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View Full Version : Over 7 weeks of Beta testing are we waiting for Nab?



badllarma
02-07-2004, 07:22 AM
Just wondering how long it is going to be? We have seen the vids it's now 07/02/04 and WAY over the Q4 2003 release date I wish if Newtek are going to wait until Nab they just say so and stop all the guessing games.
"Soon" was metioned in mid January? I don't want the date just a idea this month, next month blah blah........
One things for sure it's a LOOOOONG way off when I paid for it last summer :rolleyes:

I'll take that as a big lesson learned BTW

The vids are cool and Proton and Chuck are doing a great job BUT when is it coming out? All I can guess is A) they must be a big problem found out along the way or B) this will be the most bug free release in software history :)

BTW lets keep it clean people I see this as a sensible question wanting a sensible answer;)

Aegis
02-07-2004, 08:54 AM
I suspect we may well be waiting for NAB - I don't think there's going to be any major announcements on the VT[3] side of things (maybe update 3) so I guess NewTek would like to make a big LightWave release announcement there... All IMHO of course.

Jaffro
02-07-2004, 09:00 AM
when is nab anyway?

I'd like to echo the support for the work going on, esp by proton and chuck on keeping us updated with everything. I hate to think how bad it would be without having any news from them!

Panikos
02-07-2004, 09:56 AM
The LW75c bugs are so f***** awful.
I just lost 3 models cause "Save All Objects" saved a corrupted version. It took me half day to do them :mad: :mad: :(

trick
02-07-2004, 09:57 AM
NAB is mid april, I think.

I hope NT is releasing [8] either way before or after NAB. Releasing it at NAB would make them lose a lot of credibility. Release should be when it's ready. That was the promise !!!

Jaffro
02-07-2004, 10:07 AM
mid april?! That'll be insane to release down there, its in Q2 of this year and is not 'soon'. Therefore in answer to the topic, i dont think we're waiting for nab, cause newtek would know better than to hold ready software (i hope!).

I was lookin at lw8 upgrades and oneanimation a min ago and noticed they've changed the description to 'download' instead of 'electronic upgrade'. Or at least i _think_ this has changed. I really hope this doesn't mean european users wont get the gig's of content(cause there's no way that will download!!!). I suppose if this is a change then perhaps we're getting closer to release. meh

Yog
02-07-2004, 10:46 AM
I honestly don't think Newtek would purposely delay the release of LW8 just to co-inside with NAB.

To do this would show a distinct lack of respect to those who pre-ordered, thus providing fighting funds for the coming release.
Whilst IMHO Newtek have made a few mistakes when it comes to judging users mood in the past, I don't think they could misjudge things that badly.

Even from a marketing POV I don't think it would have a much different impact if they were to turn up with a "newly" released product (1-2 months is short enough to lable it new).

badllarma
02-07-2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Jaffro
[B]when is nab anyway?

NAB Conference 17 - 22 April
NAB Exhibits 19 - 22 April

http://www.nab.org/

BTW nice work on your site Jaffro M & S stuff really impressive :)

Jaffro
02-07-2004, 11:08 AM
hehe thanks badllarma

i agree with yog 1-2 months for something of this scale still makes it new imho

videoguy
02-07-2004, 11:10 AM
i seriously dont think they will wait unitl NAB there are some rumours of things coming down the pipe for the toaster that i hope will be ready and unveiled at NAB

hrgiger
02-07-2004, 11:20 AM
I don't know that I'd call a month or so WAY over the Q4 2003 release date. I might say SLIGHTLY over. Nab in April would be WAY over.
I'm not sure why people who ordered it last summer are complaining when they knew it would be several months before it was released. I sure wasn't complaining when my free copy of DFX showed up.

badllarma
02-07-2004, 11:53 AM
Not complaining hrgiger would just like to know when the product is out (nearest month will do :rolleyes: )

Yes I did know it would be a several months for release (Q4 2003 ) but as we all know things have slipped , which once again I totally understand BUT when we are told in December by Chuck that the product was now in Beta testing I'm am wondering how things are going and when the product will be released.

We all know what is in the new release just look at the Lightwave 8 page, it is when it is released I would like to know :)

And I totally agree with you DFX just rocks! Just wished when people were trying to sell there copies on ebay for £50.00 I'd bought the LOT! :D

Like I said in my first post I don't want everybody to start bitching on but a realistic date (within a month or two ) would be nice. If it's not going to be until NAB then no problems so long as we know I've got no issues with that.

