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Hervé
02-19-2004, 02:41 AM
I would have loved such a deal for the LW PC users.... I am a loyal user, but why do Mac users get a free superbe deal, when we get nothing.... (I was not interested at all in the DXF deal, sorry for that)

I think they should make that offer as an alternative for the DXF deal.... then I'll have a good reason to pay in advance;)

All I am going to get is just the LW8 upgrade, period...

Note that I already have Image Modeler for a few years, but that would have been a good occasion to put my hands on Stitcher for instance....

I am not mad, just a bit disapointed for a long term user of Newtek & Realviz Softwares

I will post this also on Realviz's board....

Hervé

Are there any other PC users in this case ?

Beamtracer
02-19-2004, 03:08 AM
Hi Hervé, if this bundle deal had something totally useless you wouldn't worry about it. I think the problem is the opposite, that the deal is so good that you want it.

A lot of Mac users felt left out when the DFX+ deal came out last year, which came with a Windows-only application. The Mac Lightwave forum was full of people howling. In response, Newtek promised that they would look for an alternate deal for the Mac Lightwave community. Now that deal has eventuated.

From a business point of view, I would imagine that the Lightwave Windows community has been saturated by the DFX deal. Most have probably already ordered Lightwave 8.

Not many Mac users took up that offer. Newtek had to do something to attract the Mac users to order Lightwave 8.

Hervé, I remember from your previous posts that you have an older Mac in your home, as well as your newer Windows machine.

I think Newtek has done the right thing by looking after the previously neglected Mac users.
As I said in another thread, if your want Stitcher it costs around US$580, + VAT. The Lightwave bundle that includes LW8, Stitcher (for making panoramas), Image Modeler (for making 3D models out of photos) and SceneWeaver (for aligning 3D objects to photographs) costs US$490 or so.

I think it's a great deal.

Hervé
02-19-2004, 03:26 AM
.... very sorry but I felt left out also coz I would have no use f DXF, that's why I did not upgraded yet, why should I have give my money in advance to get what I'll get anyway (just the LW8 upgrade), I was just saying forget thatstupid nonsense war and just offer whatever deal people want ! LW8+DXF or LW8+Realviz, that's all... forget all the rest and take the best


"..... I've done my best, now you do the rest..." -Iggy Pop -

So you see....;

Hervé
02-19-2004, 03:33 AM
Ok last try.... he he.... sneaky...

I've just remember my dongle is a duo dongle Mac /PC, do I benefit from the realviz deal.... hu hu I'll ask NT Europe....

robewil
02-19-2004, 10:49 AM
While I'm usually one to defend Newtek, I personally feel that they have handled the promotions concerning the Lightwave 8 upgrade badly.

-First, it's DFX+ leaving Mac users out in the cold.

-Now, Mac users who purchased the upgrade and got DFX+ are bewildered for apparently being penalized for upgrading too early.

-Some PC users (myself included), feel cheated because we would greatly prefer the RealViz package to DFX+.

-On top of everything else, Lightwave 8 has still not shipped making it appear that the promotions, particularly the DFX+ deal, was used as an incentive to fund Newteks Lightwave 8 development which was obviously, no where near completion when first previewed at Siggraph last year.

The promo situation reeks of poor planning and not thinking ahead. I strongly suggest that Newtek comes clean by:

-Allowing all Mac users who prematurely upgraded to be able to exchange their DFX+ package for the RealViz deal.

-Similarly, allow any PC user who purchased the upgrade with DFX+ the option of exchanging that for the RealViz deal.

-Give PC users who haven't upgraded yet, the option of DFX+ or the RealViz deal.

-And finally, clue us in on when we may expect Lightwave 8 to ship.

Unless something is done, I believe a lot of user's perceptions of Newtek are going to sour.

CaptainKirk
02-19-2004, 11:23 AM
First of all DFX+ is an awesome application and I would take it over this real viz deal any day ( I have no real use for it ).

Now, I know it depends on what you already own ( After effects or whatever ) some people don't need DFX+, and some like me don't need real viz.

