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prospector
02-17-2004, 10:19 AM
Just ordered Dans book for LW8 (well wife did for birthday)
and it wasn't an easy decision to decide to get book or another computer.

But it says it will deliver between the 26th and 28th of this month.

If book is coming out then LW8 should also be coming out.

I mean...how can you have a LW8 book without LW8 to follow along??:D

Ramon
02-17-2004, 10:35 AM
Well, that does sound encouraging. Hope your assumption is correct.

tomtm
02-17-2004, 01:31 PM
Hi,

I think it won't be before of end of March, beause
Newtek now started a new promo with the realviz stuff.

And what does it means, when the promo ends? Nothing, because Newtek loves to annouce new promos with new
deadlines.....

It's a very bad step forward, because a lot of us bought
LW 8 six monthes ago.....

Greets
Tom

dablan
02-17-2004, 02:21 PM
Hey guys -
thanks for the book support!

The book won't be ready until at least late May, once it's edited and printed. But it all depends on the release of 8.

But rest easy young grasshoppers, all will be worth the wait.

prospector
02-17-2004, 03:52 PM
MAY ???
WHUUAAAA !!!

Shoulda got my new compy...for my birthday

then

I coulda ordered the book fo the wife on hers, but she don't need it so she woulda gave it to me.

Then I woulda got BOTH

bill0287
02-17-2004, 04:06 PM
I think maybe everyone who purchased the LW special offer when it originally was made available should receive a full boxed version with printed docs for the inconvenience of the wait.

I mean, Newtek talked me (sort of) into buying the upgrade at the time because it was supposed to end soon, and the software would be available by the end of the year. Then they kept extending the offer over and over and the software is still no where in sight.

I almost feel like I helped fund the development for 6-9 months.

How about it Newtek?

jfrith
02-18-2004, 05:56 PM
Looks like someone has been reading my posts in comp.graphics.apps.lightwave :)

We are customers, not investors... yet we were charged months in advance for the LW8 upgrade. The least Newtek can do is send us all the boxed version with a printed manual.

Mr. Limpet
02-18-2004, 10:46 PM
I am a newbie to the forums here but have been using Lightwave for a couple of years to do graphics and effects to supplement video programs that I edit in AVID and Final Cut Pro. I also do some sound mixing in ProTools and have been a full time editor for nearly 20 years, so I think I have been around the block a bit.

I own Dan Ablans' Lightwave 6 book, and it's great, but when I saw his new book release time frame and a sort of apologist statement for NewTek's behavior with regard to the Lightwave 8 release I felt I had to vent.

Like many here, I purchased the 8 upgrade months ago and have waited...

and waited...

and waited...

I still run 7.5 but... Does the word "UNPROFESSIONAL" come to mind?

A number of people have express "apologist" statements sympathetic to NewTek
concerning the length of time that has passed since 8 was available for advance purchase.

BUNK!

Many of us work under deadlines everyday to get things to our clients as promised. Since NewTek does not seem to grasp the concept of deadlines, I include these definitions courtesy of Dictionary.com:

dead·line
1. A time limit, as for payment of a debt or completion of an assignment.
2. A boundary line in a prison that prisoners can cross only at the risk of being shot.

dead·lined, dead·lin·ing, dead·lines
3. To govern by setting a time limit: “He was never going to be deadlined by a day, or even a month” (New Yorker).


Deadlines are a kind of promise to the customer, they keep everybody honest. Without them people will take their own sweet time and feel no sense of urgency to complete a project.

Now some here have said that software development can't be rushed.
Well, I have another word for you.

Communication

Probably the biggest part of the dissatisfaction over the delivery of 8 has been the fact that NewTek has layed out no timeframe for delivery and has refused to make any meaningful commmitment that would help people to plan their work/business choices.

They refuse to do this because:

1. Communication with customers might mean having to commit to a delivery schedule which would then force them to have a time limit (see Definition 3)...

2. Which would result in having to deliver to their frustrated customers who shelled out the money months ago (see Definition 1) and prevent customers from acting out on their feelings (see Definition 2).

Now, let us look at a great example of what should be happening.
I own a small ProTools system so I am on the Digidesign website alot.
They recently rolled out OSX and Panther upgrades to their systems.
More than 2 months before the upgrade delivery, Digidesign prominently placed on their website a detailed 3 phase plan for upgrading the various systems they sell.

Guess what happened.

They delivered on schedule.

