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Kvaalen
01-21-2004, 07:24 AM
How many of you think that LightWave could benefit from a better marketing strategy?
Personally, I find that it could do with some improvement.

There are a few aspects of the marketing system that I'd like to point out, that seem to have some weaknesses. The most important in my opinion is the lack of having a professional feeling. I'll start with the videos that we've been getting more of recently. They look like (and are as far as I know) just a simple recording of what is happening on screen that is then posted on the Internet. Take a look at the videos for Messiah for example and the ones for Cinema 4D have some of the aspect I'd like too. Those are pretty fancy and I'm not saying that the LightWave videos should be like that, but I think they are a good example to show what is missing in the LightWave ones. They seem to be well planned out and edited. The planning in my opinion is really important: say what you want right a way, quickly and explain as much as possible in as little time possible. They have things happening and movement so even if what is being showed isn't very interesting you still won't get bored (and not just having the mouse go around in circles). What would really give the videos a more professional feeling is a little intro/ending.

While we are talking about videos, I think it would be really nice and would show how LightWave really is everywhere (like they claim), if there was a video showing video footage created with or with the help of LightWave. With all of the great things that have been done with LightWave I don't think it should be hard to get a decent amount of video footage. If such a thing would be done or is being done, it is really important that it be very well made. I mean the editing, music, 2d compositing/text effects, chosen content to be shown, style/ideas... have to be top notch so that at the end you'd get the feeling that LightWave really is great and is capable. The gallery is great but not everybody wants to go through all those images, they'd rather just be able to download one video showing the best of the best and all in one time. Also many of the great stuff created with LightWave aren't there and same goes with lots of stuff that isn't 100% LightWave and therefore isn't there (like movies/commercials and stuff).
Some might consider this software taking credit for the artists work. Well it might be in a way but if the artist that counts than that is all good, but the software counts too. With many other 3D software having this it makes LightWave look a little bad.

Back to the LightWave demo videos, I think that though they can benefit in the way I explained above, they could also benefit from showing more options, possibilities, uses explanations, features and things of the sort. The examples could also be a bit more useful. The video with the tire was a good example. Three new features were shown: Soft Body Dynamics, having the motion of a point being applied to a null and a little sneak at the new particles. The uses were also explained and different options were changed to get the wanted result, the settings weren't left at their default and they just say something like "This looks bad because it is simple, everything can be tweaked, this can produce great results, this is useful...", they showed it.
Another problem with some of these videos is the lack of really needing to show the feature in a video (this seems to be mostly the case with the latest videos). I'll take for example the latest one: Subpatchs being taken out of the history. There is no real use for a video. A line in the feature list would have been fine, a post in the forum would pass too since after all you should (like I've been saying) explain the use of things, but a video? This is a great feature and I'm really thankful for it, but I think that the videos could be more informative and show bigger features. Another example of a feature that I don't think deserves a video is the new view modes in modeler. Again, great feature, I'll be using it all the time, but do we really need more than a line of text and a few pics? Since we are now supposed to be getting at least one video per day, I hope we will be getting more and better info.

Ok, enough about videos, lets talk about the site. I know it got redone not too long ago. That is great but there are a few things that I think should be better. First I can't stand the menu at the top and I've heard others say the same thing too. It just doesn't function correctly. We seem to be in a time right now when the best sites seem to be those that are appealing to the eye, but yet simple and look nice and professional. The NewTek site seems to be a little behind. I don't want to really get into the details about why but I think that someone who has much more experience in the graphics design could explain why much better than I could.
The chosen words and the way the sentences are put could be a little better too. Right now it seems like it is just plain simple text without any thought put into making it as professional as possible. A good example for such a site would be the Softimage|XSI site. The words and phrases seem to be well picked out and chosen specifically. You get the impression that their marketing system is really good, like it is run by expirienced people. Don't forget the mistake that happened recently with the link of the feature list being online when it shouldn't have. I don't care if the webmaster was careless or if it was a lack of comprehension, such problems shouldn't occur.

I've heard from some people on the site and I have personnel problems with it too: the customer service by email is really bad. You never really get a satisfying answer, not all your questions are answered and it usually takes a long time to get an answer. This seems to be the case with many big companies. With small companies or personnel companies, I sometimes get answers in less than 3 hours and a good one too. I must admit that NewTek europe has really great customer service. Also I don't really see the point of having the photos of those people on the site.

Something that the marketing team doesn't seem to be good at is keeping promises and date limits. We all know LightWave [8] missed the date limit that was set by NewTek (and how many times were we told by sellers that it should come out in a certain month a while before the end of 2004?). Fine. Things like this happen once in a while and can be forgiven. But the same thing happened with the feature list (if I remember correctly). A classic example of not keeping something said is the logo contest winners. We were told a long long time ago that the animations would be available for download soon. Many times since their have been requests to release them for download but they never were and with all NewTek have to do right now I doubt they'll be out any time soon.


