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View Full Version : Worley has a Demo Posted



kml12
02-17-2004, 05:24 PM
http://www.worley.com/

Check it out...

ikaruz
02-17-2004, 05:59 PM
WOW, that's interesting. Wondering just how powerfull it is with different kind of scenes. Looks very promising :D can't wait for more info on it.

CB_3D
02-17-2004, 06:00 PM
:D

TSpyrison
02-17-2004, 06:52 PM
How the hell???

:D :confused: :D

hrgiger
02-17-2004, 06:55 PM
That's real time rendering for ya.

I'm sure that will be another $500 I wish I had.

milkman
02-17-2004, 06:57 PM
what was amazing was, (i thought) the F-Prime render looked better than LW's render.

Meaty
02-17-2004, 07:32 PM
holy crap

TyVole
02-17-2004, 08:01 PM
That plugin might change the world.

Wow.

prospector
02-17-2004, 08:02 PM
Probably usin a Quad Xeon and a 32X video card.

Tho it does make ya wonder why Newtek isn't doin something like that.
You would think that would be something basic.
They DO have the Viper.

papou
02-17-2004, 08:03 PM
Wow::::!! so fast!!
Huh!? It do the AA too?

hrgiger
02-17-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by prospector
Probably usin a Quad Xeon and a 32X video card.

Tho it does make ya wonder why Newtek isn't doin something like that.
You would think that would be something basic.



It probably has nothing to do with the video card.

And there's nothing basic about a real time renderer.

winged-cat
02-17-2004, 08:13 PM
-----Probably usin a Quad Xeon and a 32X video card. ----

Actually, looking at their test render of 51.6 sec, it compares on Chris's LW Benchmark site to a Dual Xeon 2.8 ghz (52 sec)... but I also have to wonder how much the rendering was slowed down by FPrime running in the background (as well as the capture software), so it may have been a faster machine.

Even so, it's still an impressive addition.

prospector
02-17-2004, 08:20 PM
No..I mean basic to the program of LW.

All viper needs to be same is camera movement like video and as small as Viper window is (150X200?)
it SHOULD render a lot faster than it does.
even if only 1 time AA would be great.

As the video shows movement in rather blocky pixels, it isn't doin the render full time.

Just seems that Viper should handle something like that.

prospector
02-17-2004, 08:30 PM
Looking at it again,
just before he renders it in LW, the FPrime screen really isn't that AA.
look when he is saving when small and when he expands frame.
It only truly clears AFTER the LW render.
Tho there the edge of the ball IS smoother than the LW render screen.

Don't get me wrong...
He did something not included in LW but dosen't look like realtime rendering.

Kvaalen
02-17-2004, 08:39 PM
Really cool!!! I wonder how it is done so fast?!?

I have a guess but I'd still like to hear others opinions. I'm guessing it might be done by creating maps for every channel (color, reflection, normals [very important for the lighting], refraction, diffuse, AA pixels [forgot what it is called]...) and from that it creates the render. This isn't a complete answer but it could have something to do with that. What do you all think?

BTW, Did you notice the F-Prime render is better AntiAliased after the LightWave render than before? I suppose that means it makes use of LightWaves renderer in a way. Maybe that means that you'd have to first render with LightWave before you can use it. But it is still a very awsome plugin!

nawDsign
02-17-2004, 08:43 PM
Mac version as well I hope.

:D :D

Psyhke
02-17-2004, 09:00 PM
F Prime version looks better than the LW render because the LW render was only 1 pass, no AA. But that just gives a hint as to how fast F Prime may be, since the F Prime render does look like it has AA, but hard to tell on low quality demo screen...

Definitely looks interesting, it's got my attention, waiting for more info.

Ade
02-17-2004, 09:14 PM
I guess it cant display radiosity or caustics?

What about raytraced shadows?

Importantly is it dual threaded?

I hope worley answers these questions.

Macet01
02-17-2004, 09:36 PM
I keep watching it and watching it and I just don't get how they are doing it. Does the plugin come with it's own water cooled Cray super computer? This has got to be one of the most amazing things I have seen anyone come out with.

The comment about this plugin changing the world doesn't even begin to describe what this will do.