Now when Digidesign made that announcement I was sure sore that I wasn't going to see the upgrades for a couple of months, but at least I felt a whole lot better and could make plans for some equipment upgrades that I needed to do.

There may be extenuating circumstances as to why Lightwave 8 is taking so long, but there are absolutely no excuses for leaving their customers in the dark.

1. No trade secrets would be revealed.
2. Users could plan accordingly.
3. It would put NewTek under a fair and appropriate level of pressure to wrap it up.

That's my take.

One last thing.
Lightwave has always seemed to be a great professional piece of software, but this situation takes me back when NewTek sold products not on features and merits, but on how high up Kiki Stockhammer's dress was going to be cut at NAB.

A dishonest and crap way of doing business.

Out.

j3st3r
02-19-2004, 01:55 AM
Hot subject! But you are absolutely right. My company purchased two seats of LW (instead of one XSI) because I told them that how LW8 will change our workflow in the end of 2003. Then I said, ooops, I was wrong, it`s in the Q12004...then I said, ooops, it`s later this year....

Now they wish if I asked them for XSI. Me too...Sad...I am a fullhearted LW user, but with this situation my thinking is changing rapidly.

WizCraker
02-19-2004, 10:48 AM
Wonder if Softimage will still have their trade in deal going when 8 ships.

nlightuk
02-20-2004, 03:50 AM
So much has been said on this thread already, I am not gonna waste time repeating stuff.

However, I agree in general with the complaints about delays.

I know when Newtek closed down the "new features" for LW 8 at which point the product went into a bugtest/bugfix-only cycle.

Being involved in software development, I have to say that newtek were unwise at best to announce a release date without making sure they could meet that date. Vaporware is the word that sprinbgs to mind...

I like may others paid to upgrade, and got a "free" copy of DFX+ with my upgrade. I would have much preferred the Realviz bundle that is now being offered as an alternative, but have no option to return my copy of DFX+ and get the Realviz bundle instead.

I agree with the sentiments about boxed copies of the product. I have even gone so far as to suggest to others that beta versions should be made available to registered upgrade owners, in the meanwhile. Maybe that would help speed up the beta to gold code phase of the product rollout?

Anyway - not gonna rant, just dunno how much longer I can wait thassall.... :rolleyes:

prospector
02-20-2004, 07:06 AM
Very Strange DAN,
I just got a conformation e-mail from Amazon yesterday that I will recieve your book the end of this month.

Are you sending me a 'beta' version of your book???:D

I know thier wrong..BUT..
Strange way for Amazon to keep insisting it's coming:)

Boy, I can hardly wait......

till may;)

dablan
02-20-2004, 09:32 AM
The end of THIS month?
I don't think so.

There's a chance it could be the Killer Tips book - but not really. That is at the printer, but the end of the month is next week.

Amazon has millions of products. It's hard for them to keep on top of all of it :)

WizCraker
02-20-2004, 11:25 AM
Why is that books on Lightwave are never released before the software is? I mean I have seen books on other software on the shelves and then a month or so later the software shows up.

dablan
02-20-2004, 11:32 AM
We can, but we choose not to, simply because we want to make sure that everything is in-line with the software. NewTek makes changes until the last minute, which is fine. We just need to make sure everything lines up. Other companies work differently, and don't add as many new features as NewTek does, making book pre-production a little easier.

Beyond that, I think there are legal issues.

WizCraker
02-20-2004, 01:26 PM
I see


Originally posted by dablan
Beyond that, I think there are legal issues.

I guess the Freedom of press was thrown out the window on this one then.

mkiii
02-20-2004, 01:41 PM
I think that refers to *the* Press, rather than any press.....

Either way, if you sign an NDA, in order to get juicy info up front for your book, then break it by releasing the info early, you aint gonna be Mr popular at the next Newtek wine & cheese evening are you?

prospector
02-20-2004, 02:02 PM
Dan

The end of THIS month?

Feb this year 25th to 28th in my hot little hands:)
The inside Lightwave 8

I don't think so.

Me neither
And as you are the one doing the book, I would believe you before them.


But you didn't answer the Beta book question...
HMMM that a tip?
A non answer can be as telling as an answer;)

So when can I expect my Beta ver of the book:confused: :cool: :D :D :D :D

I mean you DO need proof readers right??right??;)

chilledaqua
02-20-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by j3st3r
Hot subject! But you are absolutely right. My company purchased two seats of LW (instead of one XSI) because I told them that how LW8 will change our workflow in the end of 2003. Then I said, ooops, I was wrong, it`s in the Q12004...then I said, ooops, it`s later this year....

