons.

A good UI design might allow the user to select check the box by clicking on the text description, but there's no need to wrap the label in a border. It just looks messy.

HowardM
04-26-2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Chazz
There's no reason to surround the text labels with a border...they're not buttons.

A good UI design might allow the user to select check the box by clicking on the text description, but there's no need to wrap the label in a border. It just looks messy.

yep, I hate the new lines in 8...love the new layout of tabs/buttons, but really wish they would reconsider all the extra lines that hurt the eyes...including the bevels...

GeorgeDittmar
04-26-2004, 11:02 PM
is there a way to mod the ui back to the old one hehe

KiDCoDEa
04-27-2004, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by archiea
Funny that you say that.... it was a marketing decision to change the interface FROM 7.5. It was supposed to say "new LW". Instead it says "old".

At least mirage/Aura had the excuse that they remain legacy in terms of their interface...they haven't changed... NT made all this effort to change, only to make it look like circa 1997.

bleech....

I promise you, though, once you start USING LW, it won't bother you as much... At least its LACK of aesthetics no longer interferes w/ its funtion, i.e cluttered buttons w/ hard bevels and outlines, as the early versions did....

OK, here I start again, but I swear.... Remove even just the dark outlines around the buttons, and viola... You kick that vintage look. Just...just.... loose it.... the black outlines.. I promise you. the LW users will not ge lost.... we will find the buttons....

AMEN! its so easy when u know how...:rolleyes:

Matt
04-27-2004, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by Chazz
There's no reason to surround the text labels with a border...they're not buttons.

Hear hear! Exactly! They are boolean gadgets, they should look different from regular button gadgets because they have a different function.

Plus it looks far too crowded as you've noticed.

Hopefully 8.x will tidy up these niggles.

jamesl
04-27-2004, 03:29 AM
Eh, I don't care. Spend time on improving the pipeline and adding/enhancing features, and you can let a 3 year old design your interface, for all I care. Man you should see the crappy GUIs designed for most proprietary studio software, if you're lucky enough to get a GUI. Just my perspective.

j

Matt
04-27-2004, 04:32 AM
my perspective . . . we have to have a GUI, why not make it work and look good?!?!?

Matt
04-27-2004, 07:18 AM
Not that I want to drag the whole UI debate up again (honestly, I really don't) but this is my point, you have to draw a button on screen at a certain size, shape and colour.

How much extra work is involved in making those numbers that define the size, shape and colour create a button that is pleasing to the eye?

Here's an example, not exactly the pinnacle of UI design I know, but it's just to illustrate the point, these are the same UI, same buttons, same style yet one looks cluttered and the other (IMO) doesn't!

It's about sensitivity, subtley to grouping, spaces, harmony, the soft 'fluffy' stuff that most people think doesn't matter.

Well, in a commercial environment where the customer is more design aware than ever, the soft fluffy stuff DOES matter!

VEBO
04-27-2004, 09:19 AM
Good point and well did, Matt!

VEB:rolleyes:

robinson
04-27-2004, 09:29 AM
ditto matt, maybe in 8.0b.:p

samartin
04-27-2004, 10:16 AM
I think LW8 certainly captured the amateur/hurt your eyes look regarding GUI design...

NT need to listen on this account...

paulrus
04-27-2004, 10:49 AM
Perhaps someone should create a poll on whether or not NT needs to bring Matt on board to work on an 8.x interface revision? What's the difference between integrating DI powertools versus integrating Matt's design concepts?

Look at the Light Properties interface on v8.0 - my eyes always have trouble spotting the Current Light dropdown because it's a different type of dropdown from the Intensity Falloff and the Light Type drop downs. It may be a simple thing, but it wastes my time.

The organization of 8 is really nice. The design is not.

Matt
04-27-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by paulrus
What's the difference between integrating DI powertools versus integrating Matt's design concepts?

He's talented, I'm not! But thanks for the comparison anyway! :)

Karmacop
04-27-2004, 11:08 AM
Sorry Matt, I stole your image ;)

Anyway, just lining up the borders around the text would make it look neater, but I agree, why are they even there? :confused:

Karmacop
04-27-2004, 11:10 AM
Also, I just noticed single is in solid white. Is this a drop down? It looks like a button. Very confusing :\

Matt
04-27-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
Also, I just noticed single is in solid white. Is this a drop down? It looks like a button. Very confusing :\

I think it's meant to be a drop down (I don't have LW8 so I can't check) it was an 'item choice' gadget before but I assume they changed it to a popup because it allowed them to elaborate on the names more (rather than TL, TR, BL, BR) which is a good thing.

Only problem is that it now looks nothing like a popup gadget!!! Which is why I changed it back in the above example.

Yes Karacop, you could align the gadgets like that too, although like you I prefer the boolean gadgets without the borders around them, which I can only assume are there to highlight the fact that you can click the name to toggle the gadget, although I find that un-necessary as it's pretty standard convention that boolean gadgets work this way.

They are just too many 'edges' which I find distracting.

Matt

Karmacop
04-27-2004, 12:25 PM
I totally agree with you Matt. Too many edges in the interface and not enough in modeler ;)

Tim Parsons
04-27-2004, 01:42 PM
The viewport button changes depending on what viewports you have open at the time you open the display options, just like in 7.5.

Matt
04-28-2004, 03:18 AM
You know, I never noticed that! :)

Matt
04-28-2004, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
I totally agree with you Matt. Too many edges in the interface and not enough in modeler ;)

LOL! I knew someone would say that! :)

Exper
04-28-2004, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
Too many edges in the interface and not enough in modeler ;) Yep...
I was waiting for it too! :D