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stoehr
03-13-2003, 11:42 PM
Hey! So I have a character I'm painting in Aura, and I'm editing the UV's after building it in Lightwave. I'm currently in the texturing process.
Let me know your thoughts, concerns, ideas, etc.

The character is based on the dead matter of the forest. Eventually, he'll have an oily exo-viens. Similar to gasoline when spilled on the ground and reflects in the light. Think natural gas, from fermented dead matter.

stoehr
03-13-2003, 11:44 PM
Another, testing the lighting of the textures. White colored lights, to see the true UV colors. I'll begin the colored lighting schemes after I'm done texturing.

stoehr
03-14-2003, 06:33 PM
Another update.

stoehr
03-14-2003, 06:34 PM
.

l. a. akira
03-14-2003, 07:06 PM
awesome work so far. looking forward to seeing it completed. :)

stoehr
03-16-2003, 03:27 AM
Thanks l.a. Akira:

here's another update. This image is getting closer to my desired textures. Trying to find something closer to mossy bark after a rain storm.

Tom Speed
03-16-2003, 11:51 AM
Hi,

Great work on the model & texturing so far!
As for mossy bark, what springs to mind would be more contrast than the colors you have at the moment, i.e wet bark might be darker, and whenever I think of moss I think of a strong, fairly bright green.

I know you're still at the texturing stage, but have you given thought to using Hypervoxels or Saslite for the moss?

Looking forward to seeing it finished!

Tom

stoehr
03-16-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Tom Speed
Hi,

Great work on the model & texturing so far!
As for mossy bark, what springs to mind would be more contrast than the colors you have at the moment, i.e wet bark might be darker, and whenever I think of moss I think of a strong, fairly bright green.

I know you're still at the texturing stage, but have you given thought to using Hypervoxels or Saslite for the moss?

Looking forward to seeing it finished!

Tom

hello Tom. Yeah, I have some plans to use Shave and a Haircut to do some, grasses, mosses, and fungi instancing.
Mosses come in a variety of deep greens to bright blues, and this character will have a transition of moss values throughout his body (from toe to head). And he'll be wetter and heavier near his feet (logically).
I'll post a couple of the reference images I'm working from. I took several rolls of film and video of Ohio's National Wayne Forest for this character and project.

stoehr
03-16-2003, 12:31 PM
Here's one of some fungi and bark.

stoehr
03-16-2003, 12:32 PM
Here's another of wet bark and bright mosses.

stoehr
03-16-2003, 12:51 PM
The original reference concept drawing.

stoehr
03-17-2003, 06:55 PM
Tweaking the UV's, diffuse, spec, and color

stoehr
03-23-2003, 12:03 PM
Another update. There are many sublte changes, and the collar bone finishes the transition between the upper hump and mid torso.

stoehr
03-23-2003, 11:56 PM
Head is mapped now.

stoehr
03-23-2003, 11:57 PM
Right side

stoehr
03-24-2003, 03:29 PM
Here's an image of the whole body. The head and upper hump/carriage is the most complicated to unwrap. Hopefully the rest of the body will go faster.

stoehr
03-24-2003, 06:01 PM
Some more painting and bump adjustments on the mouth to seperate between facial features.

Rory_L
03-24-2003, 07:43 PM
Inspirational.

Who painted the original illustration?

R

stoehr
03-24-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Rory_L
Inspirational.

Who painted the original illustration?

R

I created the original, and it's a charcoal drawing.

stoehr
03-24-2003, 11:53 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8445

This is the original thread; in case anyone wanted to know.

ModelMonkey
03-25-2003, 12:47 AM
Very confusing... itīs hard to find the centre of interest in the picture.

stoehr
03-25-2003, 04:38 PM
Reworked the mouth today.

ModelMonkey
03-25-2003, 11:20 PM
You have some composition problems. You should put some key areas, like nose, mouth, eyes, etc, not so uniform in color and texture. At this moment you have a very uniform mapping, i think you should break it a lot. For example The tip of the branches could loose some of the hard bump patterns, and be more green (real trees are more "fresh" at the tips)

Also try to put your image in grayscale, you will see what iīm talking about, you donīt have a chiaro scuro scheme, the tones are all very similiar. But you are still working on it, and i hope my comment help you.

