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jr_sunshine
02-09-2004, 09:56 AM
NewTek,

Just a questiojn regarding LW 8 and it's impending release:

Is it true we are going to have to wait until NAB 2004 (April 17-22, 2004) to get our hands on LW 8?

Thanks,

TSpyrison
02-09-2004, 10:02 AM
Who's gonna yell??

:D

js33
02-09-2004, 10:10 AM
Imagine the yelling that will happen if it doesn't even release by NAB. :D Maybe it will be ready by Siggraph 2004,5,6.............

Cheers,
JS

Exper
02-09-2004, 10:41 AM
:D

hrgiger
02-09-2004, 11:12 AM
Who said anything about waiting until NAB? I mean, it's possible but I don't think Newtek said anything about waiting until NAB. I wouldn't trust anything anyone else on this board said about it that's for sure.

Dodgy
02-09-2004, 11:16 AM
Snazzin'g frazzin' deadline moanin' weasel crackin' varmit!

AND STAY OUT!

jr_sunshine
02-09-2004, 11:36 AM
You guys are soooooo nice. Thanks. Well except for Dodgy who doesn't care that people plunked down cash for a product which could be late by over a year. ;)

Anyhoo, I am willing to take the punishment for asking the "when will we get LW [8]" question every now and then. I know there are more out there who want to ask that question but don't want the abuse that eventually follows it.

But really... at this point I truly believe that NewTek can provide a solid estimate. They are in beta. Features should be locked down. Bug after bug is being squased and unit tested. At the very least, they should be able to say LW [8] will be here before or after NAB.

Now, I have heard the argument about stoping the developers to get them to calulate an estimate of how much time is left. C'mon this is just too funny... the LW [8] project leader should already know this information. If he doesn't... then I know why they missed their first (and not very hard to make) estimate of Q4 2003. Last quarter of the year is an estimate every development team in the world has used at one time or another.

Here's the real bad news. If they are indeed in beta and squashing bugs, then they will still need to do some sort of full system test on the entirety of the bug fixes. I hope they are either finished with or at the end of that testing and preparing to burn the master discs for production. But even with all those things, they should still be able to estimate another date and stick to it. Leaving a feature out here or there will make some users angry, but delaying the release of what looks to be complete software (I can only base this on the videos and demos at SIGGRAPH) eventually will anger every user.

cresshead
02-09-2004, 11:49 AM
after 8 ships i'll give it 5 days till we see when's 8.x out with the new radiosity for"---------" settings etc...

it'll arrive when it's good [very good] ands ready [ready to punish max6.0!]

i reckon i will be nab for the best impact to the world for advertising the new "now shipping lightwave 8"
or even siggraph if the decide to add some new lighting features such as adaptive subdivisional radiosity meshing like what lightscape had in 1998.

steve g

jr_sunshine
02-09-2004, 12:50 PM
cresshead,

LOL. You are so right on that one. But I believe very stongly that customers have a legit beef and every right to want clear information about the release of LW [8].

Just curious. Assuming you purchased your upgrade last April or so, how long is too long for you to wait?

1 year?
1 year 2 months?
1 year 8 months?
2 years?

I'm not trying to be rediculous about this but what wondering what is your cut off?

cresshead
02-09-2004, 01:01 PM
i bought mine on the last day of the special offer of digital fusion...that then went on to be extended till lightwave 8 actually ships..

i was rather p'dd when lw8 didn't show up before 2004 but have since resigned myself to the fact that no matter how hard or loud i shout i cannot inffluence the coders to work faster and better!

so i'll try n learn lightwave 7.5 first!

pity i had to go with max in the latest paying project but i needed to rig up real fast and my max3.1 and character studio3 can do that where as i'm a newbie for riggging in lightwve 7.5 and felt that to learn it would be a part wasted due to the nature of rigging changing for lw8 and the fact that lw7.5 is very slow in riging compared to bip, fig and phy files i can use and re use on characters in max to pose the characters for about 48 illustrations for a sports fittness training book on cricket that i finished today....30 mins before the deadline!

Aegis
02-09-2004, 01:17 PM
I speculated that LW8 might be held back until NAB for a big release hoo-ha but I suspect NewTek wants to get it out the door the minute it's ready - it's embarassing enough for them to have missed the fourth quarter deadline without holding back finished product until a big trade event comes along.

The only reason I can think of that LightWave 8 isn't here yet is that there's bugs that still need squashing - it's important for this release to be as stable and production-ready as possible and it's not going to do LightWave's reputation any favors if users are reporting horrific crash-fests...