Just feel abit mushroomised at present :)

hrgiger
02-07-2004, 01:35 PM
Well, I'd love to have Lightwave 8 in my hands right now also but Newtek hasn't given us concrete info on when it will be released and I prefer it that way. I had a feeling it would be late when they said 4th quarter just because that is the nature of software development but I'd rather they didn't say anything at all rather then saying oh it will be out by this date and then that date comes and goes again. What if they tell us it will be ready by Nab and then something happens that it doesn't? My feeling is if they aren't giving us a ship date, then chances are, they're not completely sure when it will be ready. And if they're not sure, I'd rather they didn't say at all.
You can't expect Newtek to give us information they don't have.

stef
02-07-2004, 02:09 PM
Newtek is a publisher of LW - a pretty smart software. They are thus smart people to tackle it, I have no doubt and must know what they are doing. If they have not relaeased it yet - there MUST be a reason. By putting out videos they reasured us that the product is [almost] there, that it in fact exists. This has qualmed tremendously people's anxiety. All we have now is speculative theories why they did not do it. But since NT is not telling us I respect it and do not pressure them to tell. I know it is coming. They have financial stakes too, and somehow resist the pressure. Meanwhile I have just upgraded through the good offices of great Irene (what a tremendous customter service rep she is) and am anxiously expecting DFX. For a time being I leave them alone, let them do what they have to do and meanwhile am asking for videos and more videos. Once 8 arrives I will know what to do with it.

Cobalt
02-07-2004, 02:39 PM
Panikos: The LW75c bugs are so f***** awful.
I started Lightwave 6.5 in July 2001, got the free upgrade to LW 7.0, and then got the free LW 7.5c upgrade. I don't recall having any problems with any versions. I use it every day at work producing future warfighting concept videos for the Marine Corps. With each new project, we try something a little more advance and Lightwave keeps delivering.

I'm looking very forward to LW8, but the honest truth is that I haven't even used up to 50% up what LW7.5c offers. While I wait for the near future release of LW8, I am doing best best to learn as much of LW7.5.

I couldn't be more pleased with this software toolset.

Panikos
02-07-2004, 03:37 PM
Well, everyone uses LW differently.
My scenes are rather heavy, and I use LW very gently, keeping backups.

However I can list quite a few bugs of LW75c that make my life horrible. Cant live with them any more :(
and believe me, I know LW very well to detect that are bugs and not inproper use of software.

DigiLusionist
02-07-2004, 05:26 PM
For me, the wait is getting very strained. The videos and info provided by Chuck and Proton have make it bearable. However, not having information about a projected release date at this point only makes me squirrely, and puts a real strain on my production planning.

I want to use LW for a character-intensive project. The new tools should make it possible to complete the project in the time frame I have allotted for it. Using LW as is would not make the timeframe realistic, and therefore, can't be used in my pipeline.

So, I, too, would like to know when LW8 is coming out. Or, I will have to use Maya for the animation, which will add to my cost, and eliminate additional purchases of LW8 seats, to make up for it.

jamesl
02-07-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Cobalt
I started Lightwave 6.5 in July 2001, got the free upgrade to LW 7.0, and then got the free LW 7.5c upgrade. I don't recall having any problems with any versions. I use it every day at work producing future warfighting concept videos for the Marine Corps. With each new project, we try something a little more advance and Lightwave keeps delivering.

I'm looking very forward to LW8, but the honest truth is that I haven't even used up to 50% up what LW7.5c offers. While I wait for the near future release of LW8, I am doing best best to learn as much of LW7.5.

I couldn't be more pleased with this software toolset.

And you represent 99% of the users out there, which is why Newtek should take all this whining with a grain of salt.

Still, they missed their stated deadline, and I doubt the military puts up with that sort of thing too often... :rolleyes:

j

cagey5
02-07-2004, 06:04 PM
If they're not in a position to give a firm release date by now then I'm getting really worried.
I can understand the pressure they're under and I really appreciate the efforts of Proton and Chuck, but I'm still sat looking at a deal that I paid for last July that I could just as easily snap up today and that's what irks! When I spent my money it was a case of get your order in because this offer ends at the end of the month. So I flexed my credit card and dived in and frankly I wished I hadn't bothered and next time I won't, as badlarma says... "Lesson learnt". I seem to recall Proton using that exact phrase not that long ago in response to a video he posted that wasn't received as he expected and I could understand his frustration because it was an excellent demonstration of the potential of LW8.
But please understand my frustration when I can only watch videos of a program I paid for more than 6 months ago and which is now more than a month overdue with still no expected date.
Proton - Thanks for all the vids, and the time you invest in them, I for one appreciate them for what they are.
Chuck - I giuess you're caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place, but I guess that's what you're paid for and none of this is personal and I do appreciate your measured response in what is often trying conditions.
Newtek - I feel you've handled this upgrade badly. Perhaps others will be more forgiving, but I for one will treat all future offers and deadlines with the same consideration as you give them yourself, i.e. none at all.

mrunion
02-07-2004, 07:40 PM
As I said in another thread -- I'm not angry or upset or anything at anyone (NewTek, opinion-makers, etc.).

