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View Full Version : Newtek's marketing in europe - your opinion?



deltacon
03-21-2004, 07:33 AM
Hi forum,

we've discussed this subject to excess in a german forum and I just want to know your oppinion and if you are interested in taking part on a petition to NT.

I think, the marketing of Newtek isn't the best compared to business competitors here in Europe.
That's why I had the idea to write a petition to Newtek, signed by many people who feel affected by this.
I want to ask Newtek, where they want Lightwave to be positioned in the future (mid-range or high-end) and their plans to reach this.

In addition I had the idea, that the users can, if they want and if they aren't doing yet, help Newtek by forwarding press releases, getting vendors of LW, give more schoolings, making cooperations on events or just by distributing demo CDs to companies and persons.

So what do you think about?
Do you like the marketing?
Do you think Lightwave is now safe for the future?
Would you make such cooperations (help) with Newtek?
Are you interested in pushing Lightwave, or do you switch simply, if there comes an alternative (like a crossgrade promotion from Maya...)?
Would you participate on a petition to Newtek, to get to know the future of Lightwave?

bernie

guardonduty
03-21-2004, 10:01 AM
I like the idea. However everyone can start by doing simple things to push the product and themselves

Set up shop at local trade shows and showing your work to the attending public. Push your product (Lightwave)

Spring is here, work outside with your wireless network and flat screen monitor pumping out animation and graphics and a big sign that says 3D animation. You will draw a crowd.

Get in your BMW convertible and go to the park and work on your animation. People will ask questions.

With all the wireless networks around, set up at a street corner and do your 3D animation or get a sign that says "will do 3D for food"

Document your effort with photographs and send them to Newtek. Maybe they will open a new photo section on their site titled "Lightwave 3D, it's everywhere".

You'll never be satisfied with what ever newtek does\doesn't do. Satisfy yourself.

Aegis
03-21-2004, 10:51 AM
Hey guys! Your enthusiasm is terrific but we're not talking about grass roots support here - LightWave has been used since it's debut on high profile TV and film projects - given that NewTek wants it to be a viable alternative to the other big-hitters in the 3D marketplace it is a shame that representation in Europe is almost non-existant. Indeed, Cinema 4D which also started as an Amiga 3D package has better recognition in Europe than LightWave - due in part to their presence at trade shows and their aggressive media campaigning - amazing when just a few years ago no one had heard of it. NewTek could certainly be doing better...

Emmanuel
03-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Yo !

Good You posted this subject here, too, deltacon.
I think the videos Proton was showing were already a major step for the marketing department.
Indeed its a bit "unfortunate" that compnies like Maxon seem to do more marketing than NewTek in Europe.
NT should rest assured that they can't rely on their reputation in Europe when they concentrate on north america.
OTOH, the world is in change, how important is focused marketing when anybody in the business has access to the internet ?
I dunno if the presence on oh so many exhibitions really helps selling the software.
Have a look at how "miserable" SoftImage was before XSI was released, and now ? Things change, time and again.

But then, the Area51 presentation on last Sig sure was a killer !
If we had some projects like "Children of Dune", "Firefly", "Galactica" in Germany, there would be something You could work with on trade shows, exhibitions etc.
I guess it doesn't make sense to do aggressive marketing if You don't have the meat to support it.Germany for example isn't quite a major player in both the games and video business, they are starting out, and LW isn't quite "the" package for the games industry, and Maya is much more established already than LW ever was.
That is not because Maya does great propaganda, but because Maya is more stuffed with useful features and fits better in games studios.
C4D is more of a "advertising agency" tool, its very Mac friendly from what I read and does some great things LW can not do (NURBS, history, great AE support etc), so there is the substance You can advertise with.
Also, You will find that most customers buy software from their home country, so C4D has a great advantage.
Maxon is part of a larger company, too, I think (Nemetschek AG), while NT is on its own.
While its true that marketing can do a lot to a product, getting the foot in the door can be dangerous if the software can't hold the premise.

deltacon
03-21-2004, 01:44 PM
You're right, Emmanuel (you're "Emme", am I right?:)), firstable you need a product, that lives up to its promises, no question.

