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Hurben
03-17-2003, 12:09 PM
Here's an image I completed at the end of last year. This is the room I was working in (it had more furniture then:rolleyes: )
I only just realized that the fruit is positioned where I used to work and that maybe it's a subconscious image that I conjured up. It wasn't for any work, in fact, I have no idea why I did it.

oxygen_77
03-17-2003, 12:28 PM
wow, scary... I remember posting a reply about this one when you were working on it originally... weird... good, but weird...

kingds
03-17-2003, 03:25 PM
Maybe it's you (the fruit) coming out of the closet.... heheh ahhahah:D :D :D Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I just coudn't resist.:D

Hurben
03-17-2003, 03:37 PM
Nice to see I inspired your first post...

dzogchen
03-18-2003, 11:56 PM
What kind of fruit are you?:p

stoehr
03-20-2003, 07:09 PM
This is a beautiful render. I love the light source.

Hurben
03-20-2003, 10:42 PM
Actually, the lens flare was added in photoshop.. (is that cheating?) :)

Dave3D
03-21-2003, 04:11 AM
Nice light rig, The lense flares not cheating but it will cause a little problem if u wana animate it.

Dave;)

stoehr
03-21-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Hurben
Actually, the lens flare was added in photoshop.. (is that cheating?) :)

I didn't even notice the lens flare (that's a good thing). No, it's not cheating. As Dave3d said, it becomes a problem if you were to move anything.

aloysius1001
03-25-2003, 09:43 PM
reminds me of Magrite(Boy, that spelling just looks all sorts of wrong).

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 01:20 AM
I only just realized that the fruit is positioned where I used to work and that maybe it's a subconscious image that I conjured up. It wasn't for any work, in fact, I have no idea why I did it.

BULLSHlT, pumpkin head.

Image by Renee Magritte:

Hurben
03-26-2003, 01:23 AM
Do you mean Rene Magritte?

I did a search and found some interesting stuff.
Of course! he's the guy that did that painting of the man in a bowler hat with an apple for a head.

Re: Moving/Animating.. the way I've set the light rig up wouldn't let me animate too easily anyway. I could probably do a composite in AE of the flare though.

Here's a pic of the lighting setup I used (my most succesful one to date) Spot lights inside. You can see the area light outside, there are 2. Also the linear light I put in front of the fence because is was too darkly lit.

cya..

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 01:29 AM
2D - The creation of visual medium restricted to 2 Dimensions.

Eat your tongue.


we live on a sphere

Any more interesting thoughts to share?

d8ed
03-26-2003, 02:05 AM
honestly.. this hurts my eyes. you've got a very bright lens flare on the right and a very bright hot spot on the left. i can barely look at it for more than a couple of seconds at a time.

also the shadow on the fruit doesnt correspond to the position of the harsh light coming in from outside. a light that strong would cast a pretty damn strong shadow on the floor as it was entering the room. the fruit's shadow looks like it's coming from a light from the corner.

also the fruit is between the window and the door yet the door is being lit like it's being hit by direct sunlight. it should only be getting bounce light since it's off to the side.

also what time do you say this is? your sun is pretty low and it shouldnt be quite so strong at this point.

a couple of recommendations to fix this.. you're obviously not keen to using radiosity which is fine by me. it would however be a good idea to do a radiosity render with a basic surface on everything with your main light source (the sun) and no other spots active to get a better idea as to what this should look like with the bounce light generated by radiosity. a simple scene like this shouldnt take too long to render. it'll give you something to work off of and try to emulate with traditional lighting.

also really really really consider losing the lens flare and moving your light source away from a direct path with the camera since in real life if you were shooting with the sun pointing into the lens your image would be practically white and blown out.

sorry to sound so harsh in my comments but i've got a hard time holding back. good luck and i hope you keep pushing this since i kinda like the whole fruit thing.

Matt
03-26-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
Any more interesting thoughts to share?