NewTek hasn't made any announcements about when to expect LightWave 8 so all we can do is wait.

Anyway, to quote the late, great Douglas Adams "I love deadlines - particularly the whooshing sound they make as they pass by" :D

jr_sunshine
02-09-2004, 02:11 PM
The only reason I can think of that LightWave 8 isn't here yet is that there's bugs that still need squashing - it's important for this release to be as stable and production-ready as possible and it's not going to do LightWave's reputation any favors if users are reporting horrific crash-fests...

Aegis,

The alternative (one which I suggested back in 2003... lol) is to dump the feature which is causing the headaches, release [8] to the public, and release that buggy feature in a point release (after it is debugged of course).

But.... what I guess/speculate is the feature which is causing the problem is the new scene editor and specifically the dopesheet. Those are features you just cannot dump to get the software out the door.

Oh well.....

NanoGator
02-09-2004, 02:24 PM
If they are going to wait until April to launch LW8, then I want my money back until it's released.

jamesl
02-09-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
You guys are soooooo nice. Thanks. Well except for Dodgy who doesn't care that people plunked down cash for a product which could be late by over a year. ;)


Late by over a year? So you think it'll slip past Q4 2004? Aren't you overstating things by a bit? :rolleyes:

j

Steve McRae
02-09-2004, 02:55 PM
. . . i think that it is amusing that no one is referring to the q4 2003 date as an "estimate" anymore . . .

NanoGator
02-09-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by atomman
. . . i think that it is amusing that no one is referring to the q4 2003 date as an "estimate" anymore . . .

Newtek sent out an email in Oct that said "LW8 will be out within the next 64 days." It is for that reason I pre-paid for LW8, and now I'm hoppin mad. So please don't underrate people's rationale for not being satisfied. Newtek really needs to be more sensitive to the people they made that promise to and give us a date.

jr_sunshine
02-09-2004, 03:00 PM
jamesl,

Thanks. You are correct. My wording is very poor on that one.

What I was trying to say is......

If I purchased my upgrade on April of 2003 and LW [8] does not get delivered until April of 2004.... that is a year's wait. It does not mean the product is late by a year (which I very poorly stated) but, it does mean :

1) people ordered early thinking the product would be out Q4 2003. I will agree you are taking a chance anytime you pre-order, but I truly believed [8] was right around the corner. In fact, the early marketing stated the developers were putting the final touches on [8]. That statement alone implies "soon".

2) people ordered early thinking the DFX+ promotion was a very limited time. I can certainly attest this is the reason I upgraded early. Yet... the DFX+ offer was extended. I don't have a beef with this one, but some may.

So of the two above, I think numerous people have a legit gripe.

All I would like is a less than vague estimate for LW [8]'s release. Or just say, we were stupid and tried to add more features than we had time to complete and now were screw*d cause we cannot just release the software without fixing the "not part of the original plan" features.

Again.... oh well

Steve McRae
02-09-2004, 03:06 PM
. . . I think that I did not make myself clear enough nano - I completely agree with your post . . .

I find it amusing because I thought at the time that the proclamation that the q4 2003 'estimate' sounded like spin and rhetoric to my ears . . . it is interesting that the defenders of newtek's poor public relations policy are not using that argument anymore . . .

at least from the posts that I have seen . . .

I bought the upgrade in June - and have not cared up untill this point because Maya has been keeping me busy

but now I am getting worried . . .

Dodgy
02-09-2004, 04:41 PM
I was one of the guys who did defend NT to the eye teeth until the end of the Dec date. Now even I'm getting a little impatient to play with those new toys (mostly the dynamics stuff, I have pretty much the rest, much to the loss of my bank balance!) I had hoped it had slipped just a couple of weeks, but now we're in to feb. This is getting a little excessive... I want LW to be bug free and a joy to use, like 7.5c is. After all I'm still finding new ways to use LW, but I just want the waiting to be over :)

mrunion
02-09-2004, 10:33 PM
Atomman: According to information people have recieved in e-mails and an article in 3D World magazine (I think that was it), By-end-of-Q4-2003 was NOT an estimate.

If it's late, it's late and there is nothing I can do. But let's stop kidding ourselves -- it *is* late.

blabberlicious
02-10-2004, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Dodgy
I ... I want LW to be bug free and a joy to use, like 7.5c is. After all I'm still finding new ways to use LW, but I just want the waiting to be over :)

Speaking of things slipping, your smiley seems to have slipped from the end of the first scentence.....and landed at the foot of your post.