Now they wish if I asked them for XSI. Me too...Sad...I am a fullhearted LW user, but with this situation my thinking is changing rapidly.

I too purchased lightwave 8 because i saw the features and they would seem to enhanse my workflow greatly. because of this delay and no news from newtek i have been thinking on just using xsi. i dont think professional software companies should have professional clients that just have to cross their fingers and hope that it will come out today or tomorrow or the next day or.. next month. it's coming towards the end of february 2004... my prediction is that lightwave 8 wont even be out march 1st

dablan
02-20-2004, 04:08 PM
I'm not trying to start anything, but users bi*ch if the software doesn't work right. NewTek is smart and waiting so they can make it the best release to date. Users bi*ch about that.

Patience people - patience. It will be good, I'm sure.

WizCraker
02-20-2004, 04:21 PM
I bought my upgrade in October. Yes like most I was expecting a Christmas release but you know it is no big deal if they wait to hammer out bugs so they we don't have to have buggy software. Yeah so what they missed their projected deadline it happens in the world of software development. Look at Valve they missed their projected release for HL2 twice now and id missed theirs as well.

Look on the bright side, at least you don't have to look for money to buy it when it does get released.

gregsduncan
02-20-2004, 05:13 PM
Is the clue to the clue to v8 release date in the new offer currently being made for the LW7.5 and Realviz package?

The offer ends March 21, 2004. Doesn't look like release will be before then, but some time after. Like others think - they have to have something for NAB - don't they???

Seen all the preview videos and looking forward to using those new tools...

j3st3r
02-20-2004, 11:42 PM
Users are bitching because of the slipping release dates. LW has some serious drawbacks and most users except that LW8 will solve most of them.

There are folks who think LW is good as is, and they payed for LW8 in advance, they`ll recieve it whenever it is released.

I think those who are working under serious pressure, are the unpatient users. I`m working under constant pressure of the incredible deadlines, and currently two serious LW drawbacks kill me: UV distortion on Subdiv, and (lack of) OpenGL performance...I`m unpatient, because my clients are unpatient also. But if LW8 will solve this two, I can be more patient...

Verlon
02-23-2004, 12:08 AM
I ordered mine. Feel free to release LW8 any day now :)

Omicron
02-23-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by j3st3r
Users are bitching because of the slipping release dates. LW has some serious drawbacks and most users except that LW8 will solve most of them.

There are folks who think LW is good as is, and they payed for LW8 in advance, they`ll recieve it whenever it is released.

I think those who are working under serious pressure, are the unpatient users. I`m working under constant pressure of the incredible deadlines, and currently two serious LW drawbacks kill me: UV distortion on Subdiv, and (lack of) OpenGL performance...I`m unpatient, because my clients are unpatient also. But if LW8 will solve this two, I can be more patient...

I have to take issue with this, gentlemen for several reasons.

I have been using LW since ver. 5.5, since then I have seen alot of LW errors. Some which are based on and can be blamed on loose programming, incomplete memory process handling, bad math, low hyperthreading integration and generally not everyone there (@ newtek) being on the same page with up to date MS windows structures. These are common flaws to any large organization who while working in smaller groups must realize
the end product must gel together to be of use to users.

I can count myself as both "fan of LW and a professional user".
At the end of the day however, the lights must stay on and the salaries be paid. As a businessman, if I ran this highly technical visualization studio like Newtek runs LW, I would be out of business. I've lost countless >thousands of dollars< in productivity looking to solve some esoteric issues with lightwave's bugs, either through lack of proper documentation or an outright error of a documented process. Add in all the other symptomatic errors, and a hugh chunk of time is wasted examining things to spot the errors or bugs and find a work-around.

Now add to this fact that just about everone who really knew and understood the internal structures in LW is now at luxology.net (assumption by obvious fact) I 'm beginning to think that the team in place now - has had to revisit the newer LW8 changes to solve even more bugs. Personally, I would want Newtek to focus on "fixing what is already there" than to add some new features. Chuck Baker has eluded to us in the LW community, that Newtek is indeed taking the extra time to solve the many issues seen. I say bless him. He (chuck) has encountered my wrath on more than one occasion for the items mentioned above.

