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jamesl
01-29-2004, 08:01 PM
First, Roy Disney is forced out.

Then, John Musker and Ron Clements leave. And now...

Pixar Ends Talks With Disney (from L.A. Times.com)

* Pixar, which co-produced last year's top-box office draw, "Finding Nemo,"
said it will look for an agreement that allows it to retain ownership of
future movies.

By James Bates and Mary MacVean, Times Staff Writers

Pixar Animation Studios is ending talks aimed at continuing its relationship
with the Walt Disney Co. and will seek a deal with another studio, Pixar's
chief executive, Steve Jobs, said today.

Pixar, which co-produced last year's top box office draw, "Finding Nemo,"
said it will look for an agreement that allows it to retain ownership of
future movies.

Under Pixar's current deal with Disney, which expires next year, the
companies share box office receipts and licensing revenues while Disney
retains the right to make sequels to movies such as "Toy Story" and "Monsters Inc."

"After 10 months of trying to strike a deal with Disney, we're moving on,"
Jobs said in a statement. "We've had a great run together - one of the most
successful in Hollywood history - and it's a shame that Disney won't be
participating in Pixar's future successes."

Disney did not immediately comment. Previously, Disney chief executive
Michael Eisner had said the company was willing to make a new deal with
Pixar that made financial sense and had expressed optimism about the talks.

Pixar, based in Northern California, has two movies yet to deliver under its
Disney deal, including "The Incredibles," due in theaters in November, and
"Cars," which will be released next year.

To date, Pixar's five films have earned more than $2.5 billion at the
worldwide box office and have sold more than 150 million DVDs and videos.

Also...

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/articles/2003/12/02/news/news93.txt

http://www.quicken.com/investments/news_center/story/?story=NewsStory/dowJones/20040128/ON200401280028000017.var&column=P0DFP

http://news.awn.com/index.php?ltype=cat&category1=Business&newsitem_no=10122

takkun
01-29-2004, 08:37 PM
Here's a part from Disney's press release about the matter:

For Summer 2006 and beyond, Walt Disney Feature Animation is producing a series of 3D motion pictures: "A Day With Wilbur Robinson," based on the beloved William Joyce book; "American Dog," directed by Chris Sanders ("Lilo and Stitch"); "Rapunzel Unbraided," directed by legendary Disney animator Glen Keane; and "Toy Story 3". These movies are all anticipated to break new ground in CG movie-making. The Studio has an additional 20 animated features in active development. Personally, I'm very sad that they shut down their 2d animation department. But having Chris Sanders and Glen Keane directing gives me a little hope.

Meaty
01-29-2004, 09:01 PM
Well... Pixar has made enough money that they could probably finance their own movies from now on... so their leaving Disney after their expired contract shouldn't be much of a surprise

jamesl
01-29-2004, 09:23 PM
You're right... they're not worried about financing their movies, but there are about 4 companies capable of distributing a movie, due to contracts with theater chains, so they need a distributor. I'm guessing Warner or Universal will sign them to a sweetheart deal, where they will see more than the 50% gross they were seeing with Disney. They'll probably see 70-80%. Maybe even 90%. Their stock went up 5% today based on this news.

j

milkman
01-29-2004, 09:29 PM
Disney shut down their 2d animation department? That seems very... very wrong.

Gui Lo
01-29-2004, 09:39 PM
From what I understand the Box office revenue is only a small percentage of the overall income. The majority comes from the merchandice(dolls, cards, DVD, etc.)

This is why Lucas did so well with Star Wars even though he had no box office share he had the merchandice rights.

So Pixar saw a share of the box office and licenses takings only which meant that the more successful a movie is the smaller overall percentage they see. And then Pixar is not paid for movies like Toy Sory 2 since it is counted by Disney as a sequal and normally goes straight to home entertainment viewing, and so does not count in the 5 movie deal.

So in the end Disney will get 6 cinema releases for the price of 5.

Not a bad deal but I get the feeling that Disney won the battle but lost the war, or even cut off their nose to spite their face...

...Well something like that.