It was a joke right?


FWIW
The fact that they've so far declined to publish 'a what's fixed in 7.5c' tells me all I need to know about the state of the upgrade.

They have my sympathy - it can't have been fun creeping into the dank basement of LW's code to battle all those lurking horrors that users have been encountering and working around.

Dealing with the legacy of LW7-7.5c problems, and how they impact on the new layout stuff has (probably) opened a can of worms.

Now can I scream 'I want it NOW!'????

All the best

Dodgy
02-10-2004, 03:17 AM
Yeah it was a bit of a joke... But then I remember the bad old days of 6.....<shudder, screaming in the night>

At least in 7.5c I can work most of a day without LW crashing...(Though than can make you complacement :P)

Steve McRae
02-10-2004, 05:00 AM
mrunion: yup I know, check the defence that Newtek and others were making after Dec 31, 2003. (which I thought at the time - and still do - that it was spurious at best) I just wanted to highlight the fact that you don't really hear that argument anymore . . .

cheers,

mrunion
02-10-2004, 09:17 AM
Atomman:

I'm cool. I understand.

Even though I know none of you in "real life", I can sincerely say I feel your pain. I feel Newek's too! I've been on both sides of the fence and it always looks greener on the other.

I don't make money with LW -- just a hobby. If it bothers me this much sometimes, I can only imagine the people that have livelyhoods because of LW!

Keep at it, NewTek. You'll be fine. :)

Chuck
02-10-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
You guys are soooooo nice. Thanks. Well except for Dodgy who doesn't care that people plunked down cash for a product which could be late by over a year. ;)

We are about six weeks past our original estimate - speculating that the product could be "over a year late" is a little premature to say the very least and would seem to serve no purpose but to be inflammatory. As for what folks plunked down cash for and whether they've received it: the majority of sales have been to folks upgrading to 7.5 from an earlier version or purchasing LightWave for the first time, and they received 7.5 along with DFX+ immediately.

We made an LW8 upgrade available to those who already had 7.5 only as a means to provide 7.5 owners a way to purchase the DFX+ special offer, and for no other reason. We did our best to communicate that purpose. We will most certainly deliver those purchasers LightWave 8 in as timely a fashion as we can manage, but the purpose was to allow them to take advantage of of the DFX+ offer and to get some form of NewTek product with it, and we would appreciate that this effort not be portrayed as being other than what we intended.

Chuck
02-10-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by atomman
mrunion: yup I know, check the defence that Newtek and others were making after Dec 31, 2003. (which I thought at the time - and still do - that it was spurious at best) I just wanted to highlight the fact that you don't really hear that argument anymore . . .

cheers,

Yes, the shipping date estimate was an estimate, and barring one ill-considered email marketing piece for which we heartily repent and apologize for the over-confident wording, was consistently expressed as an estimate, and there is nothing spurious about noting that truth.

Matt
02-10-2004, 01:45 PM
I'd like to quote something I saw on a link someone posted which I think is applicable here!

"Cheap, Fast and Good" - Choose two.

:)

Steve McRae
02-10-2004, 02:03 PM
yes I understand that there were a couple sources that stated that LW would be for sure out by the end of the year . . . I also understand and totally accept Newtek's apology . . .

. . . my problem has NEVER been that the software ended up late . . .

I had a problem with people putting the emphasis on the word 'estimate' AFTER it appeared that LW would be late where as before the end of q4 2003 there was NO emphasis on estimate . . .

the general consensus was that LW8 was going to be released in that given time period . . . and that is what everyone expected . . .

everyone knows that LW8 is LATE - all I wanted was a little respect from a company who has my money by being a little more transparent in communicating the status of my purchase . . .

lonestar1
02-10-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
All I would like is a less than vague estimate for LW [8]'s release. Or just say, we were stupid and tried to add more features than we had time to complete and now were screw*d cause we cannot just release the software without fixing the "not part of the original plan" features.

Anyone who has any familiarity with software knows that deliverables are late more often than they are on time. You claim to be a software developer, but you don't know that?

You abused Newtek for missing their target date. Now, you're asking for another target date, so you can abuse them again if they don't hit it?

I don't think Newtek is stupid for missing a target date. I do think they would be stupid to play your game. Anything they say, you will use against them. The best strategy is to say as little as possible and devote their energy to getting the product out as soon as possible -- however angry that makes the trolls.

