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View Full Version : 10.3.3 is out on software update!!!



mobilesurge
03-15-2004, 03:11 PM
Updating now. : ) Maybe this will fix our issues.

Andrew Sweet
03-15-2004, 03:15 PM
WORK?????, please say yes...

Scott Gammans
03-15-2004, 03:18 PM
Hah! Just in time for LightWave 8.

Darth Mole
03-15-2004, 03:29 PM
Downloading now... :-|

Andrew Sweet
03-15-2004, 03:32 PM
I will have to wait till morning!! only have modem here....How bigs the d/l, and I see it's not on there site yet!!!
Andy

ksdd
03-15-2004, 03:33 PM
Graph Editor *seems* to work fine. No crashes yet. VERY early on, though...

Darth Mole
03-15-2004, 03:39 PM
This sucker is over 58MB - man, I remember when a computer OS fit on a 5-inch diskette!

"Improved compatibility for third party applications" is one of the notes on the release list. here's hoping...

mobilesurge
03-15-2004, 03:49 PM
OpenGL speed seems improved. Scenes I could hardly scrub through play much faster now. The graph editor seems to work now, although I have only tried it on a few things.

Applications are launching much more quickly now. Seems promising so far.

Bring on LW8! : )

Dany
03-15-2004, 03:57 PM
Graph editor seems to be finally working!

riki
03-15-2004, 04:00 PM
Sweeeet, any other users to confirm this?

strongarm27
03-15-2004, 04:17 PM
Yep the test I used to crash the graph editor in
10.32 now works fine. The limitation of the
mouse meeting the edge of your screen is still
present. I have not done anything except this
yet but will be doing some heavy modeling
tonight.

strongarm27

Beamtracer
03-15-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by strongarm27
The limitation of the
mouse meeting the edge of your screen is still
present. What happens when the cursor moves to the edge of the screen?

Ge4-ce
03-15-2004, 04:42 PM
Did some graph editor stuff.. Works all right!!! great..

One bug down, ... a few more to go!

hey.. I just realise.. I CAN ANIMATE AGAIN!!! WHOE HOOOOOOWWW!!!!!


:D :D :D

Also apps and appearance seem snappier.. starting apps seems to go faster also..

Mail is up and running in less than 3 sec!!! that took at least 10 in 10.3.2!!!

ok.. this update is cool so far!!

Darth Mole
03-15-2004, 04:43 PM
Yep, the Graph Editor is back :-) Seems to work fine now.

You still need the tablet/mouse workaround, though.

policarpo
03-15-2004, 04:49 PM
Graph Editor not crashing here either...but the Tablet setting still needs to be set in Modeler so you Move/Drag selections don't freak out.

:-)

You see...it was Apple's fault all along you guys. :-)

Dany
03-15-2004, 04:52 PM
Worley plugins as Sasquatch, G2 ... had a problem in Panther of crashing when using the sliders in requesters to set values.
With OS 10.3.3, it looks as the issue is fixed!

Scott Gammans
03-15-2004, 04:54 PM
I can add my observations to the chorus... Graph Editor fixed but you still need the tablet workaround. And yes, I am also percieving slightly faster application startup and OpenGL performance. Kewl.

Beamtracer
03-15-2004, 05:10 PM
I wonder if this means the "patch" for Lightwave 7.5 that was announced some weeks ago will not be needed?

fabmedia
03-15-2004, 05:23 PM
Does anyone ever defragment their hard drive? IF so, what do you use? I'm using Norton's V8.

Any problems?

meanlebh
03-15-2004, 05:31 PM
do does this mean that I can finally install that 10.3 cd that I have in my drawer?!?! ...please say that it is now safe, it has been killing me to just look at it all this time :D

Beamtracer
03-15-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by strongarm27
The limitation of the mouse meeting the edge of your screen is still present. Does anyone know what strongarm27 meant by this? Up until now I haven't used Lightwave with Panther, so I'm not familiar with the problem that occurs when you move your cursor to the edge of the screen.