We seem to be in a time where marketing and advertising counts much more than it used to. I think NewTek should do all they can to not fall behind. I get the impression that only the minimum is being done, no more. The people seem to do the work because they need to. I don't get the feeling it is being done with their whole heart. I think things should get changed quickly before it is too late.

All this is in no way supposed to put NewTek or the marketing team down, after all, all I'm saying here is for their own good and I really hope they take this into consideration. I'd appreciate it if someone from the LightWave marketing team would do as much as post a post saying that they read this.

I'd really like to hear your opinions and know what you think. Please stay on topic and don't start talking about LightWave [8] features or anything of the sort.

CB_3D
01-21-2004, 08:06 AM
I agree. Something as good looking as the promotional videos from Maya and XSI is sorely missing on this site.

Ade
01-21-2004, 08:28 AM
Very true..
I also came up with an idea as a lil part of a)advertising b)letting ppl taste LW.

Create a lightwave benchmark app like what cinebench is.

Like that ppl will use it for benchmarking on pro systems, it will have lightwave written all over it and more ppl will get to know the name lightwave..

wiremuse
01-21-2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by CB_3D
I agree. Something as good looking as the promotional videos from Maya and XSI is sorely missing on this site.

Indeed the XSI videos are great fun. Would be nice to see some promotional reels like that for LightWave and VT.

CB_3D
01-21-2004, 09:32 AM
Yes, they do. Partly to the shown material from known ads, movies and shows, but mostly because they are very well designed and put together.

One of the factors responsible for Max´s success was that they began very early with Below The Line marketing, throwing demos and reels around as if they where candy. I remember a time when you couldn´t get a computer mag without Acrobat Reader, AcdSee and a Max-demo on the cd;)

Titus
01-21-2004, 10:32 AM
Every year since my first SIGGRAPH I'm witness of the same advertising fenomenon. Many software vendors show the videos/movies with effects done with their products, for some reasons you can watch the SAME scenes on all these booths. I don't think fuzzy advertising is a good thing, maybe this work for many companies but I don't trust in any of them.

wacom
01-21-2004, 10:57 AM
Well to the people who are experienced in a 3D package eye candy videos do little for them. But your point needs to be addressed because it is essential to gain new users who don't yet own, or are not profiecent in another 3D package.

The gallery has some of the best images I've ever seen on ANY 3D package site- and it should be front page and center- not some small menu option. I've shown my friends, who use other packages, some of the WIP on the discussion board and they've almost soiled their pants.

Half of the videos were good in their day, but now look like...well they just don't look that good.

If newtek complains that they don't have the time for this then they should hold some simple contests and have users submit their own demo reels. There are so many die hard LW fans out there I don't see how they couldn't get at least 5 minutes of quality, hard hitting footage if not hours. Then all they have to do is tag on some titles, spin some house music over it and it'll sell its self. Better yet- why don't they take the LW demo reel footage and hand it over to a VT3 user contest and have the VT3 people edit it!

I'd personally like to see videos where Proton does some of his new LW 8 magic directly showing the interface, but then have that fade to a kick ***** final render of the scene! That would show a lot more than just having either component on its own would. Even the most sexy OpenGL viewport looks sad compaired to a fair render.

OK- last mini statement! Where in the hell are those great videos that were been shown at diffrent events? The ones that have the Dune footage and the head spinning Japanese Anime? Can't they just pop that in the V3 and export it to a web friendly format?

So I'm done for now...but thanks for bringing up this point! Did I mention I agree?

PS- I think the look of the website is OK, but things are kind of "Max" like and burried...

jr_sunshine
01-21-2004, 10:57 AM
I think the NewTek guys are doing just fine. The fact that William and Chuck are highly regarded is proof they have a good thing going.

Could they improve... sure. We all could improve our image. The fact is that LW market's itself. It is a great product which offers incredible value and power.

As for the videos.... leave them alone !!!!!!!

William is providing these to give us an idea of the incredible features. I don't think they need friggen market research to figure out how to present the videos.

The fact that people want [8] more now than ever is proof the videos get the most important thing across.... the message.

Matt
01-21-2004, 10:58 AM
Kvaalen, here's an intro for ya! ;)

LW8_Logo_Anim.mov (12mb) (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/temp/LW8_Logo_Anim.mov)

I know what you mean though - spit and polish, I think NT are just amazingly busy right now and that's the first thing to go.

I think the videos (which I for one are very grateful of) are just meant to keep us lot quiet while they finish LW 8. :)

Matt

wacom
01-21-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Matt
Kvaalen, here's an intro for ya! ;)

LW8_Logo_Anim.mov (12mb) (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/temp/LW8_Logo_Anim.mov)

I know what you mean though - spit and polish, I think NT are just amazingly busy right now and that's the first thing to go.

