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View Full Version : Fprime on the mac rocks !!!



Pooka
03-16-2004, 03:34 AM
Just recieved my Fprime Mac licence and I'm already in love.

I just opened a scene with chrome and reflexions
and pushed the FPrime window without any tweaking and the result is phenominal:
22 passes in 5 minutes.
With classic F9 it was about 20 minutes low AA

I work with a G5, dual 2 Ghz, 2Gb memory
and system 10.3.3

worley Changed my life completely

Orange
03-16-2004, 03:57 AM
Thanks for sharing. Keep us inform on fprime mac details. Think there is a 2 week delay on new fprime orders right now.

murdoch
03-16-2004, 06:08 AM
Pooka,
how many plugins loaded for you. the manual says 7, i only got 6. wonder if i'm missing something.

very nice image btw

Pooka
03-16-2004, 06:17 AM
Hi murdoch,

I noticed the same, but everything seems to be working well.

I have 3 buttons: FPrime, FPrime render and FPrime refresh and also a master Plug-in, so I don't see any difference with the online manual.

js33
03-16-2004, 01:44 PM
Pooka,

Cool T-bucket. I have been using FPrime (PC version) since Friday night and yes it does rock.

Cheers,
JS

blabberlicious
03-16-2004, 02:10 PM
Pooka BTW when did you place order?

I'm Still waiting - ordered on Thursday

jro2a
03-16-2004, 02:15 PM
The glass (windshield) and side glass does NOT look right!!!
The back-ground sky is not showing through correctly.
Does the scene render like this in LightWave too?????

Jim R.

jro2a
03-16-2004, 02:31 PM
The sky back-ground is brighter going through the glass.... Glass
does Not add light....

js33
03-16-2004, 02:35 PM
Yeah I just noticed that as well.
What's up with the windshield?

Cheers,
JS

IgnusFast
03-16-2004, 06:14 PM
It says FPrime supports background images, but it looks like in this case it doesn't. Or something else is going on. It's just rendering the sky as a blue gradient (or flat color, it's hard to tell)....

TSpyrison
03-16-2004, 06:49 PM
That is a kick *** model BTW...

themaxx
03-16-2004, 08:23 PM
nice image!

i've had about 5 minutes to play with fprime (mac) and i love it already. thanks worley! (i thought it said 7 plugins loaded.)

jmcinnis
03-16-2004, 11:44 PM
If only FPrime supported Sasquatch, I'm sure those would be fuzzy dice!

brayne
03-17-2004, 12:02 AM
I put my order in 3 days ago, so I've got quite a wait.

This might seem like a silly question, but in the days of computers and modern technology and stuff, why does it take 2 weeks to fulfill a download order?

Bruce

themaxx
03-17-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by brayne
This might seem like a silly question, but in the days of computers and modern technology and stuff, why does it take 2 weeks to fulfill a download order?

if that's a silly question, i'm a silly guy.

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 12:31 AM
They only work with 5 people at Worleys.. It's a real small company. Maybe they don't have an automatic pay-method..

For example, they have to put in all the banccard numbers by hand, seek out the serials by hand, and post mails by hand.. imagine this all would take 5 minutes to accomplish.. well I registered the first day and allready own FPrime.. but my invoice numer was somewhere in the 7000. If there are really like 10000 orders the first day, you can imagine the queue..

Also... some automatic payment equipment and transfers are far too expensive to buy for such a small company.. the investment would be too big.. Now with FPrime they probably can afford it, but they are too late :) an H-bomb just hit their orderlist..

Pooka
03-17-2004, 02:05 AM
The glass seems not to be an FPrime issue.
I have exactly the same error with the native Lightwave render. :mad:
Somebody knows what the problem is?

Oddgit
03-17-2004, 04:35 AM
is raytrace transparency ticked to on? i know it is pretty simple but hey it may be the issue

brayne
03-17-2004, 04:44 AM
They only work with 5 people at Worleys.. It's a real small company. Maybe they don't have an automatic pay-method..

