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View Full Version : Please post your thoughts on V8



slatr
04-20-2004, 04:13 PM
I am interested in upgrading to Lightwave 8 from 7, but would like some more information from you guys.

My 2 main questions?

How much faster/streamlined is it to do character setup and animation?

How stable is it?

Thanks,

Slatr

durden
04-20-2004, 05:12 PM
Most people have not had a chance to use it yet because it just started shipping in limited quantities yesterday..but you should look over the lightwave 8 feature list it is very extensive I have seen all the videos twice...from that alone you will see that the charachter animation toolset is hugely improved, this time around it was, I believe, one of the main toolsets that they were interested in improving..sorry I can't tell you more


http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/product/8/index.php

slatr
04-20-2004, 06:54 PM
Thanks for the link. I thought it might be too early to ask about V8.

I was getting excited but wanted to get some user opinions before I took the "plunge."

SplineGod
04-21-2004, 01:12 AM
I think the character tools are nice. A big improvement over 7.5.
I like being able to completely rig in layout and no jumping back into modeler. The update/playback speed feels about the same but I never considered that a problem. Rigging is a whole lot faster for me then before. :)

tOd
04-21-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
The update/playback speed feels about the same but I never considered that a problem.

LOL Well if you use to slow feedback then maybe its not problem for you. We cant say the same and its what we are used to unfortunatley with LW.

:rolleyes:

We have been a LW house for years and we just got done doing a character spot for Seseme Street and we should have been able to get things done faster. You are setting your poses and you should be able to just scrub and get SOMEWHAT of an idea of timing but not with LW's Open GL. One of biggiest slow downs was and still is LW's feedback. With tight deadlines and small budgets this can be a big problem. Sorry to hear NT hasnt adressed this yet.

SplineGod
04-21-2004, 05:03 PM
Sorry to hear that. Ive used LW in some extremely character heavy shows and under very tight deadlines. Im very familar with small budgets and tight deadlines. Ive always found simply ways around those issues and was able to create a pretty good pipeline. Getting around the slow feedback issue wasnt that hard to do. :)

tOd
04-21-2004, 05:07 PM
There is no way to "pipeline" around having to make previews just to see if your in the ballpark. We had the characters in empty scenes and display at 0. The chracters are cartoony so nowhere near heavy. Still get crappy feedback and we have fast machines. Larry I know your background. We have been around and doing this just as long as you. We arent newbs. We have a great pipeline but there is a bottleneck in production with LW's feedback comparitively. I know your big on LW and NT just dont act like feedback isnt a big deal when MANY, us included have asked for improvemens in that area for a REASON. Becasue it's SLOWWWWWW.

SplineGod
04-21-2004, 06:34 PM
Sorry TOd,
I was implying that you guys dont know what youre doing. Im just coming at this from my own experience and I realize everyones milage may vary. :)
Believe me Im not defending it. Without a doubt it could be faster.
Every app Ive seen slows down at some point where you have to work around it somehow. Lightwave tends to hit this wall a bit faster then others and bit slower then some. :)
The reality for me at least is that the feedback in opengl is slower then I would like it to be. There are relatively simply ways to get around that so I make that part of my pipeline. Its also a problem in other apps and they find ways around it as well.
So far the rest of LW has made up for particular deficiencies (such as this one) where I can still get things done pretty fast. Maybe this will be fixed soon and maybe not. If or when this or any other issue in LW really begins to hinder me getting things done I will start looking at or using other options.

Taliska
04-22-2004, 01:38 AM
Hey guys...y'know, just on a side note, you should probably make a distinction between LW's OpenGL usage, and feedback/update time. I'm sure that their OpenGL usage isn't optimal, but in a typical single viewport layout session, I would imagine it is hard for them to get too much wrong. I think that the thing that is slow is the ik/software skinning/morphing/motion plug-in eval/scene dependency evaluation. I guess you could probably get a hacked graphics driver to effectively make the OpenGL calls no-ops and see if the responsiveness of layout increases (and by how much...).

Take it easy...