Our company has a huge (mid-six figure) investment built around LW, plugins, Toasters and moreover ALL of it's associated training materials and books that money can buy to augment these tools with proper knowledge & usage. Just because a great number of users never use some buggy-laden feature in thier work doesn't mean I don't need to use it in mine. I currently have two major in-house productions >ON HOLD< pending LW8. I had no choice but to allow my cine-group to scatter to the wind because we'll either have to go with another 3D package & take the time to get over the learning curves or add newer supplement tools to get around these bugs. I can't forecast a post schedule, I can't promise deadlines to clients, I can't give timely info to anyone requiring my services, unless it is a simplistic slam-dunk project. I have even lost a shot a major $ client due to the storm of LW buggy unpredictability. Before you get started with a reply, understand that I have a blank $ check here. I've seen lightwave perform on well over a dozen or so differant computer platforms (AMD & Intel) with more than 26 video cards (18 nvidia) and all in wide range assessments with very skilled LW users. I've tried it all.
It (LW) HAS problems. Im still trying to grow this business and at best another year will tell if Im still here and still willing, after that I can tell you that I will never again hang my success on another 3D software company promising what can't be delivered as was advertised. Even with that said, Lightwave is still MY choice.

Chuck,.. do your thing dude. Get it right, please. You will be doing the right thing for the future of Newtek and the many NOW to be satisfied end-users. (talking about the ones who do not have a staff of programmers in-house to augment the vis team issues).

I for one, will hold out as long as $'s possible to see it through.

Alec Trevelyan
02-23-2004, 10:35 PM
well, the DFX deal ends on march 21st, and was supposed to be over the second LW8 shipped, so that's my best guess..;)

pauland
02-24-2004, 01:30 AM
Omicron, sounds like you are waiting for that holy grail of bugless software. It will be a long wait.

I haven't used any 3D software besides LW, so I can't tell if it's better or worse than the competition. Since it has a great following aI would say it has to be comparable and in my experience it's pretty good.

For such apparently problematic software a lot of people are doing incredible things with it, possibly because of it.

I guess it's a question of work with what you have or move onto a greener field.

Paul

Kid Mesh
02-24-2004, 09:43 AM
I am patiently waiting like everyone else and very disappointed by the ongoing delay's surrounding LW8. It just makes me feel uncomfortable because what does the future really hold for me as a current customer? Will Newtek all ways adopt the policy "Its done when we say it's done?" That in itself is a very uncomfortable notion as a supporting waver.

When I think about my future in 3D and what I use it for, I now find myself looking towards companies that would respect me as a consumer and realize that its because of me and others like myself that they exist and not the other way around.

True enough the LW8 + DFX was a great deal and hard to pass up, and I truly went on good faith based on how Newtek has dealt with the community in the past but this is just bad. This situation is like an infectious sore that is getting out of control daily with no remedy in sight.

Currently, I'm seriously considering XSI as many others because for one the company seems to be more community driven and for now they seem more professionally polished. The deal they are offering for the LW upgrade is very tempting, and truthfully all I want is respect and honesty when my money is concerned, not rhetoric and spins.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE LW but Newtek has taught me unfortuneatly that's its all about the money...."my money" and right now I'm thinking of taking that else where.

I can defintely be just as patient as the next guy, but no responses?, no nothing? and your sitting on my money too :mad: .... honestly fellas I feel like I was taken advantage of and Newtek just stole my money....only being honest here because that's all I have left.

-Kid Mesh

pblacklock
02-24-2004, 11:03 AM
I just hope that Newtek ships out the new product before Maya 8.

Could you imagine the mess that would make if both if companies were to release their version at the same time. :rolleyes:


and yes i know that maya is currently at 5. but heck it's been so longggggggg.


here to more waiting

cheers

WizCraker
02-24-2004, 01:07 PM
Maya 5.5 is on the horizon.

pauland
02-24-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Kid Mesh
I am patiently waiting like everyone else and very disappointed by the ongoing delay's surrounding LW8. It just makes me feel uncomfortable because what does the future really hold for me as a current customer? Will Newtek all ways adopt the policy "Its done when we say it's done?" That in itself is a very uncomfortable notion as a supporting waver.

When I think about my future in 3D and what I use it for, I now find myself looking towards companies that would respect me as a consumer and realize that its because of me and others like myself that they exist and not the other way around.

True enough the LW8 + DFX was a great deal and hard to pass up, and I truly went on good faith based on how Newtek has dealt with the community in the past but this is just bad. This situation is like an infectious sore that is getting out of control daily with no remedy in sight.

