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kurv
02-18-2004, 02:03 PM
Thought I would leak a tip to the group here to give you an example of the tips we have in the new LightWave 3D 8 1001 Tips and Tricks book from Wordware Publishing. For specials on this book please check out www.wordware.com/tnt (http://www.wordware.com/tnt)

Emanuele Salvucci Animating Inverse Kinematic Intermediate

Virtual Camera Dolly

Movie directors usually use dollies for their cameras. Actually we can approximately create a virtual dolly for our virtual camera doing the following operations in Layout starting from an empty scene:

- Move the Camera to the center of the grid (0,0,0) and create a keyframe at 0
- Add a Null object and create 4 clones (5 Null objects totally)
- Set Null (2) as Parent for Null (1), Null (3) as Parent for Null (2) and so on, leaving Null (5) free
- On Null (2) set Pitch Controller to Inverse Kinematic and set Keyframes for the other channel controllers
- On Null (3) set instead Heading Controller to Inverse Kinematic and the rest of controllers to Keyframes
- On Null (4) set Heading Controller to Align to Path and the rest of controllers to Keyframes
- Now parent the Camera to Null (1)
- Translate Null (1) on the Y axis. This distance represents the length of the first “arm” of our dolly
- Translate Null (2) on the Y axis as this will be the second arm of the dolly
- Translate Null (5) on the Z axis 3 meters, enough to see the dolly rotating
- Set Null (5) as Goal Object for Null (1) and turn Full-Time IK on for Null (1)
- Adjust the Camera Pitch angle to look at the Goal Object (Null (5))

Now that the dolly system is done let’s see how to control it.

First of all, none of the Null objects should have animated translations but Null (4) and the Camera. Null (4) in fact acts as the dolly rails (the heading direction is following the animation path’s orientation).

Null (5) is the main dolly controller as you can experiment by moving it around.

The Camera is actually totally free, so that you can add any other movement to the dolly action.

As you can notice, the second arm of our dolly ( Null (3) – Null (2)) isn’t rotating like the first arm ( Null (2) – Null (1)). To create an extensible second arm we can add the following expression to Null (3) Pitch channel:

((Null (5).wpos(Time)) - (Camera.wpos(Time)))*2

Where the subtraction result represents the distance between the Camera and the dolly IK goal with an arbitrary factor to enhance rotations.

Now you can see how the second arm is extending and retracting when Null (5) moves away and toward the Camera.

Versions 5.0 – 8. 11-15-2003

Thanks everyone!!! If you have questions post or email me at [email protected]

Get more info and special discount on this book at www.wordware.com/tnt (http://www.wordware.com/tnt)

gjjackson
02-18-2004, 04:58 PM
PreOrder.. Been there, Done that.

cresshead
02-18-2004, 05:06 PM
i've pre ordered mine...

after reading that splinegod and proton are involved it was a "no brainer"...simply HAD to get it.

also got 20 hours of splinegod training at the same time i ordered the book and had 25% knocked off the splinegod cdrom video trainging too!

go get 'em!

:D

steve g

lede
02-18-2004, 05:38 PM
Sound like a good book to get. Thanks for the preview tip on the dolly setup.

-Lee

riki
02-18-2004, 05:48 PM
Looks great plus free Respower time. I'll add this to my shopping list.

BTW the text on your site is a little messed up in my browser. I'm using NS7 on OS10.1.5

kurv
02-18-2004, 06:06 PM
And dont forget the 50.00 Tim buck thats ONLY good if you pre-order the book... :)

Thanks folks!!!

jr_sunshine
02-18-2004, 06:22 PM
Is this an example of what NewTek partners are having to do to keep interest in a post-missed-initial-release-"estimate"-for-LW-[8] world?

:D

kurv
02-18-2004, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
Is this an example of what NewTek partners are having to do to keep interest in a post-missed-initial-release-"estimate"-for-LW-[8] world?

:D

Yes we have... and we have more coming as well...

cresshead
02-18-2004, 06:33 PM
well i'd imagine that they'd like to ship the book as soon as..but need to wait for lw8 to appear..though to be fair the special offers were already in place at xmas time or there abouts..the only new thing is the leeked tip to keep interest high for the "to be released book"...sounds pretty fair to me..but hey i already pre ordered!...

going to be a great book by the looks of it...along with quite a few other books i'm about to order!

steve g

badllarma
02-18-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by wordwarepub
And dont forget the 50.00 Tim buck thats ONLY good if you pre-order the book... :)

Thanks folks!!!

Well ordered mine today to be honest have been P?*@ Off since I had my Inside Lightwave 8 ordered for my birthday (last October :rolleyes: ) and swore I'm not going to order sod all for Lightwave 8 until it's finally released, whenever that is :confused: but I'm wanting this book so I may as well take up the special.