I think the videos (which I for one are very grateful of) are just meant to keep us lot quiet while they finish LW 8. :)

Matt

That intro makes me feel like I shouldn't be sitting at my computer...but instead meditating on a single mental point, on the top of Everest, to gain enlightenment...

But the meditation would just lead me
back the fact that LW is "...everywhere and is everything...as long as you master the 'saw tools...yes..."

Sorry...must of been one of the substances I experimented with in college talking...

Kvaalen
01-21-2004, 01:32 PM
I'm glad to hear your opinions.

@ Titus: Yes, I know what you mean, for us experienced users it isn't all that impressive but just the fact that there is one and that it is well made/presented shows what LightWave is capable of - just a quick glimps, if you want more go to the gallery. It can also show how it is used in so many different domains, and a well made one is just like a well made demo reel and demo reels might not be all that counts but they are many times important.

It would also be great for gaining new useres (like Wacom stated). It's a form of advertising.

@ Wacom: I agree that the gallery should have a big(gish) link on the front page. That is another thing that could be added to ways to make the site better.

I can imagine all the critique they'd get if they made a contest. If they are too busy, I think they could easily hire someone to do it, or maybe find someone who is a great user but can't really afford the upgrade to [8] for some reason, and make that part of the paying (after all the upgrade doesn't really cost them anything).

The website is the least important part of what I'm trying to say. Even my website isn't great look wise, but I'm not trying to sell anything or gain customers. I just try to give as much as possible to the comunity while having an interface that is appealing to the eye, but yet very simple and 56 kb friendly.

But actually, the only problem I have with the site is the top (the menu and the graphics). Other than that I'll admit it doesn't really need any improvment, but that is the part we see the most.

@ jr_sunshine: I'm glad you posted what you think even though you disagree. I was afraid that those who don't agree wouldn't care and would leave. I understand what you mean about the videos just giving us an idea of the great new features. They are fine for us but I think that anyone who isn't an experienced LightWaver would get a little mislead since they don't look too professionel (unlike other companies). Lately the vidoes have only been showing things that we've had before. I'm really anxious to see the new stuff. They are great and really worth the upgrade, but i want to see more of them.

@ Matt: LOL! Missed my point - but I know it was a joke.
I'm sure NewTek is very busy (or should be in any case) and I think it is fine if they wait till [8] is out before really taking this into consideration. As for the videos just keeping us quite, you can read what I said above.

cgolchert
01-21-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by wacom

OK- last mini statement! Where in the hell are those great videos that were been shown at diffrent events? The ones that have the Dune footage and the head spinning Japanese Anime? Can't they just pop that in the V3 and export it to a web friendly format?

They are in the hands of the copyright owners like Sci-Fi or Fox and they would roast any company for giving them away without permission.

Elmar Moelzer
01-21-2004, 04:12 PM
Exactly, problem with demo- reels is that the animation- studios (who would love to give away their reels to NewTek for a new Demo- reel), must not do so because of the big studios, like Paramount, Fox, SciFi, etc actually wanting big money for that.
AFAIK NewTek got a hell lot of troubles for the (extremely cool and still my favourite) LW6.0- reel.
CU
Elmar

cresshead
01-21-2004, 04:15 PM
i think that newtek are gearing up for a major lightWAVE when they release lw8..they'll have a ton of demo videos to showcase the new features and there's a huge tutorial section in the site along with a stunning stills gallery...

work to be done....

a newtek show reel..we know lightwave has done great things so a downloadable reel would help

also when they ship the discovery version out of lightwave 8 they should pack in a small gallery, a newtek reel and a get you started tutorial video....give new users no option but to be hooked on lightwave...also maybe a video walkthru of a demo scene just going thru the process of getting a full scene together....model, lights camera surfaces..just a breakdown of one scene would really help nail it for new users....

if newtek don't then i'll put one together and see if newtek will host it/want it for free......

later

Kuzey
01-21-2004, 05:16 PM
What they could do is have a demo/seminar a few days before the official release, showcasing the new features, have Lightwave 8 running on mac's and pc's etc. etc.

Advertise the event in the main newpapers, computer mags and mailing list's, use Newtek's partners (Adobe and Apple etc.) to spread the news to their customers.

Have Lw8 available...so people can have the opportunity to buy upgrades / full versions at the venue. There's nothing worse than waiting two weeks for your order to come through.

Something like that :p

Kuzey

wacom
01-21-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer
Exactly, problem with demo- reels is that the animation- studios (who would love to give away their reels to NewTek for a new Demo- reel), must not do so because of the big studios, like Paramount, Fox, SciFi, etc actually wanting big money for that.
AFAIK NewTek got a hell lot of troubles for the (extremely cool and still my favourite) LW6.0- reel.
CU
Elmar

I can't believe it! Yet I know this is true. It seems so stupid that a company wouldn't let another company advertise for them for free! I guess if they can turn a buck somewhere they'll try.