But these are FREE, Newtek first gave us a great deal on LW and DFX +, then Mac people started whining. They should have realized it's not NewTek's fault they are on a platform with less available applications and obviously it is more difficult for NewTek to find a company willing to bundle their $1000 worth of software for almost nothing.

Finally NewTek finds somebody for the Mac guys and the rest of Lightwavers are crying: "OHHH I want that instead"

The lesson NewTek ( who did everything right, and nothing wrong here ) will learn is to give us all NOTHING next time around, so pay for your own extra %$^&$# next time.

Can't you all just shut up, not be all sour grapey and not post nonsense like Beam : "DFX+ is a hobbyist app" or now PC users: " Mommy, mommy I want this one now"

prospector
02-19-2004, 11:29 AM
I want my Maypo!!!:D

Maby there could be an 'exchange' program for those who got something they would use less than the other?

robewil
02-19-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by CaptainKirk
Can't you all just shut up, not be all sour grapey and not post nonsense like Beam : "DFX+ is a hobbyist app" or now PC users: " Mommy, mommy I want this one now"
Understood, but I'm not calling DFX+ a hobbyist app.
Originally posted by CaptainKirk
They should have realized it's not NewTek's fault they are on a platform with less available applications and obviously it is more difficult for NewTek to find a company willing to bundle their $1000 worth of software for almost nothing.
Then quite frankly, Newtek should never have offered the DFX+ bundle until an equitable deal was also available for the "rest of us".


Originally posted by CaptainKirk
The lesson NewTek ( who did everything right, and nothing wrong here ) I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

trick
02-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Well, I'm a PC-user who did the upgr[8]/DFX+ thing a few months back and am very happy with it. I would even be happier if I had a 2nd Mac-license so I could do this new deal right NOW. Having a (commercial) business I know deals are made to attract clients, so there are always some that will be disappointed they got one deal for the other or missed it completely. I also think that Realviz can do this deal exclusively for MAC, since PC is the preferred 3D platform. Just as Eyeon did the DFX deal, since more and more people do their editing and compositing on the MAC. Generally I would say regarding deals: if you don't absolutely need it, don't do it....unless CASH is your middle name...

Beamtracer
02-19-2004, 02:10 PM
Just speculating, but it also may be possible that Newtek has contracts with Eyeon / Realviz that prevent them from offering a cross platform deal. It would also be logistically hard, as Lightwave would have to be packaged for Mac or Windows (currently, the one LW CD + duo dongle works on both).


Originally posted by CaptainKirk
Can't you all just shut up Well, CaptainKirk, you could always lead by example and follow your own advice!

Freak
02-19-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by robewil
While I'm usually one to defend Newtek, I personally feel that they have handled the promotions concerning the Lightwave 8 upgrade badly.

-First, it's DFX+ leaving Mac users out in the cold.

-Now, Mac users who purchased the upgrade and got DFX+ are bewildered for apparently being penalized for upgrading too early.

-Some PC users (myself included), feel cheated because we would greatly prefer the RealViz package to DFX+.

-On top of everything else, Lightwave 8 has still not shipped making it appear that the promotions, particularly the DFX+ deal, was used as an incentive to fund Newteks Lightwave 8 development which was obviously, no where near completion when first previewed at Siggraph last year.

The promo situation reeks of poor planning and not thinking ahead. I strongly suggest that Newtek comes clean by:

-Allowing all Mac users who prematurely upgraded to be able to exchange their DFX+ package for the RealViz deal.

-Similarly, allow any PC user who purchased the upgrade with DFX+ the option of exchanging that for the RealViz deal.

-Give PC users who haven't upgraded yet, the option of DFX+ or the RealViz deal.

-And finally, clue us in on when we may expect Lightwave 8 to ship.

Unless something is done, I believe a lot of user's perceptions of Newtek are going to sour.

That's total crap!