All we need now is the bloody software :rolleyes:

jin choung
02-19-2004, 12:07 AM
howdy,

this is a great topic for a book and i'm really looking forward to it as well....

BUT

somebody please enlighten me to the value of recreating a dolly in 3d software!

what the hell for?!

dollies and booms and such were created to give real cameras with hundreds of pounds of real weight free and smooth movement in x,z and with a boom y directions... as well as hpb.

BUT WE HAVE COMPLETE LIBERTY WITH THESE ALREADY IN 3D!

so basically this was a lesson in parenting nulls with offsets... ?!?!?!

?!?!?!?!?!

jin

Limbus
02-19-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by jin choung

somebody please enlighten me to the value of recreating a dolly in 3d software!

what the hell for?!

Probably for people who are used to moving a camera with a dolly.

Florian

Tonton1
02-19-2004, 03:50 AM
It is useful for previs. You can create the shot and previs the camera movements as they will be with the real thing.

jin choung
02-19-2004, 04:01 AM
i guess....

but in that case, you'd have to be pretty specific on the dimensions of the particular rig you were gonna imitate and also at that point, it would be pretty self evident what you'd have to do....

?


jin

marc
02-19-2004, 04:52 AM
somebody please enlighten me to the value of recreating a dolly in 3d software!
...
BUT WE HAVE COMPLETE LIBERTY WITH THESE ALREADY IN 3D!

Here's what I read in 3D World Magazine ages ago. Simon Smith, head of layout at PDI at the time, talks about heightening the sense of realism by simulating a real cameraman:

"We don't do any camera moves that you couldn't do for real. Even for a big boom shot out of a castle, we measured it to ensure you could do it with a boom crane. [...] We take care not to use camera targets. [...] People are so educated to movie conventions now that we have to create this double bluff."

Marc

kurv
02-19-2004, 07:40 AM
Here is my opinion on the dolly tip.

The audience has been used to this type of camera movement in film so by easily simulating it ini 3D you get a more realistic, believeable scene.

more to come...

Limbus
02-19-2004, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by marc

"We don't do any camera moves that you couldn't do for real. Even for a big boom shot out of a castle, we measured it to ensure you could do it with a boom crane. [...] We take care not to use camera targets. [...] People are so educated to movie conventions now that we have to create this double bluff."


But no rule without exception. E.g. the scene in LOTR 1 at the end where everyone is running over the bridge and the camera circles above their head.

Florian

dwburman
02-19-2004, 12:51 PM
Those shots from LOTR (Mines of Moria and Sarumon's war factory) kind of pulled me out of the movie because I knew it was the kind of shot we try to avoid in 3D because it's physically impossible. I can't say it bothered me much the 6th time I saw the film though :)

archiea
02-19-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by wordwarepub
Thought I would leak a tip to the group here to give you an example of the tips we have in the new LightWave 3D 8 1001 Tips and Tricks book from Wordware Publishing. For specials on this book please check out www.wordware.com/tnt (http://www.wordware.com/tnt)

Emanuele Salvucci Animating Inverse Kinematic Intermediate

Virtual Camera Dolly

Movie directors usually use dollies for their cameras. Actually we can approximately create a virtual dolly for our virtual camera doing the following operations in Layout starting from an empty scene:

- Move the Camera to the center of the grid (0,0,0) and create a keyframe at 0
- Add a Null object and create 4 clones (5 Null objects totally)
- Set Null (2) as Parent for Null (1), Null (3) as Parent for Null (2) and so on, leaving Null (5) free
- On Null (2) set Pitch Controller to Inverse Kinematic and set Keyframes for the other channel controllers
- On Null (3) set instead Heading Controller to Inverse Kinematic and the rest of controllers to Keyframes
- On Null (4) set Heading Controller to Align to Path and the rest of controllers to Keyframes
- Now parent the Camera to Null (1)
- Translate Null (1) on the Y axis. This distance represents the length of the first “arm” of our dolly
- Translate Null (2) on the Y axis as this will be the second arm of the dolly
- Translate Null (5) on the Z axis 3 meters, enough to see the dolly rotating
- Set Null (5) as Goal Object for Null (1) and turn Full-Time IK on for Null (1)
- Adjust the Camera Pitch angle to look at the Goal Object (Null (5))

Now that the dolly system is done let’s see how to control it.

First of all, none of the Null objects should have animated translations but Null (4) and the Camera. Null (4) in fact acts as the dolly rails (the heading direction is following the animation path’s orientation).

Null (5) is the main dolly controller as you can experiment by moving it around.

The Camera is actually totally free, so that you can add any other movement to the dolly action.

