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View Full Version : Where's Lightwave 8??



Tony3d
03-30-2004, 06:14 AM
Has everyone forgotten were still waiting for this upgrade? What really concerns me is why have there been no, not one OSX screen shot or movie? I am also getting very concerned about the waffer thin Mac Magazine's, and the third party software vendors beginning to pull out of the Mac market. The usual Speed bump.....where is it? Talk of placing G5 chips in the iMAc this early in the game. The fact that Apple has made no mention of the Mac's 20th anniversary, and there total dedication to the iPod and now rumors of more consumer products coming really has to make one think......what's going on with there pro line? Hey look, I have been a Mac patriot since my first 128k machine ( I was second in line my brother was first) not to mention all my Apple 2's. For the first time though I am getting worried about the Mac. I know Apple is making ton's of money with there iPod hell my family has 4, but I sure hope they don't loose sight of what got them here. What's your take?

Activator
03-30-2004, 07:05 AM
I, too, have been a Mac user since my first 128k in 1985. I think the Mac, and Apple, are ok. Not going anywhere. Just morphing. Again.

Maybe Apple has diversified a bit too much, trying to get all the creative bases covered (FCP, Shake, DVD Studio, Logic Audio, the i-apps, etc.) and I think some software vendors are thinking that they don't need to develop for the Mac, Apple will do it for them. This has already begun with Adobe Premiere becoming a PC-only app.

The up side is that the Apple apps like FCP, Shake and DVD Studio are becoming the "standard". Even if Premier was still a Mac app, I'd use FCP. No contest. Apps like After Effects, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, etc. are not going to go PC only because they still have a huge Mac-user base. The Mac is still THE "creative" platform, and the 1st choice of "most" creative studios for daily work. (With PCs to do the "grunt" work.)

I don't think the Mac is in any danger of becoming extinct. Newtek has NEVER supported the Mac as robustly as the PC, so nothing's changed. The LW8 screen shots are PC simply because they code for the PC first and port to the Mac later.

Though there are more LW plugins that are PC only, the main ones are still available for the Mac. NextLimit's super high-end Real Flow is slated to become a Mac product any day now. (Woo Hoo!)

Though I may get a few PCs for rendering one day, (they ARE fast and cheap, but also feel "cheap" to use) you'll have to pry my Mac from my cold, stiff hands.

:D

Chuck
03-30-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Activator
The LW8 screen shots are PC simply because they code for the PC first and port to the Mac later.

Actually the overwhelming majority of the code is platform independent and development always proceeds in parallel on both platforms. The reason for Windows screenshots is simply that Proton's workstation is a Windows machine and Proton does the screenshots.

Tony3d
03-30-2004, 02:28 PM
Chuck when will you have a release date?

Beamtracer
03-30-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
The reason for Windows screenshots is simply that Proton's workstation is a Windows machine and Proton does the screenshots. We all know that Proton's preferred machine is a PC running Microsoft Windows. He also says doesn't like Quicktime.

This is why Newtek LW8 videos were first released in some obscure Windows AVI codec (with ridiculously massive file sizes). It was only after the moans of discontent from the Mac users that QT versions were released (which had smaller file sizes), translated by someone else within Newtek (Deuce, I think).

I've made this suggestion many times before: Get Proton a Mac and make him use it as his primary machine for at least 6 months. It won't kill him.

Proton is supposed to be the "Lightwave Evangelist". But so far he has only been evangelizing for Windows.

Proton is a really talented Lightwave user. I admire his Lightwave skills, and some of the fantastic character models he's created. If he went Mac for a while it would go a long way towards changing peoples' perceptions of Newtek towards Macs.

robar3d
03-30-2004, 05:50 PM
:confused:

Pardon my ignorance but who's Proton?

Rob

Beamtracer
03-30-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by robar3d
Pardon my ignorance but who's Proton?
:) He must have a big profile in the Mac community!

Name: William Vaughan
Nickname: Proton
Employer: Newtek
Job Title: Lightwave Evangelist

Proton promoting Windows Boxxes:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4882
(He's the guy in the first photo with the Boxxes)

Proton profile:
http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/community/lightwave/vaughan/vaughan_1.html

Ade
03-30-2004, 08:23 PM
Beam u cant change ppl, they need to learn for themselves at their own time, in the meantime Newtek should take turns and give the screen dumpiong job to someone whose easy on both platforms...Someone like Policarpo..But hes busy, but u get my drift.

Beamtracer
03-30-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Ade
Beam u cant change pplThe idea to have Proton work on a Mac for 6 months would not be to turn him into a Mac fanboy. I don't think that would ever happen. It would just get him thinking more cross-platform.

It would encourage him to consider Mac issues, beyond just the occasional demo at a trade show. To consider using a Mac for everyday tasks as well as Lightwave. That's all. At the moment it's one sided the other way.

Proton is a talented guy. It would be great to have him evangelizing equally about Macs as Windows boxes. After all, users of both platforms are equally customers of Newtek.

tingham
03-30-2004, 10:23 PM
The fact that we're having a discussion at all about the intentions of NewTek's representative is warrant enough that something should be done to resolve it.

We are already Lightwave users, but before I bought into it, I honestly wasn't even sure it ran on the Mac, I had to go find out. This is a serious problem in my mind, because how many other people out there are hesitating because they don't know and don't have the time to find out just now?

More important, how many lost sales is too many for Newtek. Would not getting 2 sales ( $1600 ) be enough to warrant maybe looking into splitting the shots in the manual in half / mac / win or perhaps just doing some promotional materials with the mac in mind?