From my point of view, Newtek had a very good inital situation some years ago, Lightwave was a leading-state-of-the-art tool, but then NT relied on this situation.
Business competitors forged ahead and developed great out-of-the-box tools (Maya), integrated many PlugIns (3DSmax) or just created an "easy to use, but great output"-solution (Cinema).

And I think, NT knows that, that's why it makes no sense to accuse them of the development lack. And I always have in mind, that they recoded the whole program(!). That's waste of time!

BUT: LW 8 was necessary: LW 8 brings up features, that are standard in other tools and that were essential to implement, but the advertising for LW wasn't existing here in Europe, although it's a state-of-the-art tool (again).

I'm looking forward that they have more roadshows with LW 8, but I don't think so.
I'm coming from Austria and there's just 1 (in words: ONE!!!) official reseller here! I think that speaks volumes...
Sometimes there are user meetings, but anything else??? NO!

You know, I could make it easier to me, I still worked with SoftImage and Cinema and a little bit with Maya, but no one of them (except Maya) could satisfy my needs (particularly at this price). I could change, but I'm positive about Lightwave and I want to support it!

But it makes no sense, if I'm alone!

P.S.: I like it much more talking to you in English Emmanuel, 'cause your word choice is nicer :D

Emmanuel
03-22-2004, 04:57 AM
You mean because here I don't say You are a ******, a ****** and even more ****** than any ***** I have ever see before :D ?
Hey, BTW, I just read that Ion Storm used 3DS Max for Deus Ex2, while they at least used some bit of LW for Deus Ex 1 some years ago.
Not because of marketing, but rather because Max ofers the integration and toolset You need for large-scope game development.
I am looking forward to 8 because I also read earlier that they improved the integration with game engines, or at least exporters.
I hope thats true, if not it will be like the fourth year in a row they announce the will to get more active in that area and don't do it anyway.
Its facsinating how small tools like MilkShape, Ultimate Unwrap, Gamespace (caligari) can become important gamedeveloping tools, while LW obviously isn't quite important there.
Oh yeah, there is Doom 3 :/
One of 5.000 games produced every year.Granted, its gonna be an important one, but hey, its a matter of time until someone comes up with
a Max pipeline for it, so what ?
I feat NT will rely on that Doom3 glory for quite some time, while the other 4.999 games will be done with Max and Maya, because NT just doesn't seem to get their SDK together.
Biiiig mistake.

donlmccoy
03-22-2004, 10:58 PM
Emmanuel
Thanks for the mention here
Don L McCoy
-Area51-

Emmanuel
03-26-2004, 05:12 AM
My pleasure.Honour to whom honour is due.

JFAns
03-31-2004, 04:52 AM
Hi to all

I feel that Newtek can do better in Europe and I think the secret is organisation and willing.

One of the measures that I suggest is a meeting every year with the resellers and head representatives of the User groups in Europe.

I, as a Reseller in Portugal and along time user of LW I never speak personally with and meet no one from Newtek or Newtek Europe. I feel that the only think they want is that I sell, sell, sell, but donít listen or even discuss strategies or some think else with resellers and head representatives of the User groups.
You may ask yourselves, we have forums we have Internet, why the need to meet?
I believe, that Internet is a good tool to discuss thinks but will never substitute a meeting or a reunion of people.

I think Resellers can work or should have a close relation with their local User group to discuss and capture the feelings and opinions of the users.

User groups could also support the resellers with demo section in their area, because I think most resellers donít have much experience with the Software to do an good Demo and we know how important is to do a good Demo.

This is only my opinion.

Thank you


Jose Anselmo

Zafar Iqbal
03-31-2004, 08:39 AM
Yes! NewTek can definatly do alot better to promote LW/VT in europe.

I honestly feel that the evolvement has taken a few steps back.