Currently, I'm seriously considering XSI as many others because for one the company seems to be more community driven and for now they seem more professionally polished. The deal they are offering for the LW upgrade is very tempting, and truthfully all I want is respect and honesty when my money is concerned, not rhetoric and spins.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE LW but Newtek has taught me unfortuneatly that's its all about the money...."my money" and right now I'm thinking of taking that else where.

I can defintely be just as patient as the next guy, but no responses?, no nothing? and your sitting on my money too :mad: .... honestly fellas I feel like I was taken advantage of and Newtek just stole my money....only being honest here because that's all I have left.

-Kid Mesh

There's definitely mileage in this for an Oprah special.

Paul

Kid Mesh
02-24-2004, 04:16 PM
There's definitely mileage in this for an Oprah special.


Before I start to make any assumputions on whatever it is that your implying, why dont you explain yourself instead of painting broad strokes.

The last thing I need is a smart *** comment from anybody.


-Kid Mesh

pauland
02-24-2004, 05:22 PM
It's just that so many LWers seem to portray themselves as some kind of victim.

The delays are dissappointing, but they're not unusual in the software world, nor were you forced to buy a prerelease.

Paul

klak
02-24-2004, 06:20 PM
try to see it my way (and you should feel much more comfortable):

when i bought the LW7.5update and +DFX package i did that because i had the money at the time.
Now i have almost forgotten what i have bought back then because its such a long time ago....Not having to think about paying for LW8 anymore it feels kinda like X-mas and birthday at the same time when it finally is released.
Im very much looking forward to LW8 no doubt about it, but i dont NEED it right now.

PS: i really had a good laugh about the Oprah comment:D

nerdyguy227
02-24-2004, 08:16 PM
ha:

LW 8 relecing about the 21 of March (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18686)

webfox
02-26-2004, 02:48 PM
That's not what that link says, so quit making pudding in your pants.

Omicron
02-26-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by pauland
Omicron, sounds like you are waiting for that holy grail of bugless software. It will be a long wait.

I haven't used any 3D software besides LW, so I can't tell if it's better or worse than the competition. Since it has a great following aI would say it has to be comparable and in my experience it's pretty good.

Paul

Paul,
I am not looking for some pie-in-the-sky perfect software.
I am looking for a usable product that won't eat up alot of time trying to accomplish the obvious needs for which it was purchased. Imagine buying an aircraft or a car for business use only to be shown it falls from the sky or throws you off the road for no apparent reason. I understand perfectly what you're eluding to, but still this is not right when a person must play musical chairs with mainboards, cpu's & video cards to get a reasonably stable LW. It shows the piecies were never test fit .

I myself have gone way above the call of duty to ensure that Newtek received good information. I sent at my company's expense an entire high-end workstation to a well-known video card manufacturer, just to get the "complete picture" of just what I needed to find and fix. Both of my issues were later confirmed at this manufacturer & by Microsoft. Now the public has more insight and the fixes it didn't have before. My company's $'s made this possible. I've given Newtek the same offer, to have a dual Xeon workstation provided with no strings at my expense to have it around to examine things better in LW. Did they take me up on it. NO! Why ? Who knows. I think they believe they are above such obivous mistakes in thier wares or choose not to acknowledge them,.. either way it makes alot more sense to me to actively help provide answers to problems in whatever way possible, as opposed to wasting more time & money ,.. waiting.

So, I'll say it again " hey Newtek, what do you need ?
What can I buy, lend, loan, give to you -- whatever
that will make me a better LW product" ?

It pretty obvious from my side, it would be a much better cost effective option for me to Loan out to you indefinately - a high-end Dual Xeon workstation for your testing, than for me to go around chasing down issues affecting my productivity. The 5 grand or so this cost would only save my company- tens of thousands and alot less stress & even more - no bad feelings.

LW 8 will tell it all for me. I put my money where my mouth is.
Where is yours Paul ?

Lamont
02-26-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by dablan
I'm not trying to start anything, but users bi*ch if the software doesn't work right. NewTek is smart and waiting so they can make it the best release to date. Users bi*ch about that.

Patience people - patience. It will be good, I'm sure. I agree.

Amazon is pretty quick with shipments, I got mine from them.

pauland
02-26-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Omicron
Paul,
LW 8 will tell it all for me. I put my money where my mouth is.
Where is yours Paul ?

My mouth is on my face, thank you. I'll ever be thankfull that the quality of someone's opinion isn't related to the size of their wallet, even though it's possible the opposite is true.