I don't think that it's that we feel underrepresented in any way, rather that we know it could be done better. Mac users have a tendency to buy stuff after they see it working, call it a "Platform Defense Mechanism" :)

Ade
03-30-2004, 11:05 PM
ive noticed more new lw users r usually mac owners in design.

toby
03-31-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by tingham
The fact that we're having a discussion at all about the intentions of NewTek's representative is warrant enough that something should be done to resolve it.
They've tried to resolve it several times, they've stated their enthusiasm for OSX, they were one of the first on OSX, every one of their programmers has one on their desk, etc. etc. It seems like this discussion will continue until the Mac is given priority over Windows, like Adobe.


perhaps just doing some promotional materials with the mac in mind?
Half-price to Mac Photoshop owners, or $1500 worth of Realviz software, doesn't that count?

Chuck
03-31-2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
We all know that Proton's preferred machine is a PC running Microsoft Windows. He also says doesn't like Quicktime.

He says he has not found it to be as cross-platform compatible as other users indicate - he's had trouble with it on Windows machines.

I've never had any difficulty with Quicktime playback - not sure why he has encountered difficulties.


This is why Newtek LW8 videos were first released in some obscure Windows AVI codec (with ridiculously massive file sizes).

There's nothing obscure about it, and the codec is available for both Mac and Windows.


It was only after the moans of discontent from the Mac users that QT versions were released (which had smaller file sizes), translated by someone else within Newtek (Deuce, I think).

This is not the case - the plan before we ever released the first one was that Deuce would be converting to Quicktime.


I've made this suggestion many times before: Get Proton a Mac and make him use it as his primary machine for at least 6 months. It won't kill him.

Proton has requested a Mac for a primary workstation.


Proton is supposed to be the "Lightwave Evangelist". But so far he has only been evangelizing for Windows.


That's not the case, actually. Proton demos regularly using Mac platforms - we have a good relationship with Apple and they regularly provide us with up to date demo systems for Mac events and for events geared to the print and design market.


Proton is a really talented Lightwave user. I admire his Lightwave skills, and some of the fantastic character models he's created. If he went Mac for a while it would go a long way towards changing peoples' perceptions of Newtek towards Macs.

Again, Proton has asked to have a Mac as a primary system. It's in consideration with the executive staff.

jdavidbakr
03-31-2004, 08:44 AM
We Mac users so often act like a spoiled child... some of the comments in these threads make me feel like everyone is looking for a reason that Mac is not being favored. Really, it is getting to the point where, if I were NewTek, I would be asking "what will it take to please these people, and is it worth it?" I've used LW on both Mac and PC, and in my experience LW is no less stable and has fewer problems on the Mac than it is on the PC. I didn't upgrade to 8 during the DFX offer because I figured I would just wait until it was either released or a Mac-based offer was made. Now I have two RealViz programs that are really cool, that I was interested in but didn't want to drop the cash for. I didn't jump on the Panther bandwagon because I never upgrade OS's until I see what kind of reaction it has with the programs I use. I have done several projects using LW 7.5 on my G4 and it has served me well and made me good money. That's why I bought the software. Does NewTek treat us like the stepchild? I really don't believe that is true. I think there is general user interface and optimizations that can be made for the Mac, and the move to XCode should facilitate this to a degree, but LW is extremely functional and if I need a render in a hurry I can always send it to ResPower. Sorry, I just get sick of the constant complaining on these boards.

Tony3d
03-31-2004, 08:53 AM
What is respower? I render to print a lot, sounds like something I could use.

jdavidbakr
03-31-2004, 08:59 AM
Respower (http://www.respower.com)
It's a self-service render farm, they have 250 computers. I just used them on a big project, a 45-second animation (1300 frames) that took about 30 minutes/frame on my computer. I didn't have enough computers to throw that one through my network render and get it done in time (it would have still taken several days, and I needed it the next day), so I sent it up there. It was done in a couple of hours and cost about $550. Not for every project, but if you have a big render with a tight deadline they definitely are worth looking at.

They do have split frame capability, too, although I don't know anything about it, I rarely do print stuff. I'd ask them about it, though.

mlinde
03-31-2004, 09:45 AM
I have to second Jon on this thread. I've been watching and listening, and a lot of people here who have vaild, knowledgeable feedback are WAY off base with so much of this speculation and paranoia.

As Chuck stated (beat me to the punch, BTW) Proton regularly demos on Mac systems. In fact, it was his hands running the demo of LW[8] at MacWorld this January, on a mac, BTW. As I have mentioned before, the development team for Lightwave (not just Scott T, the Mac specialist) all has access to both Mac & Windows machines.

In fact, Newtek originally produced a product that ran on the Motorola processor that powered the Quadra and Centris lines of Macs, but was installed in the Amiga computers. The OS wasn't Windows for the original Lightwave or Toaster. I'm sure many of you will continue to have doubts, frustrations, and paranoia regardless of what any "official" Newtek rep would say (sorry Chuck), but after my interactions with the team at Newtek, I am fairly confident in their commitment to making quality software for the Mac. I look forward to getting my copy of Lightwave [8] and working with it, as soon as my workstation is running again. In fact, maybe I'll call up Newtek and order it today, so I can be one of the first on the boat when [8] is available.

archiea
03-31-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
Again, Proton has asked to have a Mac as a primary system. It's in consideration with the executive staff.


Holy horsefeathers, is this true? Well, the executive staff better get on it.... I think us mac users can definitley use and "internal" mac evengelist over at Newtek...... I think with just the free iApps, the apple platform would cater well to Proton's training materials. And I mean that with all seriousness.. I would say that his main challenge would be encoding WMP files for the PC folks, unless QT was fine for them.....