***Trudges off to check bank account balance......I can live a few months on Raman Noodles to buy this!!!!

WilliamVaughan
02-17-2004, 09:47 PM
if you watch teh video Fprime renders before LW does....I think that is why he started with LW shut down so you can see the first thing he does is open Fprime before he does his first F9....amazing stuff!

js33
02-17-2004, 10:01 PM
I hope it will be able to save out a sequence even with no AA for fast preview renders. If it can do AA and save out a sequence then...slobber...slobber...drool...drool.....:D

Cheers,
JS

Ade
02-17-2004, 10:09 PM
My friend says there is a similar plugin on c4d called Sniper Pro and its free... How does it differ from this? Policarpo I think has commented on it before.

animotion
02-17-2004, 10:38 PM
This is the type of mind blowing stuff that should be in LW8!. Right NewTek?!

WilliamVaughan
02-17-2004, 10:41 PM
I think LightWave Eight should ship with every Dr. Seuss book and toy....that would blow my mind!

animotion
02-17-2004, 10:46 PM
Right you are Mr. Proton! actually LW8 is more than worth the upgrade price already.IMHO;)

Hervé
02-17-2004, 11:15 PM
and that new deal to boost Mac sales is terrific....

Now on Worley.... I have an idea... you know when he shows the Fprime window at the end to compare with the real render of LW... well all the time the Fprime window is hidden, so I think it's a bit like the Stratavision old days, when you render, it starts with huge blocks, and the more you wait, the more the blocks are subdivided in smaller ones.....

0,0000001 cent

A Mejias
02-17-2004, 11:38 PM
Very cool. Looks like hardware rendering to me. It would be nice if HW rendering were already built into LW.

Anyone remember RenderGL? ;)

Mylenium
02-17-2004, 11:55 PM
It's got nothing to do with hardware. I'm definitely sure about that. Mr. Worley isn't that stupid to get himself into trouble there (infinite possible combinations of hardware are prone to errors and thus people would complain all the time). From a technical point of view I think it's just a very clever implementation of recent discoveries in rendering algorithms. It's kind of a variation on bucket/ chunk based rendering but with taking 3D space into account even before firing the first ray in the scene. And it's extremely optimized ;o)

Mylenium

js33
02-18-2004, 12:39 AM
Why can't we have this in LW instead of the crappy Viper?
Well Viper is useful for seeing animated textures and HV's but that is about all.

Cheers,
JS

Hervé
02-18-2004, 12:43 AM
well now with this plugin, it is going to be possible....

I wonder if it's a goal of NT to not incorporate expensive toys to keep lw's price low...?

js33
02-18-2004, 12:51 AM
Probably but I think this is the kind of thing that should come in 8.
But Worley has been making some sweet plugins for quite awhile now so there is no reason for them to stop now. I wonder how much it will cost and it it takes the place of G2?

Cheers,
JS

Hervé
02-18-2004, 12:58 AM
yes, right, but I also wonder why Worley has not implemented it inside G2....

hrgiger
02-18-2004, 01:44 AM
If it turns out to be a true real time renderer and even if it does cost $500-$800, Lightwave 8 and F Prime will be an amazing combo and will probably cause a good number of people to switch to Lightwave. I'd almost consider Animation Master again if it had a real time renderer. I can't wait to see more of F Prime.

Nemoid
02-18-2004, 01:50 AM
I think he didn't add to G2 because mainly G2 is a shader wich works after, in the rendering to get what you see in its fantastic preview. you also can add it to different surfaces.

FPrime seems to be an enhanced rendering preview for all elements of your scene.
as for blocky pixels it also depends on machine power, IMO. usually Worley test his creations on low power machines, so that he's sure that all works rockin' great in normal ones as will surely be. :D

Hervé
02-18-2004, 01:52 AM
coool, I cant wait a new demo.....

nixx
02-18-2004, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by proton
if you watch teh video Fprime renders before LW does....I think that is why he started with LW shut down so you can see the first thing he does is open Fprime before he does his first F9....amazing stuff!

*Exactly*, people seem to be missing that part ! He started LW, loaded the scene, hit F Prime, and in one or two seconds there was a render !