But for all of you that go "that's the nature of software development", I wish you were our customers! I am a software developer for a company that does contract development/engineering, etc. If we miss a deadline, there is heck to pay! Cuomsters paid for an ESTIMATE and some pay for a drop-dead-date. The ones that pay for an estimate still get a +/- 10% thing.

I agree with NewTek not releaseing LW until they are good an ready. I don't *know* if they have a release date in mind, but I do *know* that *if* they don't, I too am worried!

Again, thanks Proton, Chuck, NewTek, everyone. I am NOT angry -- this is just my opinion.

jr_sunshine
02-07-2004, 08:31 PM
I agree with NewTek not releaseing LW until they are good an ready. I don't *know* if they have a release date in mind, but I do *know* that *if* they don't, I too am worried!


Yep....

At this point, they should have a good idea about a release date. They said they are in beta which means all the features are locked in and they are just squashing bugs. Add that to the FACT that they already missed one estimate and should already have a good idea of the bugs they need to fix. My point is, if we have been told the truth about being in beta, they should know if they will have the software in 2 weeks or 2 months. A more definative release date (at least better than "later this year") would be nice. In their defense though, I bet they put the "later this year" up to get us all to just shut up. Put the worst case scenario out there and take your lumps. Then people will just shut up. LOL.

nixx
02-07-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by jamesl
And you represent 99% of the users out there, which is why Newtek should take all this whining with a grain of salt.


I don't think that 99% of LW users have never had a problem with any of the 6.5, 7 and 7.5c versions ! Quite the contrary, actually, the bugs are there and they 're nasty, especially in 7.5a/b/c (confirmed by numerous experienced users). And I really don't think that 99% of the users are that cool about the delay, either... But since none of us can actually know what the real percentage is, let's drop it :)

And as for that argument about how most of us "have not even used 50% of the features in 7.5 yet, so we can easily wait some more for 8", well, you know, for some, LW is a tool, not a toy. Your work may be of such kind that you only need 20% of LW's features, and it may well be that you really have exhausted LW's capabilities in that particular subset of features. So yes, you actually do need the next version, because you have outgrown your toolset. The argument "go ahead and master the rest 80%" simply does not stand here.

Finally, I completely agree with DigiLusionist. Sure, the world won't come to an end because LW8 is delayed, but some people are running a business built around LW as the main tool in the pipeline, and they need to be able to plan ahead, if they want to stay competitive. Right now noone can do that, because noone has the slightest idea about when to expect LW8. The videos are nice, but they don't help much or give any real info.

That's my opinion that I felt I had to share.

nick

Hervé
02-08-2004, 02:01 AM
First Panikos, I really understand you as that happened to me also.... and I really dont know why that happened.... and why for now it does not happen anymore (it could come back...), so Yes, I've lost also not a half day at that time, but it was more like 3 full days of work! .... and you guessed it, because I was in a hurry..... no back-ups.... stupido Hervé was I.... I remember watching the empty screen with my jaw on the floor... I felt terrible, and nobody could help, and people keep saying " hey do back-ups frequently!".... like after a car accident.... I told you not to drive so fast ! That is indeed a nasty bug... and I wish for the people saying LW has a 99% user happy list a rude LW Crash ! Bang ! just when you thought it was safe.... he he...

Now for the ones running a business only counting on LW ressources.... let me say something... .... remember the cars before the 60'.... man those cars were full of bugs, remember the first cel-phones (20 pounds without battery) these were even more than buggy, dont know how to call it... now on these days, who would accpet a car that loses oil, a cell-phone that works "sometimes"... nobody.... but we still accept buggy softwares and all the excuses coders are coming with... Imagine buying a car with buggy brakes....

Conclusion. I want ( we all CUSTOMERS want ) a bug free software, and I really dont care how difficult it is... this is really not my problem.... I hope you understand that I am just a customer, really just a customer.

Why am I saying all this again..... hummm ah yeah, nobody laughs or make fun anymore next time one of us has a crash...