I'm curious to know what this problem might be, before installing Panther.

meanlebh
03-15-2004, 05:46 PM
I think that he just means that in "tablet" mode the mouse stops moving when it hits the edge of the screen as if you were actually using a tablet, so if you are using a tablet, this isn't really anything new....But maybe I misunderstood what he meant as well.....

fabmedia
03-15-2004, 05:46 PM
I can still hardly scrub (only every 1 in 150 frames) AND I stilll have the beamtracer thingy going on...

joao
03-15-2004, 06:19 PM
oh great!!
but... i spend 95% of my time modelling....
and that tablet thing..... so fustrating.

the thing is.. i don't see why it shouldn't be relatively easy for newtek to fix it. Since it's happened twice before.
I remember having that problem in LW6pointsomething (still in OS9.. i think). And once in osx ( i think.....). Well. I know its not the first time i had to turn "tablet mode" on......
Maybe Newtek just wants us all to use tablets??!!

j.

murdoch
03-15-2004, 06:26 PM
i love my tablet :)

kief
03-15-2004, 07:19 PM
graph editor works!!!!! thats enough to hold me til 8!

kief

strongarm27
03-15-2004, 07:23 PM
Ok I spoke to soon. I had to turn tablet mode
off, dah? It doesn't jump around anymore like
it did when you clicked in the window. I have
a ati 9600pro card so the drivers seem to be
fixed so you can turn off tablet mode in lightwave
and modeler but it still wont continue your
turning of a object past the edge of the monitor
like it did before 10.3. The dialog sliders seem to
work.

some one else needs to test with a different card.

strongarm27

brayne
03-15-2004, 08:13 PM
Yep, graph editor working for me too.

Hooray!

meanlebh
03-15-2004, 08:32 PM
I Just braved it and updated to panther finally.... everything seems to be working for me too, and I agree on the tablet thing....working for me on a 9600 as well...this is good news :)

toby
03-15-2004, 09:10 PM
This is great news, I don't even have a G5 or Panther. Just glad it's finally over, and I can get a G5 with no worries - if they would just give us the new one!

Come on! $3K for a computer that came out 6 months ago, and will drop to $2500 at any time now?

zander
03-15-2004, 09:41 PM
The tablet mode thing is kind of a pain in the butt. But this discussion got me thinking. Under OS 9, there were some extensions that let the mouse wrap around the screen... If you move your cursor off the right side of the screen it appears on the left side of the screen.

Anyway, I found this software (which incidently has not update since Jan 2003.) However, it seemed to sort of work (after about 5 minutes testing on my part.)

It seemed to work okay when you move the cursor off the screen slowly. Moving quickly causes some jumps...

http://dcs.digicow.net/wraparound/

Beamtracer
03-15-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by toby
Just glad it's finally over, and I can get a G5 with no worries - if they would just give us the new one!
It seems likely that the next model G5s actually need the 10.3.3 update, so this update had to come first.

Blackeye
03-16-2004, 12:47 AM
:) :) :) :) :)

I'm glad that's over...

vnnt
03-16-2004, 02:05 AM
Installed the update. Graph editor seems to be working, meaning it has not crashed when you simply mouse over the window. Have not tested extensively.

Other bug, the tablet mode one is still present, although it seems safe to switch back to mouse mode in layout, my screen will jump when first manipulating the controls, but then they will function properly afterwards. Its annoying, but its 'workable', modeler however still suffers from the tablet mode drawback, i set the perspective view to the lower left so the controls are pretty much in the center of the screen, that way you get the most screen real estate in all directions, annoying, but workable. I

ts good to hear the graph editor is functioning, I had a pretty tight deadline to meet with a project and was forced to go between my laptop running to use the graph editor and re load the scene on my g5 to do more tweaking. looks like that wont be the case anymore.

