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wizzi
01-29-2004, 12:10 AM
We have been waiting for LW8 quite long now. Someone says that and others say something different. The point is that nobody seems to know when this new, the best, most wanted and waited "upgrade" is coming. If there are Newtek executives reading this post could you please answer to us all, when this new product will be out for real?

themaxx
01-29-2004, 01:14 AM
please please pleeeeaasssee give us a meaningful answer to this.

Alan Safewood
01-29-2004, 07:31 AM
I've even bought it 6 months ago!...

Alan:confused:

Better though, that it's finished properly when it comes.

durden
01-30-2004, 08:36 AM
yeah when is it coming out...it is all getting really annoying waiting years

Chris Partridge
01-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Hi guys,

You know the thing that annoys developers most of all -- constant posts which ask all the time when the product will be released. The answer will always have to be: "When it's ready!" Software development can be a nightmare task: you change something here, something else there gets broken (sometimes several things elsewhere). I'm sure LW 8 will be out soon, but I guess the best thing we can do is let the programmers do their stuff free from the nagging posts of "when, when, when, bla, bla, bla".

ted
01-30-2004, 10:42 AM
At this point, I'm guessing it'll be just before NAB. Ya gotta have something new to show off.
Chris said it best, when it's ready. Otherwise you get hammered for those little things that show up in real world useage.

durden
01-30-2004, 11:13 AM
I hope so man I got no more saliva left

cagey5
01-30-2004, 11:41 AM
Well I'm going to be another of those annoying voices I'm afraid. When Newtek announced the upgrade deal including DFX+ it was an excellent deal with a finite cut off date.
A good way for me to get a new toy to play with that I would never normally touch because of the expense. So I bit and laid out several hundred of my hard earned and bit their arm off. And yeah I hear you, no one forced me to and I got a good deal. When they extended the deal, no gripe from me, the more people that benefit the better, but had I known I would have perhaps have sat on my money a little longer, ok that's marketing and I paid sooner than I needed to. Lightwave eight will be out before the year end, the e-mails tell us that, the web site tells us that so just sit back and wait.

What's this? The web-site didn't say that? It only alluded to a hoped for deadline, apart from the one page where it was quoted in definitive terms but that was apparently was a mistake and Chuck will look into that, so that's alright then. Sounds like a case of back-peddling to me.
Sounds to me like something had to be announced by Siggraph because other packages may be being announced at the same time and Newtek wants everyone to know where Lightwave is going and get them tied in early. Nothing wrong with that it would make sense and surely if you quote Q4 it will be complete by then, everybody's happy. But it wasn't, you missed your deadline, we're now at the end of January, andl the best you can come up with is 'soon'.

Frankly, as regards good customer relations, that's not good enough and if saying so annoys the developers then so be it they're the ones with my money and they should know how frustrated I am.

Finally, please take this as intended, it's not an attack on anyone. It's to indicate to Newtek that we're not all sat patiently waiting. If you are, no problem I'm glad you're blessed with more patience than I.
It's time to communicate, even better, time to deliver.

durden
01-30-2004, 12:28 PM
I second that. What is gonna happen when nine comes out the same thing...the customers deserve better than soon

stijn
02-01-2004, 03:29 AM
I second that, too... Money gone; deadlines gone, no product...
If I miss a deadline, my client will either demand his money back, or demand that I put in MORE work in it for the same price.
Sooooo, i'd like a free NPR renderer for 8.5...:D

Stijn.

Chris Partridge
02-01-2004, 04:38 AM
You think the developers are deliberately holding back from release or something? Of course not...but I'd wager that they want LW8 released as much as all of us. The only difference is the constant criticism of its non-release so far will not speed up delivery.

Turner
02-01-2004, 05:01 AM
Right.

You can bet that every person complaning and griping and whining about 8 not being out will be right back here complaining and griping and whining that it should have been held back until (____) was working properly...

I'm not saying that every person voicing concerns or interest is a whiner of course. Just that I'm pretty sure we can expect complaints on both sides of the release.

I'm as eager as anyone - heck, I'm on a G5 with Panther so there are issues with the graph editor but I'm just learning the program so perhaps I'm in a different boat. Plus, I'm really interested in the physics in the new version.

IMO NewTek should take as long as they need. They probably have internal deadlines and are feeling quite enough pressure as it is. While many concerns and complaints are totally legitimate I feel certain in saying it's better to have a tested, ready product come out the door late than a broken one early.

Andrew


Originally posted by Chris Partridge
The only difference is the constant criticism of its non-release so far will not speed up delivery.

stijn
02-01-2004, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Turner

You can bet that every person complaning and griping and whining about 8 not being out will be right back here complaining and griping and whining that it should have been held back until (____) was working properly...

I'm as eager as anyone - heck, I'm on a G5 with Panther so there are issues with the graph editor but I'm just learning the program so perhaps I'm in a different boat. Plus, I'm really interested in the physics in the new version.



I don't agree. I'm happy with LW and will say so if asked :)
Also, I know that griping won't help at all, but I've refrained for so long... :D



IMO NewTek should take as long as they need. They probably have internal deadlines and are feeling quite enough pressure as it is. While many concerns and complaints are totally legitimate I feel certain in saying it's better to have a tested, ready product come out the door late than a broken one early.
Andrew
[/B]

Thats a valid argument, of course. Everyone wants a solid product. I feel that you, as a panther user have the most right to gripe, as LW is pretty useless without a graph editor, so your current version does'nt even work...

In general, its a bad thing that so many people were expecting the release and are now grumpy. I've got the choice of doing our next project in Messiah or wait for LW 8. I'll probably go with Messiah...and will probably stick with it too.
So why did I buy LW8? Because I thought it would have been released in December.....

Stijn.

Chris Partridge
02-01-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by stijn
So why did I buy LW8? Because I thought it would have been released in December.....



Software deadlines often slip :(

stijn
02-01-2004, 10:14 AM
Yes, yes, you're right, of course, and I understand why. I love LW, I think its ecxellent and very affordable. I'm just being a sour grape here, please accept my apology. :rolleyes:

*Sits back to resume patient wainting...*

Cheers,
Stijn.

acocq
02-01-2004, 12:49 PM
I ordered the LW8 upgrade about six months ago because of the great deal offered with DFX+. Although I look forward to some of the impressive, new features in LW8, there's not a single one that I need so badly today that I'm complaining about the missed deadline.

However, since I have managed a sizable number of software projects, one thing I find annoying is that after the deadline was missed, no new definite date was given.

In my experience, this is a no-no ... not meeting a target date is not uncommon because of the nature of the beast and I certainly applaud NewTek for wanting to deliver a solid product - but being unable to fix a release date (this late in the development cycle) could lead to the impression that NewTek doesn't have a firm handle on its own technology.

And no, I am not trying to badmouth NewTek - but as a loyal, paying customer I feel I have the right to question when a promised, payed-for product will be delivered. Mind you, I am not asking for it today or in two weeks ... all I expect is a more defined delivery date.

From reading the other posts I get the impression that most everyone would be quite content to wait, if only they had a more precise target date.

Cheers,
Andreas Cocq

themaxx
02-01-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by acocq
Mind you, I am not asking for it today or in two weeks ... all I expect is a more defined delivery date.

From reading the other posts I get the impression that most everyone would be quite content to wait, if only they had a more precise target date.

Exactly. Well put.

mrunion
02-01-2004, 05:25 PM
I'm a hobby-ist, so my livelyhood is not impacted by 8 being late. I am also a software developer, and understand both the pressure and reality of deadlines.

My non-NewTek bashing opinions are these:

1) When 12/31 was missed, I would have hoped they BOTH had an idea when the estimated new release date would be AND announce it. We were supposed to get news after the first of the year to that effect (I thought). The videos and such are GREAT! Please kepp it up. I just thought we'd hear more about *when*.

2) Sometime back in July.August I read either an interview, posting, article or something -- and believe me I wish I could remember -- that said something to the effect (I am paraphrasing) "we [NewTek] have been late in the past, so we are committed to not missing this [4th quarter] deadline."

Please, don't interpret what I'm saying as anything except opinions and observations. I don't think all the hype about NewTek sealing their fate because of this holds any water. I do think everyone that paid for a release -- no matter what they got for free -- has the right to ask about when the new release date is estimated to be.

I am a developer, and believe me that when asked if something's ready and I have to say "no", the very next question is "when, then?". If I cannot answer that I am either overwhelmed, or very, VERY busy.

NewTek, do what you need to do. Chuck, Proton, et. al., I understand. I think you guys understand our position too. But "no news" does not mean "good news" in this case. I think that is what is unsettling to most people.

ALL of you -- those waiting AND NewTek -- have my support and understanding. We will get LightWave, and then everyone will be too happy to remember waiting!

peter66
02-04-2004, 04:15 AM
So are the Newtek people just gonna release it whenever without warning? How can they have time to record and post demo videoes but not enough to say what sort of time schedule they've changed to? It's just not good enough!

And btw, you're very very nice people!

:p

stijn
02-04-2004, 04:49 AM
Well, AFAIK the vids are done by Proton, and seem to be his personal initiative. I think Proton has nothing to do with release dates whatsoever. He just does cool stuff....

Proton nice Newtek booo :D :D
(Yes, I'm just kidding.)

Stijn.

Cutty
02-04-2004, 02:27 PM
Ok I'd settle for just a ballpark release date. $500 should at least get me that; I know, "not!".

I've got plans and 8.0 figures into them.

I paid in August of 2003, so I'm asking, "what's the deal yo". Surely you can do more than just say nothing.

No offense intended.

Chuck
02-04-2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Cutty
Ok I'd settle for just a ballpark release date. $500 should at least get me that; I know, "not!".

I've got plans and 8.0 figures into them.

I paid in August of 2003, so I'm asking, "what's the deal yo". Surely you can do more than just say nothing.

No offense intended.

Hi, Bryan!

No offense taken, nor to anyone else being anxious to know what to expect regarding LightWave Eight. We know many of you who purchased the DFX+ special offer as an upgrade from an earlier version of LightWave are eager for LightWave Eight as well. The team is working hard on the new version, and yes, we do hope to have a revised estimate soon, but I hope you'll understand that before doing so we want to make sure it will be accurate down to a reasonable range. Because the team is determined to address a number of the long-standing issues as well as making sure that the new features are fully integrated and absolutely solid, there's a lot of variables to account for.

Dodgy
02-04-2004, 04:29 PM
Because the team is determined to address a number of the long-standing issues as well as making sure that the new features are fully integrated and absolutely solid, there's a lot of variables to account for. [/B]

Yay! Lots of yummy bug fixes :)

themaxx
02-04-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
The team is working hard on the new version, and yes, we do hope to have a revised estimate soon, but I hope you'll understand that before doing so we want to make sure it will be accurate down to a reasonable range. Because the team is determined to address a number of the long-standing issues as well as making sure that the new features are fully integrated and absolutely solid, there's a lot of variables to account for.

so is it safe to assume we're at least a month out?

thanks for the communication.

Chuck
02-04-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by themaxx
so is it safe to assume we're at least a month out?

thanks for the communication.

I'm not making any guesses about what's safe to assume! ;)

As soon as we have some news we can share from the development team, we'll post it. We do appreciate your patience.

Turner
02-04-2004, 05:26 PM
Hi Chuck -

As I've posted all over the place, IMO it's far better to get something better than to get something sooner. Take your time - work it out. Please pass it on to the crew.


Originally posted by Chuck
I'm not making any guesses about what's safe to assume! ;)

As soon as we have some news we can share from the development team, we'll post it. We do appreciate your patience.

Matt
02-04-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
Because the team is determined to address a number of the long-standing issues as well as making sure that the new features are fully integrated and absolutely solid

Very good to hear that Chuck!

Sounds like the new team are very positive and eager to make LightWave the best it can be. I can't wait to see what they do for v8.5 / v9!

:)

Matt

Turner
02-04-2004, 05:39 PM
Yes, speaking of 8.5 and 9, when is 8.5 due out?

I'm hoping we can get some sort of release date for version 9, too. I have a project I've started that depends on it; no need to keep us hanging you know. I have clients to please. At least I can blame the tool.


Originally posted by Matt
Very good to hear that Chuck!

Sounds like the new team are very positive and eager to make LightWave the best it can be. I can't wait to see what they do for v8.5 / v9!

:)

Matt

fabmedia
02-05-2004, 10:54 AM
That's completely hilarios!!!! Love the humour. I'm personally waiting for 15....



Originally posted by Turner
Yes, speaking of 8.5 and 9, when is 8.5 due out?

I'm hoping we can get some sort of release date for version 9, too. I have a project I've started that depends on it; no need to keep us hanging you know. I have clients to please. At least I can blame the tool.

wizzi
02-05-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by fabmedia
That's completely hilarios!!!! Love the humour. I'm personally waiting for 15....

I'm glad my question have rised other questions like when LW 9 is going to be out. Now we know a) we have not been informed when LW8 is coming out b) NewTek hasn't been very polite to us customers, even for those who have already bought the new coming program. There are many things that should work better. I am very new to LW, just been using it for two months or so and I very much like it. But I don't like the way it works in Panther. But NewTek people, please inform us as soon as possible because there are many investments to be done and information about LW8 is very crucial when making decisions. Roger and out.

fabmedia
02-06-2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by wizzi
NewTek hasn't been very polite to us customers, even for those who have already bought the new coming program. There are many things that should work better.

That's not very fair. Newtek has been extremely polite to us and is very, very fair. They've kept us in the loop for the most part and alway have given the X.5 version for free.

Newtek is a very optimistic company, unfortunately a glitch happened with OS 10.3 that has affected their time schedule. I can't blame them for making something good, rather than releasing a program that really doesn't work.

Cheers!
Arlen

pauland
02-06-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by wizzi
I'm glad my question have rised other questions like when LW 9 is going to be out. Now we know a) we have not been informed when LW8 is coming out b) NewTek hasn't been very polite to us customers, even for those who have already bought the new coming program. There are many things that should work better. I am very new to LW, just been using it for two months or so and I very much like it. But I don't like the way it works in Panther. But NewTek people, please inform us as soon as possible because there are many investments to be done and information about LW8 is very crucial when making decisions. Roger and out.

I don't think you'd recognise polite, if it ran you over.

I've yet to see any product have more information provided about it prior to release than Newtek have already given.

If lack of politeness and information is such a problem, then you'd be better off investing elsewhere. Easy decision for you.

Paul

fabmedia
02-06-2004, 06:11 PM
I agree.

Arlen

durden
02-07-2004, 11:30 AM
I found online that LightWave 8 Killer Tips book is scheduled to come out april 8th. So I am guessing we'll get it before then.

http://www.informit.com/isapi/product_id~{F9D4C876-4FF7-4384-8F40-A71D08C763C4}/st~{CA1FEB69-C272-4194-9449-92E4E051EC35}/session_id~{475A405F-EACB-4EC5-B7EE-39CF7716B14B}/content/index.asp

Turner
02-07-2004, 08:50 PM
How long after a software release does a book come out? Or does it come out consecutively?

For example, Inside Lightwave 7?

I ask because it seems logical that only the features that have been "finalized" can be commented on since the lead time to produce a book is pretty steep. And you can't really... ah.. "patch" a book.

Andrew

durden
02-08-2004, 12:01 PM
All the features in Lightwave 8 have already been finalized, The books usually comes out right after the program does. The book was scheduled to originally come out in December, I think it was december 21, then I saw it got pushed back to April. All the Lightwave 8 books are finished from what I can tell. They are waiting for Newtek to ship the product. Not a bad trick for telling when they are planning on coming out with the product...eh. I was looking into buying one and saw the release date. Of coarse if newtek is still not ready they will tell the publishers to push the date back....

durden
02-08-2004, 12:19 PM
correction in the past books have been released a couple of months later after the program came out but in this case it appears to be scheduled together, considering it was suppose to come out in December concurrent with Newtek's first release date, although no one really knows except them, just an educated guess. So I guess if I am wrong then we'll get the program sooner, which is good!

Verlon
02-08-2004, 10:36 PM
Its all my fault. I asked Newtek to extend the upgrade offer until I got my tax refund, and they have gratiously agreed to do this for me. However, they have to wait to release LW8 to do this.

The only hitch is I am waiting on some documentation from my mortgage company to actually file my taxes. I am expecting this documentation any day now, and will promptly do the paperwork.

I am certain LW8 will be out and the upgrade offer ended about 24 hours before I get the money. It shouldn't be too much longer.


Verlon

Norman
02-09-2004, 03:34 AM
Maybe we should all write your mortgage company and complain? Couldn't hurt. :D

stijn
02-09-2004, 03:40 AM
Yeah, lets channel some of that negative energy towards Verlon's mortgage company and let Newtek be :D Maybe it'll help! ;)

Stijn.

Verlon
02-09-2004, 08:37 PM
Besides, its much more fun to complain to a mortgage company that our favorite software company, right?

Turner
02-09-2004, 09:04 PM
You obviously don't own a home...


Originally posted by Verlon
Besides, its much more fun to complain to a mortgage company that our favorite software company, right?

Verlon
02-09-2004, 10:38 PM
well, I own the part the mortgage company doesn't....

And if I made my payments with the same efficiency they handle issues like taxes and insurance, I would have been forclosed long ago.

Turner
02-10-2004, 04:55 AM
Darn straight.

We refinanced and were thrilled to get away from Chase Manhattan; one payment later they bought our loan and proceeded to make mistake after mistake again.

Hey, doesn't cost THEM anything, hm?

Oh yeah - and I'm looking forward to LW8 ;)


Originally posted by Verlon
well, I own the part the mortgage company doesn't....

And if I made my payments with the same efficiency they handle issues like taxes and insurance, I would have been forclosed long ago.

Bonedaddio
02-10-2004, 04:01 PM
Hi
My two cents:
One of the most frustrating experiences I will EVER have was buying (I think it was) Dan Ablan's book on Lightwave 6.0. Right after I got the book, NT brought out 6.5 (6.0 WAS really awful) and changed the menuing and other things that made serious study with the book just about impossible. I'd wind up calling Tech Support and asking them where they'd cleverly hidden the feature or function I was looking for. It was so frustrating that I decided I didn't want to learn to make any of Dan's projects... I usually want to do something other than what his tutorials cover anyway.

This is what I learned:
1. Go with Larry Schulz et. al. (even if he still owes me a refund, and a DVD (at least he's nice about it)?!!)
2. Be greatful that 8's taking a while to come out, maybe 8.5 won't be needed right away to stop the hemorrhaging!
3. Don't complain, I could've stayed a welder.

I want it too.

thebone

Verlon
02-10-2004, 08:13 PM
Great News! Got the info today.

So, Assuming I go to tax people in the morning and prepare for super rapid refund, the earliest I could have a check is Thursday. I predict LW8 tomorrow.


Verlon