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Johnnyx
01-17-2004, 11:33 AM
ummm.. anyone know how to blend between MM animation and the timeline? (most urgent!) - also, any info on the features of MM which don't seem to be documented... like weight mapping and pre/post behaviour?

thanks folks!

J

mjanson
01-17-2004, 03:27 PM
It's been a while but from what I can remember you right click on your motion in MM and use "weight curve"... this allows you to edit the influence of the MM motion in the graph editor... be warned however... some motion modifiers does not read the MM data and the weighted curve correctly... It's as if some modifiers are in the wrong order in "motion stack" (yeah I just made that word up... Maybe it's correct maybe it's not... It's saturday night and I'm on my way out... :p)

Good Luck and Have Fun and hope this helps...

Johnnyx
01-17-2004, 04:53 PM
cheers mukka, in the mean time I have "MM'd" frames from the time line - and used a transition to blend the two together... bit of a ***** really.... it would be soooo cool if you could use the transition tool between MM and the regular time line...

J

Tom Wood
01-17-2004, 04:58 PM
Hey Johhny,

I'm not sure you can do what you want, mix to the timeline. MM seems like it's either on or off. As far as documentation, there was a small addendum to the manual, but it's here too:

http://www.newtek.com/freestuff/lwhelp/index.html

HTH

TW

Johnnyx
01-17-2004, 05:03 PM
ahhh.... indeed, some help here Tom - ta. I think you are right though.... the function I would like doesn't exist... Feature Request for LW8 anyone? - a tad late me thinks.....

mjanson
01-17-2004, 06:47 PM
and still don't... but if what you want is to blend between a MM motion clip and animation present in the timeline... than a weighted curve for a clip is what you want... that turns MM on or off... or gradually off...

Karmacop
01-17-2004, 08:40 PM
Weight curves in MM mix between other MM clips only, not the timeline. So to mix between the timeline and a MM clip just import the timeline as another MM clip.

comanche
01-18-2004, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
Weight curves in MM mix between other MM clips only, not the timeline. So to mix between the timeline and a MM clip just import the timeline as another MM clip.

Don't mix things up. To blend between motions you add a transition via the "add Transition" button.

A "Weight Curve" (green bar at the bottom of a motion) does blend between keyframed animation and motion clips. Example: you create an additional actor for your character's head only. Add a Weight Curve to the actor's motions clip to blend between the motion and the keyframed data of the character's head, without affecting the rest of the character.

jin choung
01-18-2004, 04:54 AM
in maya,

they have something called 'MOTION MORPHING' - that is, you can use keyframes in the main timeline to ALTER the clip of the motion (in maya, the NLA editor is called TRAX).

so if you have a clip where somebody throws a punch and you like the motion of the clip but just want to make the guy punch a bit higher, you can easily adjust it by adding keyframes in the main timeline. (also things like altering a walk so he's bent forward, bent back, nodding, then nodding to the right, left, etc)

if this is what you're looking for, lw does not have it.

i contacted the person who created motion mixer a few years back and asked for it and he agreed it would be a good addition but i haven't heard anything since.

jin

comanche
01-18-2004, 05:09 AM
Right - "a few years back" there were no Weight Curves in Motion Mixer.

jin choung
01-18-2004, 05:56 AM
but that's the thing though,

the weight curves allows you to TRANSITION FROM the motion clip to the timeline.

but MOTION MORPHING allows you to TWEAK THE MOTION CLIP ITSELF.

so if a head is nodding just perfectly but not nodding forward and back far enough, i can add the exaggeration in maya by laying down keyframes on the timeline..

in lw, i would have to RECREATE THE CLIP into the timeline (by baking?) and then modify those keys and then use the curves to blend.

in other words, the timeline can have an ADDITIVE EFFECT on the existing motion clip in maya.

jin

Johnnyx
01-18-2004, 06:59 AM
..nail on the head Jin... the Maya feature you talk about .. or even a layers thing like the feature in Character Studio...

I have spent a good chunk of time with MM since the start of this post, and have got my head around Weight Curves and transitions... Weight curves are cool but simply reduce the effect of the MM anim overall... I would ideally want to "morph" between a chosen frame in the time line and the MM file - making the whole App more versatile... As I mentioned (and has been mentioned by others) you can bring the target frames from the timeline INTO MM, then blend between them... but this seems like a awful duplication of effort.. ummm that's how I am blending just now BTW!

Don't know if anyone at NT is reading this.. but .. is MM being updated for LW8?

J

Karmacop
01-18-2004, 07:31 AM
Sorry, I didn't know the weight curve did that, my bad :(

But yeah, I wish MM worked the opposite way too. Email feature requests if you want, it's the best way to get the message through.

Tom Wood
01-18-2004, 07:57 AM
Huh, learn something new every day. I'll look for the 'green bar' but I missed that about weight curves too. I'm doing a TV show using characters like my avatar, so MM is perfect for repetitive stuff like blinks, frowns, raised eyelids, etc. Drag and drop animation! First show aired last night (local cable access) and it got a few chuckles.

TW

jin choung
01-18-2004, 08:05 AM
from the moment ya mentioned it, i had a feeling that's what you meant.

and yep, since mm allows you to mix CLIPS, i would have probably ended up doing what you are. although perhaps just baking out a section into the timeline (and transitioning in and out of the timeline on a single keyframe) and then directly modifying those curves might be a bit quicker and more transparent a process.

in terms of 8, if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. no mention was made in the released feature list so i bet dollars to doughnuts that it has not been touched.

that's a bad thing about buying someone else's plugin and incorporating it... if they're not already on payroll, you gotta pay them as a contractor for every update that you decide upon - but since they ARE a third party contractor, inertia works against you and it probably won't get into the que.

like i said, it's been a COUPLE OF YEARS NOW!

sure, they could have someone on newtek modify the source code itself but parsing through someone else's code is definitely a ball buster at best.

imo, mm is 'not quite done yet'. but yah, send it in as a feature request... it may get addressed in the future and ya got nothing to lose.


i had to process a CRAPLOAD of mocap data for a job - retargeting motions and getting them to work just right when a mocap clip is brought into its actual context - and i honestly don't know what i would have done if i didn't turn everything into maya trax clips and then keyframed 'on top of it'.

anyhoo, imo, you're doing one of the two things that you can be done so if it's workin', keep gnawin' at it.

my condolences and good luck,

jin

Karmacop
01-18-2004, 09:36 AM
Jin, have you ever emailed your feature requests to [email protected] ? Straight to the point emails make more impact ...

comanche
01-18-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by jin choung
but that's the thing though,

the weight curves allows you to TRANSITION FROM the motion clip to the timeline.

but MOTION MORPHING allows you to TWEAK THE MOTION CLIP ITSELF.

so if a head is nodding just perfectly but not nodding forward and back far enough, i can add the exaggeration in maya by laying down keyframes on the timeline..

in lw, i would have to RECREATE THE CLIP into the timeline (by baking?) and then modify those keys and then use the curves to blend.

in other words, the timeline can have an ADDITIVE EFFECT on the existing motion clip in maya.

jin

Sounds cool and makes sense! Thanks a lot for explaining it.

jeremyhardin
01-18-2004, 01:22 PM
i know commercial workarounds hardly count, but this is a possibility.

http://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO.htm

if you bake your anim to mdd, you can use MDDEdit to grab and keyframe changes to the animation by tweaking the motion clip itself.

Again, it's not perfect, but it's an option.

Johnnyx
01-18-2004, 03:02 PM
thanks for all the comments folks.. feature request is in!

J