I just don't get it...

I mean the footage I saw at SIG made me want to watch some of those programs...

hmm...

eacide
01-21-2004, 07:41 PM
I agree with Kvaalen on the videos.

The videos were issued to show us the new featuresand to make the wait a bit more comfortable. That is great. I noticed that since these videos have been out and since the feature list has been issued, the bashing period has stopped instantaneously. And that is nice for both the users and NT.

When I first saw these videos, I had the feeling that they were made for the existing group of users and would not be issued as a "demo reel" of LW's new features. They look like if we were in a hotel around proton looking at his killer's laptop screen. I apreciate Proton's gesture. He did cast a handful of videos on December 31 just before partying. Was it done on purpose? I do not care. Proton, when you'll come to Paris, I'll be glad to invite you for a couple of pints :p

Now, they are in the official feature list broadcast outside of the boundary of the existing group of users. I am not certain that these videos will be convincing for hesitating future customers. Not because of their style / colors / text... No, only because they are a bit difficult to understand for non-LW users. They show features which have been implemented for years in competitor's packages.

The thing what NT should focus on are:
==> modelling simplicity. Show a modelling procedure a bit tweaked, using the new tools and the new OpenGL features.
==> animation quickness... Show a complete project where a character is rigged and has with hardbody/softbody/particles/cloth attached.
... and so on...
THe videos should not be too technical... They should only show the features as if they were very intuitive. This can be cheated evidently (within the legal boundaries, of course :p ). That is what I liked from the Siggraph videos. Everything looked sooo simple...

To conclude I will disappoint the eminent samuel kvaalen.... I think that [8] is not revolutionary compared to the competitors (it is an introductory statement). And a lot of people would laugh from the new features. That is the reason why I suggest to focus on "quickness", "intuitiveness" and simplicity....

Rock on Newtek :buttrock:

Hervé
01-21-2004, 11:50 PM
forget Maya @ xsi, really Chuck and Proton are doing just fine.... they are indeed the best..!

Ade
01-22-2004, 12:49 AM
I am willing to do my part for LW advertising -

I am willing to change my name to -


name:Lightwave surname:Modeler

n return I want the next two versions of Lightwave free, and a lightwave Tshirt.

cgolchert
01-22-2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by wacom
I can't believe it! Yet I know this is true. It seems so stupid that a company wouldn't let another company advertise for them for free! I guess if they can turn a buck somewhere they'll try.


That isn't it. Just like Newtek wouldn't be happy if someone plastered the LW logo on porn images. Yeah it is free advertising but is that the kind they would want? You run that risk if you hand over your work to someone else. It is much easier saying we will handle our marketing.

Plus there is the always present issue of copyrights. It is funny how people only REALLY stand up for ownership of content when someone steals their stuff, but expect/demand that someone else hands over theirs.

Exper
01-22-2004, 09:35 AM
Don't forget...
NT is quite small compared to Alias, Avid, Discreet.

They're working good at now and they surely make up for lost time (do you remember the infamous Lux affair?).

Bye.

jeanphi
01-22-2004, 03:09 PM
Marketing...
How NT will do this Marketing?
Are you all ready to DONATE lots of $ to NT to finance marketing projects? :) Then, let's go!

wacom
01-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by cgolchert
That isn't it. Just like Newtek wouldn't be happy if someone plastered the LW logo on porn images. Yeah it is free advertising but is that the kind they would want? You run that risk if you hand over your work to someone else. It is much easier saying we will handle our marketing.

Plus there is the always present issue of copyrights. It is funny how people only REALLY stand up for ownership of content when someone steals their stuff, but expect/demand that someone else hands over theirs.

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
I'm not saying that NewTek™ or anyone else shouldn't have to get permission first before using someone else’s content. That goes without saying...

Plus I don't think my idea was the same as say putting a Nike™ Swoosh© on a dildo or something.

There ARE areas where mutual marketing can work. IE: Here is a clip from movie X done in part with program Y. How does showing that clip detract or hurt the movie? If it didn't help sell things like movies they wouldn't bundle "the making of" as an added feature on DVDs. Is it really sponsorship?

I just think it's cheap for a movie studio to always expect money for letting a small company like Newtek™, with a small user base, use a 4 second clip of a movie. The last time I checked Newtek™ wasn't a household name like McDonalds™ and as such doesn't reach 1/10^10 of the consumer base.

Yes- legal agreements should be made to make sure Newtek™ only has the rights to show that clip in a demo and not use it for things like merchendise etc. and that it isn't used out of context.

