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SamuraiSlayer
01-17-2004, 10:58 AM
and i mean the first Lightwave available publicly

robinson
01-17-2004, 11:01 AM
Check out this link :D

http://personal.southern.edu/~dascott/lwhistory/

SamuraiSlayer
01-17-2004, 11:06 AM
hmmm... WOW, didn't know that its basically been around since 1988 on the commodore things

hmmm...

HowardM
01-17-2004, 01:09 PM
shhhhyaaa doood! :) ya know! like! :)

The Amiga rocked, too bad C+ died due to horrible managment!

Did you know THIS program (http://www.asterius.com/atari/) was the predecessor to 3DStudio (MAX)?

ahhh the memories....

ONCE AGAIN ! :) You dang nabbit whippersnappers have no idea how good you have it now with your Pentiums and OpenGL cards.
When I was learning 3D at the age of 15, the best we had was 16 colors, wireframe only, 320x240! I think there was a 200 poly limit also!?
But it was great to learn the basics of 3D!
And of course play M.U.L.E.!!!!!!!
:)

hmm wonder what the predecessor to Alias/Wavefront was?
:)

SamuraiSlayer
01-17-2004, 01:33 PM
these are some really interesting things here, but trust me, i know how easy i have it ;) . i watched a movie from the 70's with a small wifeframe representation of a human on it (yes it was from the 70's) and just imagine flipping switches to make vertices and position them :rolleyes:

HowardM
01-17-2004, 03:35 PM
And for those of you who are just dying to lose hours a day in nostalgic bliss, PLAY THESE! (http://www.virtualapple.com/)

OH my god, Aztec!?!?! Ultima II!?!?!?

Cageman
01-17-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by HowardM

The Amiga rocked, too bad C+ died due to horrible managment!
Yes, that was a shame. It would have been interresting if AmigaOS had been released for x86 in 1990. Maybe it hadnīt been as good as on itīs own hardware, but certanly it would have been better and faster than Windows, which I think is a big bloated OS (a necessary evil, if you ask me). To bad BeOS didnīt make it...

Well, well... times do change and soon LW 8 will be out.. :)

digefxgrp
01-17-2004, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
shhhhyaaa doood! :) ya know! like! :)

The Amiga rocked, too bad C+ died due to horrible managment!

Did you know THIS program (http://www.asterius.com/atari/) was the predecessor to 3DStudio (MAX)?

ahhh the memories....

ONCE AGAIN ! :) You dang nabbit whippersnappers have no idea how good you have it now with your Pentiums and OpenGL cards.
When I was learning 3D at the age of 15, the best we had was 16 colors, wireframe only, 320x240! I think there was a 200 poly limit also!?
But it was great to learn the basics of 3D!
And of course play M.U.L.E.!!!!!!!
:)


hmm wonder what the predecessor to Alias/Wavefront was?
:)

Ahhhhh..... CyberSculpt! That's what I cut my teeth on learning CG.
As far as Alias/WaveFront, back then they were separate companies. I actually used Alias Animator 2 for about a year or so. Funny thing is I had LW 2.0 at home and it did things that Alias couldn't or at least did it easier. I remember (in Alias) having to write scripts just to make lights blink on and off. In LW, that was all envelope controlled. Of course I also remember having to build 300 separate Lens Flare envelopes (in LW 3.0) because it didn't yet have the fade with distance feature. That sucked.

Steve McRae
01-17-2004, 10:06 PM
if you want to see something cool, check out this link to see some "old school" Newtek . . . :)

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.newtek.com

lede
01-17-2004, 11:06 PM
Atomman,

Yeah I remember all those web pages, I used to visit their site and read a lot about their products. Their site defiantly has change a lot over the past few years.

It's funny that Lightwave was originally produce on the Amiga back then all we had was 4096 on screen colors to work with. Then the AGA graphics chip hit the market and changed our life for a few minutes.

Does any one remember the DigiView product?

-Lede

Cageman
01-17-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by lede
It's funny that Lightwave was originally produce on the Amiga back then all we had was 4096 on screen colors to work with. Then the AGA graphics chip hit the market and changed our life for a few minutes.

Hehe...true, but I think most serious users of LW on Amiga used it on GFX-card (PicassoII).

Barred
01-18-2004, 04:28 AM
Along with Digi Paint !!


"What on earth do you want with an A4000 with 4meg of RAM?"

T-Light
01-18-2004, 05:47 AM
Sadly, I never had the chance to play with Lightwave on the Amiga, had to keep content by reading the reviews.

Most often used software in the 80s/early 90's would have been DPaint and Imagine. I loved that software.

Was Digiview the colour video grabber? small black box with a variable resistor knob on the back - If so YES - I had it.

Barred
01-18-2004, 06:06 AM
I started with Imagine. It was teh first 3D app I could get my head around.

T-Light
01-18-2004, 06:25 AM
I remember seeing an early review for imagine 2. It was written by a 3D artist of the time, He'd created what looked like the inside of a church. It had image texture and image bump mapping applied. Couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Mindblowing...
...For back then. :cool:

Up until that point I had been using a 'State of the Art' package called Sculpt 3D. Can't believe I've still got the manual on the shelf.

