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RayLarson
03-16-2003, 11:03 AM
Can anyone give me the steps, start to finish, for doing a time code burn from Ted. I beleive it can be done thru Aura but I tried the steps and I can't get it to work. Maybe someone who has done it can explain it more clearly to me.

Thanks

RayLarson
03-19-2003, 07:35 AM
Doesn't anyone have an answer to this question??

RomainR
03-19-2003, 08:30 AM
In aura you use the TC generator to generate you TC. Save it out as a RTV file. Then you slap it on your timeline as an overlay.

RayLarson
03-19-2003, 10:00 AM
I guess it's the stuff between "Use the TC Generator "and "slap it
into the Timeline as an overlay" that is confusing me.

Jim Capillo
03-19-2003, 11:25 AM
Generate time code on a black screen that is long enough to cover the length of your production.

Save it out as an RTV clip.

Drop it on the timeline, enable overlay, slide it to coincide with the beginning of your program material and you should be good to go !

:cool:

RayLarson
03-19-2003, 11:30 AM
If I am understanding, stretch layer in aura to coincide with actual production, apply filter, export as an RTV and overlay....sounds simple enough...I will give it a try tonight. I was trying to overlay it on the actual video clip and it was taking forever....(even longer than that)...This sould work great...I'll let you know guys....Thanks for all your help.

vip3dran
03-19-2003, 02:25 PM
Raymond,

In Aura, after you drag out the layer to the desired length, be sure to 'make anim' and select the entire clip (ctrl-S) before applying the Timecode writer filter.

When saving your clip out, be sure to set the background to 'none' and export sequence (as RTV) with alpha. When you bring into TED, turn 'overlay' on.

Just a little more help in case you're not that familiar with Aura.

:D

vip3dran
03-19-2003, 03:22 PM
After posting my last reply, went into Aura to mess with the Timecode writer and discovered a possible glitch.

set-up project 720x486, no fields with frame rate of 30.00

Set timecode writer to Timecode:current - "use Timecode settings from Aura's project"

dragged layer out to 2 seconds
and after applying the TC, found that it applied each incremented TC position to 2 frames (meaning that for the 2sec clip, only went up to 00:01.00)

am I going goofy??

:confused:

RayLarson
03-19-2003, 03:46 PM
Well, I haven't had a chance to try what you told me....so I am not too sure how goofy you are. I know I have had sleepless nights trying to get this to work. Nothing in the manual, no one, except for a very few with info on how to do this, most important of functions. I have a very important time code burn I have to get out the door tomorrow so I will have to burn some midnight oil on this one. If you can figure the glitch out, let me know. My clip is 37 minutes long and I have to have 5 copies out the door for customer edits so I am hoping to get it all to work. Keep me posted, I really appreciate your help. Maybe we can write this all up later as a Toaster Tutorial. :rolleyes:

RayLarson
03-20-2003, 12:58 PM
Well, I got it done. Thanks for all your help. It is important to select "field" when setting it up, otherwise you get actual time and not time code. It is a rather lengthy process but effective for EDL's. For a 40 minute anim of Time Code takes about 1 hr to render, then about 20 minutes to save as an RTV. Once dropped on the time line it is totally frame accurate and can be removed for the final edit.

Now to learn more about Aura to do cool text things....anybody with tips or tricks let me know. I need all the help I can get.

tmon
03-20-2003, 02:58 PM
I say squeak the wheel for this feature in "Features Requests."

In the meantime, I haven't done this, but how about setting up a "box wipe" (I guess it would have to be created) and then shooting the TEd timecode box with a camera, setting up a manual wipe via the switcher and recording the output to tape?

This is how I used to do it in the old days with tape decks without built in character generator output...

RayLarson
03-20-2003, 04:26 PM
Actually, it should be a features request. I will post it there. Actually, if I could use DV I would just keep a 2 hr file on the HD but since it needs to be an .rtv I don't want to use the space.
Once it's saved you can use it on anything it's just storing it. Would be nice to have the capability to get it right from the time line.

