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animotion
04-07-2004, 11:19 AM
Just curious how has the wait for the release of LW8 affected all of you? Has it had any effect, have you lost business, have you lost your job completely, or has it had no effect at all or do you really even care?

This may help NT in the future, who knows, lets see what you think.

Animotion

:confused:

robewil
04-07-2004, 11:27 AM
Anybody silly enough to allow their livelihood to depend on if and when a software upgrade becomes available deserves what they get.

kcole
04-07-2004, 11:27 AM
I've spent more time in this forum! :)

Jockomo
04-07-2004, 11:41 AM
I have an animation that I would like to revisit when L8 comes out. Specifically the helicopter crash (http://www.3danimationonline.com/helicrashSFX.mpg) animation that you may have seen.
I am looking forward to doing it with L8's new ridgid body dynamics. I built it with L8 in mind and have the helicopter seperated into about 50 different pieces. I really don't want to even try to animate all of that by hand. Sure I could do it, and had I known that L8 would be this late, I probably would have by now. But there is no way hand animating 50 pieces is going to look as good as hard body dynamics, at least not with my hands.

I am also waiting for L8 to come out before I continue to work on learning to rig characters.

newagetitan
04-07-2004, 11:53 AM
I have had the same problem as kcole. ;)

tjacobs
04-07-2004, 12:00 PM
I have waited on buying additional plug-ins (like rigging) until LW8 comes out. Same with training courses -- waiting to learn the new methods for rigging.

But I can afford to wait since I do not make a living with LW8.

phil lawson
04-07-2004, 12:14 PM
I'm just a hobbiest, so the release date doesnt effect me as much as some other guys on the fourm. :)

Cheers.

hairy_llama
04-07-2004, 12:34 PM
I have not been doing any character animation or anything with dynamics because it looks like its going to be a lot differant in lw8.
Actually I have been doing very little personal animation stuff (because of lw8), only paying jobs.

kml12
04-07-2004, 12:46 PM
I'm an environmental Engineer and I use LW on the side for small commercial work, corporate videos, and personal projects. I've wanted to use the "NEW" features since it was first announced. Apart from Fprime I havent purchased any plugs since I ordered LW8 (Waiting).

I would love to hear an official announcement from Newtek and see them stand behind it with regards to a release date.

Oh well, guess we'll all continue to wait and see...

Yog
04-07-2004, 12:46 PM
The wait for 8 has made me more bitter, twisted and cynical :mad:
Oh wait ....... I was all those things before :D

Personal use wise, LW7.5 does everything I need. I do still enjoy using it.

Work wise, well other programs have been taking over from where LW left off for some time. In fact with LW8 concentrating almost solely on animation I don't see the arriveal of LW8 making much difference to my work either.

WizCraker
04-07-2004, 01:28 PM
It has not affected me as I dont have it yet.

Original1
04-07-2004, 01:39 PM
Since Lightwave 7.5 is a very usable peice of software it has not affected me one bit ecept that I now have a wonderful peice of compositing software called DFX+ which works with my video toaster

so the wait for LW 8 has made my more productive since I've learnt to use the tools I've got more effectively rather than skimming over the surface of my new toys.

Anybody seen Tim Albees book and short Kaze Ghost Warrior ?

All done with the above tools, what your excuse? Oh I am waiting for Lightwave 8.

mlinde
04-07-2004, 02:31 PM
Huh. Sounds like most of the people in this thread are responsible for Lee Stranahan leaving the industry!!! (kidding)

So nice to see that some people realize you can still get work done with the shipping version of the software.

NanoGator
04-07-2004, 02:33 PM
I'm $500 poorer.

colkai
04-07-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by WizCraker
I has not affected me as I dont have it yet.

heh heh heh ... I was just thinking that. ;)

The wait for LW8 has taught me one thing though, don't be so damn keen to pre-order.

When I ordered it, last year, I thought the deal for the upgrade and DFX+ was going to end that month. Well, it didn't, in fact, it went on for months... Actually ... isn't is still going on?