Then again I guess the producers wouldn't want their content shown with another studios...but with death of © lawyers and Mega-Mergers we shouldn't have to worry about that in the future.

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
2004 Gideon D. Breazeal

cresshead
01-22-2004, 05:25 PM
i think that newtek are doing a great job in marketing lightwave...the thing that sold lightwave to me was it's output from the renderer..nothing on this planet looks better or more photoreal...and this has been from lw3.0 onwards with babylon 5 thru titannic [5.6] to various star trek based t.v shows over to roughnecks, dan dare, jimmy neutron and lost in space and the core..all top stuff on a stunning app.

the renderer IS marketing at it's best.

it's a done deal...not even mentioning the modeler is amazing and fun to use.

cresshead
01-22-2004, 06:05 PM
whOOOOOOoooooooooooooo.....re userbase

a comment above stated that lightwave only has a small userbase???

that's true if the think that the second largest installed 3d software in the planet is "small"....

there's a list

most installed/bought versions of....[ie userbase]

1.3dsmax [150,000 plus]
2.lightwave [60,000 - 80,000 plus]
3.truspace [50,000
4.maya....was above 12,000 before the pricedrop...
so i'd expect maya to be more like 40,000 to 60,000 nowdays
6.cinema....
5.softimage 3d and xsi....

not exactly a small userbase in comparison to others except 3ds max.

themaxx
01-22-2004, 07:47 PM
forgive me if i'm reiterating something that's already been said, i skimmed most of the posts.

the videos that proton put up weren't done by the marketing team. it's sneek peek stuff, and i for one am grateful to have seen them and think the polish (or lack thereof) is perfectly fine in this context. existing users on this board don't need flashy edits. they (we? i?) want to see what's new and don't need it punched up with marketing fluff.

just my 2 cents.

prospector
01-22-2004, 08:08 PM
not exactly a small userbase in comparison to others except 3ds max.
Wonder what thier numbers would be if noone counted cracked versions running:D

As to marketing..
I think Newtek as a whole are really behind in this area.

Because I get a lot of industry magazines for video and everything that concerns it, I don't think I can remember when it was I saw the last advert for anything newtek, other than a mags reviews.
Being mostly on the film end of Newtek equipment, I constantly see single and 2 page spreads for other video equipment and software, who in my opinion, (beed doing video for 12 years, but still opinions are like a..holes) have nothing on the VT and the software it comes with.
But people coming into the buisness would never know..There are no ads...cept maby a little 1 inch blurt in some store ads.

Everyone I talk to gets an earfull about the VT, but word of mouth can only go so far.

Newtek started the revolution, and still has the best, least expensive equipment and software bundle, but the battlefield is leaving them behind.

Maby Tim is getting tired and wants to retire??

just my .02:confused:


Ok now you can send my free LW9 to me:D :D

WilliamVaughan
01-22-2004, 08:42 PM
The videos that are being created are to show some of the new features in LightWave Eight while NewTek is wrapping up LightWave Eight to deliver to your doorstep. Are they everything we would want them to be? No.


There are plans for final well produced videos when time is available. Keep in mind that these videos are being created either before I go to bed or before I get started for work. They are temporary videos that are being made to keep information flowing to you guys.

If I were to create the videos that youare suggesting, you might get one a week possibly two. Actually I think that's the better route to go.

This is the first feedback that NewTek has recieved that suggests that the videos need to be changed. We are always up for listening to our customers and will deliver what you want as much as it is possible.

------

As far as NewTek's advertising...We have had more Magazines ads in the last 12 months then I have seen come out of NewTek in years. The ad's in Post, Cinefex, Keyframe, CGW, and others are just a few examples.

There are more articles being written about LightWave as well. The User profiles on our site as well as teh NewTek Europe site are at an all time high.

----

Traffic to the NewTek site is also at an all time high and we went from 6 tutorials on the site to well over 100. We've attended more shows in the past year and a half then before as well.

the list goes on. Everyone in the Marketing Department works well over 40 hours a week and do an amazing job!

My day started at 5:00am and it's now 10:00pm and I haven't stopped (except for the hour drive home). And the day isn't over for me yet :)

-----

The Demo Reels that we show at trade shows show the things you want us to show on our site but we don't have the rights to do so. NewTek would want nothing more then to screen all teh amazing LightWave work that is being used in movies like Last Samurai, Good Boy, Matrix 2 and 3, and others....but it's more complicated then you think.

I could go on for hours defending our actions but until you've walked a day in our shoes I don't think it will accomplish much.

Know we are all aiming for the same goal ...we want LightWave to be everything you need to create your vision.

I think the team at NewTek go above the call of duty and "always" deliver!