Hear that Paul ??

Jim Capillo
03-20-2003, 05:00 PM
Can you burn it to a DVD and just reload it when you need it ?

RayLarson
03-20-2003, 05:20 PM
I beleive a 2 hour rtv would exceed the storage of a 4.7gb DVD. If you could get overlay on a compressed format it would be better. Alpha channel with .avi's would be the answer. Actually a way to get the time code on the output as a user selectable item would be idea. (HEAR THAT NEWTEK)

ScorpioProd
03-22-2003, 12:18 AM
If you're doing short projects I guess this could work...

Frankly, for me with 90% of my projects two hours long, this is simply NOT a practical solution at all.

Use more than half my storage wasted for RTV+alpha of TC, I think not.

This is a function that clearly should be integrated in TEd as other NLE companies do, even in real-time... Not using any file at all, but an actual function in the NLE.

As a workaround, why not simply ignore the alpha channel and render the TC clip out to DV format and simply luma key it over your project?

Original1
03-22-2003, 08:03 AM
the Toaster Edit and DDR modules must use something to update the TimeCode Counter, Is there no way of Dynamically updating an Overlay via ToasterScript?

SBowie
03-22-2003, 08:11 AM
I don't see any reason something along this line can't be included as a Toaster-generated source, in much the same fashion as the live audio scope within the Switcher. Probably just a matter of the appropriate someone finding the time, given the current push to [3].

ScorpioProd
03-23-2003, 01:03 AM
Agreed, I would definately expect it in a future version of Toaster, too late for Toaster[3], but that's not the end of the Toaster line by any means.

Especially when the competition is featuring it now as a major feature... Canopus EDIUS prominantly features TC burn in real-time. And Vegas will render it.

Paul Lara
03-23-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd
...too late for Toaster[3], but that's not the end of the Toaster line by any means.

Well, remember the launch of Video Toaster [3] will also see numerous updates along the way, as were enjoyed with Toaster [2].

SBowie
03-23-2003, 12:43 PM
Hey - where's Da pooch!

Paul Lara
03-23-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by SBowie
Hey - where's Da pooch!

His agent was demanding residual payments per avatar, so he's been removed until we can reach an agreement. :D

Scott Bates
03-23-2003, 10:36 PM
... or until he quits knocking over his water bowl, whichever comes first. :D

Paul Lara
03-24-2003, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd
Canopus features TC burn in real-time. And Vegas will render it.

Well, it's not "tightly integrated" but there sure is a simple way to accomplish this...today.

With many thanks to Steve Bowie (http://www.videotoasterworx.com), Toronto's Toaster Guru, he has thoughtfully provided us all with a (relatively) small compressed AVI file that is a one-hour SMPTE time-code overlay for your project!

After you download it here (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/counter.zip) you can place it in your project, making sure to highlight it and press 'g' to expand it to full length, then position it properly and ...play.

RayLarson
03-24-2003, 08:18 AM
Steve's file works great but I sure could use a 2 hour version...what are the chances??

Thanks Steve.....

SBowie
03-24-2003, 09:19 AM
I'll see what I can do about that, Ray.

Keith Gandy
03-25-2003, 01:26 AM
Or what about a tutorial for those of us in PAL? :D Then I can generate my own according to need.

SBowie
03-25-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by RayLarson
Steve's file works great but I sure could use a 2 hour version...what are the chances?? NewTek received the second anim (1:00:00:00 to 2:00:00:00) last night, so Paul will likely put it somewhere for download today.

SBowie
03-25-2003, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by Keith Gandy
Or what about a tutorial for those of us in PAL? :D Then I can generate my own according to need. Sure, but I have to offer a few warnings. The reason I decided to do this to help out, rather than simply post a tutorial, is that the project will tax even a very powerful system, and would likely frustate the heck out of many users.