Can't help but take a pop at people can you?

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 02:24 AM
Do you mean Rene Magritte?

- Yes that ARTIST, that you copied.

I did a search and found some interesting stuff.

- Really?

Of course! he's the guy that did that painting of the man in a bowler hat with an apple for a head.

- Sudenly he remembers.

- I only just realized that the fruit is positioned where I used to work and that maybe it's a subconscious image that I conjured up. It wasn't for any work, in fact, I have no idea why I did it.

- The moment of inspiration.

Re: Moving/Animating.. the way I've set the light rig up wouldn't let me animate too easily anyway. I could probably do a composite in AE of the flare though.

- The flare isnīt giving any value to the scene. If you want to copy, at least do it right, and donīt lie.

Here's a pic of the lighting setup I used (my most succesful one to date) Spot lights inside. You can see the area light outside, there are 2. Also the linear light I put in front of the fence because is was too darkly lit.

- (my most succesful one to date), - If it is the best light setup, please, donīt show us the worse one.

badgerboy
03-26-2003, 02:51 AM
ModelMonkey,

With regard to your posts, I hope you were having a bad day and that isn't your normal tone.

I think Hurben has been very restrained in not rising to your comments. The forum, in my opinion, is to show off your work and have other people crit, not slate you personally.

We have a saying in the Uk: "Talk to me like that again and I'll smash your f*****g teeth in."

badgerboy
03-26-2003, 03:02 AM
Ha ha ha... ...small penis?

Hurben
03-26-2003, 03:19 AM
wow .. that was unexpected. I don't think I deserve to be spoken to like that. I didn't lie. I had never heard of Magritte until his name was mentioned here. And I had never seen that image until you posted it.
It is possible for 2 people to have similar ideas and thoughts.

With regard to the comments on the light rig.. I wasn't going for ultra realism, just for more variations. I didn't mean the most succesfully 'ultra-real' light rig, just most successful with regard to render speed and colour. But it was really a personal note, I didn't expect to be flamed for it.

ModelMonkey: that's just plain nasty, I didn't do anything to you and I really don't deserve it.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 03:45 AM
I didn't lie. I had never heard of Magritte until his name was mentioned here. And I had never seen that image until you posted it. It is possible for 2 people to have similar ideas and thoughts.

You must really think that some people here didnīt studied art history...


Ohh...Maybe Magritte copied your work, hum... wait, he born in 1898, and heīs dead...

Hurben
03-26-2003, 04:00 AM
Actually I never did study art history..

d8ed
03-26-2003, 04:33 AM
so he copied some art.. knowingly or unknowingly, it happens every day. how much original art do you see out there nowadays? not much. let's go back to being civil to each other or someone's likely to get banned.

Capt Lightwave
03-26-2003, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
You must really think that some people here didnīt studied art history...


What about studying good manners, monkeyboy, cause you sounds like a d*mn as*hole.

If you're in these forums to be an a'shole, grow a brain and come back when it's ripe, cause we sure as h*ll can do without your criticism.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 05:08 AM
how much original art do you see out there nowadays? not much.

When you and others think this way, you bet that we donīt see original art.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 05:12 AM
I only just realized that the fruit is positioned where I used to work and that maybe it's a subconscious image that I conjured up. It wasn't for any work, in fact, I have no idea why I did it.

That was the lines that pisses someone that knows something about art.

He could be honest but he didnīt.

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 05:22 AM
grow a brain and come back when it's ripe
No, don`t be hard on him: sufferers of Tourettes can`t help themselves.

I don`t think Hurben is lying. Convergent thinking happens.

Again, there is the possibility that he saw the Magritte a very long while ago and completely forgot about it. If so, to dredge up from his subconscious the main details of the picture must have demanded the same skill and invention as if it had been completely original.

R

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 05:30 AM
Rory_L: You missed your career. Quit 3d, you must go defend O.J. Simpson type cases.