Chuck
02-10-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by atomman
yes I understand that there were a couple sources that stated that LW would be for sure out by the end of the year . . . I also understand and totally accept Newtek's apology . . .

. . . my problem has NEVER been that the software ended up late . . .

I had a problem with people putting the emphasis on the word 'estimate' AFTER it appeared that LW would be late where as before the end of q4 2003 there was NO emphasis on estimate . . .

the general consensus was that LW8 was going to be released in that given time period . . . and that is what everyone expected . . .

everyone knows that LW8 is LATE - all I wanted was a little respect from a company who has my money by being a little more transparent in communicating the status of my purchase . . .

We certainly do respect our customers, and regret if our disagreeing with your interpretation makes you feel otherwise, as that is certainly not the intent. However, it is the case that the shipping date was expressed with emphasis on being an estimate in most of our communications on the subject. I've also observed that no matter what lengths we go to to express that estimates are just that, whenever a project takes longer than originally estimated a certain number of people always choose to regard that missed estimate as a broken promise.

As for what people expected, the polls that folks put up on our own and other forums to express what they thought the shipping for LW would be indicated that folks understood that an estimate had been made and that things were likely enough to take longer.

Steve McRae
02-10-2004, 02:57 PM
yes - I agree - I never considered it a promise . . .

I think my point was missed however - although you touched on it in your response . . .

if you were to have polled those people BEFORE the end of December you would have found that everyone expected it to come BEFORE the end of q4 - no one considered it to be an ESTIMATE as the word is now being used . . .

I think too that examining the forums during this time (pre q4 end - before the rumors were floating around about LW8 not being released on time) would bear me out on this - everyone was pretty excited about the release . . .

no one said "hold on guys - calm down - Newtek *did* say that it was only a estimate . . ." - I don't recall ANY talk like this . . .

this in addition to the fact that the release date was announced in q2 (?) - I don't think anyone thought that LW8 would not be released by the end of q4 2003 - there just was not any reason too until the rumors flew in Dec . . .

cheers,

hrgiger
02-10-2004, 03:27 PM
Boy it's really getting down to silly semantics.

I'm not sure it really matters if Newtek swore on their dead grandmothers grave that it would be out by 4thQ 2003. They tried to deliver it by that time but it didn't happen. You can't always predict setbacks like this. It sucks but it happens.

Steve McRae
02-10-2004, 03:32 PM
silly semantics

you have made my point completely

thank you

Chuck
02-10-2004, 03:33 PM
Actually, there were a number of folks taking the polls or just posting on the threads who were voting for or predicting delivery dates in 2004 even before Q4 2003 began.

Neil_Campbell
02-10-2004, 03:38 PM
Unfortunately estimates and delays are often the name of the game in s/w development - it's just a matter of degree - anyone who says it's an exact science with dates set in stone is frankly deluding themselves and doing a disservice to the development and test teams. That's not to say expectations couldn't have been managed better from NT's side.

Really I think it's going to come down to how late LW8 is, and what if anything has been left out / added in.

If NT ships LW8 at NAB with just the advertised features, they're going to get some serious stick.

If they ship at NAB with a whole host of unannounced features, they'll get a lot of pats on the back

If they ship next week with the advertised features, and it's stable and not full of bugs, people will be happy again.

Assuming you're into character animation that is ;) The rest of us will be waiting to see what's if anything's been done to the render core and modelling toolset for 8.x

Steve McRae
02-10-2004, 03:44 PM
Actually, there were a number of folks taking the polls or just posting on the threads who were voting for or predicting delivery dates in 2004 even before Q4 2003 began.

chuck: granted - but I do not recall any serious thought or discussion regarding the possibility of a delay untill Dec when 'leaks' occured and the rumor mill began

neil: hit the nail on the head - agreed

Digital Junkie
02-11-2004, 02:22 PM
Dude, I'd like to think I'm a pretty patient guy, but if LW8 is not released till NAB, that will be late first quarter early second which will put lightwave 1/2 a year behind schedule without any real word how things are going. I mean if youre going to keep me in the dark and beat me with a stick at least let me know when the lights come back on! Anyhoot thats my two cents.

NanoGator
02-11-2004, 02:24 PM
It'd be really nice if Newtek would at least give us their internal date.

[Edit: Sorry, that last bit was kinda rude. Just frustrated.]

indchart
02-11-2004, 06:39 PM
I would like to know how NewTek can justify a time sensitive Special Offer on the Upgrade DFX which was to expire on 9/30/03 or maybe 10/30/03 at the latest.