Gui Lo

mlinde
01-29-2004, 10:34 PM
I wonder if Mr. Eisner is a salesman. With all the bad things happening at Disney lately, it makes me wonder if his biggest issue is profits, not innovation or quality. When profits become more important than quality or innovation you get something like the Apple Performa line from the mid 90s. 15 models of the same bad computer, built poorly and impossible to distiguish from each other. The movie list from the Disney half of the story reads like that.

js33
01-29-2004, 11:10 PM
Well Disney really died the day that Walt Disney died. It lost it's soul when he passed on. Eisner is nothing more than a money grubbing leach. When they took over Disney they tried to turn it into a money machine but they had totally lost any soul that the former Disney company had. Pixar should have never given Disney such a lucrative deal in the first place. It's not like Disney came up with any of the ideas or helped create any of the movies. Pixar did all the work and should have got all the merchandising and rights to all the movies. All Disney did was put them in the theaters. Any distribution company could have done that. Oh well it looks like Pixar has enough staying power to keep on producing hits where Disney lost that ability about 10-20 years ago.

Cheers,
JS

jamesl
01-29-2004, 11:14 PM
The fact that Disney considered Toy Story 2 not part of the original 5 picture deal (a fact that enraged Pixar's Steve Jobs), is the reason that right now, Disney finds itself without any means of producing new product. They have 2 more films on the Pixar deal, but after these recent developments, maybe Pixar gives them 2 crappy films they put together in 6 months and save 'The Incredibles'', 'Cars', and 'Toy Story 3' for themselves. As long as Eisner is following the word and not the spirit of the agreement...

j

js33
01-29-2004, 11:17 PM
Yeah I think Eisner ****ed up right there by not allowing TS 2 by part of the agreement. How did it get extended from 5 to 6 pictures?

Cheers,
JS

jamesl
01-29-2004, 11:23 PM
No... Disney Feature Animation died in the 70's (anyone remember 'Pete's Dragon'?), and was ressurected in the late 80's with 'the Little Mermaid', 'Alladin', 'The Lion King', etc. Without the re-emergence of animation in the late 80's and early 90's, the thought of a feature length 3d animated film would still be folly.

Credit where it is due...

j

tasmanian
01-30-2004, 05:54 AM
I don't think Disney is dead. They have been there before, as mentioned in previous posts. One day they will see the error of their ways and have yet another renaisance.

Besides, who says their upcomming CG features will not be any good ?

PS: Toy Story 3 would, according to the deal they have now, be a Disney production, possibly with but probably without Pixar.
Not that I'm in favour of them making another sequel but that's how it would be.

cresshead
01-30-2004, 06:11 AM
you might find that toy story three is a trad cartoon and not 3Dcgi if disney do it..much like ther buzz lightyear cartton which as straight to video/dvd.

pixar are ace, disney need a kick up the rear to get them back on track..currently they ride on the back of a pixar wave..which i due to hit the beach soon.....they'll need another wave soon...

they should get all those involved in starship troopers roughnecks, dan dare and max steel to form a new CGI branch of disney..using lightwave 8!

:cool: :D

takkun
01-30-2004, 11:33 AM
you might find that toy story three is a trad cartoon and not 3Dcgi if disney do it..much like ther buzz lightyear cartton which as straight to video/dvd. Nope, their 2d department has been almost completely dissolved. I think I heard that they have about six 2D animators left. A lot of them have started a new comany called Legacy Studios.

Matt
01-30-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by milkman
Disney shut down their 2d animation department? That seems very... very wrong.

Walt must be turning in his grave!

pixelranger
01-30-2004, 02:26 PM
Disney hasn't totally shut down it's 2D animation studios, just the one in Florida, AFAIK.

Alot of the great animators from the facility in Florida have gone and formed their own company, called Legacy Animation Studios:

Legacy Animation Studios is a new animation production company specializing in traditional hand drawn (or 2D) animation services for film, television and internet. Its founders are former artists and animators from Walt Disney Feature Animation Florida.
http://www.legacyanimation.net (http://www.legacyanimation.net/)

lonestar1
01-30-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Gui Lo
And then Pixar is not paid for movies like Toy Sory 2 since it is counted by Disney as a sequal and normally goes straight to home entertainment viewing, and so does not count in the 5 movie deal.