Jimzip
03-16-2004, 03:32 AM
Originally posted byfabmedia
Does anyone ever defragment their hard drive? IF so, what do you use? I'm using Norton's V8.


You don't need to defragment your drives in OS X thanks to the file system and the way OS X behaves.

Thanks zander! That could be very helpful.

Jimzip :D

Beamtracer
03-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Jimzip
You don't need to defragment your drives in OS X thanks to the file system Not true. The hard drives on standard Macs are formatted in HFS+ format, the same as they were in OS9. Nothing changed with the drives.

Maybe you're thinking of the UNIX file system, called UFS. It doesn't need defragging.

With OS X, you do have the option to format your drive in UNIX UFS format, but I wouldn't recommend doing it at this stage, unless Apple makes it their standard file format in the future.

Haven1000
03-16-2004, 06:25 AM
I think you'll find that 10.3 does defrag on the fly with files over 20 meg, you can turn it off but you'll need the dev tools

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668

Tony3d
03-16-2004, 06:36 AM
Is Newtek ever going to fix the Lscript issue? I use load object into layer, and save layer as object religiously. This is the main reason I don't use 7.5C. I think this is the single biggest drawback to 7.5C.

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 06:42 AM
I would like to think that this is the sort of thing that would be addressed in the 7.5d patch.

riki
03-16-2004, 06:46 AM
I'm praying that they tested new features like Incremental Saver on the Mac.

Tony3d
03-16-2004, 06:59 AM
Yes, but I haven't heard a thing about 7.5d since they first announced it. I believe Newtek really needs to fix this major issue because it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth about upgrading to Lightwave 8! Not to mention the fact that the manual will cost you $79.00 bucks. Oh I know many people can live with the PDF, but if we keep letting this sort of thing happen what will we be left with 5 years from now? Perhaps modeler and Lightwave will be seperate admissions? I'm sorry but a $500.00 upgrade in my opinion constitues a paper hands on manual. These PDF's are just another way Corporate America can save a buck, and who looses you and me, but people just accept it like a new feature. Crazy!

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 07:08 AM
Having just watched a news report on how the Sumatran Tiger is facing extinction, partly due to logging operations for the paper industry I am willing to forgo the paper manual if in the long run such beautiful creatures are saved. Any way the online help files published along with 7.5c have replaced my manual, much easier to search etc.

Tony3d
03-16-2004, 07:28 AM
I wouldn't blame the problems with animal extinction on the printing of books. What about paper plate's, cups, flyer's Printshop, calendars, boxes, party favors, packing material, homes, maybe we just shouldn't build anymore homes! Sorry, but this issue of PDF's is just something that people have let happen, and business has jumped on another way to rape us when we aren't looking.

dmg3d
03-16-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Does anyone know what strongarm27 meant by this? Up until now I haven't used Lightwave with Panther, so I'm not familiar with the problem that occurs when you move your cursor to the edge of the screen.

I'm curious to know what this problem might be, before installing Panther.

In Modeler (set to Tablet mode), when you try to rotate, move or zoom in/out an object in the perspective window, your limited by the edge of the screen. As you click and drag and your cursor hits the edge of the screen, you stop... and you have re-click and drag for the selected action... a bit of a hassle.

One thing that I don't like... that I haven't heard anyone else bring up... is that the cursor remains as crosshairs, regardless of the tool chosen.

Anyone else have this?

-Dave

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 07:46 AM
If Newtek had pitched the price of the upgrade at $579 and included the manual I imagine that everyone would still pay for the upgrade anyway. Newtek can sell an upgrade at whatever price they can, At least by offering the upgrade without the manual you have a choice of paying for it or not. I imagine that if more software companies offered an manual-less option then many people would take that option, Sumatran Tigers or not.

Anyway I'm pleased that 10.3.3 is out and has cured the GE problem. Has any one noticed some slight double-vision on the grid in anti-alias mode?

Activator
03-16-2004, 08:08 AM
10.3.3 definitely fixes the graph editor.