Also, correct me if I 'm wrong, but even if he is using a dual CPU machine for the demo, he's only rendering on one thread. If he was using two, LW's render preview would be split in half and we would watch the upper and lower half render simultaneously. As it is now, it looks as if the rendering is done on one thread.

nick

Exper
02-18-2004, 02:54 AM
Great stuff! :D

mr_nebel
02-18-2004, 03:35 AM
I just made a speed comparison and made the same changes to the scene and rendered and it came out at 42secs and thats on a relatively modest AMD 2200XP+ so his machine can't be that higher spec.

BTW i think i just about fell out of my chair watching that demo, then i did a little dance of joy

Kvaalen
02-18-2004, 03:52 AM
Right Chuck once said that every part of LightWave will get worked on during the 8 cycle? Well if they intergrate this that would save them from having to enhance the renderer and VIPER which would give them more time to work on modeler. :)

I doubt they would do that, it's their style to implant plugins but not Worley's (unless it is a lite version).

-EsHrA-
02-18-2004, 04:21 AM
i bet it also does radiosity cuz i found something similar allready excisting for c4d...

http://www.tools4d.com/SniperPro/sniperclips.htm




mlon

mr_nebel
02-18-2004, 04:23 AM
Can you imagine, G2lite and FPrimelite. *drool*

We can but dream.

anyone else notice the FP in F Prime, as well as it sounding like F9.

hmmm way too tired for this

-EsHrA-
02-18-2004, 04:24 AM
ooh and it does AA and there will be a MAC version too > read it on cgtalk.


mlon

CB_3D
02-18-2004, 04:58 AM
LOL, i´ll get it out of my own pocket and will leave my boss wondering how i cut production time of our Archi-previs to a tenth. :D :eek:

cresshead
02-18-2004, 05:00 AM
NOTE that the cinema 4d plugin preview renderer is NOT free..but costs 69 euro's

http://www.tools4d.com/toshop/goshop.htm


..i'm still waiting to get the video downloaded from worley!

cresshead
02-18-2004, 05:19 AM
okay..seen it now..VERY nice...and **** fast!
wonder where they'll price it?

if it's low enough i can see 90% of L wavers getting it...if it's $500 then it'll shrink the market...

it's a fine balance...good luck!

let's hope it does radiosity too...

Barred
02-18-2004, 05:29 AM
Any idea what codec the demo is using guys?

mattclary
02-18-2004, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Mylenium
It's got nothing to do with hardware. I'm definitely sure about that. Mr. Worley isn't that stupid to get himself into trouble there (infinite possible combinations of hardware are prone to errors

Not if you use standard APIs available on modern video cards. That's what hardware rendering is all about, harnessing the power of modern GPUs. When it comes to this crap they can beat a CPU any day.

Bet you dollars to donuts it IS hardware rendering handled by the video card.

samartin
02-18-2004, 05:34 AM
they're using the divx codec...

xeno3d
02-18-2004, 05:58 AM
I can;t wait to see how much this bad boy is.. :D

Barred
02-18-2004, 06:27 AM
Thanks Sam.

Nice, another tool to add to the list :D

lunarcamel
02-18-2004, 07:09 AM
Pretty neat. I've seen something like this before for another app.

It still doesn't change the fact that LW's renderer is painfully unoptimized. Plus once you start doing the math of how many plugins you need to buy from Worley to make LW a "full" package you've pretty much blown the bank.

art
02-18-2004, 07:17 AM
I think that one of the important statistics to look at is not only the absolute renderind time of FPrime and trying to figure out what machine it ran on, but the actual ratio of FPrime vs. LW rendering time. Whether it is the quad 2.4 gig xeon rigs or [email protected], the ratio will probably remain in the same range. So while it migh not be exactly real time on slower machines, it could mean 1minute vs. 30minutes for example.
Needless to say, Fprime is very fast.

Exper
02-18-2004, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by art
... but the actual ratio of FPrime vs. LW rendering time...art...
you've caught the flag.

FPrime is really fast... hoping it'll have an affordable price and it'll support Radiosity, Caustics and HV/Volumetrics as well! :cool:

Bye.

dwburman
02-18-2004, 07:52 AM
But if it is hardware rendering (possibly through something using nVidia's Cg: http://developer.nvidia.com/page/cg_main.html) then the render time is less dependent on CPU speed. That means a slow system and a fast system with the same GPU won't be as different as you might think.

But this is just speculation on my part.

Ade
02-18-2004, 08:16 AM
Ive mentioned before nvidia is working with maya and c4d for hardware shader support that LW should have too.