Pixar was paid for Toy Story 2. Disney simply refused to count it toward Pixar's contractual obligation of "five original animated films," arguing that a sequel was not an original film.

I sold the last of my Disney stock a couple years ago and invested heavily in Pixar. I have never regretted it.

lonestar1
01-30-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
you might find that toy story three is a trad cartoon and not 3Dcgi if disney do it..

Disney doesn't have enough traditional animators left to do that. Or equipment, for that matter. Michael Eisner thinks the success of Pixar and the failure of Disney films like Treasure Planet is due to public preference for CGI over traditional animation. He even has plans to reanimate original Disney classics like Snow White in CGI. Somehow, he hasn't noticed high-budget CGI flops like Final Fantasy or Disney's own Dinosaur.


they should get all those involved in starship troopers roughnecks, dan dare and max steel to form a new CGI branch of disney..using lightwave 8!

That's what they are doing. (Maybe not with Lightwave). It won't help them, though. At Pixar, they say the three keys to success are story, story, and story. That's where Disney has fallen down lately. Treasure Planet would have been a bad film no matter what software or media it was done in.

Ironically, there are rumors that Pixar may be starting its own traditional animation division. I can foresee a time when critics contrast the fine artistry of a hand-animated Pixar film to the lifeness of Disney's latest CGI mess. :-)

lonestar1
01-30-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by pixelranger
Disney hasn't totally shut down it's 2D animation studios, just the one in Florida, AFAIK.

That's just the latest round of layoffs. They have fewer than 50 traditional animators left in California, and they aren't working on a film for theatrical release. They're doing a short film for test purposes. It will be turned over to the CGI group who will reanimate -- a trial run for Eisner's dream of reanimating all the Disney classics in CGI.

Beamtracer
01-30-2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by jamesl
You're right... they're not worried about financing their movies, but there are about 4 companies capable of distributing a movie, due to contracts with theater chains, so they need a distributor.

Doesn't this mean the 4 distributers have a cartel set-up? Nobody else can break into their market? Shouldn't the antitrust department look into this?

Hiraghm
01-30-2004, 08:07 PM
I can't think of Pixar without thinking of Bols Ewhac (http://ewhac.best.vwh.net/amiga/anims/berserk/)

jamesl
01-30-2004, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Doesn't this mean the 4 distributers have a cartel set-up? Nobody else can break into their market? Shouldn't the antitrust department look into this?

Yep... as soon as they finish looking into Santa Claus' monopoly of Christmas.

j

js33
01-31-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Doesn't this mean the 4 distributers have a cartel set-up? Nobody else can break into their market? Shouldn't the antitrust department look into this?

Beam I can't believe that you're naive enough to not know who runs Hollywood and all other media for that matter. TV, publishing, music, banks and a large part of the government as well. Look into it and you will understand.

Cheers,
JS

Chazz
01-31-2004, 07:57 AM
The funniest part is that they're going to make 'Toy Story 3' without Pixar. That's so disappointing!

archiea
02-01-2004, 01:39 PM
In a nutshell, disney has proven itself incapable of creating capable content.

They have become a licensing company... licensing pixar, Winnie the poo and Nightmare stuff... stuff that was produced outside the studio.

The goal was to use the disney name to push merchandise out.. and some of the most successsful merchandise wasn't an original Disney product.

The current reign, literally, needs to die off, as they will not step down. Its just raw greed thats driving that company... you couldn;t be blinder to your market place....

here's a great analogy that I use to describe how Disney has fallen....

Miyazaki, Japan's "Walt Disney" had retired after an incredible run at the helm of Gibli Studios.. this guy was a story teller.. Story goes that he was at a japanese Amusement park and noticed that the pre-teen girls there were listless and had no conteporary heroes or stories for them either in anime nor manga... So he created a story for them and it became "Spritied Away".

At Disney I recall a time when they showed Eisner a 3D test of Mickey. he asked if you still needed "artist" to do this or if it could be all done on the computer. Supposedly there is a board at Disney where they list classic movies like Casablanca and attempt to assign animal's to the characters as part of their story making process...