"Condolences for your Model Panikos"

(LW crashes are somtimes more harmfull than Car Crashes....)

This is also why today I dont base LW on my principal income... actually it went from 100% of not a lot to 5% of not so bad...

Would you do Taxi cab Driver in a car that has a buggy motor (engine for LW)

PS. My wife 's a painter, and when I've lost all those models (crushed by LW) she knew how I felt, she told me it would be the same things as if someone would erase a painting she did.... so just to say it was hard.... off course you can always redo it, but it touches you.... you see an artist has somehow fragile feelings...

Later, I hope, Hervé

Re...PS we need a good Jackass of 3D, something like building a very complex time consuming tedious model.... and just trash it without even rendering once.... ha ha...

Castius
02-08-2004, 03:09 AM
Tension is very high for LW users, we all know LW needs of this update. But why would you want Newtek to give a new release dates? If they do set a new date its a loose loose situation for Newtek. If they get it done before the new date they would have still missed the first deadline so no one will care. If they miss another deadline they will be burned at the stake. So all you can expect from Newtek is to release LW8 as soon as it's ready.

Panikos i feel your pain. bugs like that are the biggest problem. This is good reason to get off Newteks back and let them take the time needed to be sure to not let that happen to there users.
This statement is not necessarily directed at you.

For those that preordered and feel let down by Newtek I'm really not sure what to say to you. If you trusted Newtek enough to order 6 months in advance and you got half the software upfront DFX+, why don't you trust them now when they say they are close to done but feel it's important that it be delayed to deliver a quality product.

In direct response to the topic I don't think Nab has any bearing on when we will see LW 8 released. With the videos I think they are killing two birds. It looks like Newtek has plans to push all future tutorials as videos since they are a much better way to educate and they also serve pretty well as promotional tools.

Scott Lange
www.steelronin.com

mav3rick
02-08-2004, 05:24 AM
hey panikos:) heheheh dont be sad this f*c*k*i*n s*h*i*t* happen to me on every production .... imagine me when i need to cross fingers on SAVE ALL OBJECTS and hope that next time i load scene i will see objects.... happened me lots of time that in middle of production i lost objects but thx god i did backups every day...... last time it was really hard to keep nerves since i had 5 times loose of object data after i animated 5 hours straight in lw

CB_3D
02-08-2004, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by Castius
Tension is very high for LW users, we all know LW needs of this update. But why would you want Newtek to give a new release dates?

For those that preordered and feel let down by Newtek I'm really not sure what to say to you. If you trusted Newtek enough to order 6 months in advance and you got half the software upfront DFX+,
Scott Lange
www.steelronin.com

Quite frankly, i feel like having preordered a car and sitting on a wheel for 6 months.

The vids are nice and all, but i do think that Chuck should mail an official statement about the delay to the pre-order people. There are some that have to justify the missing product to their boss, after all. This is not only about "wanting that new toy" anymore.

Panikos, never (NEVER!!!) save all objects at once. Do it always (ALWAYS,MAN!!!!!) in Modeler and do it one by one. This way you´ll have increnmental hub backups.

CB_3D
02-08-2004, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by mav3rick
hey panikos:) heheheh dont be sad this f*c*k*i*n s*h*i*t* happen to me on every production .... imagine me when i need to cross fingers on SAVE ALL OBJECTS and hope that next time i load scene i will see objects.... happened me lots of time that in middle of production i lost objects but thx god i did backups every day...... last time it was really hard to keep nerves since i had 5 times loose of object data after i animated 5 hours straight in lw

I remember something like this happening to me frequently in the 6.5-7.0 days. I thought that bug was squashed already. Frightening....

Panikos
02-08-2004, 07:11 AM
I never use Hub. I have it permanently disabled and I have my configs in custom directory. I also have my plugins separated into Stock/Scripts/Commercial/Other so maintainence is easy.

Such bugs are terrifying. Even the OpenGL bugs are serious cause they make the software very unstable. Newtek shouldnt release LW75c at this stage, and they should fix them.

Many people use LW exclusively and feed their families with it.
Often I get so frustrated with it and my crisisism becomes very SHARP. Who's gona pay my lost work ????? and it happened several times.
:( :mad:

Hervé
02-08-2004, 07:16 AM
..... for sure not NT folks....