I also asked what does Sniper pro do compared to FPrime, i know policarpo has commented on it before, I hope hes reading now...

Dual support ould be nice to have, as well as hardware support.
I dont understand though how it can preview radiosity when things like that need to be continuously calculated.

art
02-18-2004, 08:20 AM
dwburman, I guess you just confirmed my point. The actual rendering time is not as important (because it might possibly similiar on old and new machines if they use gpu power) as the actual gain (ratio) over the native LW renderer.

Para
02-18-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by dwburman
But if it is hardware rendering (possibly through something using nVidia's Cg: http://developer.nvidia.com/page/cg_main.html) then the render time is less dependent on CPU speed. That means a slow system and a fast system with the same GPU won't be as different as you might think.

Actually Cg is too SLOW (and not accurate enough( for any real time stuff like that :)

Seriously, even GLSL in this point is faster than Cg (I'd say about 25% faster) and pure DX shaders are notificially faster (now we're talking about 40-70% difference here). This was discussed a long time ago in CGtalk :)

Alan Daniels
02-18-2004, 08:50 AM
If the price is decent, I'll buy this in a heartbeat. Just hope it's not $500...

Ade
02-18-2004, 08:53 AM
I just made a summary of everyones questions and emailed em to Worley... Lets hope they respond...:cool:

sadkkf
02-18-2004, 09:06 AM
Let's see...

I have a job authoring CDs to pay for the things I need to live.

I do freelance video and 3D work for fun, which pays for itself.

I now need a third job to pay for the tools I use for fun. :rolleyes: :)

3Demon
02-18-2004, 11:36 AM
Hey Guys,

...

cross-posting, hijacking post has been removed.
AAAND...at no extra charge, this user has been banned. ;)

Muad'dib
02-18-2004, 03:15 PM
Mr Worley - you sure have my attention :)
Simply stunning stuff - can't wait for more details.

papou
02-18-2004, 06:51 PM
FPrime second video is up!
look like we don't want to use Viper anymore.
How can it be so fast?! a must have.

:D :D :D

hrgiger
02-18-2004, 06:57 PM
That second video is absolutely stunning. Having 3 render windows all open at the same time all rendering in near real time. Holy Schnikes! This is going to change the way people work in Lightwave forever. If you can afford whatever they're going to charge for F prime anyway...

Psyhke
02-18-2004, 07:19 PM
Simply amazing.

I'm chompin' at the bit to find out more though. There's got to be some limitations-- i.e. what about:

-Hypervoxels?
-Radiosity?
-Will it work with depth of field (native or plugins)?
-Work with cel shading?
-Can it turn out an image sequence for animation easily?
-Can it produce that *very same* high-quality results as native LW for final images and animations, or is it geared for previewing (albiet pretty high quality as we've seen so far)?

Regardless of the answers to these, it already appears to be a huge time-saver...

:D :D :D :D (4 smilies out of 5...so far)

Xacto
02-18-2004, 07:20 PM
:eek:

OMG! Can it get any better?

TSpyrison
02-18-2004, 07:35 PM
Oh man..

Something else for me to start begging my boss to buy me..

js33
02-18-2004, 08:11 PM
Worley is friggin awesome. :D
I sure hope this thing will save out a sequence. Since it will save out a frame it seems saving out a sequence shouldn't be a problem. Even if it won't it will save out a sequence it will save you the most time just getting the surfaces correct. It also seems to make his G2 plugin rather redundant.

Cheers,
JS

ikaruz
02-18-2004, 08:11 PM
:eek: That second video is amazing. It just seems too good to be true, please tell me I'm not dreaming.
I'm sold. :D, just tell me how much and when? :D

I haven't used G2 at all, but how does it differ from the real time(or neal real time) previews G2 has?

FPrime looks amazing, Worely did a great job.

Edit: By the way did you guys see the screencap JPG that's there as well!!!

Meaty
02-18-2004, 08:31 PM
good god that looks amazing... if that supports volumetrics and radiosity, i will give worley... umm... proton's right arm (i need mine for the mouse) :D

Muad'dib
02-18-2004, 08:54 PM
I reckon Worley is still toying with our feelings tho - and the knockout punch of Prime is yet to come. I hope so anyway ;)

I tip my hat off to all the hard working revolutionaries at Worley - keep the wows coming :D

js33
02-18-2004, 10:56 PM
Also noone has mentioned, at least I don't think so, that Worley is using Lightwave 8 in these FPrime demos. :D

Now with this FPrime (does the FP stand for Floating Point? methinks so) thing it makes me want 8 even more.