Disney has pretty much fired alot of artist, replacing them with PHd's in the belief that they can design a procedural way to create animations... Eisner would love to have a microwave control panal to make his movies of he could: Punch in the death of the parents, punch in the comic side kick and punch in the banana peel (so that the villan can slip on it and die w/o the good guy dirtying his hands), enter the time of 90 mins and you are done....

This is really sad....

js33
02-01-2004, 03:42 PM
Hehehehe.

Sad but so true.

Disney has become the HP of entertainment. :D

Cheers,
JS

Kuzey
02-01-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by mfessenden
The funniest part is that they're going to make 'Toy Story 3' without Pixar. That's so disappointing!

Maybe, they'll add a 2d Mickey to be the new star of the show, pushing Woody and Buzz into the background :o :o

One thing for sure...it'll go straight to video..if that.

Kuzey

Chrysolithos
02-02-2004, 12:06 AM
One thing for sure...it'll go straight to video..if that.

Straight to viewmaster, more likely. ;)

Alan Daniels
02-02-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by lonestar1
They're doing a short film for test purposes. It will be turned over to the CGI group who will reanimate -- a trial run for Eisner's dream of reanimating all the Disney classics in CGI.

Oh dear God! :eek: Is this for real? Does Eisner actually think that people would pay good money to see recycled cartoons?

On second thought, maybe there's a silver lining to this: It will finally be a bone-headed move on a grand enough scale to get Eisner ousted as CEO, and maybe then Disney can start to find its way back home.

Alan Daniels
02-02-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by mfessenden
The funniest part is that they're going to make 'Toy Story 3' without Pixar. That's so disappointing!

I'm sure it will do about as well as your typical sequel where the original creators had nothing to do with it. ;)

cresshead
02-02-2004, 05:05 PM
you never know disney might just re invent itself and do a great job on toy story 3 if they make it..with out seeing anything it'll be down to a good director and a good team of cgi animators...pixar's not the only good cgi producer nowdays remember....shrek, final fantasy, jimmy neutron, iceage,....and all those t.v shows...roughnecks, cubix, max steel, dan dare, tiny planets etc...

disney just need to get some talent in their and do the biz.

open verdict so far...could be real bad or a great new beginnning for disney...the end of "toon" thing has been on the cards scince the release of toy story...maybe disney learned what it needed from pixar and can move forward now on it's own.

Chrysolithos
02-02-2004, 08:09 PM
final fantasy?

cresshead
02-02-2004, 09:02 PM
yup, final fantasy...
it cut new ground and dared to push 3d forward into different demographics..not just the "happy meal" audience that shrek, antz, toy story and finding nemo frequent.

sure it didn't make money..but how refeshing is it that they spent a huge amount of investment in new technology such as hair, cloth,skin etc. which made other films possible such as lord or the rings special fx as an example.[maya]

FF is def a japanese film with a manga storyline..i quite like it...lipsync is "ish" but the film looked great and the story was waaay better than iceage which just left me cold.

Chrysolithos
02-02-2004, 09:38 PM
Well I agree that FF:The Spirits Within is a cutting edge film, but I was disappointed by it as I was hoping for the same level of character complexity that I found In Square Soft's Games, most notably Final Fantasy Seven. I realize that a two hour movie does not allow for the same level of depth that a 40 hour+ game can give you. But I expected more than Plucky Girl, Grizzled Old Scientist, Stalwart Hero with his troop of Wisecracking Grunts. And don't forget the Megalomaniac Insane General who will doom them all. I'm not saying I don't like the film, I was just expecting so much more from Square. Hopefully, the new film will deliver just that. I haven't heard much about it other than it takes place a year after the events in FF7, and that Sepiroth is back.

lonestar1
02-02-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
sure it didn't make money..but how refeshing is it that they spent a huge amount of investment in new technology such as hair, cloth,skin etc. which made other films possible such as lord or the rings special fx as an example.

If you think spending a lot of money, getting no return, and destroying your studio is refreshing --

I remember the director saying that if people came away from Final Fantasy talking about the technology, he would know he'd failed. That's exactly what happened.