So I could have used that money on something else. As it was, I had to sacrifice a couple of things to get the upgrade.
Won't happen again.
IF I get LW9 - it will be once it is released and not before, unless I get a months holiday with Claudia Schiffer thrown in as an enticement. :p (Hey - a man's gotta have dreams ya know?)

theo
04-07-2004, 02:43 PM
My entire life has literally been torn to shreds- I have lost my wife, my dog, my boat, my house, my money, my butt, and all sense of sanity, reality, security, sensibility and emotional care- to the point where I may actually take my life....:o

colkai
04-07-2004, 02:46 PM
It's the Eight Wait Blues folks!
Hey, hand me that blues guitar, I think I feel a song comin' on ;)
Ohh yeah - I'm hurtin' :p

claymation
04-07-2004, 03:11 PM
The wait at first was terrible. Then I started playing with DFX+ and forgot about it. It is an amazing application and every week it seems to get more powerful, or my understanding of it makes it more so.

This is not that long a wait for me:

Lets look at some other notable wait times:
Modo: 2 years
Clay: 3 years
Messiah for Mac 4-5 years
Mirai: 7 years?
Duke Nukem 3D: 10 years?

Now Newtek has been unique in that they have held my money for this long but I a pretty good bunch of software in the mean time.

Someone likend it to paying for a car and getting a bike in teh mean time. I think it is more like buying a new car and getting an old car and a house in the mean time. Yeah you may have one already but if you don't it works nicely with the car when it comes. Beside it is quite functional with either car or none at all. Just because it is free with LW doesn't mean it is cheap.

I had been waiting on doing some projects and even was planning on using all the new rigging tools, but realized that it is rediculous to stake my career on something no one has an idea of when it is coming out.

So I survived and if the NEB conference is the release date then I'll be happy. if not I'll keep learning 7.

prospector
04-07-2004, 03:29 PM
There's FURY in my eyes......
Blood vessels are bulging like Arnold Schwartzinegger Muscles..
Ulsers are now thru stomach wall and beginning on interior skin layer...
I've got more grey hair
I smoke more
I beat on dog
I beat on wife
And if I don't get my sugar intake back up to normal I WILL GO MAD!!!

LW8??? NP

kcole
04-07-2004, 03:35 PM
So that's where my butt went! :D

Dave Davies
04-07-2004, 04:36 PM
Well, I stopped buying plug-ins almost a year ago, as I wait to see what's included in Lightwave 8. I bought before that appeared in the next version of the software, so I'm a bit more cautious now.

Other than that, I'm eager to get my hands on LW8, but it hasn't affected anything I'm working on. There's some projects I'm going to start once I get my head around the new features, but those are just spec jobs - not paying customers.

I can't imagine halting a deadline job while waiting for an upgrade, or submitting a quote that included vaporware features.

It's not like development time is an absolute.

Dave Davies

archiea
04-07-2004, 04:48 PM
LW 8 hasn't been released, so how can it affect you aready?





Originally posted by animotion
Just curious how has the wait for the release of LW8 affected all of you? Has it had any effect, have you lost business, have you lost your job completely, or has it had no effect at all or do you really even care?

This may help NT in the future, who knows, lets see what you think.

Animotion

:confused:

paulhart
04-07-2004, 05:26 PM
I continue to work and learn Lightwave 7.5c, but I do have some projects that I have waited on continued development pending shipment, and yes I ordered 'early'... love the DFX+4 but some things are still in the wait mode (small button, lower left corner under Additional in Modeler :-)..., and those "poor" third party software houses have had to wait for more of my non-existant funds for several plugs-in that I have held off buying, thinking that V8 would adequately take care of some of them, and the others I want to wait until V8 is out so the developers will then provide the updated versions before I purchase.... so yes, some things are on a six month pause, but nothing crucial, just stuff I want to get going on and am tired of waiting. Still excited though!!!

cresshead
04-07-2004, 05:44 PM
how's lw 8 affected me?

it's made me a much more patient person..something that i truly thought i'd never become.

so was/is pretty good for me....and i'm still to load up digital fusion+ yet!!!!

...must be the water around here?

T-Light
04-07-2004, 07:31 PM
How's it affected me?

Like Colkai, I orderd because of the "ends at the end of the month offer". It didn't, it also didn't arrive in the 4th quarter. I had a seriously complicated demo routine in the wings at that time that I could have really used LW8 to add that extra impact.

Don't care, I started visting the forums more often.

This has been a roller coaster, Xmas was amazing, The DStorm announcement had everyone going, and now another 'launch party', just for easter - GREAT.

This all sounds like a sarcastic post doesn't it? It's not, I've really enjoyed this one, I have as many reasons to want LW8 as anyone else. As Cresshead said "it's made me a much more patient person". TRUE :p

Some people seem to feel they have had their fingers burnt here, not true, When Newtek offers LW9, I'll be on the bandwagon.

