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CoryC
03-12-2004, 09:44 PM
Here is my first test with FPrime.

The first iteration took about 20 seconds. I saved this after 2 minutes (27 iteration or so, it keeps working while you are setting the file name and type).

Reflections on, shadows on, 1 spotlight, 1 area light, A sub-D model with 35K or so polys. The computer is a 2.533 P4 with 1 Gb ram.

Psyhke
03-12-2004, 09:57 PM
Looks good! Clean. Do you have a texture on the floor of some kind I'm assuming..

If you feel like posting more...please do!:)

CoryC
03-12-2004, 10:00 PM
Yea, there is a couple of layered procedurals on the floor. There is also an HDR image being used in the reflections settings of a lot of surfaces.

It is unbelievable fast to set up scenes with FPrime!

roguenroll
03-12-2004, 10:07 PM
nice:) :)

hrgiger
03-12-2004, 10:18 PM
Are you using Radiosity at all? That's what I want to see...

CoryC
03-12-2004, 10:20 PM
Not in that scene but I am doing one right now

roguenroll
03-12-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by CoryC
Not in that scene but I am doing one right now
fire away, waiting patiently!!!

CoryC
03-12-2004, 10:34 PM
Here is some radiosity.

It is a sphere set to a yellowish tint. Luminosity is at 140%. On the FPrime setting it is Monte Carlo, intesity at 60% with an insane 10 bounces. This shot is after 2 minutes. You can see the scene clearly within 10-15 seconds. It changes a lot the first minute and then becomes a more gradual change. I am going to let this scene sit for a while and see how well it comes out. I can see it is clearer already.

CoryC
03-12-2004, 10:37 PM
It didn't take the image. Try again...

CoryC
03-12-2004, 10:42 PM
and here is 10 minutes...

roguenroll
03-12-2004, 10:57 PM
haha 10 bounces, thats great. what would that normally take about 24 years???? man fprime kicks butt:)

Psyhke
03-12-2004, 10:59 PM
Ahh. Sweetness. Though I'm sure LW set on 10 bounces (will it go that high?) would take quite some time to finish...and so 10 minutes seems actually very fast...I wonder if you reach a certain point with the level of bounces (especially on a shot like this) where you get a marked 'diminishing returns' effect. i.e. - I would take a guess that your image would look virtually identical if you set it on say even 2 or 3 bounces. I wonder what the FPrime speeds would be then. Would be interesting to test just for understanding how FPrime radiosity rendering 'scales' with respect to bounces/render times.

You don't mind if we live vicariously through you, do you?:) hehe

wacom
03-12-2004, 11:03 PM
CoryC- you just made me buy FPrime! Keep post'n these posts! As the winner of the first Fprime posts by a non insider you now have to stay up and make render after render to post here.

And you thought FPrime would free up some time...

No sleep for you! Keep posting!

CiaranM
03-12-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke
I wonder if you reach a certain point with the level of bounces (especially on a shot like this) where you get a marked 'diminishing returns' effect. i.e. - I would take a guess that your image would look virtually identical if you set it on say even 2 or 3 bounces.

A bit off topic here, but does anyone know if radiosity light intensity decays after each bounce or does it remain constant?

Nice render btw. Thanks!

CoryC
03-12-2004, 11:06 PM
And here is the longest I'll do with that test. 30 minutes and about 87 iterations.

I know there are a ton of people waiting to see how this works so I have no problem posting up my tests.

wacom
03-12-2004, 11:11 PM
CoryC- is that the actual rendered image size?

I want to ask to see a bench mark of the LW renderer Vs FPrime...but I have a feeling no ones going to want to test it for some time.:D

So many questions...

CoryC
03-12-2004, 11:12 PM
and don't forget that you can zoom in to a small section without moving the camera. I shrunk this shot by 50% in Photoshop.

I set the bounces to 2 and in 2 minutes it did 11 iterations vs 8 when it was set at 10 bounces.

roguenroll
03-12-2004, 11:17 PM
sweet!!!:) you keep posting, we'll keep drooling!:)

CoryC
03-12-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by wacom
CoryC- is that the actual rendered image size?

I want to ask to see a bench mark of the LW renderer Vs FPrime...but I have a feeling no ones going to want to test it for some time.:D

So many questions...

Those are actual renders. I just cropped out a large patch of blue from the guitar body. You just resize your window and Fprime renders to that size automatically. It works great with 2 monitors - having LW in one and FPrime in the other.

I know there is no way I will attempt a 10 bounce radiosity test with Lightwave. I did test the forklift when I first loaded it and the difference was 17 seconds for a no AA render in LW and a few seconds for the 1st iteration in FP.

Cman
03-12-2004, 11:26 PM
10 bounces...
Truly unbelieveable.

wacom
03-12-2004, 11:28 PM
I wasn't joke'n you when I said you made me buy FPrime! I've got the jpeg to prove that because of you I'm going to be one posh homeless person soon...roaming the streets with a copy of FPrime.

Keep the images come'n- it helps keep the debt guilt away!

Psyhke
03-12-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by CiaranM
A bit off topic here, but does anyone know if radiosity light intensity decays after each bounce or does it remain constant?

I personally don't know for sure. But thinking about it, I would venture to guess that the intensity would almost have to decay with each bounce, otherwise you would get a very overlit scene right? Without decay all your surfaces would essentially act like virtual mirrors bouncing the light all over the place at full intensity. Just my initial thoughts about it anyhow.