Cheers,
JS

mgreenway
02-19-2004, 02:04 AM
Another amazing thing is how few people there are that know what G2 can do.

Or better, how many people there are that don't know what G2 can do.

The price? Can't be the product for G2 is amazing in its own right.

Hervé
02-19-2004, 02:19 AM
incredible !:cool:

mr_nebel
02-19-2004, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by js33
Also noone has mentioned, at least I don't think so, that Worley is using Lightwave 8 in these FPrime demos. :D

Now with this FPrime (does the FP stand for Floating Point? methinks so) thing it makes me want 8 even more.

Cheers,
JS

Actually the title bar says he's running it in 7.5c :D

samartin
02-19-2004, 03:28 AM
The 1st video was done with 7.5, the latest and seems to be greatest is LW8. Someone asked a question about NT opening up the renderer in v8, I doubt it as it was working in 7.5 in yesterdays video. Can't wait to try this puppy out tho'...

3Ddemon
02-19-2004, 03:37 AM
SPAM removed by moderator Kurtis.
Both of his user accounts have been banned already.

dilaima
02-19-2004, 06:42 AM
can we ask if this powerfull tool, is a renderer engine or raytracer only, that work better with transp, refl, and refraction?
can it handle all lw features and shaders?
can it produce animation?
did it have orthogonal rendering?
:D
i know it's a long list but, when i saw the videos, i can't resist to ask for more.
thaks Mr. WORLEY for this developping.

CB_3D
02-19-2004, 08:05 AM
asking is easy, getting answers on the other hand...:rolleyes:

anyway, this thing smells like major revolution.

dwburman
02-19-2004, 08:26 AM
With G2 you have to render (F9) a frame before you see the preview. You CAN see surface changes but you have to make them in the G2 shader not LW's Surface editor. G2's preview is great for setting up lights and also defining how light effects a surface. It is a LOT more than simply a real time preview plug-in though that's mostly what I've used it for.

I do wonder how it works with shaders, etc.



Originally posted by ikaruz

I haven't used G2 at all, but how does it differ from the real time(or neal real time) previews G2 has?

Carbon71
02-19-2004, 08:36 AM
Jesus! I just watched the 1st and 2nd video. OMG

How the hell does this thing work?! Is this (video card) hardware rendering?

This could speed the hell out of my rendering pipeline. I hope a demo comes out soon. I'd love to replace viper.

Carbon

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 10:47 AM
Well I hope that it's a functional alternative to the LW render engine. Even if it's not 100% accurate, it would be a powerful alternative to the exisiting solution...

Arlen

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 11:19 AM
You know... it just dawned on me, FPrime might only be a 32 bit renderer and not 192 such as LW.

That might account for the increase in speed. LW native render engine is the only one that is completely suitable for film work being able to produce HDR images natively.

Just a thought.

Arlen

JCG
02-19-2004, 01:06 PM
just dawned on me, FPrime might only be a 32 bit renderer and not 192 such as LW Maybe but, if you check on the second video, at 2:06, one of the formats you can save the image as is cineon FP...

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 02:47 PM
Ah... I AM blind. My wife is right. Damn!

Arlen
(needs new glasses desperately)

cresshead
02-19-2004, 04:47 PM
whatever it turns out to be it's definatley zero on the kelvin scale
....VERY COOL!

and reading the specs for the demo machine really does understate the power of this plugin...

Chris S. (Fez)
02-19-2004, 04:52 PM
Does this mean G2 won't be supported any more?

harlan
02-19-2004, 05:11 PM
Why would that mean that G2 is no longer supported? FPrime appears to be a completely different product.

While all the speculation regarding FPrime is exciting, I think we're going a little overboard (almost like an Apple rumor site).

Based on the available information, I'd say that FPrime isn't a new rendering engine, rather it's a replacement for Viper (however mucho mucho better).