Regards.

ModelMonkey
03-25-2003, 11:26 PM
This can help you

stoehr
03-26-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
You have some composition problems. You should put some key areas, like nose, mouth, eyes, etc, not so uniform in color and texture. At this moment you have a very uniform mapping, i think you should break it a lot. For example The tip of the branches could loose some of the hard bump patterns, and be more green (real trees are more "fresh" at the tips)

Also try to put your image in grayscale, you will see what iīm talking about, you donīt have a chiaro scuro scheme, the tones are all very similiar. But you are still working on it, and i hope my comment help you.

Regards.

Yes, I understand. I've already begun the process of breaking up the texture with the lip area. I've laid the base of the texture, and now I'm building off of it. Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

stoehr
03-26-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
For example The tip of the branches could loose some of the hard bump patterns, and be more green (real trees are more "fresh" at the tips)



My character is like the "undead" of forest creatures (sort of). So it's more accurate to say "hard bump patterns to deader looking tree/foliage/dirt stuff".

Keep the feed back comin', I love it!

jin'a
03-26-2003, 02:37 AM
I think that it is really good model, and the texturing is really good, however the texturing is so detailed that it takes away from teh actuall shape of the creature, if you want it to look good, i would say reduce the amount of texturing.

stoehr
03-26-2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by jin'a
I think that it is really good model, and the texturing is really good, however the texturing is so detailed that it takes away from teh actuall shape of the creature, if you want it to look good, i would say reduce the amount of texturing.

Yeah, I agree, I'm starting to think less textures is better. I'm going through a process of "cutting" into the textures, exposing the form of the model. There's a specific art term that describes the cutting into the surface of something (like clay), and I can't think of the term off hand.

ModelMonkey
03-26-2003, 03:12 AM
Did you tried using the current textures as bumpmaps only? Try to change the object colour to the most dominant color in your maps, and use the current maps as bumps. I think it will look nice.

Better...Then put the colour maps at 50% opacity.

stoehr
03-26-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by ModelMonkey
Did you tried using the current textures as bumpmaps only? Try to change the object colour to the most dominant color in your maps, and use the current maps as bumps. I think it will look nice.

Better...Then put the colour maps at 50% opacity.

I'll give it try right now.

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 03:40 AM
R
and I can't think of the term off hand.
`Hatchet Job`? :)

I don`t think the textures pose that much of a problem, when the whole figure is seen, but only when you close in on some small part of it. I think this would be solved simply by making sure that the eyes are very recognisable. If we can see these, our brains will fill in the rest for us. Also everything will be clearer when you animate it.

Are you familiar with Moore/Veitch/Totleben`s `Swamp Thing`? This is a magnificently detailed tangle of living vegetation that would be utterly confusing if not for the clearly recognisable eyes and mouth/nose overhang.

Funny about the charcoal mistake: I could have sworn it was a watercolour!

Cheers.

stoehr
03-26-2003, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by Rory_L
R
`Hatchet Job`? :)

I don`t think the textures pose that much of a problem, when the whole figure is seen, but only when you close in on some small part of it. I think this would be solved simply by making sure that the eyes are very recognisable. If we can see these, our brains will fill in the rest for us. Also everything will be clearer when you animate it.

Are you familiar with Moore/Veitch/Totleben`s `Swamp Thing`? This is a magnificently detailed tangle of living vegetation that would be utterly confusing if not for the clearly recognisable eyes and mouth/nose overhang.

Funny about the charcoal mistake: I could have sworn it was a watercolour!

Cheers.

I do agree with you on general movement versus closeups.

Umm, I think there will be problems for this character... because there are no eyes.

However, however, I am cutting away at the textures around where the eyes might be. Imagine the black tear ducts of a cheetah or a dog with runny eyes. Something like that.

It's very important this character doesn't have eyes, so it doesn't fall into the easily recognizable catergory of creatures with humanlike eyes. (animals of our world essentially). I am trying to develop a very unique way of saying "hey, here is where the eyes go", but with out putting them there.

Does that make sense?

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 04:12 AM
Yes; very good sense. It was one of the most `other` aspects of the Alien design. Best of luck! How about luminous moss or fungus?