I purchased based on the this false time sensitive experation date of the upgrade special.

This is called false advertising.

On the NewTek website currently reads... This is a limited time offer, so order now!

Is there a press release or webpage with an official apology for all of this, a Mia Culpa sure would make me and I am sure many people accept the missed deadline easier to accept while waiting.

NanoGator
02-11-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
We are about six weeks past our original estimate - speculating that the product could be "over a year late" is a little premature to say the very least and would seem to serve no purpose but to be inflammatory. As for what folks plunked down cash for and whether they've received it: the majority of sales have been to folks upgrading to 7.5 from an earlier version or purchasing LightWave for the first time, and they received 7.5 along with DFX+ immediately.

We made an LW8 upgrade available to those who already had 7.5 only as a means to provide 7.5 owners a way to purchase the DFX+ special offer, and for no other reason. We did our best to communicate that purpose. We will most certainly deliver those purchasers LightWave 8 in as timely a fashion as we can manage, but the purpose was to allow them to take advantage of of the DFX+ offer and to get some form of NewTek product with it, and we would appreciate that this effort not be portrayed as being other than what we intended.

@indchart: Not sure if you caught the above quote, but it did go a long way with me.

indchart
02-11-2004, 06:52 PM
NanoGator

Then the offer should not have been date sensitive/expire by 9/30/03 or maybe it was 10/30/03.

That is the reason why I upgraded (middle of 9/03, because I thought it was a limited time offer.

NanoGator
02-11-2004, 07:07 PM
Hmm. Where'd ya hear that?

Just asking because what I saw was different. Originally, it was going to be a 'pre-purchase before it's debuted at Siggraph and you'll get DFX'. A bunch of people groused about that "Pre-pay before I see what I'm buying?!" So Newtek extended it. (Maybe one of the extensions was to 9-30?) Eventually, they extended it even further.

I understand your frustration, but I personally am glad they extended the offer. But I do agree that it sucks that they lit a fire under you to buy it NOW NOW NOW. I'm out $500 that would have been very helpful like right now. I really wish they'd let me hold on to my money until they release it.

Steve McRae
02-11-2004, 07:44 PM
actually the original deal before it was extended was till the end of June . . .

http://web.archive.org/web/20030621195721/www.newtek.com/buynow/software/lightwave+dfx.html

NanoGator
02-11-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
Yes, the shipping date estimate was an estimate, and barring one ill-considered email marketing piece for which we heartily repent and apologize for the over-confident wording, was consistently expressed as an estimate, and there is nothing spurious about noting that truth.

Rats, I quoted the wrong post. Indchart, sorry, this is the one I meant to show you. Shoulda read more carefully. :/

MHendry
02-11-2004, 08:12 PM
I would like to know how NewTek can justify a time sensitive Special Offer on the Upgrade DFX which was to expire on 9/30/03 or maybe 10/30/03 at the latest.

I would like to know also!:rolleyes:


I purchased based on the this false time sensitive experation date of the upgrade special.

So did I, as well as many others I bet. As a matter of fact the whole period of time around Sigg is burnt in my mind. True, Newtek at that time did NOT come out and say that Lightwave 8 was going to be released soon... if ever, but the demos at Sigg along with the then EXPIRING DFX+ upgrade promo at the time did leave me and likely many others to believe a new version of lightwave would be released shortly thereafter.
Many people bit on the offer, and some are pissed! Honestly I have no problem with software release dates not being met.......happens all of the time. What I DO have a problem with is sales/marketing based on the pretense that SOMETHING (the LW8 release)is going to happen soon give us your money, even if it is unspoken as is the case here.


This is called false advertising.

Yes, I believe so too!


Is there a press release or webpage with an official apology for all of this, a Mia Culpa sure would make me and I am sure many people accept the missed deadline easier to accept while waiting.

That will never happen. And if by some miracle it deos, an apology will never make this whole situation any easier to accept for me.

Cheers

hrgiger
02-11-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by indchart
"I would like to know how NewTek can justify a time sensitive Special Offer on the Upgrade DFX which was to expire on 9/30/03 or maybe 10/30/03 at the latest.

I purchased based on the this false time sensitive experation date of the upgrade special.

This is called false advertising."