Anyone for LW9 tickets? Nothing to loose.

Have fun guys, and happy Easter. :)

xeno3d
04-07-2004, 08:05 PM
I'm $495 poorer.. but DFX+ and UV Edit Pro richer.. and soon to be a new version of LightWave richer :)

mgreenway
04-08-2004, 01:13 AM
I've stopped waiting for 8!
Now I waiting for 9.........

Why wait for anything to have a good time?
enjoy today:D

Andrew Sweet
04-08-2004, 03:22 AM
No effect!!!!.......I'm not that sad....and there's plenty of stuff to learn anyhow..but still looking forward to the new CA tool's, etc.

mcewan7
04-08-2004, 04:19 AM
Well, its made me visit this forum everyday since November, and I wouldn't say I was peed off with anything, I'm a patient layed back person anyway. I'm happy to wait, but it has been frustrating not to get any anouncements from Newtek - but nothing I can't live with.

Anyway, I have no right to complain compared to most of you, I only ordered the upgrade last week and got DFX on Monday. So really I've only been waiting 5 days! :)

On second thoughts, I hope I don't have to wait another 5 days, I couldn't cope with it...

blabberlicious
04-08-2004, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by archiea
LW 8 hasn't been released, so how can it affect you aready?


I think you need to bone up on your reading skills...

go to the bottom of the class

Afalk
04-08-2004, 07:56 AM
Like many of you, waiting for LW8 hasn't killed me,
plus I have to agree that DFX+ and UVEdit Pro are
an awesome 1-2 punch of goodness.

I in mid-production on an in-house animated feature
and the new tools in LW8 look to make the entire
process 150% easier, but 7.5 is definately getting
the job done, and really that for me is the most
important thing :D

That said, I am hoping that I see my LW8 VERY VERY soon!

All the best,

Anthony

fronzel
04-08-2004, 08:49 AM
I have also given up on waiting for 8, I'm waiting for 9.

badllarma
04-08-2004, 09:51 AM
1) screwed up a personal project that involves loads of character animation

2) made me visit here more often

3) and of course I'll never preorder sod all from Newtek again :mad:

Exper
04-08-2004, 10:20 AM
Not much to me!

But there's someone who's thinking right now:
"My only mistake is I'm hoping!"...
and it's not a good thought.

Come on NT...
let us know something official (and definitive).

erk
04-08-2004, 05:35 PM
I've never understood the phenomenon of letting out information about upcoming products to the media, trade shows, whatever, way before the product actually ships. Does it really create pent up demand that results in better overall sales?

From my experience in the computer retail industry back in the 80's and early 90's, all I ever saw was a drop off in sales/cash flow as people held off purchase because of rumours of new product. I much prefer short warnings about new product releases, ie. about a month, that gives you enough time to clear stock on hand with a promo.

Worse still a long lead times, from media awareness to shipment, lets the competitors know what features you are planing so they can have time to prepare an appropriate response.

riki
04-08-2004, 06:23 PM
It effects people who recommended the upgrade to their boss and have to explain each day, that they don't know when it's going to be released.

It's effected people people like Lee in the LW Training front, that have experienced a sharp downturn in custommers. Following the logic, who wants to learn LW 7 when you know 8 is just around the corner.

hrgiger
04-08-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by badllarma
1) screwed up a personal project that involves loads of character animation



Is 8 really that much different that you can't work on a prjoect until it gets here? I mean, we don't even know how much faster it is to work with. Rigging will be easier but it's not exactly impossible to rig with Lightwave now. New softbodies and hardbodies but unless you're making a complete animation of a room full of pillows and anvils colliding, there must be many other things you can work on.
I just don't get the argument that the wait for 8 has brought anyone to a standstill or killed a project. I'm not minimizing your inconvenience badllarma, just thinking that we still have functional software.

prospector
04-08-2004, 06:40 PM
all I ever saw was a drop off in sales/cash flow as people held off purchase because of rumours of new product.

And that's a good thing
because there would be much more bi*ching it someone HAD bought plugins or stand alone products that no longer worked with the new version.
It has been my experience with that type of buying, that when a new version comes out to work with another new version (base program), it is counted as a regular upgrade and charged as such, even tho you may have just bought the plugin or program.

So why take the chance?

Vincent Brumbac
04-08-2004, 10:35 PM
LightWave 8 has made me laugh alot.