5-6 years ago, when you mentioned LW to someone, they'd go: Aaaah.. that cool program with is beeing used by the big guys at Hollywood, eh?

Nowadays it's: LW? hmm.. i think i know it... hmm...

Everything is Maya, MAX or even Softimage. It's only a short while ago when Maya reduced it's prices - but sill.. it is head toward a solid future not only in high-end, but also mid-end companies.

Think about it.. how much did Maya cost? And still does.. most companies dont even need all the stuff they pay for.... why they do it? Marketing!

Take a look at Discreet. They are literally all over the place!

NewTek....... developing a product isn't everything - even the best product can be a total failure if it doesn't get a propper marketing campaign.

On the other hand: A total lameass software can be a huge succes... thanks to good marketing.

Emmanuel
03-31-2004, 08:56 AM
I think a european LW meeting for users, developers and resellers organized by NewTek would be a very cool thing.

JFAns
03-31-2004, 09:35 AM
Zafar I think you are right when you say that marketing is a must in every product.

But I think you should never forget one thing.

3dMax exist because Autodesk invest a huge amount of money they earn from selling Autocad, and they use Autocad to promote the Max. Than a smart move from Autodesk, buy Discreet and put the development of Max in their hands. Remember, Flame, Inferno, etc.

Softimage or XSI, have a good reputation because Avid has a big background in cinema and in systems for Editing and Post Production. Things that Newtek or other company in the field dream to have.

Maya exist, also, because of an big background in the field.
SGI, Wavefront, they already exist a long time ago before Newtek was born.

All this companyís have a big reputation and are all well known because their past.

I think even with the best marketing in the world is difficult to overcome this fame from other companies.

In the USA Newtek built a good reputation with the Flayer or something, and with the LW in the Amiga computers.
In Europe, Newtek only was known because of LW in Amiga and only in the Amiga community.



Jose Anselmo

Zafar Iqbal
03-31-2004, 09:13 PM
I didn't wanted to go into detailes, but you are absolutely right, FJAns.

But the buttomline is that saying the competitor has this and that history and status behind them is no excuse. NT needs to fight harder against the competition - especially now when software is getting cheaper, and LW has alot of big limitations (no support for third party renderengine, no animateable modeler tools, limited plug-in architecture etc.).

Im planning on learning Maya soon. Why? Because i have no chance in finding a decent job around here where i can use LW :(

For a long time I've had the oppenion that NT dont do theire work well when it came to marketing. Just look at the profiles.. i miss alot profiles from bigger projects - LW was used in Battlestar Galactica among other very interesting things.. i cant find anything about it here or at NT Europe site.

Sometimes (too often imo) you see a profile and go: Hmm.. didn't i see this 6 months ago in a forum?

It's surprising that even though LW has the biggest (and best) community, it's still challanging for NT to come up with news about whats going on around the globe.

BeeVee
04-02-2004, 04:20 AM
More can always be done in terms of marketing LightWave, and more will be done. NewTek Europe is planning on holding a European user event at 3D Festival in Copenhagen this year with William Vaughan, Ben Vost and special guest speaker Emile Edwin Smith from Zoic Studios. We will be showing the final version LightWave 3D[8] for the first time in Europe and be holding our usual prize-givings and competitions along with food and drink for attendees.

We have further plans for marketing this year including user meetings in other countries in Europe, but these are still in the planning stages and it would be premature to discuss them here. For the time being, all users and dealers are invited to our user meeting in Denmark next month to see the future of LightWave and to meet representatives of both European and US NewTek offices.

B

Zafar Iqbal
04-02-2004, 04:34 AM
Cooool..

I was at the festival last year and saw William, but never got a chance to actually talk with him :(

I'm looking forward to see you guys here :D

BeeVee
04-02-2004, 04:41 AM
Either today or Monday we will be putting a registration page up on our site, so that you can register to attend the user meeting. Make sure you find the time to introduce yourself this year Zafar! :)

B