FF is def a japanese film with a manga storyline..i quite like it...

So, you're the one. :-)

art
02-02-2004, 09:43 PM
I am also one of those apparently very few who actually liked final fantasy. If not for the story, then at least for the breakthrough (at the time) technology and fx. Story was not the greatest perhaps, but as cresshead said, it was something different. I did not love the story, but I did not hate it either. I've seen worse. I think it was okay for an Japanese style movie.

As for the other studios, I like those guys who made Shrek and Antz (I forgot their name). I like how they put in some funny dialogues targeted at more adult audience.

My 2 cents.

jamesl
02-02-2004, 11:20 PM
Having worked with a number of extremely talented people who worked on the film and who share this viewpoint, Final Fantasy was about a few Japanese millionaires trying to render caucasian women. Story? Who cares! This is supposed to advance the art of animation? Jeez... gimme a pencil, who the hell cares about hair rendering!!!

j

archiea
02-03-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by cresshead
you never know disney might just re invent itself and do a great job on toy story 3 if they make it..with out seeing anything it'll be down to a good director and a good team of cgi animators...pixar's not the only good cgi producer nowdays remember....shrek, final fantasy, jimmy neutron, iceage,....and all those t.v shows...roughnecks, cubix, max steel, dan dare, tiny planets etc...

disney just need to get some talent in their and do the biz.

open verdict so far...could be real bad or a great new beginnning for disney...the end of "toon" thing has been on the cards scince the release of toy story...maybe disney learned what it needed from pixar and can move forward now on it's own.

Yeah, and Lw 8 WAS going to arrive right before Christmas....

heheh...

CRESSHEAD, Forever the optimist...

DISNEY, as a creative entity, is so dead..... Its beyond hoping for a coma victim to wake up... its like rubbing the hand of someone freshly decapitated, hoping that they they will wake up....
Pixar's departure is further proof that Disney, as a content creation entity, is far from rescue... They are constantly thinking within the same mold of though: The disney product name... tieing into some merchandise, doing it on the cheap, and whoreing the disney name to the public.

Further proof is the closing of Disney florida.... that was the only division of Disney that produces anything remotely entertaining (Mulan, Lilo and Stitch) because it was beyond the radar of the brass... at least compared top the California based flagship shows.. (Atlantis, treasure Planet).

From what I've seen, EVERYTHING is wrong at disney, from concept to execution... Conceptually, Eisner thinks that 2D is dead and that 3D is looking into the future, with no real regard to the content. Furthermore, the corporate structure of thinking quarterly goes comp-letely against anything creative.... its sets the sights in following market trends, something that is hard with the 5 year gestation period of film. Whats kewl today, may not be five, eight years down the road. So you are constatnly lagging. This also puts the creative on restraints, as they are to follow a formula...

The writing is often done by conventional writers, and not by animators/artist in the traditional sense. also, its just so formula... I mean the same nonsense, with the comic relief, and elton john doing a song when its not phil collins......

From a standpoint of execution, Alot of films at Disney go throught a costly, often unnecessary rewrite, and hence, reanimation, as this is often decided after a film is considerably done.. The excuse thrown about is "hey, lion king was all fawked up and it came to gether in the end". I kid you not. Often a film is green lit before the boards are complete. You sit and watch a whole presentation, a pitch, and it sucks... literally, you are not laughing... You should be rolling down the aisles in laughter or have a lump in your throat at a pitch from its content before a frame is animated. Instead you hear about how when whopi Goldberg is cast, that she will make it funny.... Again, I kid you not.

Also on the subject of execution... Disney relies WAY too much on proprietary software... I mean they will spend millions reinventing the wheel.. and the propellerheads have no problem propagating that thinking as its a form of job security... I'd say fire the PH'ds. Get off the shelf gear.... use Animo, Shake, 3Dstudio, combustion, LW.... make those your standard toolset... leave the rest to the artist... and before I hear some fool chime in about customized software, remember that Disney artist can make vaseline smeared on glass look ike water. We need more of that thinking than propellerheads using renderman to create shaders that are just going to be cell shaded anyway... I mean.. geez...

