PDA

View Full Version : 16:9 and 4:3



jeremy092288
01-26-2004, 05:22 PM
I shot a Music video in 16:9 and I have it all edited and it looks good in the toaster's 16:9 Toaster vision but when I run it from the video output into a TV it turns into 4:3. Why is this happening?

Also, when I burn it to DVD using TMPEGENC will it keep it's 16:9? I mean I should at least see the letterboxes if it isn't on a 16:9 TV right?

I am not completely familiar with the different formats, anyone wanna explain?

THANKS!

bbeanan
01-26-2004, 05:54 PM
Unless you add the black bars onto the top and bottom it will fill the screen. 16:9 and 4:3 use the same pixels... so if you play your video onto a 16:9 TV then it will look right... if you play it on a 4:3 TV it will look skinny. This is a common problem when companies do tradeshows and they order a Plasma screen which is 16:9 and they have footage which was made to be 16:9 on a 4:3 set with the black bars on the top and bottom.

Anyway that's my 2 cents

tw video
01-26-2004, 06:24 PM
Dear Jeremy,

I have been shooting quite a few commercials lately using a panasonic ajd-610, it shoots natively in 16:9. I came across the same problem you described. This is how I was able to over come the situation, in TED on my T2.

1) load the clip into ted
2) go to edit properties
3) go to positioning
4)unlock "lock asspect" and "by-pass"
5)click on "high quality"
6)in the size X field value input 720
7)in the size Y field value input 365

presto you have a true 16:9 image viewable on a 4:3 monitor

jeremy092288
01-26-2004, 07:33 PM
So how do I add the bars?

Cropping?

But what are the exact measurements?

Whelkn
01-26-2004, 07:40 PM
or you could use the tool sheds preset to change your video into letter box

jeremy

jeremy092288
01-26-2004, 07:59 PM
If I put it in letterbox mode will the letter boxes show up on a wide screen tv?

THANKS!

Whelkn
01-26-2004, 09:30 PM
When your 16:9 footage should looked streached on a normal tv the tool shed 16:9 to 4:3 changes the aspect ratio of the image and leaving the black bars on the top and bottom. This is better then just overlaying black bars on the top and bottom of your image because you dont lose any of your image. Having said that I have never used a wide screen tv--- :-)

SBowie
01-27-2004, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by bbeanan
Unless you add the black bars onto the top and bottom it will fill the screen. 16:9 and 4:3 use the same pixels... Unless of course it's anamorphic 16:9, which many if not most still are at this point. In that case you *can* work at 16x9 and output full widescreen w/o black bars - the external 16x9 device should 'unsqueeze' the output.

bbeanan
01-27-2004, 10:16 AM
but if you play the same video on a 4:3 monitor it will be squezzed to fit the monitor... vs. if you play it on a 16:9 monitor it will be correct....

Granted I thought with anamorphic it would show up right on both types of monitors, I just never figured out how to do it.

ted
01-27-2004, 01:10 PM
And this my friends is just the beginning of what we'll be facing for the next decade of, "Video Format Transition".
I think if I was 10 years older, I'd just throw in the towel!:(

Paul Peterson
01-28-2004, 06:21 AM
This is all a bit confusing to me too, but a definitive solution information base should be able to be established to give solutions for each senerio. For example, the original poster is starting with 16:9 footage, wants to edit it, and end up showing it on a widescreen.

I, on the other hand, am starting with a standard 4:3 piece in VT edit and what to make sure it will not look streatched out on a plasma screen which has a pixel resolution of 852x480 but an aspect ratio of 16:9. I'm still unsure if I have to make any adjustments for it to work out. Also, I'm curious; do you have to worry any longer about safe areas of the screen when showing you projects on plasma screens or do they show the full overscan area? We have a show in Las Vegas next week and I don't have access to the screen till we get there.

Paul Peterson

SBowie
01-28-2004, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by bbeanan
but if you play the same video on a 4:3 monitor it will be squezzed to fit the monitor... vs. if you play it on a 16:9 monitor it will be correct.... Yes. Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning when you wrote that both use the same pixels - you if a given stream is played, I meant earlier in the process, when one decides to work with either anamorphic or 4:3.