It's not false advertising if Krogers decides to extend their sale on lunch meat for another week even if they say the sale is going to end this week. And it's not false advertising to tell someone this is a limited time deal like Newtek did. I don't think they intended to extend the DFX deal for as long as they did but it just happened that way. False advertising would be for Newtek to say that Lightwave 8 will have edges and then we come to find out later that they had never intended to put in edges in the first place. It wouldn't be false advertising however for Newtek to say that Lightwave 8 will have edges if their intent was to put them in 8 and then just through delays in design and implementation, it just didn't work out.
I can understand the frustration of it not fitting into a specific timeline but ultimately you're still getting the same thing for your money so it's just not the same as false advertising. I don't see necessarily that Newtek deliberately mislead anyone.

jr_sunshine
02-11-2004, 09:15 PM
I'm sorry... I started this mess.

I am officially offering my apologies to Chuck, Proton, and the rest...

I am very happy the DFX+ offer was made and extended to current LW owners. I certainly took advantage of the offer and am very happy I did. I don't want NewTek to be hesitant if another great offer like the DFX+ one comes along. Even when we realized Q4 2003 was all but gone, I still stated this in my posts.

Thanks NewTek for offer a great tool like DFX+ as a value added companion to LW.

I am still frustrated about the delay, but am grateful for NewTek's customer focused approach.

KenM
02-11-2004, 10:21 PM
My DFX+ upgrade arrived today, and I look forward to using it. I'd like to extend a hearty "thank you" to the staff at Newtek (and CADDS here in Vancouver that did the ordering).

I look forward to 8, and working with 7.5. DFX is a package I'd been interested in for several years. What a great way to come into ownership of the license.

badllarma
02-12-2004, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by KenM
My DFX+ upgrade arrived today, and I look forward to using it. I'd like to extend a hearty "thank you" to the staff at Newtek (and CADDS here in Vancouver that did the ordering).


KenM, you are going to LOVE IT !! :D trust me on that I've used AE and Combus and they don't come near the work flow of DFX or Digital Fusion :)

Freak
02-12-2004, 01:08 AM
Okay, this is my .02 cents...

Everybodies on edge, people have payed money for something that hasn't arrived, Christmas is a little late this year....

NT have been hard at it for sometime, and are tired, worn out...
and are trying hard to finish the product, to make it out the door, so as we can complain that 8.5 is not out yet....
Errr, i mean enjoy a fine release.

I can see that NT would be getting, a little pissed at all the whinging that's happening around the forums and lists.
(me being apart of that too)

My gripes are/were that it seems to be a lot of integration,
and not much innovation, Dstorms plugs, Ikeda's Plugs, Ortho Pack, etc.. Thats fine, as long as there is more.....

However, i don't think LW needed a bunch of new features....
it just needed a lot of little touches to make it great....

And the good news!!, That after talking with some of the Development team, and few Beta Testers... Many, and most of my fears have all but vanished.

And i do believe, that most (well many) of the features that i have requested over the past few years, have indeed been looked at, enhanced, improved or implemented... (yippeee)

There are a few things, that seem to be absent from the
Feature list, that HAVE been updated... (you'll have to wait for some surprises) (now don't go expecting anything too special)

As it would be silly for Chuck or NT to make another ETA for 8...

I'll go out on a limb, and say..... Soon! :)
I would say, you are very likely to see it before April or NAB.
And it's still quite possible to see it before March....!!!

Now nobody can quote me, or yell at NT if this doesn't occur...
Because it speculation, (even if it's slightly informed speculation)
Because it's done, when it's done!

To NT's credit, Proton and the team are giving you lots of Demo Video's and Even Worley's got you guessing what he's got cooking, Leigh just finished her LW texture book, Dan Ablan and Jonny both have books coming around April+

And you already have DFX+ to be learning too!!!!
(And Eyeon have released Courseware2, to help you learn it)
And i believe think that LW8 will include the best Content ever!

What the hell is everyone complaining about?

This is the most exciting time that has occured around here,
in over 2 years! it's time to be EXCITED people, not pissed off....

Everyone do a group hug, and go and make something cool in 7.5... Because you won't be using it for too much longer!

(I do believe, i have become a Voice of reason.....)
SCARY PEOPLE, VERY SCARY!......

Now! sit down, shut up and hang on!!!!!!

Nemoid
02-12-2004, 03:16 AM
I agree totally with Freak.

Plus, things related to Nt delaying Lw release have been said till death. :confused:

I 'm not saying you guys have NO reason to complain.
I'm saying you seem like a damn broken record IMO.