Cheers,

Vincent D. Brumback

badllarma
04-09-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Is 8 really that much different that you can't work on a prjoect until it gets here? I mean, we don't even know how much faster it is to work with. Rigging will be easier but it's not exactly impossible to rig with Lightwave now. New softbodies and hardbodies but unless you're making a complete animation of a room full of pillows and anvils colliding, there must be many other things you can work on.
I just don't get the argument that the wait for 8 has brought anyone to a standstill or killed a project. I'm not minimizing your inconvenience badllarma, just thinking that we still have functional software.

No it would never bring things to a stand still and the project in question is still on going (the modeling side of things anyway).It just the orginal release date Dec 2003 fell right for a great number of things for me personally with regards to time or free time more importantly as well as other issues.

Rigging is a pain in the arse with 7.5 full stop I have been working with characters in fact I'm working on one later today but from what I have seen life just looks EASYER (read quicker) in 8.

Also the Hard bodies looks useful as I need to destroy a few buildings rather than throw anvils into pillows and 8 looks it will do the job well :)

Hervé
04-09-2004, 12:35 AM
Please NT, tell us.... are we "almost there yet" ?

Siggraph maybe ??:confused:

Nemoid
04-10-2004, 05:45 AM
since i base my work on the tools i have at my disposal. the 8 waiting didn't affect me in anty way.

Instead, I think 8 will affect me with its better workflow and good tools though !! :)

cresshead
04-10-2004, 07:01 AM
before i heard all the details of what would be in lw 8 my personal hopes for the new version of lightwave were that of:


rigging ik
better/simpler rigging....which i can actually do now i lw 7.5 with some scripts and also taught myself how to rig via splingod's training video's so while lw 8 ik will be welcome it's not stopped me from rigging in my current version of lw...


a lipscync plugin
which i now have mimic and it's brilliant!...

render speed improvments
that's been taken care of with my purchase of f prime for most of my needs...

i'm not saying that lightwave 8 isn't going to be a great release but for me most of the hopes i had for lightwave 8 are already filled by plugins, scripts and some training i bought whilst waiting for lw 8.

Phil
04-11-2004, 08:17 AM
*shrug* I didn't pre-order, but the whole debacle has done damage to NT's reputation. I was already considering a change to alternative software ahead of a switch to a linux+OSX production environment, but this hasn't helped.

lasco
04-11-2004, 10:35 AM
I'm tired to wait now, really…

Not waiting for new IK,
Not waiting for dynamics,
Not waiting for 8 anymore anyway,

I just would like that Newtek give me a patch
so that LW 7.5 runs correctly under Mac OS 10.3
which was released in 2003 september…

I hardly admit that NT gave up us with the Open GL
bug for 8 months.

jamesl
04-12-2004, 10:54 AM
LW8 drugged my beer. And as I was falling off the barstool, it kicked me in the groin. Then, it cleaned out my wallet, and ran off with my woman. :mad:

I hate LW8.

j

Wade
04-12-2004, 09:51 PM
4/12/04

Oh but were it to be only 7 days - but I am 3.75 hours from the warehouse where the wares are stored. Waiting may wear you out where-as it has worn you thin. Do not get too weary for time has worn short and you are almost where to can wear you’re new T-shirt in short order. Not sure if one will be in the box or come separately in a small clean bag, or perhaps some Martian blue berries were they not so far from where we are now.

It has driven me mad or perhaps drove me to madness not that I am angry for I am not. It is true the rumors are real for if they were not they would not be.


CAUTIONS DO NOT READ BETWEEN THE LINES, NOR SEEK THE TREASURE FOR I AM NOT A TOAD!!!
:o

DigiLusionist
04-12-2004, 10:18 PM
How it's affected my livelihood:

This past year and a half, I have stopped training people on LW. I have also stopped setting up new LW training programs at some of the local high schools and colleges. The existing ones have started switching over to Maya.

Without reliable and definitive info on the state of LW and its release date for such a long period of time, I couldn't make a case for teaching it to administrators at those schools. Their advisory board members kept pushing Maya as the best tool to teach future animators. I stopped caring about arguing with them.

Because of the number of game companies here in San Diego that use Maya, the school admins here want to go with Maya. So now, that's what I teach on a part-time basis. I lost a lot of business and revenue from being a LW Instructor, which is a huge reason I have been stressed out about the lack of info on LW8. Ah well...