As you can notice, the second arm of our dolly ( Null (3) – Null (2)) isn’t rotating like the first arm ( Null (2) – Null (1)). To create an extensible second arm we can add the following expression to Null (3) Pitch channel:

((Null (5).wpos(Time)) - (Camera.wpos(Time)))*2

Where the subtraction result represents the distance between the Camera and the dolly IK goal with an arbitrary factor to enhance rotations.

Now you can see how the second arm is extending and retracting when Null (5) moves away and toward the Camera.

Versions 5.0 – 8. 11-15-2003

Thanks everyone!!! If you have questions post or email me at [email protected]

Get more info and special discount on this book at www.wordware.com/tnt (http://www.wordware.com/tnt)

You hit a nerve there!!!

I've been looking up blueprints of common camera rigs, in an attempt to "build" some cameras to use in LW. I was really interested in creating cranes and dollies with some 'play" in them.... perhaps even using some of the dynamics in LW 8 to build a steady cam... the goal is to have a camera toolset database that I can choose from. I often hate Cg cameras with their physics defying cosmic zooms and fly bys.. I want a hand held looks, or a intertia-laden steadycam move... it really helps in adding production value to your shots.

Any chance that the author of this tip has already done this? it would be great to have an amercian cinematographer's handbook for LW....

riki
02-19-2004, 02:56 PM
Has anyone seen that Russian Movie, that's been getting rave reviews, the whole film was done in one take, no edits.

The point I'm trying to make is that the film industry is always trying to do the impossible.

Tonton1
02-20-2004, 04:54 AM
I've seen it, it's called Russian Ark and looks like a very long commercial for the Hermitage Museum in St.Petersburg with thousands of extras in period costumes and so on. Not so good considering who directed it (Alexander Sokurov).

There's another film in one take, in fact in four takes playing simultaneously on a split screen. It's called Timecode, by Mike Figgis. Haven't seen it.

And the first one to use that trick, although a bit faked, was Alfred Hitchcock in The Rope.

Sorry for all that info ;)

marc
02-20-2004, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by Tonton1
And the first one to use that trick, although a bit faked, was Alfred Hitchcock in The Rope.
I'm absolutely sure that the more modern "one-take-films" (or some pop promos) will have their fair share of faking, too.
Rope is at least fairly honest and it's easy to see where they had to change reels.

Marc

jin choung
02-22-2004, 02:38 AM
hello? wes? get any messages from me yet?

am i still getting filtered out by your spam blocker?

i only mention enlarging your breasts and penis pills once or twice in the body of the message... would that do it?

-------------------------------------------

as for one take films - THAT'S EASY. with modern HD cameras, i can do a one take film with no tricks whatsoever... 90min of pure real time baby. or i can even just sit in a theater and shoot a shakespeare play non stop to at least get a good story.

shooting a one take film is easy.

what's hard is shooting a one take film that has any kind of cinematic significance. ROPE is an awesome example not just of a single take but of cinema.... unbelievable pacing, cinematography and choreography.

actually, probably the easiest kind of film to do in one take would be a really excellent pornographic film - all the pacing is inherent at least. it would be excruciatingly difficult for the performers' endurance and perhaps stretch their creativity in performing a diversity of acts that would sustain audience interest for 90min... but as the director, that would not be my problem. they're actors. act damnit! and ACTION!

jin

jin choung
02-22-2004, 02:40 AM
oh yeah,

and rope does have TWO (or three?) INTENTIONAL CUTS that have all the greater effect because of their general absence in the movie.

one is a jimmy stewart reaction shot i think.

jin

cresshead
02-22-2004, 02:59 AM
yeah rope is cool...matter of fact hitchock is my fav director of all time..frenzy,birds,rear window,north by northwest...the list goes on to around about 50 films.

jin choung
02-22-2004, 03:13 AM
wow,

it's tough to pick a favorite director... and you almost HAVE to select from the earlier ones... cuz everyone after is just riffing on the predecessors anyway.

hmmmm, probably dw griffith (flawed and embarrassingly racist as he was) is the most important and really broke out with an attempt at a cinematic language.

i like what the russians had to say, i really like what the germans did - arguably the best silent cinema ever made - but if i had to pick a favorite director, i might pick kurosawa - who owes his work to john ford... see, even he's too late.... ah well.

i like ff coppola's early stuff in the 70s too... gfather 1 is still da bomb... as the kids say.

jin

Tom Wood
02-22-2004, 07:06 AM
Interesting factoid about Hitchcock, he started out as a storyboard artist. Which shows up in his ability to place a camera and frame a shot. So for anyone still in school wondering about the relevance of art, physics and plain old geometry, it all adds up!