First, my object was to get a small resolution. The project size was 176X40. This brings up the subject of file format. A number of 'save modes' impose their own resolution restrictions. RTV, for example, insists on saving at video res, centering the smaller project on the window. This results in a huge file, basically like storing an hour-long uncompressed video ... not useful, in my view.

I tried a variety of formats I thought would work, but rejected them for one or another reason (some looked awful, others threw the frame rate off, etc.), settling finally on an AVI in Cinepak format.

Having settled that, in order to get the TC writer to work correctly, one has to have the project in fielded mode, and Field switched on in the filter. I really don't know what's up with that filter, but this was the only predictable way to get it to write timecode. I think it needs some work, for sure.

Then, I really didn't want the additional field digit to show in the final project. Split between fields in the output as it is, it never looks right on playback anyway; and, being the only element of each field that changes, it also occurred to me that leaving it in view could create field errors (depending on the Y position one places the anim in TEd.) Cutting it off by "Set"ting the filter in such a position that the field is outside the project window resolved these issues.

I used Arial as a font, sized of 36. This turned out useful, and appears quite nice, sharp and clear, in the output.

So basically, with those provisos, you just stretch out an anim layer to length, and render. Still, rendering even 1 hour, much less 2, mercilessly bogged down my dual Xeon 2.6 unit with a gig of RAM. It helped to run Aura without the Toaster, but in the end I rendered in 10 minute chunks, finally appending the finished projects to one another. (I would render and save ten minutes, then create another ten minute layer overlapping the last frame of the layer below as a guide and extending a further ten minutes, then delete the lower layer, and render.)

This is a much bigger job than one might expect, so if you do a PAL equivalent, you may want to zip it up and offer it to NewTek Europe :)

Scott Bates
03-25-2003, 09:35 AM
Your efforts are greatly appreciated Steve. :cool: I took a shot at this months ago but gave up because of the fielding and format issues, the time and system resources it took to do it and the final file sizes in my limited storage space.

SBowie
03-25-2003, 09:47 AM
Happy to help out, Scott. Truthfully, it was way more effort than it ought to be, which underscores the need for a live Window Dub 'filter' for the Switcher -- at least to me, something after the fashion of the Audio scope would be the best permanent solution.

tmon
03-25-2003, 02:16 PM
Steve,

Your contributions to this community are greatly appreciated.
Your tutorials, your participation in the forums and now this.

Thank you very much.

SBowie
03-25-2003, 03:29 PM
Thanks, Taiji. I suppose it's possible I simply have no life :-p

Paul Lara
03-25-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by SBowie
NewTek received the second anim (1:00:00:00 to 2:00:00:00) last night, so Paul will likely put it somewhere for download today.

It was posted last night in Video Toaster's Downloads folder (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/counter2.zip)

SBowie
03-25-2003, 09:00 PM
Thanks, Paul :)

RayLarson
03-26-2003, 06:46 AM
Steve,

Many thanks for making my job easier. Your files are going to be a huge help for me until the aliens give us timecode overlay from the timeline.

You do need to get a life

RuiFeliciano
03-27-2003, 07:29 AM
Encouraged by Steve's great workaround for this shortcoming from Ted, I created a PAL version of a 1 hour long Timecode small video to be used as a overlay. Since I'm still a bit Aura-fobic I used After Effects for this. It was simply a matter of dropping an effect on the composition and waitting 34 minutes for the render (stupid AE does not take advantage of multi CPUS). This is what you could expect from using it:
www.isisds.com/Testes/TED_timecode.jpg

The hour-long video is just a 36Mb ZIP file (that decompresses to a 74Mb Cinepak video file). If anyone wants it just let me know where to upload it.

Again, I just used Steve's expertise and applied it to the benefict of PAL users that may have a need for this, if there's anything wrong, simply blame Steve :-)

Danner
03-27-2003, 08:34 AM
wonder if you could open several After effects instances and assign each one to a different processor, then render like it was a network render..