One problem I'v enoticed immediately is that I CAN'T EJECT A CD! No way, no how. "Eject" removable media is broken in 10.3.3...

Apple's discussions are running like molasses on a sub-zero day... can't get any info.

Fix one thing, break another.

:(

EchoStation3TA
03-16-2004, 08:27 AM
There should be an eject icon next to the CD when you open the finder.

Mookie

Darth Mole
03-16-2004, 10:17 AM
You can also install an Eject menu next to the Monitors and Volume icons, top right.

Go to the root of your hard drive and open System: Library: CoreServices: Menu Extras. Inside that window, double-click on the icon called Eject.menu.

Now in ther menu bar, there's an Eject icon. Use it as a menu and choose the drive you'd like to eject.

meanlebh
03-16-2004, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by dmg3d
One thing that I don't like... that I haven't heard anyone else bring up... is that the cursor remains as crosshairs, regardless of the tool chosen.

Anyone else have this?

-Dave

Yeah, I have noticed the same issue since I finally upgraded to Panther last night...I thought maybe it was just my computer, but now I see that it isn't. it is annoying, but something that I guess I can live with for the time being, but I hope that it gets fixed in 8...

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by meanlebh
Yeah, I have noticed the same issue since I finally upgraded to Panther last night...I thought maybe it was just my computer, but now I see that it isn't. it is annoying, but something that I guess I can live with for the time being, but I hope that it gets fixed in 8...

try turning off fine detail cursor in display options, works for me

dmg3d
03-16-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by noiseboy
try turning off fine detail cursor in display options, works for me

:eek:
Oh mannnnn! To think I've been using it that way for the last few months. Crap.

Thanks.
Now how the hell did THAT get changed?

BTW, 10.3.3 did a little to help the erratic cursor behavior when the input device is set to mouse. You still have to be gentle when squeezing your mouse though :rolleyes:

-Dave

meanlebh
03-16-2004, 10:59 AM
Boy do I feel stupid :rolleyes: Thanks for the advice.

Activator
03-16-2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by EchoStation3TA
There should be an eject icon next to the CD when you open the finder.

I'm a Mac user for 18 years. When I say I've tried everything, I mean everything. :D

I've used EVERY trick in the book, and the CD just won't eject via software. (BTW, adding the "eject" icon in the menu bar is very neat!)

I'll have to do the old "re-start and hold the mouse button until the CD ejects" fix. If that doesn't work, then I'm in trouble!

Besides the LW graph fix, the Network browser is now incredibly fast, mounts the networked drive on the desktop, and even shows Windows drives without any help! Nice!

EchoStation3TA
03-16-2004, 12:44 PM
Activator,

On your behalf, I called AppleCare. They said they have a sure fix.

An Apple branded prybar.

:eek: :D

Rich

dfc
03-16-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Haven1000
I think you'll find that 10.3 does defrag on the fly with files over 20 meg, you can turn it off but you'll need the dev tools

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668

"journaling" is what you are referring to. It's enabled by default. This keeps a "log" of diskactivity and can help restore data in such cases as a power failure..etc..that happens during a write operation. It helps maintain your data integrity after a crash..etc. And, it also is what defrags files over 20 megs automatically. Drives initialized under Panther are now listed as "HFS+ [journaled]. btw: OSX supports many file systems..including UFS. (although they recommend using HFS+ for your sys drive).

You can enable or disable it at will using the "disk utility" (applications/utilities/disk utility). At the top of the menu you'll see an "enable journaling" button. If it's greyed out, it means journaling is already enabled. The "disable" journaling is under File menu of diskutility. "disable journaling".

As long as you keep plenty of free space on your OSX volume (and you "should") you should not have to worry about fragmentation.

dfc
03-16-2004, 12:55 PM
If the CD you have in your mac contains a disk image that you have launched...and is mounted on the desktop...the CD will not eject until you dismount the diskimage. If that's the case (it's just a guess), control click the drive icon of the disk image on your desktop and you should see a context menu that says unmount image.