For example, they have to put in all the banccard numbers by hand, seek out the serials by hand, and post mails by hand.. imagine this all would take 5 minutes to accomplish.. well I registered the first day and allready own FPrime.. but my invoice numer was somewhere in the 7000. If there are really like 10000 orders the first day, you can imagine the queue..

Also... some automatic payment equipment and transfers are far too expensive to buy for such a small company.. the investment would be too big.. Now with FPrime they probably can afford it, but they are too late an H-bomb just hit their orderlist..

I think under these circumstances they should have got someone else to manage this aspect of the business for them.

Then again, with a product like this, and no competition, I think they realise we will wait as long as they need!

TyVole
03-17-2004, 05:15 AM
If Worley's smart enough to develop FPrime, he should also be smart enough to develop an automated payment/download system. :)

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by TyVole
If Worley's smart enough to develop FPrime, he should also be smart enough to develop an automated payment/download system. :)

Yes, I thought that as well! But maybe there is more paperwork or other stuff that comes in.. We also automate our sales, but still there is paperwork.. And imagine being optimistic and say that they spend a minute / customer, they can still manage 60 orders an hour/person..

but I don't know either why it takes so long.. Cheer up!! I've got it (rub rub :p ) and the rest will get it.. And oh yeah.. IT IS REALLY sweet.. (rub rub again :p )

riki
03-17-2004, 06:21 AM
I think even I could build an automated system. If it's just crunching numbers it can't be that hard. Anyway no stress I don't mind waiting. Just think about all the time I'll be saving in the future :)

Activator
03-17-2004, 09:24 AM
OK. A little dissapointed... I can't seem to get ANY basic transparency to show in FPrime.

I made a simple flat white surface and then set the transparency to 80 percent, but FPrime doesn't show the transparency. There are NO shaders or reflections, just a simple surface.

That's a pretty big bummer.

It's amazing that it WILL show very complex image maps and even use the image maps to create transparency, but it won't show a simple transparent object.

Am I doing something wrong?

nawDsign
03-17-2004, 09:27 AM
Seems like everyone is enojoying fprime for the most part... So I say forget the realviz deal.. pack my LW 8 with fprime!! I'll be a happy camper!
:D :D :D :D

CoryC
03-17-2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Activator
OK. A little dissapointed... I can't seem to get ANY basic transparency to show in FPrime.

I made a simple flat white surface and then set the transparency to 80 percent, but FPrime doesn't show the transparency. There are NO shaders or reflections, just a simple surface.

That's a pretty big bummer.

It's amazing that it WILL show very complex image maps and even use the image maps to create transparency, but it won't show a simple transparent object.

Am I doing something wrong?

I'm not sure what you are doing wrong but FPrime will show transparency. Can you give more details?

TyVole
03-17-2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Activator
Am I doing something wrong?

Do you have "Ray trace transparency" on?

Activator
03-17-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by TyVole
Do you have "Ray trace transparency" on?

No raytrace options are on at all. No plugins. Camera set to enhanced low.

I have a basic object. I surfaced it with the "glass inside" preset surface (which uses no shaders).

The object renders transparent with an F9 render but FPrime renders as a black solid. (Object is over a backdrop image.)

One other thing: I noticed that an "FPrime" shader is added to the object surface (glass inside) once I try to render with FPrime. Normal?

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 09:49 AM
You still have to manually flag the raytrace settings in your render settings.. they DO affect FPrime.

And yes, the FPrime shader is normal. It's neccesary to show the surfaces in FPrime.

Activator
03-17-2004, 09:56 AM
I've tried it with the raytrace options checked, un-checked, one raytrace option on/off at a time, every combination. No luck.

Frustrating.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 09:57 AM
You don't have to have raytrace Transparency turned on to see it in FPrime. I just opened LW, loaded in the LW cow, set all the surfaces to transparent and it adjusted interactively. Give this a try and see what happens.

Yes, FPrime adds a shader to every surface.

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by CoryC
You don't have to have raytrace Transparency turned on to see it in FPrime. I just opened LW, loaded in the LW cow, set all the surfaces to transparent and it adjusted interactively. Give this a try and see what happens.

