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View Full Version : Deus Ex 2, not made with LW ?



Yog
02-20-2004, 06:39 AM
It seems like the sequal to the former flagship LW-made game "Deus Ex" wont feature any LW this time around :(
Article (http://www.cgchannel.com/news/viewfeature.jsp?newsid=2481)

The guys over at Ion Storm seem to make no bones that MAX suits their needs better than the software they "formerly" used.
"The Editable Poly tools in 3ds max are the most complete toolset on the market today," says Greg Callahan, artist. "With most 3D packages you'll find yourself downloading scripts or writing one to do simple tasks that are already built into 3ds max."
This seems all the more stinging when you consider they used to be a big LW house.
"3ds max is the only modeling application we used on this game, .... I'm sure 3ds max will be our platform of choice for many projects to come"

I must admit that I was really surprised at the poly tools in the last couple releases of MAX, they are much improved over previous versions (shows what continual, gradual improvement can achieve instead of concentrating on just one or two aspects of a program every couple of years). I do still do most of my modelling in LW, but that is mainly because I've been using it so long I tend to work without conciously thinking about each tool, a skill it would/will take time to learn in another package.

j3st3r
02-20-2004, 07:49 AM
Max developed a lot. But LWs modelling are much more complex with those downloadable FREE plugins. Add Edge, Ikeda`s tools are much more flexible than any of MAX current toolsets.

BUT

MAX has real local coordinates even on vertex, edge, or polylevel
MAX supports distortion free UV on subdivs
MAX supports very good UV implementation (without the need to unweld your model before hardcore UV editing)
MAX supports alpha masking on viewports
MAX support texture on wire shading mode
MAX is very customizable (extendable)

I know few issues will be fixed in LW8, later this year, but until then...MAX fits better in generally to a game developer company :mad:

TriXal
02-20-2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by j3st3r
Max developed a lot. But LWs modelling are much more complex with those downloadable FREE plugins. Add Edge, Ikeda`s tools are much more flexible than any of MAX current toolsets.

BUT

MAX has real local coordinates even on vertex, edge, or polylevel
MAX supports distortion free UV on subdivs
MAX supports very good UV implementation (without the need to unweld your model before hardcore UV editing)
MAX supports alpha masking on viewports
MAX support texture on wire shading mode
MAX is very customizable (extendable)

I know few issues will be fixed in LW8, later this year, but until then...MAX fits better in generally to a game developer company :mad:

You forgot smoothing groups.

pixym
02-20-2004, 08:23 AM
And Max render is open so that you can use Vray...
I want NT to open the LW render :mad:

Chris S. (Fez)
02-20-2004, 11:09 AM
"Add Edge, Ikeda`s tools are much more flexible than any of MAX current toolsets."

Free scripts with similar if not the same functionality are available for Max.

evilemil
02-20-2004, 12:34 PM
having worked for a long time with max, doing lowpoly stuff, i switched to editable polys about 18 months ago and have to admit, that they are great.
i owned LW before and worked with it, therefore i searched for scripts, that complemented my workflow.
we are still using Max 4.2 for all our modelling (high and lowpoly) and from LW, i only miss the knife tool and the possibilty to rotate/scale with the mouse as the center.

the "development" of the polytools in max were similar to the "improvement" of LW8: integrating former free tools/scripts and let the customers pay for it.
the polytools for max 6 are apparently nothing more than that. the only tool that really improved was the cut tool ( i will now probably bashed by hardcore max6 users, but this is what i know from checking out a trial version of max 6)

id modelled their first models for doom with lightwave, before Alias stepped in and gave them licenses to promote their software.

From a hardcore games asset creation perspective, i have to agree, that LW is not on the same level as max.
I have some ideas how to change this, and how to improve LW's image in the games world (which is dominated by max) and will compile a list of areas of improvement.
ATM i am deep into the finishing of our project FAR CRY, and do not have to much spare time. (it is a shame, that we did not use LW on this project, but it did not suit our workflow and the studio structure).

j3st3r
02-20-2004, 01:19 PM
WOW!

I`ve played with FAR CRY demo (being a developer myself also), and I must say, it`s great! It has a very very good MOOD!

Back to LW in gaming. I think, I can model much much faster in LW than any of our game modeller in any other software. LW has few drawbacks, I can live with them for a while. LW has a great approach to modelling: low level acces to object data!

j3st3r
02-20-2004, 01:32 PM
Concerning id. As far as I know, id still developes characters for high res in LW, Maya is used for animations. Doom3 editor even loads LWO directly.

WilliamVaughan
02-20-2004, 09:54 PM
Doom3 is modeled 100% in LightWave....They hired Fred for animation and he went with Maya.......they continue to use Lightave for modeling not sure where the rumor came from that they switched but they obviously didn't get that from teh art dept at id.

WilliamVaughan
02-20-2004, 09:58 PM
The guys at Digital extremes use LightWave as well....so does Croteam, Raven, IGT, and many more...I'm very excited about LightWave's growth in teh game industry and only see it getting better.

Just look at teh file format they chose for the Doom 3 engine...that is enuff to get any LightWave artist excited :)

WizCraker
02-20-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by proton
Just look at teh file format they chose for the Doom 3 engine...that is enuff to get any LightWave artist excited :)

Let me guess it wouldn't happen to start with an L and end in an O?

WilliamVaughan
02-20-2004, 11:28 PM
:)

Karmacop
02-21-2004, 02:33 AM
Proton, from looking at .. umm .. the leak .. it looked like lwo was only used for still objects and not creatures etc. Do you know if Doom3 can use weightmaps from the lwo for adding bones to the object and thus animate them?

Hervé
02-21-2004, 02:50 AM
I don't know if it's unconcious, Proton, but I noticed in most of your posts, you always invert the 'the' for 'teh'... he he funny...

I did also that with..... "that" I was writing always "taht"... and it's hard to get rid off it... he he...

Nothing harmful here.... just kidding...;)

Hervé

j3st3r
02-21-2004, 02:53 AM
As I said, Lightwave was used for modelling CREATURES, hihg res models, etc. Long ago there were a famous video introducing the DOOM3 technology. There were shown Lightwave with a very hihg resolutional model.

I know a guy, who knows a guy, who had seen a guy who has this leaked Doom. LWO is directly supported. As a model. Maya was used for animation.

Alias has a strong, and aggressive marketing policy, and this is well known. We have seen the famous R2D2 fly scene (made with LW on Mac) in the Maya demo reel, etc. Alias gives licenses to companies to include PLE with the game. It is fun to see that companies declare that they did that and that game with Maya or Max or XSI alone...I`m pretty sure, that there are always "rebels". Rebels using alternate solutions like Lightwave, Wings, etc. And I know companies who are claimed as Maya-house, but most of their pipeline is based on MAX...

WilliamVaughan
02-21-2004, 09:22 AM
Every object was modeled in LightWave...creatures, players, etc. it is the pipeline that work sfor them...and it makes me happy! :)

j3st3r
02-21-2004, 10:24 AM
Me two...oops...too

riki
02-21-2004, 05:18 PM
Doom 3's a good one to have on your books. Will we see some screenshots in the gallery?