Adding 3rd party programs to your bundles, is commonly reffered to as Value Adding...... And their are several reasons why companies offer these deals (i won't go into them in)

Like Beam said it was a fair deal to MAC people, who were left out, because they are MAC people. (honestly you would think MAC people would be used to being behind)

Leaving MAC users out in the cold?
It was a free bonus application worth a few hundred dollars,
that you already knew before preordering, would not be something you needed or wanted. (So don't preorder)

TOO BAD!!! The deal was most likely done, because MAC sales of RealViz stuff is not as good as the PC versions, so by Value Adding with NT, they move some MAC versions.

I believe once LW8 is released, all the whinging will subside.
And as the L8 delivery date manages to creep into every conversation, it's simply seems to be uncontrolled dummy spitting. There have been clues on when LW8 will be released.

I'm with CK on this one.....
NT shouldn't offer anything next time, just so you don't all complain. Is it like something in the water (or what?)

Life is what you make it, not what other people make if for you!
If your unhappy, it's because you deserve to be!

You know it's sad, when I'm telling others to grow up.....

robewil
02-19-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Freak
Like Beam said it was a fair deal to MAC people, who were left out, because they are MAC people. (honestly you would think MAC people would be used to being behind) Somehow I don't think too many Mac users would feel this was fair because, after all we"re "MAC people" and are "used to being behind." I'm pretty sure I remember Beam and others making comments about the unfairness of the DFX+ deal (correct me if I'm wrong Beam :) )

As for the rest of your comments Freak, I'll just say that you are entitled to your opinion if you think my statements were "total crap" or I need to "grow up". Actually, I think you are the first person to tell me that since my mother.:)

kmscottmoore
02-19-2004, 07:12 PM
I had a Mac license, then I paid the $30 to switch to a DuoDongle. Now, I use both; I swap the key back and forth.
Then, I spent the $500 and pre-ordered the LW8 upgrade and got the DFX+ bundle.
Now, NewTek is offering the RealViz for Mac users.

Since I don't fall into the categories of Mac-only user or PC-only user, then do I get both upgrades?

Hervé
02-19-2004, 11:39 PM
as a duo dongle user , I think you have to choose one of them... he he.... I see you want both.... no no...:D

jamesl
02-20-2004, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Hervé
Ok last try.... he he.... sneaky...

I've just remember my dongle is a duo dongle Mac /PC, do I benefit from the realviz deal.... hu hu I'll ask NT Europe....

I think you pegged it... you can decide, since you have not yet upgraded, which deal you want. Shouldn't that make everyone happy? (except for the mac users who upgraded early and recieved a useless copy of DFX+, but I have to ask, why the hell did you upgrade early?!?)

j

Hervé
02-20-2004, 12:35 AM
Yes, I dont get either why "Mac users only" have upgraded.....

This is not the fault of NT, they are really doing their best to try to satisfy everyone !

But as always in any market, you'll always have people complain a little....

All I can say is really NEWTEK rocks... !!:D

jamesl
02-20-2004, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Hervé
Yes, I dont get either why "Mac users only" have upgraded.....

This is not the fault of NT, they are really doing their best to try to satisfy everyone !

But as always in any market, you'll always have people complain a little....

All I can say is really NEWTEK rocks... !!:D

And thanks for bringing back double spacing! I haven't used that since I had to write a report on 'Great Expectations' in the 8th grade! :D

j

Hervé
02-20-2004, 12:50 AM
;) :D

pauland
02-20-2004, 02:15 AM
I think that regardless of duo dongles, the Realviz part is Mac only - a windows version isn't supplied.

More and more, I find myself stunned by the ability of the LW community to complain about Newtek. It's reminiscent of kids getting too many toys to play with so they don't appreciate anything.

As a PC user, a big thumbs up to Newtek for making this offer for the Mac guys.

Paul

Hervé
02-20-2004, 02:17 AM
Nice reply Paul...