Alex Attwater
04-22-2004, 07:20 PM
sorry guys but gotta get some input anyone seen this problem or can explain this upgrad to 8 issue to me?
its wordy so if your not patient skip this post now

-----Original Message-----
From: employee[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:30 PM
To: incognito
The serial number you provide is a Video Toaster serial number. Do you own a stand alone copy of LightWave? If so, I need the serial number for that in order to complete your order process. The LightWave upgrade special are for customers who own a stand alone copy of LW. If you do not own a stand alone version of LW, you can upgrade from the video toaster for $995. What you would get would be a full version of LW software, a USB dongle, DFX software, and a free version of LW8 when it is available.
THIS DIRECTLY FROM VT(3)PAGES TO PROVE POINT
LightWave 3D is NewTek’s industry-standard 3D modeling, surfacing and animation software. NewTek wants to remove all limites to creativity, and so is now including the full version of LightWave 3D 7.5 with every VT[3]. All over the world, professionals have come to rely on the power, speed and flexibility of LightWave 3D for numerous applications:

Sarah,(please read all of this)

All right, as you can judge from the copied piece directly from the Newtek website, I am quite disheveled. So what you’re telling me is that a “stand alone version” of lightwave is different than a “full version” of lightwave 3d 7.5? And subsequently this limits by ability to purchase an upgrade or promotional buy in package? So now after spending , not to mention just weeks ago, several thousands of dollars through a Newtek Authorized reseller that now I am NOT entitled to a discount on something advertised for something I already have? I do believe I am a registered lightwave owner am I not? According to the statements above and below, both from Newtek.com I am. I am a man trying to get back into his art out of his basement I can’t afford to have $500 bills double on me overnight Sarah. I am NOT attempting to be rude or complain and I sincerely apologize, for being so lengthy, I just don’t understand?!? I truly hope you can point out the fine writing here. I cannot afford $1000! Since January 1st , I have spent $7000 on a $20000 a year salary and this $500 was the last of it! So can you please explain to me exactly how my transactions relating to Lightwave, VT3, and Newtek will be affected in the future considering I have bought an integrated production suite instead of “stand alone” versions? Lightwave 3D is a large part of my production future and I am actually heartbroken ,yes heartbroken, knowing now that I can’t get lightwave 8 with all its beautiful soft and hardbodyfx . And now that the price for me, a registered integrated production suite owner, is as high as any unregistered software upgrade I am beside myself with despair………PLEASE SARAH if I have to cancel this transaction Order # (you get the idea)because the price is now $1000 instead of the $500….PLEASE explain to me why or copy the page of legal mumbo jumbo that I have to read in order to under stand what is going on here…… speaking of legal mumbo? Maybe you could tell me or ask someone to tell me why I was not informed of these complications. I don’t believe after further review that ANY of my literature and or hardware says that my version is ANY different then a “stand alone” version of Lightwave 3D 7.5! Is it? Because then ensue advertising it, in a package which costs thousands of dollars, as a “full version” is a bit more than a typo is it not?????? Again I apologize if my context seems abrasive I DO NOT wish to seem confrontational; I just wish to understand FULLY what this is all about. So Please for the sake of Alex Attwater Articulations and me, incognito for post, a devoted and loving newtek customer, evaluate my points. Before buying I researched all of this: the full version, the upgrade, the dfx+, the loan, the credit card to order the upgrade, the equipment to run such strenuous applications, and the devotion and hard work it would take to make everything come together. Never in all that research did I foresee the problem we now discuss, and I do see that as some major oversights on the websites layout. Included, below all this babbling, is more emails from newtek in hopes that this may all be cleared up. Honestly I foresee this as possibly one of the first times this issue has been brought up that a “full version” is really not such a “full version” considering the facts. I really hope that we together can set a precedent by having this issue changed, either in that I (as well as future customers with my issue) can be rewarded this wonderful upgrade opportunity, or the facts displayed on the website are dramatically changed in hopes to avoid future incidents leading to the crushing of hopes and the derailing of dreams. By the way which are now in 3D. hahaha



Thank you for your time,

incognito


:confused:

mrunion
04-22-2004, 07:52 PM
Alex:

Check out this thread, third post down:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16965&highlight=vt3+and+lw8+aND+UPGRADE

It talks about VT3 upgrading options not being available until AFTER LW8 ships.