SBowie
03-27-2003, 08:41 AM
Hmmm - I wonder if the smaller size is completely due to the PAL frame rate. Can't think why else the NTSC version would be larger. Good job, Rui :)

RuiFeliciano
03-27-2003, 10:43 AM
Danner,

After Effects has a render engine that takes advantage of network rendering. I could not use that feature because the other PCs are rendering a LW job. I'm unaware if I can run multiple instances of on the same PC though. I believe I've read something about it somewhere I believe it involves some switch upon running it...(checks manual)...Yes, by running After Effects with the -m switch I can run multiple instances on the same PC. I can then have each instance render a piece of the entire video and that full advantage of the CPUs.

RuiFeliciano
03-27-2003, 11:17 AM
Steve,

Dunno if the difference is only due to the 5 frames less for each second. I completely relied on your work and didn't even test several codecs. I just did a few tests with the cinepack codec itself and used the maximum compression that looked good:

Compression Quality is 45%
Key Frame every 15 frames
Data Rate at 100Kb/s

Compression quality and data rate may be some of the differences (besides the missing 5 frames per second).

Again, thanks for your engenious solution, you're the one to blame :D

Keith Gandy
03-28-2003, 01:30 AM
Rui,

my PAL export was done on AE, but using the mpeg4 V1 setting. I set the rate at 188 and the finished filed is 16mb. Next, I will try it out on the VT2. So far, so good.

ScorpioProd
03-28-2003, 02:37 AM
Ah, the original "counter" file seems to be gone...

Is it at a different address?

SBowie
03-28-2003, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by Keith Gandy
Rui,

my PAL export was done on AE, but using the mpeg4 V1 setting. I set the rate at 188 and the finished filed is 16mb. Next, I will try it out on the VT2. So far, so good. I'll be interested to see how that works. I tried a wide variety of codecs trying to find a smaller one, including MPEG1, WMV and others. I found that some of them taxed the cpus overmuch to decode and overlay, while others drop frames (holding others longer) which isn't very useful when you're trying for a frame count.

RuiFeliciano
03-28-2003, 06:57 AM
For the moment I don't intend on making further tests myself. I believe that a roughly 100Mb file that contains 1 hour of video to be overlaid is ridiculously small enough and the cinepak codec does not tax the cpus that much. Overlaying that video did not have much of an impact, if any, on my PC's ability to handle video. I believe this is a simple enough task for Newtek to implement one of these days...heck, if you can blur a video in realtime you can as well overlay a text on it as well.

jeremy092288
11-04-2003, 06:43 AM
Did someone move this script the link is broken....Steve do you have the file somewhere else?

Scott Bates
11-04-2003, 09:21 AM
Try ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/ :
TCdf1.zip and TCdf2.zip

SBowie
11-04-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by sbates
Try ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/ :
TCdf1.zip and TCdf2.zip If you find that useful, you might also like the safe area overlay for VT[2/3] found in the Resources link of the VT[Worx] section of my website.

djlithium
11-05-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd
If you're doing short projects I guess this could work...

Frankly, for me with 90% of my projects two hours long, this is simply NOT a practical solution at all.

Use more than half my storage wasted for RTV+alpha of TC, I think not.

This is a function that clearly should be integrated in TEd as other NLE companies do, even in real-time... Not using any file at all, but an actual function in the NLE.

As a workaround, why not simply ignore the alpha channel and render the TC clip out to DV format and simply luma key it over your project?


This is what I have done in the past, a variant of it is to get a TC generator, and record 2 hours of it starting at 23:58:00 and let it run to 02:00:00 and captue the video coming in as DV. If you are lucky you can also record the TC audio with that so you can drive other devices like decks or err. motioncontrol rigs using the code from the generator which is now on your timeline and corresponds to your burn in.

I agree, and have repeatedly requested some kind of DSK module that does just this. It really should be an extension of the ToasterCG or perhaps the module on its own that functions like ToasterCG pullings is positional information from a DDR or VT-Edit or an external source such as DV TC coming in through the deckcontrol module.

Positional control over the display and color (maybe font?) would be excellent.