Miles
02-22-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by kmscottmoore
I had a Mac license, then I paid the $30 to switch to a DuoDongle. Now, I use both; I swap the key back and forth.>>>>Since I don't fall into the categories of Mac-only user or PC-only user, then do I get both upgrades? Heck, I $helled out $$$ extra for a PC just to stick it out with LW since the Mac wasn't up to equal standing for far too long. This chaps idea would help make up for the budget I $pent on a LW only PC here. Any chance this idea could be more than idea? Chuck?

cresshead
02-22-2004, 11:07 AM
Who's the more foolish, The Fool or The Fool who follows him?

none of the above...the fool who uses it as a tag line!

sorry couldn't resist the urge!...wel s'pose i'm being a tad foolish here eh?

...anyhow...eeerm...end of line!

Hervé
02-23-2004, 12:54 AM
... Steve are you OK ?......

Ok good news , it works with DUO users..... cool....:D

Miles
02-23-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
none of the above...the fool who uses it as a tag line! Well then, since my posting is above yours... :D

The sig tag line is more so rhetorical than a multiple choice, eh... Even if not my own words I must say it's rather relevant to the hoops many Mac and now semi Mac-LWers have been jumping through for some time. Lets hope things will finally change soon. For those Mac users who have $helled out extra budgeting last year to deal with LW by buying into PC hardware and additional $ for DUO dongle swaps and PC installer CDRs rather than just giving into our frustrations and dumping LW all together I think the chap's line of query above is rather legit, so I asked the Q? again for them, but ask it directly to NT marketing to see if this could help them.

For myself the extra software offerings would help 1) because I'm not into character animation and LW8 alone appears to be very much geared for that so an upgrade to support NT is difficult without the extras and 2) they'd help offset budgeting $pent on a PC even if each 3rd party apps appears to be geared to $helling out more to take full advantage of their current versions.

Originally posted by cresshead
sorry couldn't resist the urge!...wel s'pose i'm being a tad foolish here eh? eh, Indeed... :rolleyes: BTW, I'm admittedly inept... Since your comments "follow" that's rather suited to the sig's frame of reasoning, eh... ;)

Originally posted by cresshead
...anyhow...eeerm...end of line! See you on the game grid...

I want him in the games until he dies playing.

Yes MCP...

END OF LINE

:D ;)

moovieboy
02-24-2004, 01:58 AM
Y'know, despite what some of you seem to think, there is legitimacy in people's complaints about these bundles.

Of course Newtek doesn't have to offer anything extra for its community beyond creating a great product and support. However, when a company chooses to go down the path of special offers and promotions, then it also bears the responsibilties that come with not being able to offer something unilaterally.

Over on CGTalk, I was quick to voice my dissatisfaction over the DFX+ deal. My PC counterparts were getting a hell of bonus in their stockings and, being just as loyal a customer as they are, I rightfully felt a little neglected.

At the time, Chuck basically informed me that the deal was still incredible because, hell, I could just resell the DFX+ and make back the money on the upgrade!

Forgive me, but that didn't sound like a wonderful solution.

But, at the same time, one gets that strange voice in the back of your head that says, "Well, you WERE looking at upgrading to LW8 anyway... It might be a crap deal, but it IS free... who knows, maybe DFX will port to OSX and you can upgrade..." and on and on. And with email announcements and postings that the DFX offer was going to end, well, then you are going to pressure some people to make an uninformed choice.

I may have missed it, so my apologies in advance, but I do not recall seeing a message from Newtek saying, "Hey Mac LW users, we're working hard on creating a similar bundle offer. No promises yet, but we're working on it." Again, sorry if I missed it...

I know there are PR and business reasons not to make such advance announcements, but still, imho, Newtek allowed its Mac base to falsely believe it was a choice of DFX or nothing. I mean, am I incorrect in thinking the whole RealViz bundle developed in part because of Mac users being a squeaky wheel demanding some grease?

Look, if some of you choose to liken users who complain to "children" then that makes Newtek the "parent." And as a parent, I know better than to go to my kids and say, "I've got some really yummy ice cream for you... But it's in a flavor one of you really hates. Enjoy!"