I have also moved onto Maya for my current direct-to-DVD animation project. I didn't want to because of the cost, but Maya does makes the extensive amount of character work I'm doing considerably faster to produce given my schedule and the overall budget.

Currently, I'm tired of waiting on the release of LW8, but I am still looking forward to seeing how it has shaped up.

Hervé
04-12-2004, 11:21 PM
affected my life...?.... well I really dont think it's the case.... now "IF" LW8 "would" affect my life any bad... I'll run from it and become a Vegas Magician....:D

riki
04-12-2004, 11:31 PM
I think it's a bit strange that they haven't made an official announcement regarding the release date. In the beginning it could be seen as a potential marketing stategy, but that impression has since changed and people are starting to wonder if it's indicitive of other problems. Newtek needs to instill a bit of confidence back into he market. Rumours may be false and misguided but impressions count.

Personally I can't help but think, that they're setting themselves up for a potential fall. After waiting all this time in the dark, if the new release comes out with any major bugs, people will be spewing blood.

Of course no release is perfect. But communication here is the key to ensure consumer goodwill and a smooth transition.

Hervé
04-12-2004, 11:49 PM
you're Right Riki, but rumors are the fuel.... do you remember all the lofters programs (where a few people are locked in a space filmed by multi-cams...), well the success of it... at least here in europe came from rumors...:D

Go NT GO

retinajoy
04-13-2004, 06:40 AM
I ordered in October last year I think (so long ago I'm not quite sure). Didn't get on with character animation as I thought LW8 was around the corner. Not that important as visualisation is my work, but I so wanted easy setups for char anim to have some fun. Late LW8 has got me spending more time on forums.

I trust that with this delay, LW8 will be rock solid (just about). I have noticed in some forums that some LW'ers have jumped to Alias. A shame really, as LW8 looks like heading in a good direction, but I suppose they lost patience with the delay and wanted more communication on the release.

I hope Newtek will market Lightwave really well (I'm sure they will as they have to really) and get 8.5 quickly to us with those rendering/lighting improvements along with a decent network rendering thingy.
;)

pixelinfected
04-13-2004, 06:48 AM
we fight a lot with buggy lw75a,b,c
on our last project the lack of debugged release (also screamernet and plugin) blast over 40% of our time of rendering and animation, i hope the early lw8 release with a lot of bug fix.

blabberlicious
04-13-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by riki


Personally I can't help but think, that they're setting themselves up for a potential fall. After waiting all this time in the dark, if the new release comes out with any major bugs, people will be spewing blood.


I think NT have become particularly immune to customers bile - everything they done so far suggestes they view this forum as an irrelevance.

lwaddict
04-13-2004, 07:06 AM
DigiLusionist...
Dude, why don't you start trying to get classes together for Photoshop 11?
Or After Effects 12?
Or any other program before it's release date?

Arguing against the competition's software packages with nothing in hand is just a bad business idea and you've put yourself where you are...don't blame unreleased software.

Lightwave 7.5 still kicks butt if you really know how to use it effectively...and you can easily argue it up against Maya or any other package (although each have their good AND bad points).

No offense bro but your point is futile.
I've giving demonstrations and even taught a few digital artists how to use Lightwave now and they've all dropped their Max and Maya packs for good old LW.

Did I mention this trick was done without Lightwave 8?
When it comes out...(please Newtek, soon?)
it'll be icing on the cake.

Now go out and model, render, or animate something.

DigiLusionist
04-13-2004, 09:18 AM
lwaddict, your post kind of makes my blood boil. You're criticizing me for losing business teaching LW?!

I made my living teaching LW full-time for six years. Now it's my fault no one wants it around here? Wow.

EDIT: And since when are there full-time Photoshop training programs in San Diego one can earn a full-time living teaching? Plus, I'm not a Photoshop expert. So it's comparing apples to oranges. Besides, I don't want to teach Photoshop. If I wanted to do non-3D, I'd be teaching Oracle DBA management or Microsoft suite tools. That's why I now teach Maya part-time and have financed my own 3D animation project.

Wade
04-13-2004, 10:40 AM
It is only a matter of time now!.:confused: :o

pixelinfected
04-13-2004, 04:14 PM
bad args guy,
lw gone bad
lw until version 5.6 is good and stable application, with lw 6 start to be a roulette, every release i must to check and verify what start to work, and what stop....

i use lw from 3.5 amiga, and i work with lw (around the bugs), not thanks to lw.

actually i not change be cause attend lw9 release (yes i 'm realistic, i know that is impossible to solve all problems in lw8/lw8.x release), but in our studio we have bought maya complete 5 license, and test it, if it appair less bugged....

you understand where the pipeline will go.

we are not the first or last...