Also, same comment here:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16966&highlight=vt3+and+lw8+aND+UPGRADE

Finally, fourth post down:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5848&highlight=vt3+and+lw8+aND+UPGRADE

Alex Attwater
04-22-2004, 08:12 PM
As to not deminsh the translation of knowledge i humbely bow before your wisdom oh kind sir and thank you for your insight.

BUT I MEAN COME ON I WANNA GET ONTOP OF A COPCAR AND SMASH THE WINDOWS OUT. so i spend all this money for a "full version" and ensue get a knock off???

im no master of law but when you "advertise" a full version on your website and then say oh by the way thats not a full version you don't get the benefits of the full version and you have to pay the same rates as an unregistered user even though we just stated to you in a one to one email you are a registered user of our produts, deep breath, doesn't that make it borderline lieying

i know i shouldn't be complaing cause lightwave was free but it wasn't I PAID FOR VT3 and to restate my point one last time case anyone but me and mrunion(once again thanx) read this,

it says with vt3 you get a "full version" of lightwave 3d 7.5
and yes i was counting on using "both" vt3 and lw to their "fullest" now tell me

doesn't any one else see this as even slightly not cool

argh:mad:

Norman
04-22-2004, 09:42 PM
No! :)

pauland
04-23-2004, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Alex Attwater
i know i shouldn't be complaing cause lightwave was free but it wasn't I PAID FOR VT3 and to restate my point one last time case anyone but me and mrunion(once again thanx) read this,

it says with vt3 you get a "full version" of lightwave 3d 7.5
and yes i was counting on using "both" vt3 and lw to their "fullest" now tell me

doesn't any one else see this as even slightly not cool

argh:mad:

You received a full version of the software with the VT3. What you are really at issue with is not the software, but Newteks upgrade policy. You have a VT3 bundle which includes LW, but Newtek has different upgrade policies for LW depending on how it was supplied.

That's just the way it is.

Paul

slatr
04-24-2004, 05:36 AM
If you have an issue with the way Newtek handles upgrades then you should have started a thread in Customer Service.

Hurben
04-24-2004, 11:28 PM
erm .. ok..

So? Anyone's thoughts on Lightwave 8?

kirkmorger
04-26-2004, 02:17 PM
LW[8] is great! I finally had a chance to really put it thru paces (class project for my youngest daughter). YMMV, but it loads up faster, has much improved UI responsiveness, and is (for me) the most stable thing since 5.6. (I think I got spoiled by how stable 5.6 was).

Additionally, the UI is much more readable now, very easy on the eyes, and has a look that's a lot closer to DFX and Combustion. Very profesional.

LW[8] exceed all my expectations.

WizCraker
04-26-2004, 02:53 PM
hmmmm.... I don't have it yet.

acocq
04-26-2004, 03:01 PM
Ok, I can't bite my tongue any longer ....

WHERE'S THE BEEF (aka my LW8 upgrade).

Hearing the good news about LW8 is gr8, but since I pre-ordered last summer, I am getting a bit jittery, when I hear about YOU people getting your copies ... no offense to any of you, I am happy for you ... it's just that I'd be even happier for myself ;)

Any day now, yes .... any day now .... :confused:
(this incantation has worked for 9 months ... it'll work for another 4 weeks ... I'm sure)

Just a tad upset,
Andreas

ACLOBO
04-29-2004, 02:07 PM
Ok, here are my thoughts on [8]........

"where is it?"

Still no upgrade for me in Aurora, Co. It is Thursday the 29th. Chuck said something about the fulfillment house having finished packaging them and was mailing the majority out beginning this week. Since I have not seen too many people say they have it, I will assume that Newtek does have my infor correct and wait to call them until Monday - if no show tomorrow (friday) or on Monday.

*Fingers crossed*

-Adrian