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Aegis
03-28-2004, 04:39 PM
You gotta wonder how secure your job is working in this industry - where are we all gonna be in 10 years time..?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3668406628

Bytehawk
03-28-2004, 05:27 PM
LOL

cool move on them

js33
03-28-2004, 05:43 PM
Wow the current bid is only $260? Newtek should snatch them up before anyone else does. :D

Cheers,
JS

meatycheesyboy
03-28-2004, 07:43 PM
"Your winning bid will give you the exclusive right to negotiate a contract with the team."

In other words, if you even want to talk with us, you need to pay us money up front.

Sounds kind of arrogant to me.

private
03-28-2004, 09:08 PM
It's kind of funny...but the money will go to charity. I'm sure if you email them, they will give their names and send their resumes. Kind of a funny publicity stunt. Depending on their skill level, it could be quite a bargain.

If they could get edges and fix the subD texturing upon their arrival, it's a steal! :P

Aegis
03-28-2004, 09:13 PM
Maybe we should all pitch in $20 then get them to talk to Chuck if we win? :D

js33
03-28-2004, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by meatycheesyboy
"Your winning bid will give you the exclusive right to negotiate a contract with the team."

In other words, if you even want to talk with us, you need to pay us money up front.

Sounds kind of arrogant to me.

Yeah but I believe these guys all worked on 3D max so they aren't nobodies.

Cheers,
JS

julos
03-28-2004, 10:35 PM
Hehe very funny and imaginative ! :D

So hwo do people know they come from Discreet ? (3dsmax)

Nemoid
03-29-2004, 12:41 AM
LOL!!!!:D

js33
03-29-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by julos
Hehe very funny and imaginative ! :D

So hwo do people know they come from Discreet ? (3dsmax)

After the jobs of Grubba's team were offshored to Canada by their company Discreet, the programmers decided to stick together. So in hopes of gaining publicity and, even better some job offers, they decided to sell themselves on eBay for a minimum bid of $250, under the name “Teamoffshored”. The deadline for bids is April 2. As of Thursday evening, there has been one bid so far.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-587486,curpg-1.cms

Maybe Newtek should really consider talking to these guys!

Cheers,
JS

private
03-29-2004, 06:37 AM
"We were the core team of the world's leading 3D graphics, animation, and rendering system. This system sets the standard by which all others are measured due to our many years of work as a team and individual talents we bring to it."

There's a bug in that statement. :p

Rich
03-29-2004, 07:10 AM
Yea so they set the standard? How many people have used 3dMax and noticed that the Z axis sticks up instead of the Y axis? LoL, you would think that if they set the standard then every other 3d ap would be that way.

WizCraker
03-29-2004, 12:50 PM
I say Newtek should look into it. It wouldn't hurt to see what they are offering. And it never hurts having top notch 3D Graphic programmers on hand. Even if they worked for a competitor.

js33
03-29-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Rich
Yea so they set the standard? How many people have used 3dMax and noticed that the Z axis sticks up instead of the Y axis? LoL, you would think that if they set the standard then every other 3d ap would be that way.

Maya gives you the option of making the z-axis the up axis too. But I don't know why you would want to.

Cheers,
JS

Beamtracer
03-29-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by js33
Maya gives you the option of making the z-axis the up axis too. But I don't know why you would want to. Architecture

amorano
03-29-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Rich
Yea so they set the standard? How many people have used 3dMax and noticed that the Z axis sticks up instead of the Y axis? LoL, you would think that if they set the standard then every other 3d ap would be that way.

Left handed vs. Right handed systems. It makes a difference in the game world where right handed systems are mostly used (default directx space).

It also has use in architectural space. And considering 3ds Max started out by two guys who did Arc Vis back when it was 3dstudio.....

I am suprised that most graphics users don't know why things are the way they are for a reason.

js33
03-29-2004, 04:06 PM
But what is the practical reason or benefit from doing things in an illogical manner? Is the matrix math easier to calculate in a right hand vs. a left hand system? I prefer the logical approach that Lightwave uses where z is distance.

Cheers,
JS

WizCraker
03-29-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by js33
But what is the practical reason or benefit from doing things in an illogical manner? Is the matrix math easier to calculate in a right hand vs. a left hand system? I prefer the logical approach that Lightwave uses where z is distance.

Cheers,
JS

Well the 3D Cartesian the Z is distance so whomever decided it was up must be using a differnt cordinate system.

Tim Parsons
03-29-2004, 07:02 PM
luxology.net is down, so maybe it's Brad and the guy's!

js33
03-29-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by WizCraker
Well the 3D Cartesian the Z is distance so whomever decided it was up must be using a differnt cordinate system.

Yes but why? What is the advantage?

Cheers,
JS

Adrian Lopez
03-29-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by amorano
Left handed vs. Right handed systems. It makes a difference in the game world where right handed systems are mostly used (default directx space).Direct3D is left-handed, but either way the default camera orientation has the Y axis pointing up and the X axis pointing right. If all your models have Z pointing up then you have to either a) negate z and rotate your models (bad idea), b) negate z and rotate the world/camera (bad idea) or, c) set x = x, y = z and z = y when reading coordinates into Direct3D (better idea). As you can see, games do not benefit from such an arrangement. Aside from architechtural applications (where X and Y represent the plan view and Z represents height), there's no good reason to have Z pointing up in the air.

Karmacop
03-29-2004, 07:34 PM
Yep, max only has it because in autocad you would make your blue prints on the xy plain, which makes alot of sense, but then bringing the blue prints into 3d means you have to add an axis, and you don't want to change the name of axis between the 2d and 3d representation.

Why DX uses the same system is beyond me ... I suppose the original developers were using 3dsmax.