Signal to Noise
04-13-2004, 10:15 PM
Maybe LightWave [8] should be renamed to

LightWave [Forever]

Those that are into the Duke Nukem scene will know what I mean.;)

lwaddict
04-14-2004, 07:27 AM
Ouch...

I remember Duke Nukem Forever...
at least the advertisements. Never happened.

Let's cross our finger that doesn't happen here.

Digi,

You missed the point of my sarcasm by a long shot. I figured, as a teacher, you'd pick up on it right away.

And I wasn't criticizing you for losing business...
I was criticizing you for your technique in losing it.
Point for point, looking over your complaint list in your previously post, it just looks more like you tried to keep business alive with something you couldn't hold in your hand.

And that's bad business.

Boil away.

Alan Daniels
04-14-2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Signal to Noise
Those that are into the Duke Nukem scene will know what I mean.;)

What, you guys never got your copies of Duke Nukem Forever? I played it all the way through, twice, and Man was it great. In fact, I think I left my old copy in the Delorean, tucked underneath the flux capacitor. :D

P.S. "Forever" was good, but Doom 2010 and Half-Life 5 both had better gameplay.

wizard
04-14-2004, 08:40 AM
Paid for the upgrage way in advance...got the 7.5c upgrade and DFX bundle (for windows...read usless on the Mac) then they come out with a realviz bundle that I COULD have used. Never heard anything about a free UV Edit Pro deal. We want to upgrade to Panther but can't till LW8 gets here.

I work for this countries largest aircraft company.
I too am having a hard time justifying LW in my workplace. I'm the only development team using LW on the Mac. Getting real hard to agrue with the corporate beancounter types. They have been trying to drive out my MAC only department for years in favor of MAX and PC's. This really doesn't help much.

Newtek needs to at least give us more timely announcemnets, if they need more time tell us.. then stick to it. Don't just say SOON.

DigiLusionist
04-14-2004, 08:54 AM
lwaddict, you have no idea what I did or didn't do. You say you've taught several students. Cool. I've taught several hundred. I've taught at six colleges. When things started going South because of a shift in applications, there wasn't much I could do about it except start learning Maya. Which I have. So, again, your uninformed comments are not appreciated. Take your own suggestion and go model and animate, or something.

lwaddict
04-14-2004, 08:55 AM
These are great stories...
however,

again I see a post regarding attempts at justification for a product that hasn't been released. And this is somehow Newtek's fault?

This is what you're saying right?

Otherwise, I feel bad that you're unable to put LW7.5c up against Max. Been there, done that, but I did it. It's difficult to explain to the higher ups but since the real potential of the product is the end-user and not the product...they'll never get it.

But for those of you who keep talking about how you're losing money, clients, and jobs due to LW8 not being released...please, let us know just what you cannot do without it and maybe we as a community can help you.

So far I haven't seen anything LW8 can do that I can't with my current version...just easier in 8 is all.

Think outside of the box.

Lightwave rocks and so does Newtek.

Phil
04-14-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by lwaddict
These are great stories...
however,

again I see a post regarding attempts at justification for a product that hasn't been released. And this is somehow Newtek's fault?


NewTek stated quite clearly that the product would be out in December. That this hasn't happened has impacted people as has been demonstrated. Mostly for those doing teaching - you cannot argue that this isn't the case. You can hardly blame the customers or providers of these courses if NT's announcement and subsequent follow ups have caused a tail off in 'bums on seats'.

Those running projects on 7.5 are also encountering problems. They are unlikely to get fixed in 7.5 because 8.0 is looming. The delay in getting 8.0 is causing a prolonged impact of these issues on users, if one graciously assumes that all such issues have been fixed in 8.0 - there is no public list of what has been fixed after all. That last minute bugs have delayed the release of 8.0 also doesn't inspire confidence that the hitherto unseen beta test of LW has been working properly.