As far as to why the FPrime image looked better after the F9 preview render in the first video; I'd say it's because FPrime is 'adaptively' (for lack of a better term) rendering the image. So, while the FPrime window was out of view, we didn't see it "refreshing" it's window.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade. A renderer from Worley would be terrific - intelligent minds like Steve's are few and far between and I'd love to see him develop a renderer. Although, why reinvent the wheel. There are a plethora of incredible render engines out there that could easily be plugged into LW if NewTek provided a way to do so.

kfiram
02-19-2004, 05:39 PM
Note the term "FPrime Renderer" (with a Capital 'R') -
That suggessts that it is, indeed, a renderer, and not just a preview tool.

harlan
02-19-2004, 05:48 PM
Sorry, you're absolutely right...the page has once again been updated with new information.

I probably could have worded my post a little differently however, as even if FPrime is nothing more than a Viper replacement, it would still be utilizing its own render engine I believe.

I just meant that it doesn't seem that FPrime would be a full on renderer (as in the likes of Brazil, or whatever).

Harlan

hrgiger
02-19-2004, 05:55 PM
Yes, sounds like a renderer to me. And it sounds to me from the new description he just put up on the website a little bit ago, it doesn't sound like it's going to be ridiculously priced.

From Worley:

Since there's nothing like this tool in LightWave 8, and we're confident the FPrime renderer is something every LightWave user (both 7 and 8) will demand, our pricing is designed to make the decision easy. It's also a great way for us to celebrate Worley Labs's 10 year anniversary with you! *

hrgiger
02-19-2004, 06:01 PM
By the way, the new video is pretty astounding. And I thought the last one was good...

nixx
02-19-2004, 06:04 PM
And I believe it does, after all, make use of the video card's GPU. Why else would mr. Worley mention the kind of video card in his demo configuration description ?

I could still be wrong though, of course. Man, watching this video I couldn't help thinking that this is not real-time rendering... It's real-time Lightwaving :)

nick

hrgiger
02-19-2004, 06:10 PM
I think he just mentioned the video card to prove that there's nothing special about the machine he's using. Could be though.

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 06:12 PM
Well, I think my dream has come true with a new render engine for LW and it appears to be a FP engine as well.

I hate to speculate, so I'll just say I can't wait!!!!

Arlen

js33
02-19-2004, 06:22 PM
Ade emailed Worley and posted this in another thread.

* Whats the minimum hardware support?

No special hardware is needed. for FPrime. The demo scenes were made on an
Athlon purchased early in 2003. The video card is a GeForce4 Ti 4200/64 MB

I have the same video card so I'm all set anyway. Man I wish Worley had made this about 5 years ago but I'll take it now.

Man Steve will be set for life once this thing is released. :D

Cheers,
JS

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by js33
Ade emailed Worley and posted this in another thread.Man I wish Worley had made this about 5 years ago but I'll take it now.
Cheers,
JS

Yeah no kidding. It's funny though, I had started a thread a week or so back talking about the need for a 3rd party render engine for LW. Little did I know...

Arlen

Tim Parsons
02-19-2004, 07:45 PM
WOW !!! This latest video tells a lot, but not everything. If you think about workflow only and not even include the fact that you can save this as your final render, this tool is amazing! We haven't seen area lights with soft shadows, radiosity, etc. But even if this new tool does not support those features it will save time in a major way! Real-time surfacing, light set-ups etc. Maybe now we can setup fake radiosity lights without all the test renders to see what we get! One thing I am still not quite sure about is where this leaves G2. Light setups is where I mainly use G2 and I only go into the surfaces to tweak a channel, set shadow opacity and other minor tweaks. What we have seen here over these past several days is all of that and then some. Looks like in my case, for my purposes, G2 will be relegated to the no longer used Worley Lab plug-in bin, along with Polk, Taft and Gaffer. But you know what, that's OK!! Partly because the money for these cool plug-ins has never come out of my pocket, but most importantly Mr. Worley has always come through for us and allowed us to solve a problem or improve our productivity. G2 is unbelievable!!! , and it looks like FPrime justs ups the ante. Personally I don't really care if it's not a "real-time" renderer, if it allows me to setup and see what I'm going to get before I hit F9, I'll be happy.

Tim

fabmedia
02-19-2004, 07:49 PM
Tim,

If you watch the 2nd video very closely, you will notice that there is G2 surfacing implement within the skin.