Then its the poor souls who are casted as directors for the films... they think its their films.. its not... they were just cast so that they can become the lightning rods for any blame that is issued for the problems on a show, usually because of the execs. Usually they get fired or quit, and then another set of Directors are assigned and the show, two, three, four years in gets put on hold, then restarted or canned... And all of this waste is supposedly normal....

Disney has some serious blood on its hands... it has devistated an industry, displacing hundreds of specialized artist who were rightfully economically and emotionally tied to what was (at least to them) more than just a company or just a job. It was a souce of pride, and achievement for its employees of 10, 20, 40, 50 plus years. I mean disney literally sabatoged its one asset: the artist and their tradition. And has replaced it with PHD's producing computer animation... actually, trying to copy other CG animation studios, in some attempt to appease its share holders that Disney's course is set for the future... meanwhile its literally accelerating its demise....

And dreamworks ain't that bright either.... casting Brad pitt to do the voice of characters... like chicks race to hear brad pitt in a movie as opposed to seeing him....

js33
02-03-2004, 12:35 AM
I'd say that sums up it pretty well. This should be sent to the shareholders just before the boards reelection comes up. :D

Eisner doesn't care about art. All he cares about is how much money they can make whoreing the Disney name to the public.

He finally realized about 8 years too late that 3D is what the audience what's to see. But it's not just 3D that made Pixar films popular it's the story and the characters. Maybe Disney should look into it.

Cheers,
JS

Hiraghm
02-03-2004, 10:15 AM
Everyone's talking about the Pixar/Disney split.
User Friendly (http://www.userfriendly.org/static/)
I think it's funny the way everyone views the Pixar/Disney split. Disney is huge, and goes back nearly a century. Pixar's something like 20 years old. Yet everyone's showing more respect for Pixar than Disney. Not that they haven't earned it...

cresshead
02-03-2004, 12:17 PM
time will tell....the 3d film world is not just pixar, disney is not just the CEO either...i'd like to see what the ney sayers come out with when/if disney make toy story 3 a storming film that tops the box office...i'll wait n see before slamming an "unknown".

js33
02-03-2004, 12:41 PM
If TS3 is successful it will be largely because Pixar have already builtup the expectation for it. Alot of people don't know who Pixar is anyway (I mean your average consumers, soccer moms with kids). They will just think it's another Disney film.

I wonder if Pixar will make half the profits off TS3 while Disney does all the work for a change? :D

Also leaving Pixar time to work on their own properties.

Cheers,
JS

Kuzey
02-03-2004, 03:47 PM
I guess Disney would have to re-model all the characters and sets, I can't see Pixar giving away those assets to anyone!!

I already know the plot to TS3 :

The toys are sick of being toys and one makes a wish to become human/real.

Later that night, a fairy godmother looking alot like Mickey appears and grants the wish. The only problem is they stay the same size and so the fun begins...aka "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids".

I for one... haven't seen shrek, final fantasy, jimmy neutron or iceage.

Sherk is too predictable and boring, final fantasy lost my interest by the time it came out. With jimmy neutron, I didn't want to be stuck in a cinema full of six year olds :p
I loved the iceage preview, it was one of the best ever made!! But the story wasn't up to scratch, a group of animals decide to return a baby back to her tribe..yeah, pull the other pixel :rolleyes: ;)

It's just a matter of time we'll see an animation aimed at adults...I hoping for a very cool horror fantasy flick.

:)

Kuzey

lonestar1
02-03-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
time will tell....the 3d film world is not just pixar, disney is not just the CEO either...i'd like to see what the ney sayers come out with when/if disney make toy story 3 a storming film that tops the box office...

Right, just like Return to Neverland and all those other Disney sequels.

Software is the *least* important part of an animated film. Otherwise, people would still be talking about that smash hit Final Fantasy.

lonestar1
02-03-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by jamesl
Final Fantasy was about a few Japanese millionaires trying to render caucasian women.

I thought it was Eurasian women -- not that it matters.