Yes, FPrime adds a shader to every surface.

Woops, my mistake.. Then it's not neccesary. Sorry..

But Speeking of shaders.. You don't happen to have any other shaders on you windshield except the FPrime shader? because FPrime does NOT support shaders.. as far as the manual says..

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:08 AM
OK.

I don't have ANY raytracing options checked in the Render Options pane.

Camera is set to Enhanced Low.

Loaded the "Juice Glass" from the LW objects file. It uses the basic inside_glass and outside_glass surfaces.

Hit F9 render, perfect transparent glass.

Hit FPrime. Solid BLACK object with highlights.

Play with the transparency while FPrime is open, it refreshes but nothing changes. I CAN change colors, textures, etc and it'll update, but transparency ain't workin'.

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 10:14 AM
very very weird.. try reinstalling the plugin..

Just tried your juiceglass.

Just loaded it like a normal object, just changed the backdrop to a gradient to see the glass.. works perfect in FPRime.. transparency is OK with me..

Something is wrong with your FPrime..

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:20 AM
Here's the FPrime render of the LW Cow with his hide 80 percent transparent.

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:21 AM
Here's the Cow rendered with F9 at the exact same settings.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 10:25 AM
well, that is not correct and not what I am getting. For a test, what does it look like if you render through the non-interactive renderer.

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:26 AM
That IS the FPrime full render (not the interactive render).

I'm trying a re-install of the plug.

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:29 AM
Re-install seems to have fixed it!

Doing more testing...

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:31 AM
Ah, OK.

The PROBLEM IS... the backdrop IMAGE.

With a gradient backdrop, I get transparency. With a background IMAGE loaded, I get the black blob.

Not good.

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:34 AM
THAT'S why the glass in Pooka's car image isn't showing the sky!!

Not good, not good.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 10:48 AM
OK, I was able to duplicate it. I believe this is a limitation of the SDK. If you use image world, transparencies will show up or you could map your background to a polygon in the background. You could also combine the 2 in post.

Activator
03-17-2004, 10:49 AM
OK. So, in conclusion.

Transparency works great in FPrime, interactively, and looks fantastic.

EXCEPT if you have a background IMAGE in the Scene/Backdrop/Compositing pane!

Then, the OBJECT will still be "transparent", though it is about 50 percent LESS transparent than in an F9 render and, it does NOT show the background IMAGE through itself.

Dissapointing. This leaves FPrime good for checking things out quickly, but NOT for final renders IF there is a background image and transparent objects.

Obviously this is not a problem for every project, but will be a hinderance on many.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 11:04 AM
I found another way to get an image in there. Add a Textured Environment to the background and use an image map. The image isn't a tight fit like setting it in the compositing tab but it might work for some situations.

Activator
03-17-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by CoryC
I found another way to get an image in there. Add a Textured Environment to the background and use an image map. The image isn't a tight fit like setting it in the compositing tab but it might work for some situations.

Yep, that works!

Nice.

There's always an answer. :)

Much happier now. :rolleyes:

Nigel Baker
03-17-2004, 11:31 AM
As they ask at Worley Labs, Please be patient .... believe you me it is worth .. still trying to get my head around it all ...

Nigel Baker
03-17-2004, 11:33 AM
Does anyone know if there is an issue with FPrime and displacement maps ...

blabberlicious
03-17-2004, 11:39 AM
So, does this mean Frprime is a render engine that's optimised for the Mac Chip?

Pinch me, I must be dreaming....

Isn't that against the law?

CoryC
03-17-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Nigel Baker
Does anyone know if there is an issue with FPrime and displacement maps ...

No issues that I have seen, just a few things to remember to do. #1, make sure Subdivision Order is not set to 'Last' for Sub-D models. #2 - Make sure you add FPrime to the displacement list.

IgnusFast
03-17-2004, 12:11 PM
Kinda what I figured (with reference to the car image)... You guys should definitely send this stuff on to Worley-- he seems to be REALLY on the ball with explanations and bug fixes...