R

stoehr
03-26-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Rory_L
Yes; very good sense. It was one of the most `other` aspects of the Alien design. Best of luck! How about luminous moss or fungus?

R

Definately adding mosses, fungis, leaves, grasses! Added with a hair and instancing program. (simulations and effects phase after texturing phase). I plan to have a very dynamic creature movement and dynamic surface movement (hopefully, if I don't burn out first).

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 04:45 AM
Mmm! I`m so looking forward to all that, but I really meant how about using luminous moss to define the place where the eyes would go?

What kind of character does this creature have? Is it a gentle, earth being, or does the spirit truly reflect the sinister, outer appearance?

R

stoehr
03-26-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Rory_L
Mmm! I`m so looking forward to all that, but I really meant how about using luminous moss to define the place where the eyes would go?

What kind of character does this creature have? Is it a gentle, earth being, or does the spirit truly reflect the sinister, outer appearance?

R

Definately one of the baddest things one could ever find in a forest.
Luminous eyes... ummm, I don't know, that one has been done a lot. But if the mosses could be slightly different than normal, more than just luminous...

Rory_L
03-26-2003, 11:56 PM
Ah, you`re right: glowing eyes ar old! Hmm...well it`s just going to have to be a radically different texture to the rest of the face then. That and topology: cavities will give dark shadows where the eyes would have been.

R

stoehr
03-27-2003, 12:36 AM
I was able to work onathe arms today. The quality of my painting is being reinforced by my judicious use of gradients, so... I'll be spending more time painting. Right now it's just a rough painting.

jin'a
03-27-2003, 08:28 AM
i was thinking about the eyes, they don't have to be glowing, but more like cats eyes. When ligh catches them they reflect the light, really bright in half light (eg dusk/dawn) but dim and not glowing during night/day. Or you could go for a really dull glow all the time, so it's not obvious like the kind of brightness of light when in penetrates into a thick forest, dull green.

Anyway it's up to you! but i think it's looking great, can't wait to see the whole thing textured!

stoehr
03-29-2003, 11:01 PM
So I had to work for a few days, but I'm back in business!

I have three shots of my troll, with arms near completion. Comments are always appreciated.

stoehr
03-29-2003, 11:02 PM
from the top

stoehr
03-29-2003, 11:03 PM
from the front

stoehr
03-29-2003, 11:04 PM
Sorry, here's the image.

stoehr
03-29-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by jin'a
i was thinking about the eyes, they don't have to be glowing, but more like cats eyes. When ligh catches them they reflect the light, really bright in half light (eg dusk/dawn) but dim and not glowing during night/day. Or you could go for a really dull glow all the time, so it's not obvious like the kind of brightness of light when in penetrates into a thick forest, dull green.

Anyway it's up to you! but i think it's looking great, can't wait to see the whole thing textured!

Thanks, Jin'a:
I think your idea about the "reflective" eyes is a good. I look into it.

sidewing
03-30-2003, 12:12 AM
Great model and texturing!

Hope you are going to animate this one.

Keep updating us about the texturing part. Do you have good tips for texturing something complex like this?

John

stoehr
03-30-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by sidewing
Great model and texturing!

Hope you are going to animate this one.

Keep updating us about the texturing part. Do you have good tips for texturing something complex like this?

John

Thanks.
Actually, the walk cycle is finished already. I'll probably remake it.
Walk Cycle (http://www.stoehrsartstudio.com/Walk_v2-4.mov)

I have lots of tips for this complex beast of a character. I'll be writing some tutorials of how I made it using Aura and Lightwave.

oxyg3n
03-30-2003, 01:10 AM
Hello Matt,

Can you post a wireframe of your model please, I have been meaning to ask you.

Thanks

stoehr
03-30-2003, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by oxyg3n
Hello Matt,

Can you post a wireframe of your model please, I have been meaning to ask you.

Thanks

Sure: Just a minute.

stoehr
03-30-2003, 01:32 AM
.

stoehr
03-30-2003, 01:35 AM
I just remade the front plate texture. It's a bit more cohesive.

stoehr
03-30-2003, 01:36 AM
And finally for tonight, a close up of the hand.

oxyg3n
03-30-2003, 01:39 AM
Thanks Matt,

The wireframe is not as messy as I was imaging it to be, you did a good job keeping everything together nice and neat.

stoehr
03-30-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by oxyg3n
Thanks Matt,

The wireframe is not as messy as I was imaging it to be, you did a good job keeping everything together nice and neat.