I have many such issues that I have reported ad nauseum (and that have been confirmed) - the primary issue still being that multithreaded rendering is severely broken in most scenarios here (for just one example, take a look at http://ldex.terica.net/lw-multibugs.zip). Multithreaded rendering has been in LW since 5.5/5.6 and it still doesn't work properly. I have no statement to show that this will be fixed in 8.0 either. That's insane and one of the primary reasons that the pre-order was ignored by me. Multi-CPU systems maxxed out with RAM are here to be used, but one CPU sits idle most of the time because the scenes are too big to run multiple LWSN instances. Hopeless.



Think outside of the box.


I am for an upcoming move to a linux/OSX pipeline - to the point of looking at competing products because the Mac version of LW seems to be badly supported by third parties and also seems to be broken by every update to OSX. I don't care whether that's a result of Apple or NewTek - Apple seed builds to developers and NT should be working to ensure that an OS update doesn't impact their customers. NT claim that they are working closely with Apple - I've yet to see evidence of this in the board on this site.



Lightwave rocks and so does Newtek.

Strangely, I also like LW, but I am not going to be eternally patient. I know NT will simply do what they feel needs doing as and when they can, but at the moment, it's not helping me at all. There's next to no *useful* information around amidst all the PR bluster. If I knew what was getting fixed, I'd perhaps be happier, even if a release date was not forthcoming. I don't need the majority of the new features - I needed the bug fixes three months ago.

DigiLusionist
04-14-2004, 11:35 AM
lwaddict, you obviously have no real experience setting up training programs at universities. Programs have to be set up one or two years in advance. Knowledge of the state of an application is considered crucial to the decision-making process.

Industry pros make up an Advisory Board. If those board members push administrators on Maya and I can't make a justifiable case for going with LW, that causes problems for me as a LightWave Instructor.

A person doesn't just roll out of bed and find CG jobs. And university training positions are even harder to find. Not knowing the state of the software one is proficient at is problematic. If you can't see that, then you're either inexperienced or determined to be ignorant.

Whether it be LW8 or LW9 or LW10, not knowing what is going on with LW for long periods of time will always be a problem for educators.

Have any other educators or trainers here experienced anything like this? Or is my situation as unique as lwaddict states?

lwaddict, I'm not even sure what your criticism of my situation is about. I didn't bash NT or say LW sucks. I love the software. I merely responded to the thread with my personal experience of how the lag in communication from NT has affected business.

I have since moved on to teach Maya in order to generate new clients. I am also producing my own commercial project. So, exactly what are you faulting me for? And what do you do that makes you think you can assume a position of superiority over me?

animotion
04-14-2004, 12:51 PM
I think it is clear that there is a big difference between people that make a living creating and animating and people that make most of there pay by training. It should not be that hard to understand that trainers will loose big time while a new version is on the horizon if it takes a long time. No one wants to pay for training on what is percieved to be old software.

As I stated this is why I started the thread, to try to quantify the situation so that NT may have somthing more to go by on the next try at it. I feel bad for people like Lee that have put so much time and effort into this and be forced to let it go. I think most of us have benefited from his work.

Keep up the posts, I am hoping this will make some kind of a difference.

Animotion

;)

colkai
04-14-2004, 01:09 PM
Seems to me that, when all is said and done, educators aren't really interested in LW.
Sure, you get the odd one or two who push it, but just looking at the courses around and its mainly MAX and Maya. Is Lw used in more TV and film work than Max, most probably, but in a college, it's about an acceptable face, and when the you compare the might of the respective marketing machines, Newtek simply doesn't have the power to fight the likes of Discreet et al.

Doesn't make LW a bad product, just not one that is perceived to be 'mainstream' and courses have to bow to that, like it or not.
I'd love a course in LW around my area, but any 3D I see is MAX, no thanks!

If DigiLusionist makes his money from courses, not a lot he can do, alas folks who make the choices don't usually understand that what exists today is as valid as what may be on the horizon, you *should* be learning the trade, not the the new toys. My boss is no different, Mr whistles and bells, there may be huge flaws in the software, but oh look, pretty shiny things, it MUST be good! ;)

Market forces, gotta love 'em - let's face it, it's a lucky person who does what they love for a living, using the tools they prefer. Believe me, after 25+ years on the I.T. merry go-round, that's something I've learned time and time again. Oh..and no, I don't get to do what I love, but the money from my day job means I at least get to play in the same playground! :D

colkai
04-14-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by animotion
No one wants to pay for training on what is percieved to be old software.