CoryC
03-17-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by IgnusFast
Kinda what I figured (with reference to the car image)... You guys should definitely send this stuff on to Worley-- he seems to be REALLY on the ball with explanations and bug fixes...

Don't worry about that. He is omnipresent. Personally I believe he has cloned himself a few times like the movie Multiplicity.

pdrake
03-17-2004, 12:58 PM
i ordered a few days ago. w00

can you please try skytracer. my main project uses it and it would be great to see fprime working with it.

thanks.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 01:15 PM
Directly, no Skytracer doesn't work. BUT...

You can use Render Warp Images' in the Skytracer settings. That will output a scene and object that does work. So if you aren't animated Skytracer you will be all right, even with transparency.

Ge4-ce
03-17-2004, 02:15 PM
Sorry but.. I tested it, and it does work fine with me..

Skytracer does work. Although I must admit that I haven't tested it fully.

CoryC
03-17-2004, 02:19 PM
What did you do to get it to work? I still have 1.00 on the laptop so maybe that is the deal.

murdoch
03-17-2004, 04:07 PM
Does anyone know if there is an issue with FPrime and displacement maps ...

the only issue i've seen is that an 'after bones' displacement will give a different displacement compared to 'last'.

Darth Mole
03-17-2004, 04:16 PM
No Skytracer does not work with FPrime, because it's a post-process filter. It works with texure-mapped spheres or cubes - any solid objects - but not Sky Tracer as a separate plug-in.

Ge4-ce
03-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Darth Mole
No Skytracer does not work with FPrime, because it's a post-process filter. It works with texure-mapped spheres or cubes - any solid objects - but not Sky Tracer as a separate plug-in.

I'm sorry but.. how do you explain this then? (see attachment)

Worley said it's officially NOT supported, but it does work.

Pooka
03-18-2004, 01:59 PM
I agree,

It's not very editable,
but it does at least something :p

Darth Mole
03-18-2004, 02:18 PM
Ah. Yes. Well this morning all I was getting was a black screen. This evening, I'm getting rendered skies. Actually, I find that you can edit it as much as you like - as long as you keyframe the camera or refresh the FPrime window. As far as I can tell it works absolutely fine... and it's pretty quick too.

I apologise profusely, and unreservedly.

Ge4-ce
03-18-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Darth Mole

I apologise profusely, and unreservedly.

No apology neccesary.. You indeed have to twiggle around a bit with the settings and hit the refresh button before you see anything..

A black screen in LW can confuse even the diehard LW-fanatics...

dmg3d
03-18-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by CoryC
No issues that I have seen, just a few things to remember to do. #1, make sure Subdivision Order is not set to 'Last' for Sub-D models. #2 - Make sure you add FPrime to the displacement list.

What if your using Morph Mixer and Bones in one object? What would you set the sub order to then? (I've always set it to last) "After Bones" (pg 9.14)?

Oddgit
03-18-2004, 06:24 PM
i got it! i got it! i got it!!!

well osrt of, i still need to get the auth number, i got the serial number and the download but...
arrrgh!
its like getting a present that requires batteries and it didnt come with batteries and all of the stores that have batteris are closed! :/

IgnusFast
03-18-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Oddgit
i got it! i got it! i got it!!!

well osrt of, i still need to get the auth number, i got the serial number and the download but...
arrrgh!
its like getting a present that requires batteries and it didnt come with batteries and all of the stores that have batteris are closed! :/

When did you order?

Oddgit
03-18-2004, 06:29 PM
my order invoice came in on march 12

IgnusFast
03-18-2004, 06:32 PM
SO CLOSE!!!! I ordered at just after midnight on Friday (okay, so really that's Saturday morning, but...)

Should be within 24 hours, then!!!!

Triple G
03-20-2004, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by dmg3d
What if your using Morph Mixer and Bones in one object? What would you set the sub order to then? (I've always set it to last) "After Bones" (pg 9.14)?

"After Motion" is the last option before "Last", and seems to be working fine in the tests I've done so far. :)