It's most likely against Newtek's better judgement, but I think they should negotiate with those who jumped too soon, especially those who still have DFX in whatever wrapper it shipped in. Why? Sometimes it's just better in the long run to make your customers happy even with the inconveniences involved.

Yeah, I know... much easier said than done. What else is new? :D

-Tom

jamesl
02-24-2004, 03:25 AM
moovieboy- I agree, but for a reason you don't mention. The LW8 upgrade wasn't just a pre-purchase, where they charge your credit card when they ship. They charged when you ordered, and used the DXF+ bundle as a justification. So, if you are a mac user and you upgraded early, you got nothing. And now, you find out that you've been penalized for upgrading early (while your money grows interest in someone elses account). I agree... all mac users who have already upgraded should be eligible for the Realviz deal. And I'm envious... those are good tools.

cheers,

j

Chuck
02-24-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by moovieboy
At the time, Chuck basically informed me that the deal was still incredible because, hell, I could just resell the DFX+ and make back the money on the upgrade!

Forgive me, but that didn't sound like a wonderful solution.

Yes, that was a boneheaded notion on my part and I've since apologized for it several times, and emphasized that the only reason to purchase the offer is if you want and can use DFX+. That was the intent with which we made the offer, and the only reason to buy.




But, at the same time, one gets that strange voice in the back of your head that says, "Well, you WERE looking at upgrading to LW8 anyway... It might be a crap deal, but it IS free... who knows, maybe DFX will port to OSX and you can upgrade..." and on and on. And with email announcements and postings that the DFX offer was going to end, well, then you are going to pressure some people to make an uninformed choice.

I may have missed it, so my apologies in advance, but I do not recall seeing a message from Newtek saying, "Hey Mac LW users, we're working hard on creating a similar bundle offer. No promises yet, but we're working on it." Again, sorry if I missed it...

You just missed it. I've lost track of how many times I said it, but I've been saying it pretty much since we opened up the DFX+ offer. It took a long time to get a partner willing to make a great offer with us, but we persisted, and the offer is now available.


I know there are PR and business reasons not to make such advance announcements, but still, imho, Newtek allowed its Mac base to falsely believe it was a choice of DFX or nothing. I mean, am I incorrect in thinking the whole RealViz bundle developed in part because of Mac users being a squeaky wheel demanding some grease?

As I mentioned above, we were letting folks know all along that we were working to find an offer for Mac users. We began exploring possibliities before the DFX+ offer was even announced.


Look, if some of you choose to liken users who complain to "children" then that makes Newtek the "parent."

That's the scariest idea I've heard lately. ;)


We're looking at options, but can't make any promises, as it is not something we are likely to be able to do given our obligations to the other vendors involved - as I've mentioned previously within the last few days.

robewil
02-24-2004, 11:06 AM
Hi Chuck,

First of all, I totally respect your involvement and your sincerity. I still believe that the whole promotional aspect of the Lightwave 8 upgrade was handled poorly, but I realize that there were no malicious intentions.

I appreciate the efforts in offering us users bonuses such as the DFX+ and now the RealViz deal and I certainly don't want to come across as a "whining child" :)

This mess (as I perceive it) has led me to believe that the smartest thing to do is to wait until the smoke clears before buying the upgrade. I know this is not what you would want but the ambiguities here force me to think this way. (How do I know an even better deal isn't coming after Mar. 21'st?)

I just hope this is a lesson learned by Newtek think these things through next time.

stef
02-24-2004, 03:52 PM
Totally agree with Robewil:
"I still believe that the whole promotional aspect of the Lightwave 8 upgrade was handled poorly, but I realize that there were no malicious intentions."