The producers of Final Fantasy forgot one important principle -- Animation does best what live action can't do. The late Chuck Jones said that if he could teach a coyote and a roadrunner to act, he would. Sure, you can animate a man and a woman having an argument in an elevator -- why would you want to? Final Fantasy could have been done with live actors at half the cost.

tasmanian
02-04-2004, 06:16 AM
Two remarks :

Disney decides to go 3D only and everybody goes balistic. Dreamworks decided to do just the same a few months earlier and nobody seems to mind.

I'm sure there's lots of "behind the scenes" politics going on in all those companies. Deals being made and deals being ended.
The end of the PIXAR-Disney deal is not going to be noticed by the public before 2005-2006 anyway. Long before then they may be back in each others arms again. How about this scenario : Eisner finally quits, Roy & Co talk nice to Steve and voila, a new deal is in the making.

Wait and see, people, nobody is dead yet.

PS: FF was one of the most boring animated films I ever saw, 2D or 3D, another yawning experience was Keana, the prophecy, a French 3D project. Just to say "3D" does not equal "good movie"
How about "good story" equals "good movie" ?

jamesl
02-05-2004, 03:25 AM
Nobody noticed Dreamworks for the four traditionally animated films they made (I know, I worked on them), so why should anyone care when they stop making them? Actually, the word is that Dreamworks is looking for a buyer for their animation division... so maybe Disney is in the market?

archiea
02-06-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by tasmanian
Two remarks :

Disney decides to go 3D only and everybody goes balistic. Dreamworks decided to do just the same a few months earlier and nobody seems to mind.

I'm sure there's lots of "behind the scenes" politics going on in all those companies. Deals being made and deals being ended.
The end of the PIXAR-Disney deal is not going to be noticed by the public before 2005-2006 anyway. Long before then they may be back in each others arms again. How about this scenario : Eisner finally quits, Roy & Co talk nice to Steve and voila, a new deal is in the making.

Wait and see, people, nobody is dead yet.

PS: FF was one of the most boring animated films I ever saw, 2D or 3D, another yawning experience was Keana, the prophecy, a French 3D project. Just to say "3D" does not equal "good movie"
How about "good story" equals "good movie" ?

Uh, according to alot of the former Disney artist who are unemployed or who have had a drastic change of careers, yes, 2D is very dead. 2D died first at Disney, then soon after at Dreamworks... Pixar fueled Disney's decision and Shrek fueled Dreamworks...

There are no scenarios... a legacy was tossed... corporate greed has turned an artform into making widgets, and failing at it. thanks to the accessability of technology, I leave the artfrom up to the independent filmmakers... i'll enjoy Pixar as the new waltdisney, and watch Disney and dreamworks duke it out all the way to the poorhouse... what a bunch of d*cks...

archiea
02-06-2004, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by jamesl
Nobody noticed Dreamworks for the four traditionally animated films they made (I know, I worked on them), so why should anyone care when they stop making them? Actually, the word is that Dreamworks is looking for a buyer for their animation division... so maybe Disney is in the market?

Nobody noticed because they were so formula and unappealing... Meanwhile Spirited Away and the Triplets of Belleville grabbed alot of people just fron the trailers because of their originality. Same can be said about Pixar.. Same can be said about this new japanese anime "tokyo Godfathers"... thats 2D primarily and the story is so interesting...BECAUSE its so unconventional. Mulan from disney was intereting because it was unconventional. Dreamworks had so much potential, especially after the Prince of Egypt, and they couldn't break the mold set by Disney....

how BOLD it would have been for Dreamworks to go the less spectacular and technological route and do something TRULy original... I tell you, the money WASTED at Disney and Dreamworks in recreating Pipelines for each fawking movie is shameful. Instead of firing the artist, ditch anybody with more thatn four years in a NON art-related college... Get Animo, Aftereffects, Shake and combustion, , get Maya and LW, get RUSH and standardise a pipeline.. and then thats it... No exotic renders or custom crap, at least not to the extent of the current geek-gluttony. Sub-contract that out to Newtek or Apple... get them to do the all-nighters in cost consuming intelectual property that never really shows on screen. the rest is up to your artist....

If you were to equate our current workflow to Walt's old days, it would be as if to say that Walt had Expensive craftsmen make pencils, drawing boards and erasers on staff at 20x the cost of buying ready made supplies....