Have a great night and keep being passionate about your tool of choice....that's what drives us. :)

kurv
01-22-2004, 09:06 PM
I also wanted to chime in and say to have more than 9 books coming out on LightWave 8 says a lot for NewTek as well and thats just from Wordware Publishing!!!

julos
01-22-2004, 09:29 PM
9 books !!! Which ones ? when ?

WilliamVaughan
01-22-2004, 09:35 PM
Lightng book that rocks by Nicholas Boughen (must have)
Surfacing Book by Leigh Vanderbyl
1001 Tips and Tricks - by a team ofkiller artists
Essentials to LightWave by Timothy Albee
LightWave Character Animation by Timothy Albee
Character Modeling bythe master Jonny Gorden
Steve Warner has abook in the works

and a few others that I cant think of off teh top of my head..

julos
01-22-2004, 09:39 PM
Good news :) And probably the classic one from Dan Ablan.

Elmar Moelzer
01-22-2004, 09:47 PM
Hey William!
Dont forget to mention Ghost Warrior by Timothy Albee!
CU
Elmar

WilliamVaughan
01-22-2004, 09:49 PM
Dan Ablan is also creating the Inside LightWave 8 book as well as a tips and tricks book with Randy Sharp....

Inside LightWave has been on the shelves of just about every studio I've been to :)


oh yeah...and Josh Tsiu is working on one as well....

and...the list goes on.

Patrick Beck has one that I believe is being updated to Eight as well as Art Howe.


So to my knowledge there are about 15+ books for LW on the way....that is amazing.

Thanx goes out to all the publishers for their support of LightWave.

WilliamVaughan
01-22-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer
Hey William!
Dont forget to mention Ghost Warrior by Timothy Albee!
CU
Elmar

Doh! how could I ......I feel so ashamed...that book looks like it is going to be amazing.

dablan
01-22-2004, 10:00 PM
So many books! Wow!

Thanks Williamd and crew.

LightWave 8 Killer Tips is complete and will be out soon.

Inside LightWave 8 is another monster, and I'm re-writing it from the ground up - eveyr word. No repeated tutorials from previous books and of course, it's all LW 8. So big that we're bringing in some contributors to help get this sucker out!

lede
01-22-2004, 10:04 PM
Thats great to hear. Now all I need is a small fortune to get all these books :).

Dan, Can't wait for your LW8 book. I have the ones for 6 and 7. I still use them today when I get stuck!

-Lede

dablan
01-22-2004, 10:08 PM
Thanks Lede,

I've listened to users, and the book has a completey new approach than previous. Starting out with very basic / newbie intro. No need to even understand 3D - you'll be rendering after chapter 1!

We ramp up to the more complex stuff, and work through the book the way you would the LightWave program itself - modeling, texturing, animating, rendering, etc. But, over 5 chapters on modeling alone, not including the Modeler overview chapter, as well as Chapter 3, highlighting just the new features in Layout and Modeler. I'm planning on doing another appendix for the plug-ins - a full plug-in list and description.

And, we've got a very cool bonus surprise, which will be revealed in a couple of months :)

Thanks for the support!

dablan
01-22-2004, 10:11 PM
p.s.!

I'm planning on attending SIGGRAPH this year, perhaps demo LW 8 with NewTek a bit, and throw around some free books.
Hope to see everyone there.

Titus
01-22-2004, 11:21 PM
Hey Dan,

I started mastering LW thanks to your books, I don't think they need to be rewritten, but maybe this is the only way to make me buy Inside... more than twice ;).

dablan
01-22-2004, 11:22 PM
Thanks Titus -
there's so much more to learn with version 8, we need a new book!

Hervé
01-22-2004, 11:22 PM
hello, nice thread here.... no flames other than cool one.... one question to Proton.... dunno, but you said (wrote) LW is being used in Samurai, Matrix 2,3..... the good thing .... I'd love to know where in those movies, coz it is impossible to see where as I am sure they used many 3D and 2D apps... so a little info on that would be nice... off course unless no one knows where.... well in this case, it would be like saying, my car is on the parking lot, but I dont know the branch, nor the color..... so that would be like having no car at all in fact... so if someone knows where to look exactly... I'd love to know. I always heard LW is here LW is there, but where exactly.... any clues...?

Notice: this is not a flame, I'd love to know that info, that's it...

Love to all that community !

Hey Dan I also have your 6 and 7 books, can't wait for 8...![COLOR=orangered]

wacom
01-22-2004, 11:45 PM
This is my last post on this thread so please breath a sigh of relief...

I just wanted to make clear that I don't hold NewTek accountable for not having a "flashy" demo reel comprised of the footage from Sig or the like. What I do think is that it's a bummer that there is so much of a legal fiasco going on with things like this footage. I know it's "everywhere" but I want others, who don't fanaticly watch these boards, to know too.

Second- I think the demo videos you've been putting out Proton are great. They are exactly what your target audience wants. I scan this board at least three times a day for a new post from you. The very fact that I know who is make'n these videos and can get a response from them says quite a bit to me. Please keep up the good work!