Fool yourself, donīt make others to be fool with you.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 05:43 AM
Another example of convergent thinking. Oh my... Even the signature is convergent, now thatīs something!

Capt Lightwave
03-26-2003, 05:51 AM
And your point is....?

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 05:56 AM
ModelMonkey, I`m sorry: I shouldn`t have been rude to you. I behaved exactly the way I wish you wouldn`t and that was wrong of me.

I can see how an apparently bare faced lie could get you angry, but the thing to have done was to have kept your cool and show Hurben the Magritte and politely suggest that there might be some connection that he had till then failed to spot! Public opinion would have been more receptive to your points.

R

PS. Actually, your sunflowers post is quite funny! :D

Hurben
03-26-2003, 06:07 AM
ModelMonkey I'm flattered you could draw a corelation between my work and Magritte's. I agree the similarities are definately numerous. And again I defend myself, the only works I had ever seen before this were the one with the man with an apple for a head and the one where a man is looking into a mirror with the reflection facing his back to him.
I'm not sure what your comments regarding your signature mean and I don't think you're being either helpful or constructive.

Have a look at my website, I'm not out to copy anyone's work and then try and gain respect from my peers by posting it here.
It is pure coincidence.

Now please, I started this thread to get some constructive criticism, don't go hijacking it for your benine pleasure.

Here's an image without the fruit and post-processing:

d8ed
03-26-2003, 06:18 AM
it looks much better this way. the door suddenly looks very short.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 06:30 AM
the door suddenly looks very short.

He have convergent thinking, but unfortunately doesnīt have the "use ruler" gift. This is getting better and better.

Hurben
03-26-2003, 06:38 AM
but unfortunately doesnīt have the "use ruler" gift

I just did it from my eyesight, I wanted it to be a little off beat.. if I wanted it perfect to scale I would have taken a photo.

Why don't you link to some of your work ModelMonkey?

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 06:54 AM
I just did it from my eyesight, I wanted it to be a little off beat.. if I wanted it perfect to scale I would have taken a photo.

- Your eyesight is a little odd, maybe it works well for midgets.
Itīs easy, if you want i make you a drawing so you can find it. Modeler-> Construct -> Utility -> Measure -> Measure Tool...
There you go.

Why don't you link to some of your work ModelMonkey?

- For you to practise more convergent thinking? No thanks!

d8ed
03-26-2003, 06:56 AM
Hurben.. i realize you're trying to be original and different from everyone yet you ask for critiques and comments. you however reject every single one. i understand that you don't normally see a huge piece of fruit sitting in a room by a window but viewers of your artwork will expect some sort of standard. if you show a window with the sun shining through it, they expect it to shine a certain way and to cast shadows a certain way. by sticking to those fundamentals you not only create something that's pleasing to the eye but something that's comfortable. obviously a piece of fruit sitting in a room isnt meant to bring up feelings of discomfort. currently, this piece is just plain painful to the eyes. you can either choose to fix it and accept the comments and critiques people seem willing to give.. or just flat out tell everyone that you're done with this and there's nothing we can say to change your mind.

Hurben
03-26-2003, 07:29 AM
There is a vast difference between critique and just plain flaming.

d8ed, you know I think it's because I don't feel like going back to work on that piece right away that I find it hard to take in the crit. Trust me, I do take in the suggestions. I understand about the size of the window and door:
See the thread here (http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/33300.html?1035402518)

I really just want to know what people think, but I'm finished with it. That why I posted in the "Finished Gallery" :)

cya

d8ed
03-26-2003, 07:38 AM
well then it's finished. on to the next one.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 07:41 AM
You should change: we live on a sphere, to, i live only in my brain.

Hurben
03-26-2003, 07:53 AM
Now it's getting personal.