Oh yeah, and Cory: thanks for posting! It seems FPrime radiosity calculation scales very well with higher multiple bounces.

wacom
03-12-2004, 11:37 PM
Here is a link on CGtalk...there is an animation there! Looks Freak'n Prime...

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=129096&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

Hervé
03-13-2004, 01:55 AM
ha ha...there is a new upcoming renderer for maya called.... TURTLE...!!

ha ha ha how can you call a renderer turtle..?

I had a good laugh...:D :p :D

Gui Lo
03-13-2004, 02:41 AM
Thanks for the posts CoryC.
Still waiting for my download link.

Have you tried using the same scene with LW native renderer?
3 or 2 bounces to give us a comparative time and image qty.

Understand if you are busy with other trials :)


Gui Lo

VWTornado
03-13-2004, 07:37 AM
OK 10 mins and it looked great from FPrime, but could you do a test with the same settings in Lightwaves renderer so we can compare render times? For me the whole point in considering an FPrime purchase is to considerably speed up render times.

Thanks

wacom
03-13-2004, 07:48 AM
I was just over in the some of the competing package forums seeing what people are saying about FPrime.

They are so clueless! They download the first video and keep saying "what's so special about that it's just...." but they don't even watch the whole first video let alone go and look at the radiosity renders.

For the ones with mental ray they seem to be shocked and in disbelief! "...I mean nothing is faster than MR right?"

Their loss my fellow LWers and our gain! Let the heads roll!

CoryC
03-13-2004, 08:34 AM
It was 2AM so I had to get some sleep. I don't think it helped much because all I deemed to be dreaming about all night long was using FPrime.

I haven't tried any comparison with LW's radiosity yet because LW is soooo slow and I didn't want to waste precious time last night. More and more people are getting their downloads so I'm sure it won't be long before comparison shots are up.

The one thing that you can't really see until you use FP is really how much faster the entire workflow is.

CoryC
03-13-2004, 09:06 AM
Here is the Skull Radiosity scene that comes with Newtek. I just loaded it and rendered.

CoryC
03-13-2004, 09:18 AM
oops. My bad. Lightwave's version there is interpolated, not Monte Carlo. I'll have to retest.

siproductions
03-13-2004, 11:02 AM
I kind of like the sharpness of the F-prime image myself. As long as it doesn't flicker. Keep them coming. :D I can't wait till I get my email from Worley.

CoryC
03-13-2004, 11:09 AM
There was an animation posted up at CGTalk that showed no flicker. I started to do a skull test with LW at monte carlo but after an hour and a half it was only on 3 of 9 passes so I aborted it out. I started up FPrime and at 15 minutes the image was pretty good. Just a little grain in the shadows. I'm going to let it run an hour and a half to see how clean it gets. Oh and it is set to 3 bounce vs. LW's 1 bounce.

CoryC
03-13-2004, 11:34 AM
Here is the skull scene from Fprime after 45 minutes with 3 bounces. I was going to compare it to LW's render but with 1 bounce, after 90 minutes LW was still on pass 3 of 9 and I didn't want to wait another 3+ hours. My first attempt was going to be 2 bounces for each but after an hour LW was still on 1 of 9 so that wasn't going to work.

lunarcamel
03-13-2004, 11:57 AM
I havent got my copy yet but I must say Im not impressed with any of these render times. Sounds like workflow is terrific though!

CoryC
03-13-2004, 12:03 PM
you probably have unrealistic expectations. You aren't going to get real time multi bounce radiosity. The interactive part is for setting up scenes, texturing, lighting, etc and the speed jump is huge. The render times are still better than the LW render for all but the simplist scenes that I have tried so far.

hrgiger
03-13-2004, 12:16 PM
lunarcamel, you definately have unrealistic expectations. Try setting Lightwave up with 10 bounce radiosity and call me next year when your render finishes....

siproductions
03-13-2004, 12:48 PM
Yeah I saw that animation CoryC I was pretty impressed with it.

And yes lunarcamel, I think you have unrealistic expectations. I mean just look at the render times CoryC listed. It is a big improvement. :)

lunarcamel
03-13-2004, 01:02 PM
Unrealistic - um no not really - Ive just been using other renderers lately - Vray and such - and it would blow you away compared to LWs renderer in terms of speed. I dont expect FPrime to be some sort of miracle but certainly its better then LWs stand alone - I can see that much ;) And for workflow my god it looks great!

I've been porting some of my LW scenes into MAX for rendering in Vray and it's absolutely ammazing. I hope FPrime is a step in the right direction for the future of LW rendering.

At this point I think us LW'rs have been left in the dark and any improvement is jaw dropping - especially this one.

hrgiger: You don't have to tell me about it - I wouldn't even bother with LW for that ;)

siproductions
03-13-2004, 01:40 PM
I don't know. The only other renderer I have used is blender's. I am just happy about F-prime :)

Flat
03-13-2004, 03:26 PM
Just ordered it myself, then I read about the bad news (noise, pixel aspect etc.).
I don't really mind the renderer actually.
What I wanted most was the real-time feedback on lighting & texturing.
If LW's engine is still better on some cases fine with me, after all it's still considered along the top 3 or 4 engines around, and rightly so (especially compared to Blender ! :rolleyes: ).
Just being able to *see* the scene almost in real time is such a tremendous progress !

End of rant, thanks to the lucky few who posted info, keep em comin' !

Phil, patiently waiting his prime.