After that's been unmounted..you can also control click the CD icon and eject it. (or just push the eject button and it will now work).

If there is something mounted or running off the CD..it won't eject in most cases until you stop or unmount what is running off the CD.

Like I said, just a guess. The icons for mounted diskimages...(looks like a small rectangle removable drive), sometimes easy to miss if your desktop is cluttered.

Activator
03-16-2004, 12:55 PM
New product: The Apple "iBar" Pry Bar!

Finally got it to eject with the restart-and-hold-the-mouse-button trick. What a PITA...

Now the CD drive seems to be working normally. Maybe it was just that particular CD? (Lightwave Magic)

One more nice thing with 10.3.3. My Mac now starts up in about 1/4 the time!

Thanks for the replies.

Beamtracer
03-16-2004, 01:25 PM
Even though LW7.5 is now functional under Panther, I think Newtek should release a patch to fix the remaining minor quirks. Only because the patch was already announced as a definite thing.

The manual... it may only be pre-orders of LW8 that only get the PDF manual. But you got other goodies like RealViz. Those who order LW8 after it is released may (or may not) get a paper manual, but will miss out on RealViz. I know which I'd prefer.

And yes, think of those poor Sumatran Tigers losing their forest!

The Hardcard
03-16-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by dfc
"journaling" is what you are referring to.... it also is what defrags files over 20 megs automatically....

Journaling and defragging are separate features, implemented separately and for separate purposes.

Andrew Sweet
03-16-2004, 02:38 PM
Avti *Then you'll know how the paperclip trick works then!!!!! this would have done it

Andy

-uK-

Mac oP for 12 years.

Brian Redoutey
03-16-2004, 02:43 PM
Hi. I'm just wondering what other bugs users have found to be fixed with LW 7.5c and 10.3.3, I"ve read the Graph Editor bug is fixed but anything else work or suddenly nto work?

I"d ask if 10.3.3 breaks the forthcoming panther patch but I'm sure NDAs keep anyone from speaking. Glad to know the GE works again though. :)

dmg3d
03-16-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Activator
New product: The Apple "iBar" Pry Bar!

Finally got it to eject with the restart-and-hold-the-mouse-button trick. What a PITA...

Now the CD drive seems to be working normally. Maybe it was just that particular CD? (Lightwave Magic)


I had the same problem after updating Panther... couldn't eject a CD (dual G4 MDD - and no hole for the paperclip!)

Just restarting (for the second time after 10.3.3 update) did the trick.

Maybe this only happens when updating while there's a CD currently in the drive...

-Dave

jeremyhardin
03-16-2004, 03:23 PM
GE crashes worse for me!! What am I doing wrong? I have:
Dual 2Ghz G5 1Gb Ram
10.3.3
Lightwave 7.5c
Tablet mode

Tried both with or without the hub, now instead of being able to see but not click the Graph Editor, every time I open it, instant crash!

Any ideas why?

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 04:23 PM
I'm not sure what to suggest only that I'm running an identical system to you and LW is running very sweetly with GE. After you upgraded to 10.3.3 did you do the repair permissions thing?

jeremyhardin
03-16-2004, 04:45 PM
um. i don't even know of what you speak, though i'm googleing it right now.

noiseboy
03-16-2004, 05:01 PM
use Disk Utility, select the HD and click the repair permissions button.Somewhere I've read that it should always be done after installing new software. I'm assuming that you could open GE (not necesarily use it ) before upgrading to 10.3.3.

jeremyhardin
03-16-2004, 05:13 PM
noiseboy-

right. but you were right and disk permissions, AND deleting my previous LW preference files solved the problem.

GE works! thanks and cheers.

Beamtracer
03-17-2004, 01:34 PM
It's always wise to Repair Permissions after every software install. Even Apple software. Most software screws up the permissions after being installed.