I'll change it if you post an image you've created.

pixelranger
03-26-2003, 09:09 AM
ModelMonkey: What the **** is your problem? You've lost your legs or something? Then I'd understand the bitterness, but still it's unfair to take it out on Hurben!! If you don't like his image or that he recreated a picture he saw, why bother?
If you have nothing constructive or "on topic" to say, then shut the **** up or expect the same treatment from others when you post something...

The light setup looks interesting Hurben. How long did it take to render?

Matt
03-26-2003, 11:26 AM
Dean Morgan . . . I expected better from a 36 year old.

DragonAngel
03-26-2003, 12:34 PM
Well I'm very disapointed with the way ModelMonkey is acting. I do believe that its no longer a freedom of opion he is expressing but it has become flaming.

I hope the forums monitors will do something... If not a ban, atleast a threath... I surely would'nt want any flaming like that for one of my posts.

MY GOD PLEASE TELL US WHAT AS CAUSED YOU SO MUCH PAIN MODELMONKEY? AT LEAST THIS WAY WE MAY HELP YOU SOMEHOW!!!
ART IS CREATED USING REFERENCES, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT WAS COPIED... I CHALLANGE YOU TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT WAS SOMEWHAT NOT ALREADY CREATED. TRUE ORIGINALITY IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE BUT IMPROBABLE IF NOT A MIRACLE.

Matt
03-26-2003, 12:55 PM
I have doubts whether he's a registered lightwave user.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 02:45 PM
This looks like the cry of the victims, have some dignity for yourselves.

People came here to show their work, sorry if i donīt say "So nice, so cute" to everypost. What we have here is tons of people with "sky ego", please come down to earth, and learn to accept opinions that arenīt cute rated. And stop searching for the black sheep, at least iīm frontal. Iīm very disapointed with the lame critics that we see here. A person that learns to be better with hard critics, have more chances to be better if they not fool her that his work is superb, when it isnīt. And i donīt flame people, i push the right buttons so they can learn another point of view, what we have here? A bunch of pussies, spoiled kids, or men? Grow and be proud artists.

Iīm tired of lazy pseudo-artists, very affected.

In the end we will see who is working, and who is giving us BULLSHlT like this:


I only just realized that the fruit is positioned where I used to work and that maybe it's a subconscious image that I conjured up. It wasn't for any work, in fact, I have no idea why I did it.

anim8torguy
03-26-2003, 03:33 PM
Being an as*hole doesn't help, Monkey.

I remember a post with you whining about people not treating you professionaly or you being a "professional" or not....well behave like one or shut yer hole. I sure as he** don't see you as a professional at all, judging from your posts here, not one bit.....

Matt
03-26-2003, 04:24 PM
"model monkey" so what you're saying is because you aren't afraid
to speak your mind when people ask for opinions on their work it
makes you different and honest from all the other people on this forum right?

Other people manage to give objective criticism without being
obtuse, being honest doesn't mean you have to be a t*sser with it.

The gems you keep spouting just make me piss my pants with laughter!

You're so quick to dish out advice about pushing ourselves as artists
etc. well why not climb down from your elitist high chair and show
us some of your astounding work then?

Well, come on, charge up your pirated copy of LightWave,
we're all waiting to be shown exactly how it's done.

Or are you all mouth and no pixels?

Hurben
03-26-2003, 04:36 PM
I want to see how it's meant to be done..
I want to see a perfect lighting setup..
I want to see some purely original work..

c'mon Monkey steam something out of your ***.
Show us the goods.

Don't hold back, we're all waiting, anticipating..

or..

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 06:50 PM
sorry if i donīt say "So nice, so cute" to everypost
You don`t say that to any post. I`ve read your messages here on the LW forum and not one has been positive. You say you`re being stern to stimulate improvement. Well, modern day teachers will tell you that a balanced mixture of praise and polite criticism is the most productive form of encouragement. Yours is Dickensian!

R

Paul Lara
03-27-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
at least iīm frontal. Iīm very disapointed with the lame critics that we see here.