Ha! Thanks.

stoehr
03-31-2003, 01:27 AM
Ok, today I unwrapped the upper legs, painted the color and bump maps. Lower legs and feet and all that's left to unwrap, then I'll spend some time making all of the textures more cohesive.

Rory_L
03-31-2003, 04:47 AM
I dunno: it`s making the Ents artists look like amateurs!

I`d like to give a balanced crit, but I`ve nothing but praise, not only for the results, but also for the stamina!!!

R

Edit:-
Just watched the walk anim, so now I do have something more than "Gee it`s great!" to say. When you remake the walk cycle, do please put some anticipation and lag into the opposing leg/arm pairs. At the moment the left leg and right arm are moving in perfect synchrony, as is the other side.

Also, the skinning`s looking a bit like Puppetmaster rigid skinning: was that your stylistic intention?

Cheers,

R again.

stoehr
03-31-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Rory_L
I dunno: it`s making the Ents artists look like amateurs!

I`d like to give a balanced crit, but I`ve nothing but praise, not only for the results, but also for the stamina!!!

R

Edit:-
Just watched the walk anim, so now I do have something more than "Gee it`s great!" to say. When you remake the walk cycle, do please put some anticipation and lag into the opposing leg/arm pairs. At the moment the left leg and right arm are moving in perfect synchrony, as is the other side.

Also, the skinning`s looking a bit like Puppetmaster rigid skinning: was that your stylistic intention?

Cheers,

R again.

You mean the skinning in the hips and shoulders right? I'm going to remake them after I'm done texturing. Actually, I'm changing several elements of his rig. And No, it wasn't a stylistic concern, I was just getting it to work at the time.

stoehr
03-31-2003, 12:56 PM
Hey everybody: This render is only differs in lighting from the last image. Didn't do any more texturing work. I just wanted to see what it would look like under radiosity lighting and a different color in the light.
This render took with Medium AA took 1 hour 50 minutes. Compared to the previous image with Medium AA took 1 minute 37 seconds. Big difference.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 12:55 AM
I unwrapped the legs, and painted the Color and Bump.
It is finally completely unwrapped (backing up this bad boy).
Now I'm going to spend some time reworking the painting. I'm particularily happy with the results of the feet. A worn down, dirty look.

The legs.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 12:57 AM
A close up of the front foot area.
He's got some toe moss.
After I retouch his painting I'll spend time doing simulations of leaves, grasses, and fungi stuff.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 02:24 AM
Alright! This will be my last render for a few days. I have to do some work for my client, which, unfortunately, I'm forced to postpone my progress.
But, the next logical step is texture map clean up, and then simulations.

oxyg3n
04-01-2003, 02:35 AM
Hello Matt,

It is looking really good, I cant wait to see what he looks like with moss and leaves on him.

Are they going to be flat 2 dimensional image maps, or will they be 3 dimensional models??

Keep up the work, I think you deserve some stars or something!

jin'a
04-01-2003, 06:11 AM
You can't put leaves on him/her (can't really tell, i presume it's a male, but then a again we are dealing with a fantasy creature!) I think it would look rather good if you just added a bit of moss! but leave it at that! You want it to look evil (i thnk that was the general impression you were aiming for) and so crooked old tree is kind of a good look to go for, if you add leaves you'll make it look as if it is straight out of a fairy tale, which is not what you want!! more nightmarish I was thinking!

stoehr
04-01-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by oxyg3n
Hello Matt,

It is looking really good, I cant wait to see what he looks like with moss and leaves on him.

Are they going to be flat 2 dimensional image maps, or will they be 3 dimensional models??

Keep up the work, I think you deserve some stars or something!

Thanks.