Chuck, I got my DFX the day RaealViz was announced.
NT's rep had known very well I was switching to windowz. I would have preferred at least to be advised and given a choice.
I do not want to return DFX (even if I could) since it is a great prog and will be useful to me once I get a PC (in 2-3 weeks).
I simply thought that a "sweatener" would not cost NT much to make me less dissatisfied with the whole process. Hence my request for the extra box of RV (at a nominal fee), which NT turned down.
Somewhat hurt feelings, since I am normally used to a better treatment by top-notch companies, that NT no doubt is, and do same for my own customers.
That's all, otherwise am looking very much forward to 8.

riki
02-24-2004, 05:22 PM
This latest Newsletter looks good. maybe March 21st as a release date?? Plus FREE special offer.

Sweet Stuff



LightWave 8.0 Pre-upgrade Special Offers to End on March 21, 2004

NewTek to offer Bonus to LightWave 8 Pre-upgraders


Hi, Folks!

NewTek will be bringing our current LightWave 3D® pre-release specials to a close on March 21st, 2004. If you want to take advantage of the opportunity to purchase a full seat or upgrade of NewTek's LightWave 3D [7.5] at regular price, and receive eyeon's DFX+(TM) and two add-on modules, $1785 in additional software FREE, March 21st is the deadline. This offer also includes a free upgrade to LightWave® [8] (on CD with electronic documentation) when LightWave 3D Eight ships.

Our new offer for Mac LightWave users is REALVIZ's Interactive Studio® bundle, FREE with purchase of a LightWave full seat or upgrade. Interactive Studio® consists of REALVIZ's Stitcher® 3.5, ImageModeler® 3.5, and [email protected]®, a $1500 value if purchased separately. The special offer is available through March 21, 2004, in North America and from participating international distributors for NewTek. This offer also includes a free upgrade to LightWave 3D Eight (on CD with electronic documentation) when LightWave 3D Eight ships.

These limited time offers end on March 21, 2004, so order now!

For those of you who have already purchased one of our special offers, later this week or early next week, as a gesture of appreciation for your order and your patience, NewTek will be sending news of a FREE bonus for you, while you await our release of LightWave 8. If you made your purchase through a reseller instead of directly with NewTek, please let your reseller know your current email address, so they can let us know, and we can make sure you receive your notice of this exciting FREE bonus.

NOTES: This special edition of eyeon's DFX+ Software runs under the Windows platform only, and is keyed to the LightWave dongle. Mac LightWave users who also have Windows platforms and who wish to purchase and use DFX+ with your Mac LightWave dongle must have the Duo USB dongle which runs on both Mac & PC. Users who want the capability to run DFX+ independent of their LightWave license may, prior to installing and registering the software, contact eyeon's Sales Department to purchase a dongle for DFX+.

For more information or to order these special offers, see: http://www.newtek.com/buynow/lw_products.html

You have received this email because you are a registered LightWave user. If you would prefer not to receive emails in the future, please email [email protected], and advise them to update your entry in the registration database with your preference.

Thank you for choosing LightWave!

NewTek Marketing

Beamtracer
02-24-2004, 06:31 PM
Moovieboy, I can verify that Chuck had previously announced that Newtek was looking for an alternate bundle offer for Mac users. There were numerous long threads about it.

I think in one thread (quite a long time ago) Chuck actually invited Mac users to suggest software that they'd like to have in a bundle offer. Many people suggested Realviz, along with other alternatives.

Everyone is free to wait until Lightwave 8 is released before purchasing it. You get to keep the money in your own bank account, earning interest.

As Chuck said, the only reason to pre-order is to take advantage of the bundle offers. If you didn't want DFX+, why did you order it?

I think some people are upset because they like the Realviz deal better than the DFX+ deal. I think that's just too bad.

Who knows what will happen after March 21. The current deals will expire. Maybe an even better deal will come along. Then again, maybe not. That's just the chance you take. If a better deal comes along later, you can't hand your Realviz stuff back.

I speculate that when LW8 is released, Newtek won't need to offer any bundle deals. LW8 will sell itself.

riki
02-24-2004, 06:41 PM
I have to congratulate myself here.

At some point I asked myself. "riki do you really want 'Def FX' (sorry DFX)"

I answerred "No!"

Aaah I just love it when my brain works. :)