The "internal" marketing is great. All you have to do is look at the seperate DFX+ dongle on the back of my workstation to see that I was sold on LW 8 early on. I'm glad to hear that the "external" marketing is picking up a little speed too and that money that could have went to development wasn't wasted simply on a huge marketing campaign (aka Alias).

I'm glad that NewTek is in it for the long haul...

JVitale
01-23-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Hervé
hello, nice thread here.... no flames other than cool one.... one question to Proton.... dunno, but you said (wrote) LW is being used in Samurai, Matrix 2,3..... the good thing .... I'd love to know where in those movies, coz it is impossible to see where as I am sure they used many 3D and 2D apps... COLOR=orangered]

I don't know where it was used in The Matrix but I can tell you about Last Samurai...Sorry to spoil it if you guys haven't seen it yet, but then again it just might want to make you see it....

The scene in which the ship is carrying Tom Cruise across the ocean. I believe all of that (Ocean, ship, Tokyo in the distance)was LightWave...the most spectacular of all was the scene in which Tom and Ken Watanabe get a glance at the Japanese regiment for the first time. The "massive" size of the army elicited an "Oh ****!" response from the crowd when I saw it. All of it was LightWave and so where the moving regiments....That's as far as I know...

badllarma
01-23-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by JVitale
The scene in which the ship is carrying Tom Cruise across the ocean. I believe all of that (Ocean, ship, Tokyo in the distance)was LightWave...the most spectacular of all was the scene in which Tom and Ken Watanabe get a glance at the Japanese regiment for the first time. The "massive" size of the army elicited an "Oh ****!" response from the crowd when I saw it. All of it was LightWave and so where the moving regiments....That's as far as I know...

Hi JVitale,
Thats really intresting stuff! Who worked on that project?(re to Lightwave) And also was the army modeled in Lightwave and animated in "massive"(was that a hint?) or all done in lightwave?
Just asking as I may be working on a project soon where creating large groups of animated characters may be involved.

Ref Dan (Inside Lightwave 8)
any release date info yet for the UK?

cheers
andy

Exper
01-23-2004, 03:30 AM
Proton...
a simple but really effective improvement:
update "Project List" and let it be directly acessible from LW's HomePage.

This is a good "plus" for every one which don't use LW!
Let them "Woooaaaahhh!" :D

Bye.

dablan
01-23-2004, 06:20 AM
badllarma,

we should be out in May, and I'd say UK shortly after.
Thanks.

badllarma
01-23-2004, 06:33 AM
cheers for the info Dan :)

WilliamVaughan
01-23-2004, 06:44 AM
Last Samurai had 160 shots with LightWave, Matrix 2-3 had shots by ESC (will have to get details)

kurv
01-23-2004, 07:48 AM
Lets see.... we have
CGI FilmMaking OUT - www.wordware.com/cgifilm
Lighting coming out in about a month,
Texturing and Cartoon Modeling in about 2 months...
Essentiall LightWave in about 2 months,
LightWave Applied update in 3,
Design First in 4 or 5 months
1001 Tips and Tricks in 2 months

more but I am at home and do not have the paper work on me.. :)

Hiraghm
01-23-2004, 10:05 AM
I wonder if Newtek could send a review copy of Lightwave or even a Toaster to The Screensavers on TechTV...

I'm just frustrated. They had a whole week awhile back dedicated to video creation.... no mention of the VT. The other day, they had a segment with someone from a San Francisco area college talking about CGI, and she mentioned Maya, 3DS Max, and even XSI by name... but not one word about Lightwave :(

I really love using Lightwave, but it's discouraging as hell to have it seem like such an also-ran. Reminds me of the old Amiga days.

dablan
01-23-2004, 10:11 AM
Don't EVEN get me started on TechTV ScreenSavers. We've been fighting with them for over a year to do a LightWave segment.

They certainly have had plenty of Maya on, with some guys who you'd think were the walking dead: "uh, yeah, we use Maya... uh, it's like.... uh good for..... uh animation....."

C'MON!

I'm working on scheduling something, as my publisher is also the publisher of the TechTV books.

Hang tight folks! I'll be on there by hook or by crook demoing some cool LightWave 8 stuff.

Kvaalen
01-23-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by proton
There are plans for final well produced videos when time is available. Keep in mind that these videos are being created either before I go to bed or before I get started for work. They are temporary videos that are being made to keep information flowing to you guys.