Mosses, fungi's, and leaves (dead leaves) all three dimensional.
Added on with Motion Designer or Shave.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by jin'a
You can't put leaves on him/her (can't really tell, i presume it's a male, but then a again we are dealing with a fantasy creature!) I think it would look rather good if you just added a bit of moss! but leave it at that! You want it to look evil (i thnk that was the general impression you were aiming for) and so crooked old tree is kind of a good look to go for, if you add leaves you'll make it look as if it is straight out of a fairy tale, which is not what you want!! more nightmarish I was thinking!

Your absolutely correct, they would have to be dead leaves to work correctly, and just a few of them.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 12:51 PM
For those of you who are interested, I have here an example of the bump map painted for the upper leg area.

http://stoehrsartstudio.com/cgtalk/EXAMPLElegsUpperB.jpg

Rory_L
04-01-2003, 08:02 PM
May I suggest you make some of the more accessible areas, where the `bark` has peeled away shinier and smoother, like it`s been polished by constant rubbing? (I`m thinking back to my tree climbing days! :D )

R

stoehr
04-01-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Rory_L
May I suggest you make some of the more accessible areas, where the `bark` has peeled away shinier and smoother, like it`s been polished by constant rubbing? (I`m thinking back to my tree climbing days! :D )

R

Sounds great. I'll give it a try.

stoehr
04-01-2003, 11:23 PM
Here's another angle from the top. This angle has some nice forms.

http://www.stoehrsartstudio.com/cgtalk/Full_32.jpg

Abe
04-05-2003, 06:15 AM
WOW,WOW,WOW:This is one fantastic thread,I have gone back on all the threads, and loved every minuet of it.The work you have put in on creating such a geat detailed model can only help to inspire people like me who are just staring out inLW and finding it a bit hard.I have had the good fortune to get a copy of Aura DV which was given away free with Digit Magazine ,and so are looking forward to seeing the tutorial when you get time to do it!.I must agree with all that has been said before in that the only thing I do miss are eyes of some sort it seems to make it harder to focus on the face?.I have bookmarked your site and subscribed to this thread so I don't miss a thing especialy when you come to animate .Thanks for taking the trouble to show us your work Abe

stoehr
04-06-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Abe
WOW,WOW,WOW:This is one fantastic thread,I have gone back on all the threads, and loved every minuet of it.The work you have put in on creating such a geat detailed model can only help to inspire people like me who are just staring out inLW and finding it a bit hard.I have had the good fortune to get a copy of Aura DV which was given away free with Digit Magazine ,and so are looking forward to seeing the tutorial when you get time to do it!.I must agree with all that has been said before in that the only thing I do miss are eyes of some sort it seems to make it harder to focus on the face?.I have bookmarked your site and subscribed to this thread so I don't miss a thing especialy when you come to animate .Thanks for taking the trouble to show us your work Abe

Thanks Abe! That's very nice of you.
Check out the full body shots if you didn't catch it. I think one of these shots is different than what you saw.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2712&pagenumber=1

I should have a new animation by the end of the month. And maybe some simulations. It's tough to get this character fully realized, due to my fulltime job teaching.

Abe
04-06-2003, 01:38 PM
Thanks for the reply Mathew,I can see it now the camera panning across a dark forest with just a few stray beams of light getting through the forest ceiling .Then the camera moving slowly back and centering on just one tree giving a close up of the highly detailed bark.After a few seconds part of the tree starts to move away and from the tree slowly de-merges the troll:Just like( Flash Gordon and the clay men)!.Have to stop dreaming now showing my age and just a suggestion as this has been a great theme as well as a great model

Rory_L
04-06-2003, 10:47 PM
Abe, thanks for reminding me of my childhood Christmasses! If you want to remember the Republic serial again go and listen to Liszt`s `Les Preludes`: it`s the `Flying in the Spaceship` theme!! I discovered this by accident, listening to the radio one day: this tune came on and I nearly fell off my chair! :D Brought it all back to me, Mud Men and all!

Cheers,

R

Abe
04-07-2003, 03:00 PM
No problem Rory,its nice to know i'm not the only old boy on this site.Mings space ship would be an easy subject for 3d.To think when i first saw this as a kid in the fiffties it was the height of animation and now look what we can do.Will look out for Lists Prelude would like to hear it again,if only we could re-produce the sound of Mings ship Abe

stoehr
04-10-2003, 01:36 AM
Playing with footprints with MD.