Castius
02-08-2004, 08:33 AM
I love a good rant about how software can suck to but I’m going to be harsh for a moment.
This happens with ever peace of software. Maya 1 cost many thousands of dollars and it cost us many hours in problems. In Maya 1 you couldn't even delete vertexes in a poly object. The point is if someone doesn’t understand that LW is just a tool. And sometimes you might need to pick up a different tool to get the job done right. Then maybe that person needs to do something else to support you family. Because Nothing Newtek ever does will ever be good enough. I'm not making excuses for Newtek I'm saying taking care of your family comes light years ahead of criticizing a company of its weaknesses. If you really care, help Newtek or get out of the way.

Scott Lange
www.steelronin.com

Panikos
02-08-2004, 09:06 AM
I can list my small contribution :

- I did some work for Newtek 3 years ago
- I read/write in Forums and Mailing List
- I beta test for major plugin developers
- I send news to www.flay.com

I am part of LW world, my activities are due to interest, and constructive input.
If I wasnt interested, I would have said "f*ck it, let others bother"

hrgiger
02-08-2004, 09:10 AM
People keep talking about lessons learned and how they shouldn't have spent their money back in August or July for their upgrade when they could have bought it today. I'm not sure why people are upset that Newtek extended an offer so that as many people could take advantage of it as possible.
The other argument I see is people who bought their upgrade with a credit card because they didn't have the money to buy it but they wanted to take advantage of the DFX offer. I'm not sure how that's Newtek's fault. They're not controlling your money or your spending habits.
I think the only lesson learned here is for Newtek. Don't release information beforehand because a lot of your customers don't appreciate it.

HowardM
02-08-2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
People keep talking about lessons learned and how they shouldn't have spent their money back in August or July for their upgrade when they could have bought it today. I'm not sure why people are upset that Newtek extended an offer so that as many people could take advantage of it as possible.
The other argument I see is people who bought their upgrade with a credit card because they didn't have the money to buy it but they wanted to take advantage of the DFX offer. I'm not sure how that's Newtek's fault. They're not controlling your money or your spending habits.
I think the only lesson learned here is for Newtek. Don't release information beforehand because a lot of your customers don't appreciate it.

Im tired, so tired Stimpy...

Have you listened to anyone who is upset with the extension/lack of lw8 release?

They bought 8 w/DFX a year ago because they thought it was a special offer that wouldnt last long, so they frantically bought 8 with the trust that this offer wouldnt last, that they just had to get this deal or miss out, and 8 would be out 6 months or so later.

So, then the offer is extended for months (why did they have to get this deal so quickly, if we could of waited a year?) and there is still no 8.
Others are upset because they planned to have 8 by 2004 so they could do the big job they lined up. Yeah kinda stupid to plan around something vapour, but still, NT told them it would be out, so why shouldnt they believe them and plan that next big job around the release?

Can you just not understand the justifiable reason to be pissed, and feel like youve been lied to? I think youve got rose colored glasses on!

To you, NT is being a nice guy, extending the offer....appeasing us with Videos.

To others, who dont trust NT (and why should we?) its a slap in the face.

The fact that they were lied to, and still no 8 and no real communications about the release date, is even more of a slap.

This is no longer Howie be a crazy speculator! This is reality, and were getting tired of waiting.
Simple as that.
Stop trying to sugar coat, and ask why is everyone so upset!?
Can we please be adults and face facts and just let NT do whatever theyre going to, because thats all we can do now.

digefxgrp
02-08-2004, 10:14 AM
For what it's worth, I visited with my local Newtek dealer last week and he was told by Jim Plant that Lightwave was about 6 to 8 weeks away from being released. There were some 70+ bugs that still needed fixing. If this is true, then that would put the release just shy of N.A.B.

Craig Paup
DEG

mattclary
02-08-2004, 11:05 AM
I work for a software company. Up until the beginning of this year, I had worked in tech suppport there for almost seven years. I have now moved to QA where my days (and weekends) are spent hammering on our software. Take my word for it, you DON'T want them to rush it. Rushing a piece of software out the door based on a date set by marketing and sales is a sure way get a crappy piece of software.

I personally am grateful for the early upgrade last year. I was using 6.5 and had decided to wait for 8 to upgrade since this is only a hobby for me. When Newtek announced the "Upgrade to 7.x and get 8 free when it comes out", I was on the phone within 10 minutes of the post being created.

It has allowed me to use 7.5 for almost a year now where I would have still been on 6.5.

You have to remember that things are quite different at Newtek than they were in years past. The development staff has completely changed, and they FULLY control the code now. There is going to be a period of adjustment to make up for lost time, spent... well, who knows exactly how it was spent... But now I trust Newtek to get ramped up to speed and things to be great for the future of LightWave.