I think Newtek can run their business without your help and many people are finding LW perfectly able to crank out exceptional work.

I admit to not being able to crank out great works, but I won't be blaming that on LW or Newtek.

Paul

mkiii
02-26-2004, 05:04 PM
Whoahhhh... There seems to be a bruised ego in need of help around here. Someone call a medic.

Omicron
02-26-2004, 05:37 PM
First, allow me to say I do respect your opinion Paul.

Sure LW does some amazing things. This is why I would go to such effort to try and make it better. If a little money spent now can save alot of it later, Why Not?
Bottomline - It is all about the money, --> everytime !

If you were in a business facing these dillema's, what would you do ? Sit back and hope for the best - or try to become a small piece of the solution ? I just want a stable product able to perform as advertised consistantly. I don't blame Newtek for the problems, just for a lack of finding solutions in timely manner.
I expect those who can, will ; those who can't, won't.

Every company has it's problems, mine included. I just don't like being an after thought beta-tester on released software that Im paying for. To only cost me even more day-in & day-out when it could be so much easier to just "get it right" with the required effort. Oh sure, I get by with Lightwave being able to produce what in a day (or days) what should only be hours. Yet, this is not what I paid for is it.

Sure, If money can't help to solve some issues, people can. Money is a tool that makes the world go round. Why else would it be a business tool and not a hobby tool to us.

Now, to be only fair we use Lightwave and some others, to illustrate a new product technical anaylsis, a design & a potential usage failure and mostly things from advanced aerospace concepts modeling up to Sat-Topo, vegetation & habitat area modeling for proposed real estate development & construction.

Developing Real time network-capable evaluation tools to aid construction teams anywhere in the world, visualize the potential problems with a site or any equipment brought onto the site. We also aid companies with maintaining thier conformity with environmental requirements to help maintain complience with a site or project. Business is very demanding. It demands fast accurate solutions to problems that any lawyer today would have a field-day with. I've even had to model in 3D - Squirrel habitat migration route sims, just to ensure they don't get wasted during some new construction method. We do alot of differant things here - many quite well. --> YET, ... All of it involves MONEY.
If this can't be understood and confronted on the facts then why discuss it ? Why do we use Lightwave? I tell you why, because even at it's worst, the rest of LW is better than most.
Im sorry, but my opinion IS rooted in my wallet. That is a fact. Anybody else saying differant is either not being honest about the facts,.. or is not affected by them. I, like so many others will also be waiting for LW8 with baited breath. I do give cudos to Newtek for finally taking the time to get it right (I hope). Time will tell, it always has.

pauland
02-27-2004, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by mkiii
Whoahhhh... There seems to be a bruised ego in need of help around here. Someone call a medic.

LOL

I'm not sure if it's my ego you're refering to, but forget the medic s - just send round the nurse (in uniform) please..

..if it's other egos you mean, I wouldn't worry, I suspect a nuclear blast wouldn't make a mark.. ;-)

Now where is that nurse... ?

Paul

mkiii
02-27-2004, 07:20 AM
Fnaar! :)

prospector
02-27-2004, 09:17 AM
Well....it's the end of the month and Amazon LIED to me...the LW8 book isn't here:mad:

What kind of company won't keep it's proposed release date???
What kind of company refuses to let it's customers know WHY thier product is late??


:D :D

Lamont
02-27-2004, 03:33 PM
Amazon is pre-order.

TyVole
02-27-2004, 03:52 PM
In defense of Amazon, they are probably just listing the date they received from the distributor.

prospector
02-27-2004, 05:56 PM
Amazon is pre-order.
Yep it is and I did.
Day after ordering and then a week later I got conformation E-Mail that I would get the book by the 28th of this month.

I knew I wouldn't because Dan said it wasn't ready yet.
The rest was saterical comments...kinda like what Newtek has to read since Dec 31st.

prospector
05-03-2004, 11:10 AM
OK
LW8 is here
I can't do a thing with it till I get some directions.

Where's my book?????

If we can no longer complain about LW then what is there to do?


I want my mapo err LW book:D :D

Signal to Noise
05-03-2004, 11:20 AM
When is that Oprah show going to air? I'll get my wife to tape it.

;)

dablan
05-03-2004, 11:45 AM
Prospector,

the book is complete, and in production. We're looking at a June release.

prospector
05-03-2004, 02:01 PM
COOL:cool:

Thanks Dan!