Arlen

Tim Parsons
02-19-2004, 09:16 PM
I see that. The point I was trying to make was that FPrime really seems to overlap the functionality of G2 in a big way. Especially in the areas of how I use G2. I think there will still be a market for G2, but not at the current $495 price. And according to Mr. Worley's statement about getting this in the hands of as many users as possible with regards to price, he (IMHO) would have to bring it to market at $200-$300. Now where does that leave G2. Certainty not worth $495 anymore. If he brings FPrime to market at $800+ then he still has a market for G2, but then that somewhat counters his statements. I think this is a case where Mr. Worley learned a few tricks developing G2, he knew he had a great product as it was, and brought it to market to fund his continuing research. FPrime is the result. Now his only problem (small one) is fitting it in with his other products, in regards to price etc.


Tim

js33
02-19-2004, 09:37 PM
I think he will do something like offer a basic version of FPrime for $200-300 and then combine a more robust version with G2 features and still sell that for $495. That would make sense and G2 wouldn't get pushed aside.

Cheers,
JS

jamesl
02-20-2004, 12:10 AM
...G2 is more of a renderer upgrade than this is. FPrime seems to speed up the native LW renderer, with tags to G2 if you own it, but G2 is a more robust renderer than Lw's native setup. But Tim is right, if all you use G2 for is quick lighting setups, then you might just put that in the bottom drawer (but I'm guessing that won't stop you from buying this plugin too, which is what Steve Worley is probably thinking too). That said, maybe it's time you started looking into what G2 can do -besides- quick lighting setups.

:p

j

Hervé
02-20-2004, 01:27 AM
Aaaaahhhh (need to screammm !), the third video is almost.... insane... totally incredible...

If you look closely the beginning of that demo (3) you'll discover that the FPrime window is open before the actual model is loaded, and the FPrime window starts to show the render even before you could see the wireframe loaded in Layout.... too good... hit me in the face please I am dreaming and this is insane....

Will I wake up tomorrow and discover I was on acid for a week or what...?

Add to that the New Newtek/Realviz offer, and you're in Alice in wonderland.... :cool:

private
02-20-2004, 06:56 AM
I have a feeling FPrime won't just be exclusively for Lightwave. It makes senses, as many competitors are producing modeling and animating packages, a renderer or realtime preview module will fit in nicely with Lightwave, and just like other plugin makers, like Joe Alter etc, he could port this over to other packages. If the price is lower, as some of the comments suggest, and it's going to multiple packages, Mr. Worley will be making more money.

Yog
02-20-2004, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by private
I have a feeling FPrime won't just be exclusively for Lightwave. It makes senses, as many competitors are producing modeling and animating packages, a renderer or realtime preview module will fit in nicely with Lightwave, and just like other plugin makers, like Joe Alter etc, he could port this over to other packages. If the price is lower, as some of the comments suggest, and it's going to multiple packages, Mr. Worley will be making more money.

I think Worley may already be ahead of you on this.
Acording to Luxology they alread have a "strategic relationship" with Worley Labs.

The more great 3rd party plug-ins like this that are available for a range of 3D programs, the more choice us users have. :)

CB_3D
02-20-2004, 08:45 AM
To be interesting as a 3rd party standalone renderer it would have to handle the full kaboom, like radiosity etc etc..

I am really curious to get more info on this little marvel.

Yog
02-20-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by CB_3D
To be interesting as a 3rd party standalone renderer it would have to handle the full kaboom, like radiosity etc etc..


The lighting (including radiosity) would in relative terms be the easy part.

The hard bit about being a true standalone 3rd party renderer would be in being able to handle each hosts version of materials/shaders/textures/surfaces.
In the end it may end up easier to go the same route PMG did and have all the surfacing/ materials handled in a propriety way as well. Although I can see a lot of people who have spent years becoming proficient at surfacing in one program, being reluctant to drop all that and learn to do it in another program.

CB_3D
02-20-2004, 09:18 AM
True.

That´s why i think there´s a higher probability of it being a full LW renderer replacement than a general one.

lwlurker
02-20-2004, 10:48 AM
Could you marry this technology to a game engine? It seems this could be a huge step towards getting more detail in game objects, without bring frame-rate down to a crawl.

JDaniel
02-20-2004, 08:49 PM
This should be the camera view for an option. :eek: