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tomglod
01-28-2004, 04:49 PM
Hello,

I've decided to go to school and finally begin to learn one of these 3d packages. I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they feel lightwave 8 will compare to maya 5..... and which one I should choose.

I have heard that maya is the most powerfull of all..... but I've tried lightwave before..and it seems a lot easier to learn.

Any help would be great!

Thanks

Tom

doug_wilkinson
01-28-2004, 05:17 PM
lw is easer to learn, 1 person can go further faster.

maya is the film champ, used by huge teams. super specialized people.

so what do you want to do? work with large teams and do specific things (textureing, particles) or a little of everythjing.

if specific --> maya
if a little of everyhting --> lw

1millionth time i';ve seen this question. don't worry about it though. i use both. there is enough time to learn both.

Dodgy
01-28-2004, 05:32 PM
Yup, maya can be very confusing for the beginner. You can always download Maya ple later when you've got to grips with the whole 3d thing.

Red_Oddity
01-30-2004, 05:06 AM
The reason Maya is so powerfull (among other reasons) is the way it was written.
Maya was written with open-ness (is that a word) and scripting in mind.
It is very easy in Maya to bang an MEL script onto basically everything else thus allowing you expand your tools (also, Maya's Hypergraph is amazing.)

LW is just easy (and different) and has most tools just out of the box, it works well, has a decent renderer and is unfortunatly not as open as Maya is.

One thing both programs have in common is that they both need lots and lots of workarounds to get anything done inside a real work environment where anything more complex is being done than making a shiny plastic ball bounce, but these 'workarounds' you'll pick up along the road when working long enough with any given piece of software.

Just don't believe any 'making-offs' or other such propaganda that make you think Maya is the end to all means, not one piece of (3d) software is.

Just go with what your budget allows you to buy or what seems to you the most easy to use, you can always switch later on, all 3d software is basically build on the same basic principals.

j3st3r
01-30-2004, 06:58 AM
IMHO, Maya has very powerful architecture, allowing you to solve different problems in many ways. There are many powerful tools, and it`s really fast. With LW you can do things much easier, sure. My opinion is that LW is the best for modelling, but Maya is excellent for animation, and rendering (with Mental Ray)

meshmaster
01-30-2004, 08:24 AM
I think a combination of Lightwave and Motionbuilder beats the heck out of anything that Maya can do by itself. There were some Motionbuilder PE upgrade offers out there, but think they may be over now.

j3st3r
01-30-2004, 01:51 PM
I`m not convinced about this. I use all of them on daily basis, and I can assure you that nothing can beat Maya connection abilities. Motionbuilder and LW is an excellent pair of weapons, but Maya flexibility cannot be beaten. Okay, LW and motionbuilder could drive faster to certain solutions, for sure

Matt
01-30-2004, 02:05 PM
LightWave is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper too! :)

Turner
01-30-2004, 08:20 PM
Lightwave is EASY?

Let's not kid ourselves here.

I've been using lots of different 3d programs and almost none has had me scratching my head the way LW has.

Let's see... you want to use Sasquatch Lite? You have to enable it in TWO places... Ok, not too hard, since the manual says it right off the bat. But still, wouldn't you think the program would be "smart enough" to enable it in Effects when you tag it on to an object? Come on!

Not to mention modeler.. Send to layout - what - replaces whatever you have currently? Huh? And if you import something else, it changes the first object you've imported to the same object? Wha?

How about keeping related windows open and in a scrollable panel on the side of the screen?

Let's see... how do I control the camera from within camera view? Not with the same controls I use in Perspective view. But they're available through key combinations. Why?

Look, Lightwave has a LOT going for it, EASE of learning is not one of the things. ANYTHING is easy once you become proficient. But if you might suggest that intuitive interface and workflow is part of ease, Lightwave ain't easy.

Maybe some of this will be addressed. Maybe not. I know Lightwave is highly configurable (based on what the manual says) but until you know how to use it all there's no sense in shifting things around at first. Either way, sure, you can learn Lightwave. But I'll say this: things that are dead dumb easy in other programs should also be that way in this one.

2

Andrew

tomglod
02-01-2004, 02:57 PM
Hi Guys,

Thanks alot for the reply......I think that in a sense it doesn't matter what program I choose to learn, that all of them can pretty much do the same things..... or so it seems from the galleries and samples I've seen. I thik I'm going to go with Lighwave..wait till Lightwave 8......Maya is too freakin complicated.......too many buttons and checkboxes and words that I do not understand....Lightwave seems to appeal to the creative aspect mroe then the technical....plus I don't thikn I will ever get into scripting and stuff...don't have a programmers mind.

Thanks alot guys for all your answers!

Tom

SamuraiSlayer
02-01-2004, 05:57 PM
Turner: the reason things are enabled in 2 places is so that you can setup the scene with Sasquatch/SasLite or whatever else and when you want to do a test render without using SasQuatch you can disable it from the pixel filter menu and still have all the objects with the same settings, so when Sas is enabled later on you dont have to setup the settings again--

anyone can learn lightwave, i'm sure thats true about other programs also, and i'm not gonna dis Maya because I've never used it

:)

stijn
02-02-2004, 02:52 AM
Lightwave seems to appeal to the creative aspect mroe then the technical....plus I don't thikn I will ever get into scripting and stuff...don't have a programmers mind.

Wise choice :D I think you just put your finger on it.., LW is more inspiring to me too. In the long run, you can do a helluva lot more in Maya though. (thats why it costs at least 7 times as much...)

Turner: You're right, LW is not a very logical or intuitive program and its interface confuses most people. (and it is not very configurable at all.)
Considering its history, I doubt that this will ever change. (otherwise it would have been one integrated app by now...) However, when you're used to its quirks, it just Rocks, Vooms, and Zooms like nothing else. :D

my 2 eurocts..
Stijn.

akota
02-02-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Matt
LightWave is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper too! :)

Hmm, don't know about waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper. List price for Maya 5 Complete is $1999. List price for LW is $1595. I actually was drawn to Maya by it's built in rigid and soft body dynamics. I personally get too frustrated with MD, and there's currently a total lack of a built in ridig body solution. I think these tools alone would offset the price difference. Though, it looks as that's about to change when(?) LW8 makes it through the gates...

Just my $2. Used to be $.02, but gotta account for inflation, cost of living, yada, yada...

akota
02-02-2004, 10:44 AM
IMHO, I still think it all boils down to picking the right tool for the job. I haven't seen ANY app, 3D or otherwise, that provides all the features under the sun a user could ever want. I know the original poster was looking for suggestions as far as what to start with, but it looks like the heart of the question got diluted into the beginnings of an app war...

Turner
02-02-2004, 11:00 AM
FWIW I don't think the "heart of the question" got diluted...

"Maya 5 vs. Lightwave 8"

Stressing "vs."...

Anyway, it's all about the app war, if that's what critical comparison is.

Fact is, LW, just like anything else, is just a tool.


but it looks like the heart of the question got diluted into the beginnings of an app war...

akota
02-02-2004, 11:06 AM
I more or less took the heart of the question to be that he finally wants to "begin" learning, so what would be better for him to start with. From there it looked like people were diving way in beyond his starting point. Things like MEL scripts, connections, etc. Maybe I was wrong. Just offering my opinion :-)

SamuraiSlayer
02-02-2004, 01:52 PM
dont anyone argue with me because im using the set of words "My personal opinion is..." and everyone has their own opinion :)

My personal opinion, tomglod, is that you should use LW, as you are just starting out and LW is an easy to use program. LightWave is cheap and not very time-consuming. Probably not as time consuming as Maya because no, its probably not as configurable(dont forget about LScript, but no, its not very configurable and i admit to that). I like the idea that LW has a Modeler and a seperate Layout. This means that it is easier to find the controls that you need, because if you're in modeler then you know that you arent going to come across any animation tools.

If you arent going to work for a major 3D effects company, then i would suggest LW. The program is just the tool, and you need to have the talent. Certain tools are good for certain things, and some are better than others at certain things. It all depends on what you are going to use the tool for, as a carpenter wouldnt use a garden rake for his carpentry, you dont want to use Lightwave or Maya for something they werent designed to do. So to start off with, what exactly is it that you are planning on using LW/Maya for?

I cant say that LW is better than Maya or vice-versa because i've used LW but not Maya. I also cant say that I love LW8 because I havent used it yet, as it hasnt been released.

If we know what you are going to use LW or Maya for, then we can have a opinionated battle, and you can use your own judgement.

:)

Turner
02-02-2004, 02:10 PM
"This means that it is easier to find the controls that you need, because if you're in modeler then you know that you arent going to come across any animation tools."

Or, the appropriate tools could show up for what you currently have selected, like so many other programs...

Personally as a newbie I find the dual-app system helpful in some ways and daft in others. However, it may keep the overhead to a minimum, which is always good.

Andrew

Freak
02-02-2004, 11:32 PM
Do you want to work for a Studio?
Do you want to run your own show, or freelance?

If you would like to work for a Studio, Maya is the only choice.
If you would like to be your own Boss, than LW is better, mainly for it's unlimited rendernodes......

It's that simple..................

The other stuff like:

A/W are a much bigger company, with much deper pockets, and are developing Maya at a much more rapid pace.

Maya is newer! it was designed to be a more open, architecture
from the ground up, so that by version 4 or 5, it was / is the best 3D software around.

LW has lost the majority of it's development team to Luxology.
LW8 has been delayed, and delayed again......
And has an unproven team.

The specs for LW8 seem rather vague and sounds like a rerun..
of previous versions. (Faster OGL, Multiple selection in surface editor, Soft body dynamics) Honestly, i fear for LW's future!

Having said that, i hate Maya, and Love Lightwave with a passion!
Which is why that paragraph, hurts to read over again...

jimmyboy1
02-03-2004, 09:13 AM
I've been using Maya for years (so maybe I'm biased) and have just started with a company that uses Lightwave. I'm getting the hang of things fairly quickly but am missing Maya.

With Maya there are HUGE and FREE resources all over the internet for plugins, scripts, textures, etc. I have found some for Lightwave, but it seems everyone wants you to pay for the same stuff that's free for Maya.

Maya's interface is highly customizable and works like any Windows based program. Lightwave for some unknown reason thinks its interface is superior to 98% of the rest of the world.

This is HUGE!!!! Maya has unlimited undos in every aspect - keying, texturing, modeling, - whatever. Lightwave's Layout has only one level of undo - and even then not everything is undo-able at all!!??!! I accidentally moved a group of key frames in the graph editor and couldn't undo the move!!??!!

That stuff being said, I do agree with the people that from an artists point of view, don't get caught up in the software. All the basic concepts are the same. If you are focusing in a certain area (character anim, texturing, lighting, ect.) focus on being the best at that and the principals will carry into whatever 3D package you use.

IMO, if you aren't going to need Maya fur, cloth, or water dynamics, go with Maya Complete - more bang for the buck, and more companies are using/switching to Maya.

cresshead
02-04-2004, 06:39 PM
what do you want to do with your 3d app and who do you want to work for?

t.v /films effects and total cgi shows...lightwave and maya are used extensivley on both film and t.v..actually t.v is just about wall to wall lightwave with only small bits leftover for maya,max and xsi

games is mostly 3dsmax by a huge margin then follwoed by xsi and maya then lightwave..though lightwave is used on many games for modeling to very cutting edge models for games such as the new doom 3 for example with in a predomonant max or maya house you'll find lightwave in use too

tv idents max/maya/xsi and lightwave....not much to choose on that one.

print graphics for books , magazines...mainly lightwave and 3dsmax

architectual previz and firms manly use 3ds viz and lightscape with 3dsmax and lightwave plus a tiny bit for maya and about ziltch for xsi

freelance work is mainly max and lightwave with maya becoming more strong in recent times...xsi and cinema trail here.

medical and scientific work for nasa, hospitals and high tech previz work...lightwave and max are very strong with maya in third but gaining due to it's price drop.

web graphics...al 3d apps can do this...even bryce....lo pay though.

cel shaded 3d anime cartoons is mainly lightwave and xsi doing the biz in the 3d sections of these films....maya and max are no where to be seen in large numbers.

so there you go....IMHO

steve g

gjjackson
02-04-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by meshmaster
I think a combination of Lightwave and Motionbuilder beats the heck out of anything that Maya can do by itself. There were some Motionbuilder PE upgrade offers out there, but think they may be over now.

I've just gotten an email from Kaydara and you can purchase the full MotionBuilder 5 for $495, half or so the price regularly.

BTW- MotionBuilder 5 is excellent. From what I've seen of 8 so far, MB still does so much more. There are so many motion presets that little editing needs to be done.

The one thing I didn't like about Maya is using the spacebar and those menus pop in, and having to select by dragging etc. I'd much rather just click the damn button.

As far as plugins go; I've found tons of them all over the net. Too numerous to mention. Many dirt cheap. Many free. Also you can use the script commander to do quite a bit. You can easily write your own scripts. Whatever the app, it's whatever you do with it. I've also seen some impressive work done with the Free 3D app, Blender.

Quicksilver
02-10-2004, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by Freak
Do you want to work for a Studio?
Do you want to run your own show, or freelance?

If you would like to work for a Studio, Maya is the only choice.
If you would like to be your own Boss, than LW is better, mainly for it's unlimited rendernodes......

It's that simple..................

The other stuff like:

A/W are a much bigger company, with much deper pockets, and are developing Maya at a much more rapid pace.

Maya is newer! it was designed to be a more open, architecture
from the ground up, so that by version 4 or 5, it was / is the best 3D software around.

LW has lost the majority of it's development team to Luxology.
LW8 has been delayed, and delayed again......
And has an unproven team.

The specs for LW8 seem rather vague and sounds like a rerun..
of previous versions. (Faster OGL, Multiple selection in surface editor, Soft body dynamics) Honestly, i fear for LW's future!

Having said that, i hate Maya, and Love Lightwave with a passion!
Which is why that paragraph, hurts to read over again...

He speaks wisely...may I add,*again*, that maya is availiable for Linux?
I do not hate Maya, I like them both for different reasons. However I prefer LW as it is far far more straightforward and easy to use. Plus the GUI is somewhat "smoother" don' t you think??

siproductions
02-11-2004, 11:06 PM
Software is just a tool. The artist is the most important part. Take a look at galleries and you will see this to be true. :)

That being said, I found LW very easy to pick up, and I think it is a great program.

Turner
02-12-2004, 06:13 AM
No offense, but I chuckle a little each time I hear this argument.

Personally, I'd love to own every 3d package there is. To suggest, however, that software is "just a tool" (an argument I've heard in many forms over the years) is simply ridiculous.

Example: Let's have a contest to see who can cleanly put 10 nails in a piece of oak. I'll take this here crappy old hammer; you, my craftsman friend, get your choice of a soda straw, a frog, or a kimono.

Let's get to work.


Originally posted by siproductions
Software is just a tool. The artist is the most important part.

akota
02-12-2004, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by Turner
No offense, but I chuckle a little each time I hear this argument.

Personally, I'd love to own every 3d package there is. To suggest, however, that software is "just a tool" (an argument I've heard in many forms over the years) is simply ridiculous.

Example: Let's have a contest to see who can cleanly put 10 nails in a piece of oak. I'll take this here crappy old hammer; you, my craftsman friend, get your choice of a soda straw, a frog, or a kimono.

Let's get to work.

Hrmm,... Somehow, I don't think that he implied using the WRONG tool. I don't think he meant that he'd use Microsoft Word for 3D work, as in your analogy of using a frog to pull nails...

akota
02-12-2004, 06:29 AM
In continuation, I agree with the notion that the artist is the most important part. Even in your analogy, if you don't know how to wield your hammer, you'll get about the same number of nails out as that kimono.

However, I think there should be a balance here. Between the software and the artist, the artist is most definitely the more "important" factor. But they go hand in hand. The artist can't work without the software and the software can't work without the artist. Just remember, people have different needs as well as different grips. Your hammer may not feel right to someone else, so they find one with a different grip. Your hammer may have, or may not have, a feature that someone else needs. So they find the hammer that fits their grip and fulfills their tool needs.

Turner
02-12-2004, 06:29 AM
Well, of course, I'm exaggerating to stress a point...

The point being that the tools ARE VERY IMPORTANT. They need to be chosen based on what you want to do, not necessarily what your abilities are.

Tools have different capabilities, obviously; I sure can hammer a nail with the handle of a screwdriver if I have to. So if different tools can do the same job, it's completely legitimate to suggest that one is superior for certain jobs.

The abilities of the artist/designer/whatever may include the knowledge and patience to do things the slow way, or the inefficient way, or the workaround way, but should not have to be called upon to do so.


Originally posted by akota
Hrmm,... Somehow, I don't think that he implied using the WRONG tool. I don't think he meant that he'd use Microsoft Word for 3D work, as in your analogy of using a frog to pull nails...

akota
02-12-2004, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by siproductions
Software is just a tool. The artist is the most important part. Take a look at galleries and you will see this to be true. :)

That being said, I found LW very easy to pick up, and I think it is a great program.

It seems we are all in some loose form of agreement here. Your response to the above quote just seemed to be out of place. It appears the "software is just a tool" line struck a nerve with you that sent you typing a little too quickly, no offense ;)

stijn
02-12-2004, 06:42 AM
Okaaay..., I see your point, but I've got a hard time to think of tools that are represented in one (big) package and not in the other..., If you're a good modeler, you'll make a good model. If you're a good character animator, you'll be able to do good animation in any package, even Lightwave... ;)

Sure, tools are important, but there simply are no frogs or kimonos in this comparison. If Maya is a hammer, LW is simply a smaller and cheaper hammer.

Lets indeed go back to work.:D

Turner
02-12-2004, 07:52 AM
Physics

akota
02-12-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Turner
FWIW I don't think the "heart of the question" got diluted...

"Maya 5 vs. Lightwave 8"

Stressing "vs."...

Anyway, it's all about the app war, if that's what critical comparison is.

Fact is, LW, just like anything else, is just a tool.

Hmm, I also find it interesting that you yourself posted the above quote "Fact is, LW, just like anything else, is just a tool."

:D

akota
02-12-2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Turner
No offense, but I chuckle a little each time I hear this argument.

Personally, I'd love to own every 3d package there is. To suggest, however, that software is "just a tool" (an argument I've heard in many forms over the years) is simply ridiculous.

Example: Let's have a contest to see who can cleanly put 10 nails in a piece of oak. I'll take this here crappy old hammer; you, my craftsman friend, get your choice of a soda straw, a frog, or a kimono.

Let's get to work.

Are these two quotes from the same Turner?

Turner
02-12-2004, 08:05 AM
Yes, and I don't think you'll find anyone sensible to either suggest they're mutually exclusive, or that your tools shouldn't be based on your needs but rather your abilities.

And I bet you thought you really got me there, hm? ;)


Originally posted by akota
Are these two quotes from the same Turner?

akota
02-12-2004, 08:10 AM
:D

Excellent debate! I had fun!

Careful with those frogs and kimonos! ;)

Turner
02-12-2004, 08:22 AM
Did I mention the frog was frozen?

:confused: :D

My bad....




Originally posted by akota
:D

Excellent debate! I had fun!

Careful with those frogs and kimonos! ;)

akota
02-12-2004, 08:36 AM
ohhh, well now that changes everything! :D

siproductions
02-12-2004, 02:37 PM
@ Turner: Not to be rude, but I thought that we were talking about LW and Maya, not frogs and kimonos. Yes of course you can't say that a hammer is the same as a hard boiled egg. ( though they can be fun when both are placed in the same room with a person like me :D ) We are talking about comparable 3d packages.

Now before you get all over me with that last statement, I know that Maya is more powerful in some ways than LW. That being said. I have seen art work done in LW that was just as good as the best art work I have seen done in Maya or 3ds. If you can make it in Maya you can make it in LW. Maybe not as easily, but you can do it. I am talking about the final render ( what the client sees ) Not ease of workflow or any thing like that.

So in that respect the artist is more important than the package used. ( there does need to be a packaged though;) )

The question was Maya vs. Lightwave?

The answer: Lightwave= good+fast+cheap
Maya = better+expensive

Of course the answer is more complex than that, but that is a good starting off point. :)


@ stijn: I think you hit the nail on the head. ( no pun intended )

TheAlienGus
02-12-2004, 03:46 PM
Ok, my turn now.

This debate is pointless, to the gentleman wanting to know which app to go with, i would suggest:

1 Download a demo version of both apps!

2 Mess around in them for a couple weeks!

3 decide which suites you better.

4 Buy that application.

5 Have fun.

6 Be creative.

Going to a Lightwave or Maya forum is pointless. You will get
biase opinions, and it's not right to you.

I am not biase because:

A i OWN BOTH

B I AM LEARNING BOTH

C I AM HAVING FUN WITH BOTH

Now i do prefer Lightwave over Maya, because of a couple dumb reasons. I've gone farther with Lightwave, Faster. Farthermore, the people on this forum are wonderful and have been far more helpful with my dumb questions, and alot nicer to boot. Thank you everyone!

Stormy151
02-13-2004, 02:43 AM
I was trained on Maya, I didn't find it difficult to pick up- However now I'm trying to learn LW and the interfaces are so different, it makes it hard.

I dunno, if I was designing an app for a competitive marketplace like the 3d animation field, I would think I'd try to design it to make it as easy to switch over as possible- i.e. use the same interface to tumble/pan the views. In LW you have to use combinations of Ctrl/Shift to change movements, in Maya it's Alt and combinations of 2 mouse buttons.

Apple can maybe take a plan from this playbook too.

Turner
02-13-2004, 04:06 AM
A note about the interface -

I read a lot about how LW doesn't have "confusing" icons by its implementation of an all-text menu...

Got news for ya...

1) Words don't help if you don't know what they mean - if people are suggesting that they can't remember what a bunch of little icons mean, well... how will they remember what the words mean? Personally I find it much faster to pick out a unique icon from a stack than a word.

2) Icons take WAY less room

Just saying


Originally posted by Stormy151
I was trained on Maya, I didn't find it difficult to pick up- However now I'm trying to learn LW and the interfaces are so different, it makes it hard.

I dunno, if I was designing an app for a competitive marketplace like the 3d animation field, I would think I'd try to design it to make it as easy to switch over as possible- i.e. use the same interface to tumble/pan the views. In LW you have to use combinations of Ctrl/Shift to change movements, in Maya it's Alt and combinations of 2 mouse buttons.

Apple can maybe take a plan from this playbook too.

stijn
02-13-2004, 04:59 AM
I find a discussion about buttons rather silly, every interface is confusing when you see it at first.
First thing I do is configure the keyboard shortcuts and make the interface as unobtrusive as possible. (either in Maya or in LW.) The only thing you could say about it is that LW is rather inflexible in that regard. (hard to customise.)
Icons, words... whatever ;) You should'nt be pushing those buttons anyway.:D

PS: Nendo rocks! :p

Billthemarmet
02-13-2004, 04:44 PM
funny thing. the most perplexing tool(to me) in LW became my favorite one after i finally figured it out..."BANDSAW!"

SamuraiSlayer
02-13-2004, 07:04 PM
let's put it this way Maya and LW users:

True or False-

Lightwave would be most ideal to a person who has no or not very much previous experience in 3D applications. Hypothetically, a person in the same situation as Tomglod with the same previous experience would for the better relate to LW rather than Maya. Partly because LW is easier to learn, and also because it costs less.
________________________________________________

Please post which program you most frequently use and please be honest. We are trying to help someone, not have a battle with him stuck in the middle.
________________________________________________

Personally, I would not recommend one program over the other. I haven't used Maya so I cant say LW is better. What I will say is that I think LW is a great, inexpensive, easy-to-use program and is well worth the money. I would recommend buying it to anyone who wishes to become a 3d artist.
________________________________________________

thats all i'll say as for opinions :)

cresshead
02-13-2004, 07:47 PM
opinions are like a** holes..everyone has one!

and it doesn't make their a** hole any more valid or better!...

tools.....that's what they are..some prefer snap on other prefer halfords...both get the job done..both have a different costing..

totally pointless excersise here...
for each person they should try the apps out and use the one THEY prefer!

themaxx
02-14-2004, 11:10 PM
The problem with trying each out and seeing which you prefer is that by the time you reach a point where you begin to realize an app's limitations you've already invested a great deal of time (and possibly money) in learning it. At that point do you live with it's limitations or cut your losses and start over with another app?

I guess it's like asking "which is the best car?" Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is right if you happen to agree with them and wrong if you don't. ;)

guardonduty
02-15-2004, 09:23 AM
US Animators need to wake up and realize that their are people in other countries (Russia, India, China, Japan, Westindies, Africa) who are doing nothing but learning Maya, Lightwave, VT, 3D Max, etc, 18 hrs a day. They have no distractions, no taxes, few expenses and housing, food and medical are fairly inexpensive. Learn as much as you can when the opportunity presents itself, or these guys will take your job sooner than when it's expected to happen.

Turner
02-15-2004, 10:19 AM
So?

Got news for ya: if it's really the case that someone is spending 18 hours a day with no responsibilities to take them away from learning how to steal your job, it's not gonna make a difference.

All the waking up in the world isn't going to suddenly erase US animators' mortgages, taxes, or kids.

Learn to be better at what you do or go do something else, but unless you're doing it because you love it, rather than to pay the bills, you've already lost.


Originally posted by guardonduty
US Animators need to wake up and realize that their are people in other countries (Russia, India, China, Japan, Westindies, Africa) who are doing nothing but learning Maya, Lightwave, VT, 3D Max, etc, 18 hrs a day. They have no distractions, no taxes, few expenses and housing, food and medical are fairly inexpensive. Learn as much as you can when the opportunity presents itself, or these guys will take your job sooner than when it's expected to happen.

tburbage
02-29-2004, 12:47 PM
Tom,

One important consideration for you is what 3D package the school you are planning on attending is building its program around. It would be wise to focus your attention on that application because then you would be in sync with the instructors and your student peers in the learning process. I think that learning and networking opportunity overrides all other software biases and decisions.

As a (assuming full-time) student, you will also have a special opportunity to acquire an educational version of an app which would otherwise cost thousands.

Don't get caught up in "which app is best" or "which app is easiest to learn" endless debates at this point. Go with what will enable you to get the most out of your formal learning experience. You can always make your own personal buying decisions later -- and will be in a much better position to make informed choices at that point.

Tom Burbage
Redwood City, CA

Lottmedia
03-03-2004, 08:11 AM
I keep seeing post like this and it concerns me that people keep spending an enormious amount of time comparing products that haven't been released yet (and that's another topic). LW8 is as yet a mythical beast only seen in glimpses by most of us, frankly, I wouldn't feel qualified to speek concisely on any software that I haven't used yet.

PS, I agree, I feel the artist is more important than the tool, gimmie a fine tuned machine or a Timex Sinclair and I'm not gonna complain about the technology, I'm gonna make the best piece of artwork I can and not blame the tech.

Turner
03-03-2004, 08:29 AM
"PS, I agree, I feel the artist is more important than the tool, gimmie a fine tuned machine or a Timex Sinclair and I'm not gonna complain about the technology, I'm gonna make the best piece of artwork I can and not blame the tech."

_______________________________
The phone rings.

Client: "Hi Designer - we just got your comps and have a few questions."

Designer: "Ok, shoot."

Client: "Well, first off, we really like your design, conceptually. But we're having a bit of a hard time deciphering some of the finer points of the rendering."

Designer: "Ok..."

Client: "You know the back part of the site, where the building wall reaches the terrace next to the addition's cafeteria?"

Designer: "Yes, that's one of my favorite parts..."

Client: "Ours too. But we need to be able to see it in the rendering. We can't make out any real detail except for the general outline of the building, and maybe some - what are those things - trees, or something?"

Designer: "Ah, those are columns. Really, the problem is just me. I need to learn how to use this software a bit better."

Client: "What software is that?"

Designer: "Well, I'm using MacPaint - printed on a 9-pin printer, then faxed over to my buddy who takes a digital picture of it and then he modemed it to you."

Client: "Um, shouldn't you be using something like, say, AutoCad, or Lightwave or something?"

Designer: "Nah, software's not really that important. It's me - I just need to get a grip on pushing MacPaint just a little more. But I'm doing the best I can with it."

Client: "Well, ok, but couldn't you maybe illustrate the different parts of the buildings a little more clearly?"

Designer: "Again, my fault. I have eight gray levels to work with, but once I print, they kind of mush together. I'm working on it. Just a matter of craft, really, this software is really not the problem...."

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Apples vs. Oranges

WizCraker
03-03-2004, 11:16 AM
Whats funny is everyone is trying to compare something [Maya 5] that has been release with something else [LW 8] that has not been. You just can't compare because the second contender has not shown up yet.

jimmyboy1
03-04-2004, 12:53 PM
tomglod--

good advice from tburbage about finding out what software your prospective school is using. If you're going to a good school (another argument entirely), they will give you a sound background in the principles of animation, good design, etc., that will carry into whatever software you use. While it would give you a little head start to already be familiar with the software they use, it's not a necessity. Most school programs will have you immersed so quickly your head will be swimming. I had NO 3D app experience beofre I went to school. If you are still applying for schools, don't worry about needing to have 3D work in your portfolio. I found that schools wanted to see fine art work - especially figure drawing. (beware schools that don't require portfolios!)

Andyjaggy
03-05-2004, 08:16 AM
I really wish that the moderator of these forums would delete these app v.s. app threads. They are a waste of time and never come to any substantial conclusion. If you are really curious about which is better download the demos and try it for yourself. I know Lightwave 8 isn't available yet but that means that none of use know which will be better yet.

Turner
03-05-2004, 08:19 AM
If you feel the thread is inappropriate, email the moderators and ask them to delete it.


Originally posted by Andyjaggy
I really wish that the moderator of these forums would delete these app v.s. app threads. They are a waste of time and never come to any substantial conclusion. If you are really curious about which is better download the demos and try it for yourself. I know Lightwave 8 isn't available yet but that means that none of use know which will be better yet.

Lottmedia
03-05-2004, 08:38 AM
Obviously, Turner,I was speaking as an artist, not a corperate gopher. If you have a deadline, of course a faster machine or whatever is better. But too many people get caught up in the tech. They base what they do (ot think they can do) on what the software (or hardware) tells them they can do, and never go beyond that.

pnelson
03-06-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by doug_wilkinson
lw is easer to learn, 1 person can go further faster.

maya is the film champ, used by huge teams. super specialized people.

so what do you want to do? work with large teams and do specific things (textureing, particles) or a little of everythjing.

if specific --> maya
if a little of everyhting --> lw



I disagree.. LightWave is HUGE in the film/TV industry

ALL Emmy nominations for Visual Effects this year were done in LightWave.. (Not Maya!)

I would suggest learning how to be a good artist rather than become an expert tecnician in a single package.. 3D is just another paint brush.. If you are a good artist, designer, etc.. It doesn't matter what software you use.. You will find a job!!

Good luck,

jevinstudios
03-06-2004, 05:52 PM
I prefer to think of it as "LightWave + Maya", instead of "LightWave vs. Maya". Both applications have immense strengths, and both have measurable weaknesses. But, by combining the 2, I've found that they make a beautiful marriage, and create the most powerful 3D toolset anywhere on the planet!!!

To be honest, about 90% of all my studio's modeling is done in LW -- LW has the BEST modeling toolset in the biz, is easy to use, and is just all-around fantastic!

Using Deep Exploration, we export all our models out of LW and into Maya, where the texturing, animation and rendering is done. I actually think maya's native renderer is not as bad as many people think -- and is on a par with LW's renderer. With the addition of mental ray, you have all the power you need to do kick-***** renders for any genre. Plus, Maya's batch renderer and command-line rendering is really fantastic.

So, altho this has been hashed to death, I would really recommend learmning BOTH programs -- the more you know, the more marketable you are in the industry. If you're going to learn this in school, then why not use all the software and equipment they got and take advantage of it to widen your possibilities once you enter the workforce? I mean, you ARE paying for it, after all....

akota
03-06-2004, 07:56 PM
Hi 5 to Jevin!

I whole-heartedly agree!

Both have strong points. Both have weak points. Many of them overlap. Use them both! With Alias's new pricing for Maya, it's not that untouchable. Even I have a seat of each :D

akota
03-06-2004, 08:00 PM
And a quick note. I know this is probably flame bait, since it's a plug for Maya, but if you use PLE and find you like it, don't wait too long to switch to a paid seat. The PLE files aren't compatible with the paid version, so if you create a masterpiece in PLE you'll always have the watermarks on it. You'll have to completely recreate for commercial Maya.

To keep the flamage to a minimum, know that I paid for the upgrade to LW8 as well! In fact, I use LW much more than Maya :D