In the end we will see who is working, and who is giving us BULLSHlT like this:

And it is such a disappointing lack of courtesy that has earned ModelMonkey BANNED status on the NewTek forums.

Paul Lara
Forums Moderator

Matt
03-27-2003, 10:49 AM
yay!!! thanks NT!

lightwave is well known for it's supportive and friendly users,
this guy was none of those things, not to be missed at all.

:)

Capt Lightwave
03-27-2003, 03:25 PM
I almost had the impression that he was a MAX user.....shudder ;)

Anyway, back to LightWave ;) ;)

Rory_L
03-27-2003, 07:28 PM
Thankyou Paul: most grateful!

Hurben, I know you said you wanted to abandon this pic and move on, but I think that would be a shame: I like it and I thought your fruit was more interesting than the Magritte one. Why not make a satirical comment on Magritte, or fine art in general with your image? Or you could explore the `Me as a Fruit` theme and do a morphed, squatting human/fruit model: that would be cool!

R

Hurben
03-27-2003, 10:32 PM
Wow! what a turnout..
I think that was the best possible solution, thanks Paul.

and Rory, thanks for your support, I will get back into it, but not right away. Very busy you see... but your comments and everyone else's, not to mention the outcome of this thread have inspired me.
Maybe you won't see it right away, but I'll post it again one day.

Perhaps we can use it as the "thread against evil"

well.. back to it.
cya

oxyg3n
03-28-2003, 01:28 AM
Geez,

I just skimmed through this thread and was very disapointed by what I read. When I first started coming to these forums I thought it would be filled with professionals that acted like adults. I was shocked to see someone actually act like that!

Well, that is my two cents:D

Finger
03-28-2003, 04:07 AM
Iīm glad that justice was made, the guy really sucked with his critics.

kingds
03-28-2003, 07:55 AM
ModelMOnkey is a real dork eh. Do you honestly believe hat there is an original idea out there? Duh. I bet Rene Magritte copied the idea from someone else and made it his own. He just got credit for it.

One day you should wake up and smell the coffee, retard boy.

Matt
03-28-2003, 11:43 AM
hmmmmmm, I'll put money on it that finger IS modelmonkey.

Bionic Antboy
03-28-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Matt
hmmmmmm, I'll put money on it that finger IS modelmonkey.

If it IS Model Monkey, maybe he's found God, or at least Atom :)

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2524

Hurben
03-28-2003, 03:12 PM
I agree Matt, it definately sounds like ModelMonkey..

I wonder if he is giving us the finger...

oxyg3n
03-28-2003, 04:01 PM
I dont know if it is him either, but I had two responses today. ONe from this thread and then one from the finger on a wip I have over at http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?threadid=1058&goto=newpost

I would hate to accuse an innocent person.

paulfierlinger
03-28-2003, 05:26 PM
The floor line under the window is up in the air. The baseboard is out of proportion (to massive) and so is the window. I know nothing about 3D animation, but I always thought that these things are the easiest part, done by the software right at the beginning. Oh, and the stem of the fruit doesn't look natural; it doesn't give me the immpression that the fruit grew around it. I also don't know why I'm writing this. I guess I was just browsing and am mildly surprised that no one has pointed these obvious mistakes out yet. Magritte must be floating in his grave.

Paul Fierlinger

znort
03-29-2003, 04:19 PM
Jehovah's! I've never in all my day seen quite the tomfoolery. My lactose! He's got a bell to ring , ain't he?

Well. .. Finger I wouldn't push it past him, just keep low and don't spoil your pants, keep your socks on yer mouth and shut the f*ck up!

It's people like you that spoil our survival and growth as plentiful humans. Back to the soul robbery.


And like the KLF said:
Back with the heavyweight jam, over and out.

paulfierlinger
03-29-2003, 05:41 PM
OOps -- I just noticed that I had seen only the first and last pages of this thread. LOL -- what I said had been pretty well covered.
PF