Thanks for the info Proton. That is really all I wanted to know. I've said it before but it doesn't seem to be clear enough:

For me the current videos are perfectly fine. My concern is for people that aren't familiar with LightWave, I'm afraid they'll get the wrong impression.
I'd prefer you make the videos fancier only after LightWave [8] is out. I just want to make sure it is being considered. And as I said before, it is for the good of LightWave that things should look professional. Take your time. :)

BTW, it's good to have an approxamation of when the different books are comming out. :)

JVitale
01-23-2004, 03:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by badllarma
[B]Hi JVitale,
Thats really intresting stuff! Who worked on that project?(re to Lightwave) And also was the army modeled in Lightwave and animated in "massive"(was that a hint?) or all done in lightwave?
Just asking as I may be working on a project soon where creating large groups of animated characters may be involved.

The "Massive Army" quote was a tongue-in-cheek comment. It was all done in LightWave...The person who worked on these shots lovingly calls the technique "El Cheapo Massive"...We will be covering crowd scenes in a future user group meeting...Flash Film Works and Pixel Magic were among the LW houses that worked on this film as far as I know...

WilliamVaughan
01-23-2004, 03:54 PM
Cheapo Massive in LightWave is done using FX Linker ....There is a tutorial on our site that shows it in use....

js33
01-23-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by dablan
Don't EVEN get me started on TechTV ScreenSavers. We've been fighting with them for over a year to do a LightWave segment.

They certainly have had plenty of Maya on, with some guys who you'd think were the walking dead: "uh, yeah, we use Maya... uh, it's like.... uh good for..... uh animation....."

C'MON!

I'm working on scheduling something, as my publisher is also the publisher of the TechTV books.

Hang tight folks! I'll be on there by hook or by crook demoing some cool LightWave 8 stuff.

Dan,

YOU GO BOY!!!!!!!!

Give 'em hell.

I would much rather see Lightwave on there than all the stupid Photoshop tuts from Alex Lindsey or that moron Bert Monroe.

I do enjoy the Maya ones as well but i've only seen Maya on there maybe 3 times in 3 years.

Also TechTV used to be better. Now they have that stupid robot wars crap and anime crap.

Cheers,
JS

badllarma
01-23-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by JVitale
[QUOTE]Originally posted by badllarma
[B]The "Massive Army" quote was a tongue-in-cheek comment. It was all done in LightWave...The person who worked on these shots lovingly calls the technique "El Cheapo Massive"...We will be covering crowd scenes in a future user group meeting...Flash Film Works and Pixel Magic were among the LW houses that worked on this film as far as I know...

cheers for the great info :)

Kuzey
01-23-2004, 05:17 PM
Mmmmmm....New version of lw and a ton of cool books about to be released...it's going to be one hell of a ride :p :p

Kuzey

dablan
01-24-2004, 12:29 AM
Thanks!

Yeah, TechTV - I hate robot wars! Ugh! How often can they run that?

Lots of good stuff coming for LW 8, that's for sure.

And hey - check out the brand new3DG (http://www.3dgarage.com) site... just uploaded it tonight. Still have links and pages to put in... but you should get the idea.

julos
01-24-2004, 12:40 AM
Nice site, more pro than before !
( but a few pictures won't appear, and a few broken links as well.)

dablan
01-24-2004, 12:43 AM
Thanks.
Working on that still.

Links coming. Images should now be up... more to come...

private
01-24-2004, 06:12 AM
I think Newtek should put a promo video/dvd of Video Toaster in the Lightwave box and take advantage the Lightwave sales to show people what the Toaster is about. I wouldn't know however, as I've filled out the box to receive the Toaster demo video (twice) and never received anything:rolleyes:

I'm no longer in the market for a Toaster, but if the promo video was on a cd, it's not like it's extra weight and increasing the shipping. Every Lightwave user should seen the Toaster in action. Who wouldn't check it out if it was included in the box?

pauland
01-24-2004, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by private
I think Newtek should put a promo video/dvd of Video Toaster in the Lightwave box and take advantage the Lightwave sales to show people what the Toaster is about. I wouldn't know however, as I've filled out the box to receive the Toaster demo video (twice) and never received anything:rolleyes:

I'm no longer in the market for a Toaster, but if the promo video was on a cd, it's not like it's extra weight and increasing the shipping. Every Lightwave user should seen the Toaster in action. Who wouldn't check it out if it was included in the box?

Chuck, this idea is so obvious and so good, you'd wonder why it hasn't already happened.

Given the relationship you guys have with eyeon, when the DFX+ deal finishes you could include a DFX demo in the LW box, if Eyeon did the same for Newtek. Maybe even cross discounts.

Great marketing doesn't come cheaper than that.

Paul

sire
01-24-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by dablan
And hey - check out the brand new3DG (http://www.3dgarage.com) site...
Wow, that's the most stylish and beautifully original site I've seen for ages! Cool! :)

stone
01-25-2004, 03:19 PM
its this kind of stuff we need more off;

http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20040116/index.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040106/athlon64_3400-29.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040105/athlon64-11.html

/stone