Actually, I disagree with that.
If you know MSVC++ or CBuilder, or Java, or PHP, whilst there may be the odd new feature, you should be actually learning the fundementals. I'd be pretty annoyed if I shelled out for a course and they focused on all the new toys without showing the groundwork behind the software.
Lest we forget, alot of Babylon5 was done on an ancient version of LW. Dune was done with out the box LW7.5 - I'd bet you a pound to a pinch of salt, there are still lots of folks who, given LW8 tomorrow, couldn't match either, hell, give 'em XSI! :p There is a false sense of newer features being the only reason to use software which is very perplexing.

animotion
04-14-2004, 02:34 PM
I agree with you colkai. but the key word here is percieved!. All that you say is good in a perfect situation but this is not the case, ask the ones that it actually does affect like Lee and others. you do have a very good point but when your talking about human beings you can pretty much throw logic out the window.

I work with many peaple in states across the US and belive me the public is a strange animal. whats fashionable kicks logic in the A## too many times. LW 7.5c has not stopped me from getting any work but I can see where it may be an issue in some situations.

Animotion

:)

riki
04-14-2004, 07:07 PM
I understand that Lee also went out of business as a LW trainer. His courseware has apparetly been passed onto Larry. The logic behind the dry-up in bums on seats was attributed to this concept: "who wants to do a LW7.5 course when they know 8 is looming".

colkai
04-15-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by animotion
I agree with you colkai. but the key word here is percieved!
...SNIPS..
I work with many peaple in states across the US and believe me the public is a strange animal. whats fashionable kicks logic in the A## too many times.

Ain't it the truth? ;)
Glad you got my point, like you say, perception is a strange thing, I doubt very much that will ever change. It does strike me however that folks are starting to think they can no longer work because they have no new toys.
Funnily enough the one place this doesn't happen is guitars. Most guitarists cling to the old and battered axe no matter what new ones come on the market. Heh, an' I'm one of 'em :D

Like you say, Joe Public - go figure huh? :p

animotion
04-15-2004, 02:38 AM
Hey thats pretty cool colkai, I have been playing guitar for better than 35 years! two of my prise Axes are my vintage Les Paul and Strat.

Animotion

:)

lwaddict
04-15-2004, 09:06 AM
Digi, "lwaddict, you have no idea what I did or didn't do."

I'm just going by what you stated in your first post. I'm sorry if you didn't put enough info in there to get a more efficient reply...but a reply you got.

And I'm inexperienced? LOL.
The software industry in general has been at odds with their own deadlines and statements since the beginning...but you know that right?

Whatever.

Keep on modeling in whatever program you use and whatever system you use, be it Mac or PC. Our (my group's) best to you.

colkai
04-15-2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by animotion
I have been playing guitar for better than 35 years! two of my prise Axes are my vintage Les Paul and Strat.


I've been doing it on and off for around 25+ years myself, my pride and joy are two custom built guitars, by 'Gordy' of Gordon-Smith fame.
I love my destroyer but damn, don't make me choose ;)
Also picked up a very tasty slim-backed Tanglewood electro-acoustic a couple of years ago.
If you looked around my room, you'd think I was loaded, but like I said, most of the gear is at least 20 years old, just kept in full working order and clean. Yeah - I know - a shocker innit? :D

Stranahan
04-17-2004, 10:10 PM
Here's how it's effected me...

And no, this won't effect most LightWave people, which is why you won't see much of me on the forums. But for anyone who does motion graphics or video production. (Or just anyone who wants to help me try to keep my family together...)

We have four new volumes of stock footage about to come out, and the clips will be available in VT-ready AVI format. These volumes are all shot on film by working Hollywood professional crews.

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The titles are...

Frantic City
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Traffic Overdrive
High speed and slow motion traffic - shot day, dusk, and night. This gorgeous film footage includes long cuts of traffic, and has that high quality 'streaky light' effect. Plus, you get over twenty different clips- a huge assortment.

Money & Causal Business
Over 50 clips with beauty shots of US currency, including close up currency and coins, a briefcase full of money, stocks and bonds and much more plus young, positive business images - people working on their laptops by the pool, on the cell phone, and happily closing a business deal.

US Patriotism
US Flags, a Purple Heart, the Declaration of Independence, moving footage of a Vet's cemetary and even a US Flag cake and more. This volume has dozens of clips that are perfect for this election year, 4th of July, and busy political climate. Great for editors and graphic designers.

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Here's a couple of Ebay posts...

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Hervé
04-18-2004, 01:22 AM
I dont need all those movies.... but I wish you a good luck for you and your Family...;)