SBowie
01-28-2004, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Paul Peterson
I, on the other hand, am starting with a standard 4:3 piece in VT edit and what to make sure it will not look streatched out on a plasma screen which has a pixel resolution of 852x480 but an aspect ratio of 16:9. Wow - that 852 seems very odd - I wonder why they threw that curve in?

djlithium
01-28-2004, 03:00 PM
Go here www.kyxpyx.net for the 16:9 DVE tools for the VT3 that do a crop and sqeeze for output to NTSC.

Cheers.

rbartlett
02-02-2004, 07:41 AM
14:9 is the other possibility. This is used by DVB broadcasters to try to keep both viewer types happy.

I guess there isn't an ideal. The closest is to shoot in true 16:9 or anamorphic but make sure that the safe area for the programme you are trying to make is within the 4:3 box within. What lives outside is just an extra feature.

That zoom button on the DVD player and aspect ratio preference on the TV just isn't going to be used! Not by my grandparents anyway.

I don't know about how it is in North America. However when a different aspect ratio film/projector plays at my cinema, they move the curtains. Perhaps small curtains and maybe some roller blinds would make TV more palettable? ;)

Blaine Holm
09-08-2005, 07:50 AM
Does anyone know if there are any DVE's that convert from 16:9 to 4:3 and back?

I'd like to be able to capture on the fly.

Brian Peterson
09-08-2005, 10:03 AM
I'm completely confused.

When I put a hollywood mastered wide screen movie in my SD television, the image properly shows up with the letterbox at top and bottom. I take that same disc and play it back on a 16x9 plasma and once again it shows up properly, the letterbox is gone and the image fills the screen...

So what everybody is saying that we can't do that? That we have a choice of having it properly showing on a sd screen with a letterbox or having it projected anamorphically on a 16x9 screen but not both?

Rich Deustachio
09-08-2005, 10:22 AM
DVD Workshop that comes with VT4 has the option to have it view 4:3 on wide screen tvs with different options. As is, with bars on sides, stretched, pan and scan. The only problem with that is you have to let DVDWS do the encoding and it's not the best quality compared to TMPGEnc. Sending it live is another story.

djlithium
09-08-2005, 11:20 AM
Does anyone know if there are any DVE's that convert from 16:9 to 4:3 and back?

I'd like to be able to capture on the fly.

Yes the KYXPYX DVEs were designed to do this and they are actually floating around on the newtek FTP somewhere. They are not completely accurate (might be out by a pixel or two in some places) and they are designed for crushing to 16:9 letter box of material shot 16:9 but not being output from the VT as letterboxed (in other words I made it as a real time conversion tool). The other one is a letterbox crop which just nukes the top and bottom off of a 4:3 picture. Going back however I didn't really think about. :P


If you can't find them on the newtek site, email me. I have them somewhere at home.

Jim_C
09-08-2005, 11:34 AM
Yes the KYXPYX DVEs were designed to do this and they are actually floating around on the newtek FTP somewhere.


ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/

djlithium
09-08-2005, 12:12 PM
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/VideoToaster/Downloads/
thanks for linking those up Jim.

I forgot those had existed for a while. Handy tools though.

vtlipera
09-09-2005, 08:05 AM
If you schoot true 16x9 anamorphic(canon xl2 for example) edit in vt4 in 16x9, then encode it in TMPGEn in 16x9 and use dvdws with the wide screen/4x3 letter box option, save it to your hard drive and then burn it to your dvd you will have true 16x9 on a wide screen tv and automatic letter box on a 4x3 tv.

mikkowilson
09-14-2005, 02:40 PM
It's a little confusing.. here's a little picture on how it works:

http://mikko.n3.net/files/AspectRatioConversions.jpg

The basic rule at the moment is to make it 16:9 but be sure it works on a 4:3 monitor.. why? beacuse most all 16:9 monitors can deal with 4:3 type images, however 4:3 monitors can't deal!
I make Letterboxed footage.. that way it's fine on a 4:3 TV, but a 16:9 monitor will be able ot zoome in the image to show the 16:9 picutrre full screen (thoguh this costs resolution.)

Or if i'm producing for 16:9 release (like DVD.. [DVD players handle the aspect rations properly.. that's why you tell them what shape your TV is.. they knwo when to letterbox]) I always shoot 16:9 but so that it is "4:3" safe.. so that if needed, I can crop the footage down to 4:3 too..

- Mikko