Adrian Lopez
03-29-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Karmacop
Why DX uses the same system is beyond me ... I suppose the original developers were using 3dsmax. Actually, it doesn't use the same system at all. Direct3D uses a left-handed coordinate system while 3DS Max is right-handed. Furthermore, the default view in Direct3D has +Y pointing up, +X pointing to the right and +Z pointing away from the viewer, while 3DS Max has +Z pointing up, +X pointing right and +Y pointing away from the viewer.

Having said all that, I prefer right-handed coordinate systems with a default orientation such that +Z points toward the viewer (so that objects in perspective get smaller as their Z coordinates become more negative).

Karmacop
03-29-2004, 10:39 PM
Sorry, from this thread I thought someone said they were the same. Sorry :(

WizCraker
03-30-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by amorano
Left handed vs. Right handed systems. It makes a difference in the game world where right handed systems are mostly used (default directx space).


After reading over this thread again I noticed the above quote is wrong about DirectX.

From the DirectX 9 SDK Docs explaining the X-File [Legacy] Format.

"Microsoft® Direct3D® uses a left-handed coordinate system. If you are porting an application that is based on a right-handed coordinate system, you must make two changes to the data passed to Direct3D.

The .x files generated by the exporter plug-ins store all mesh data in a left-handed (LH) coordinate system, to match the left-handed coordinate system used by DirectX, even though 3ds max and Maya use a right-handed coordinate system.

Although left-handed and right-handed coordinates are the most common systems, there is a variety of other coordinate systems used in 3-D software. For example, it is not unusual for 3-D modeling applications to use a coordinate system in which the y-axis points toward or away from the viewer, and the z-axis points up. In this case, right-handedness is defined as any positive axis (x, y, or z) pointing toward the viewer. Left-handedness is defined as any positive axis (x, y, or z) pointing away from the viewer. If you are porting a left-handed modeling application where the z-axis points up, you must do a rotation on all the vertex data in addition to the previous steps."

js33
03-31-2004, 03:18 AM
You notice how they mentioned 3DMax and Maya but not Lightwave. :mad:

Cheers,
JS

Kvaalen
03-31-2004, 05:41 AM
Personally, I don't have any confidence in such a thing. The way they say they are the best and that you can't find people that are better puts me off. It'll be like me telling someone that wants to hire me that I'm the best 3D modeler alive. I don't think NewTek should bid on this and I feel bad for those that did.

CB_3D
03-31-2004, 05:56 AM
Makes you wonder why their team was laid off in favor of the others, if they are the "best".
:rolleyes:

stone
03-31-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by js33
You notice how they mentioned 3DMax and Maya but not Lightwave.

notice how you are able to misunderstand what they write and get upset without reason?

they are listing 3d programs using right-handed cordinates. lightwave uses left-handed cordinates. i could understand if you were an xsi user and got upset, since they use right-handed as well though they have y pointing up, they have z going outwards, hence its a rotated right-handed system - and on a side note, cinema 4d uses a left-handed system like lightwave does.

also there arnt much reason for using either the one or the other. either one isnt more logical and its a matter of preferences.

/stone

Chris S. (Fez)
03-31-2004, 08:21 AM
I heard the Max team was based in San Fran. Discreet moved everything to Montreal. These guys were invited but did not want to go.

Rich
03-31-2004, 08:51 AM
Actually Maya uses the same axis direction as LW with Y sticking up. Maybe their is a way to change this but this is the default setting in Maya.

stone
03-31-2004, 08:57 AM
its the same as xsi, notice how z points outwards, meaning its a right-handed system rotated 90 degrees around the x-axis.

the concept is really simple; on either hand, thumb is x-axis, index finger is y-axis and middle finger is z. now hold your fingers like a 'gun', middle finger being the trigger-finger. you will see that maya's cordinate system matches that of your right hand.

/stone

Adrian Lopez
03-31-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by WizCraker
From the DirectX 9 SDK Docs explaining the X-File [Legacy] Format.

"... it is not unusual for 3-D modeling applications to use a coordinate system in which the y-axis points toward or away from the viewer, and the z-axis points up. In this case, right-handedness is defined as any positive axis (x, y, or z) pointing toward the viewer."This doesn't seem correct. Check out MathWorld's illustration (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Right-HandedCoordinateSystem.html) of a right-handed coordinate system. You'll notice it has Z pointing up, X pointing right and Y pointing away.


"... Left-handedness is defined as any positive axis (x, y, or z) pointing away from the viewer. If you are porting a left-handed modeling application where the z-axis points up, you must do a rotation on all the vertex data in addition to the previous steps." Same objection. Check out Mathworld's illustration (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Left-HandedCoordinateSystem.html) of a left-handed coordinate system. You'll notice it looks exactly the same as the right-handed system, except for the labels.

So handedness has nothing at all to do with an arbitrary axis pointing toward or away from the viewer. Rather, handedness has to do with the relationships between the named axes X, Y and Z, relationships which are independent of how the axes are rotated in relation to the viewer (which is what determines whether an arbitrary axis points toward or away from the viewer).

Rich
03-31-2004, 09:18 AM
I understand what you are saying now Stone, thanks for clearing that up. I was only paying attention to the fact that Z was sticking up or not. I never noticed it was facing towards you in Maya and away in LW.

Adrian Lopez
03-31-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Adrian Lopez
set x = x, y = z and z = -y when reading coordinates into Direct3DIt turns out this is incorrect. The proper way to convert from 3DS to Direct3D is to set x = x, y = z and z = y. Setting z = -y produces a right-hand coordinate system (as for OpenGL), not the left-hand coordinate system used by Direct3D.

WizCraker
03-31-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by js33
You notice how they mentioned 3DMax and Maya but not Lightwave. :mad:

Cheers,
JS

Because Microsoft provides Legacy plugins for Max and Maya.