I'm glad Panther is now usable. I'm going to install it very soon.

NigelH
03-17-2004, 02:03 PM
Could anybody give a definitive description on the LW/Panther mouse problem and any other Panther related issues that are still open? I've done some preliminary testing with 10.3.3 and LW 7.5c installed on my G4 and while I've noticed some jumpiness when I first click and start dragging an object (in mouse mode), it seems quite workable.

However, I do the majority of my work on the G5 in 10.2.8, so I haven't dealt with any of the problems to any great extent. I'd LOVE to finally get the G5 running Panther, but I'd hate to give up a stable work environment. Have I missed anything major?

What's the final verdict?

Beamtracer
03-17-2004, 04:20 PM
Stand-alone 10.3.3 installer
Now released!

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/

Johnny
03-17-2004, 11:34 PM
Soon after beginning a screamernet session with my 10.3.3 setup, I noticed 2 things about the previews in the finder window;

1. sometimes I see purple streaking, and
2. if I keep the down arrow pressed, I no longer get that "flip book" effect in the space where the preview should be, where I previously did get that...on a Dual G5.

Anyone else?

J

Sjohnson4
03-18-2004, 08:06 PM
Well Im sorry guys I just don't get it.

I have the same problem in Modeler/Lightwave as I had before. In Modeler on first move of a point (cntl-t) the motion is uncontrollable. The point moves with great valicity. Do an "U" (undo) the point returns. And now it can be controlled properly.

This problem is also in LightWave with Objects. Move an object first time, out of control, move second or more, no problem.

This is on a Dual 800 G4 2 MB L3, with 768 MB SDRSM. Kensington roller-ball mouse with drivers. I have tried it without the drivers.

If there is something I can do to fix it please let me know.

Steve

brayne
03-18-2004, 08:12 PM
Yes, this is a second problem with LightWave and 10.3 that has NOT yet been rectified.

The workaround for this problem is to go to your General Options, and change your Input Device setting to Tablet instead of Mouse.

adream608
03-20-2004, 07:14 PM
i find double clicking resolves the jumpiness quite well, sudenly discovered it today and now everything is jump free.... first time in a LONG while

cheers

adream

Johnny
03-20-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by adream608
i find double clicking resolves the jumpiness quite well, sudenly discovered it today and now everything is jump free.... first time in a LONG while

cheers

adream

so, what are you saying? that before you try to move something, you double click, then try to move it?

J

adream608
03-20-2004, 08:05 PM
click once then on the second click hold and move... works for me, after months of frustration

dasher
03-21-2004, 10:37 PM
I ran the G.E. from a zip disk on an old G4.

mlinde
03-22-2004, 07:51 AM
Here's the long and short of repairing disk permissions on OS X.

As you all know, OS X is built on Unix. Unix is built as a multi-user environment from the ground up. One of the primary parts of this is file permissions. File permissions are, basically, a listing of who is allowed to do what with a file. There are three basic permissions, read (r) write (w) and execute (x). Files have execute permissions because in unix, everything, even a program, is a file or made up of files. The second component of permissions is users & groups. Users and groups can have different permissions for the same file. Typically, a permissions layout looks like this:
-rwxr-xr-x
This listing reads something like this: the current user can read, write and execute this file, while the group that user belongs to can read and execute this file, and everyone else that isn't in that group can read and execute this file.

What happens when you install any software, is that the permissions are changed in the folders where the software installs its parts. Those permissions changes are not reset to their previous settings after an install, hence the "Repair Disk Permissions" utility.

toby
03-22-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by dasher
I ran the G.E. from a zip disk on an old G4.

HUH???

dasher
03-23-2004, 02:29 PM
I was replying to whether the graph editor runs with OS 10.3.3, from earlier posts about 10.3.3.

toby
03-23-2004, 09:11 PM
So when you say you ran it from a disk, you mean you ran LW, right? Sorry, it just sounded from way out there