View Full Version : DV end-to-end Linear editing, anyone?

03-13-2003, 02:57 PM

Does VT2 do live DV mixing?

We have a studio with three DV camcorders, and we need a solution that will allow us to do live switching from these DV inputs for weekly internet broadcasts.

We currently have a Videonics MXDV Pro mixer, but it's DV-out will not interface directly with a PC DV card. I read in another discusion board that the Cideo Toaster might be just what I needed. Is this true?

If the Toaster can't do this, could someone please point be in the right direction?


03-13-2003, 08:15 PM
From what has been reported by Newtek, the upcomming release of Toaster 3 WILL be able to switch between firewire/1394 (i.e DV) inputs. You can get a dv card with 3 inputs on it and I think you can put two of these in your computer for a total of 6 inputs.

The current release will allow you to place one DV signal on the switcher, but the DV input (on this version) is hard to sync with live audio due to the fact that T2 has to "decompress" the signal first. The toaster is designed as an uncompressed video system.

Currently, the best solution is to run Y/C cables from you cameras to the Toasters SX-8 multi-input box (not included in base price).

Once in the Toaster you can stream straight to the net!

Straight up I will tell you the toaster has some things that we all wished it would do. But I can't think of any company that tries harder to make those things happen than Newtek. Many times giving them to you for little to no cost.

Lastly, if you buy one - contact a dealer. They will set you up with the proper system for what you need to do and will cost less if not immediatly then in the long run.
Happy Toastin!

03-13-2003, 10:23 PM
I also would suggest using Y/C via the SX-8 for this instead of firewire.

Never base buying decisions on products that aren't actually out yet.

Toaster[2] with an SX-8 will do an awesome job at live switching with Y/C, component, or composite inputs.

03-21-2003, 12:24 PM
I also would suggest using Y/C via the SX-8 for this instead of firewire.

Even if Toaster 3 will handle it in principle, there may be a bandwidth limit on Firewire Cards which might prevent switching more than a couple of DV Sources, whereas the SX-8 will eat the the task for breakfast, handling up to 8 Y/C sources,since you are only one generation down via the analog you won't get any noticable generation loss, and most streaming formats are below Y/C quality anyway, I would go that route and if Toaster 3 does it via firewire thats a bonus.

03-22-2003, 08:06 AM
Most mini DV's lack RS422 deck controll.

How does one synch up 2 or 3 cameras/DV sources without using the firewire control then for live switching?

Paul Lara
03-22-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Quinte
Most mini DV's lack RS422 deck controll.

How does one synch up 2 or 3 cameras/DV sources without using the firewire control then for live switching?

'control' is not necessary, since your are essentially managing the incoming video streams from the live camera sources.

03-22-2003, 12:54 PM
True enough Paul, I should have been a little more clear at where I was going with this question.

Back in the old days with the Amiga Toaster, users would synch up each deck for A/B roll then do manual switching for final recorded out. (Fast hand and good eyes)
This is a fantastic time saver and a feature that would be very usefull for two/three camera shoots without having to import each time onto the HD.
So is it possible to do this with the T3 using DV sources?

Another example, there is a Multi-Ccam application out for Premiere that allows users to preview 2-4 streams of video, using the function keys to switch between imported sources. The whole event is recorded and ported over to premiere for output.

I would like to use this for 2-camera wedding shoots, currently I'm slicing and diceing in premiere and this would be a termendous time saver.
Can the DDR's be operated in this fashion as an alternative, by that I mean, can I synch up 2 sources with the DDR and switch between them at will manually for A/B roll output?

Rich Deustachio
03-22-2003, 06:02 PM
The way I handle two source wedding editing is to capture both sources, each as one big clip for the entire ceremony. Place one on top of the other and find youor scnc location with either a flash point or other movement (flash seems to work best). I place a marker on each clip where the flash is and line them up. This way your whole ceremony is synced. Then just place either cut or dissolve transitions where needed. it would be nice to have both sources displayed in Toastervision at the same time when playing or scrubbing (this has been on the feature request list for some time now).

03-23-2003, 08:41 PM
You cannot 'sync' two DDR's as you ask. Technically, you could create two clips starting at the same (synced) point and put each one in a DDR. Problem is there is no way to start playing both DDR's at the same exact time.
As for deck control, I can control my sony miniDV camera via firewire, but again there is no support for controlling two or more decks/cameras at the same exact time (an edit controller).
This feature is something that many (myself included) have asked for and I would hope is forthcomming.
In the meantime, other than doing waht Rich discribed the other option is to get a stand alone edit controller.