Ah, It brings back memmories.

tasmanian
01-18-2004, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Barred
..."What on earth do you want with an A4000 with 4meg of RAM?"

Not wanting to turn this into an Amiga tread... I started way back in the Amiga days too, 4 megs of ram doesn't sound like much but it was plenty for an Amiga program to run. BTW, LW used to be a lot cheaper back then too.

Bring back the Amiga ! Or if that's not possible Amiga prices ! ;)

Hiraghm
01-18-2004, 10:49 AM
Uhm...

I think I still have my digiview somewhere.

I mostly used Turbo Silver on the Amiga back in the day (predecessor to Imagine.) Though I used Sculpt some also.

And my number one graphics app was Deluxepaint III; I followed its evolution from DPaint I, and even have DPaint II for the PC somewhere.

As for using Lightwave on Amiga... I currently have LW 3.5 on my A3000 with 5 meg of ram (I think I lost a meg somewhere...) and it runs just fine. I've also got Imagine, the aforementioned Turbosilver, Aegis Videoscape 3D (v2?) and Aegis Modeler 3D. Not that I use them much anymore, except when I get hit by the nostalgia bug.

Maybe someday I'll get an Amiga One and see if it'll run those old programs.

prospector
01-18-2004, 11:57 AM
Oh wouldn't it be nice to go back to floppies??
We could be up to 300 or so by now.

As long as it didn't get that floppy #8 error all the time.


I still use my Amiga Toaster all the time, but it has since been downgraded to just a telepromptor.


GFX-card (PicassoII).
:eek:

Opalvision was THE way to go.

But can the sparkly letters in Personnel Paint 7 be made in any paint program today??????

And where can I get something like Splatterpaint???

HowardM
01-18-2004, 12:45 PM
Ill never forget how amazed I was when I was first learning LW in '92 and I came from the PC side with 16 million colors to the Amiga.
My boss used Digipaint with only 16 colors to make texture maps, that somehow looked incredible when LW pixelblended them.

From then on I learned it was the artist and not the tools!
:)

Aegis
01-18-2004, 01:22 PM
DPaint was good but Brilliance RULED! :D

HowardM
01-18-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Aegis
DPaint was good but Brilliance RULED! :D
No, actually DPaint SUCKED, thats my point, he took a 16 color paint program and made textures look sweet in LW!

Brilliance was great of course!

All this nostalgia! :D I love it!
The apple site is bringing back some gaming memories that are locked away deep! :)
Its so great to remember what it was like to create computer graphics at a PIXEL level. You know what I mean?
Looking at all those game screens that are 320x240 with 16 colors, but somehow they pulled it off and made good ART!
Learning to antialias by hand, or light and dark shading with dithering, etc are good skills to have learned early on.
The art of illusion painting with pixels...

If I were to teach a course in 3D, I think I would make the students learn to paint at a pixel level first, even start with graph paper like we did AGES ago! I think it could really help them understand texture mapping and computer graphics in general!
:)
Do some of you students today have teachers that do that?
Or do kids come out of the wombing knowing this now?

lede
01-18-2004, 02:01 PM
Yeah I still have all my old Amiga stuffed somewhere in storage. Those where the day's I could boot it up in 13 seconds and not have to wait for the OS to catch up with me.

I remember the Picasso card but at the time couldn't afford one, I was still in high school:). Oh well the Amiga is definatly a thing of the past.

Well if the Amiga kept up with technology we would be using floppies that could store 1.88 MB per floppy. We would also still have an operating system that you could boot from floppy that was GUI based (hehe). But hey I haven't touched my Amiga in years and probably would remember how to turn it on....

-Lede

Barred
01-18-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by tasmanian
Not wanting to turn this into an Amiga tread... I started way back in the Amiga days too, 4 megs of ram doesn't sound like much but it was plenty for an Amiga program to run. BTW, LW used to be a lot cheaper back then too.

Bring back the Amiga ! Or if that's not possible Amiga prices ! ;)

That was the question I was asked when I ordered my A4000:)

Cageman
01-18-2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Barred
"What on earth do you want with an A4000 with 4meg of RAM?"

Orginally posted by Barred I started with Imagine. It was teh first 3D app I could get my head around.

Hehe.. :) Those were the days! I got Imagine 4.0 around 96-97 and it wasnīt expensive at all. 10$+p&p. I also expanded my A1200 into a tower and got a 50MHz 68060 with 16MB FastRAM. Imagine got further developed and some support for those PPC-accelerators appeared. I am quite sure that Newtek showed some interrest in the Amiga-PPC platform (they got some PPC-accelerators for thier A4000 machines). But, as you all know, almost everyone that used to use Amigas for Lightwave, moved over to either Mac or PC.

I still use my Amiga everyday, as I just love the way it works, and how the OS and hardware are nicely integrated with each other. Here is the spec of my current Amiga:
A1200T, 128 MB ram, Blizzard 1260/50 w. SCSI-IV (Cyberdrive 24x CDR, Yamaha CRW8824S) PowerFlyerGold (43GB IDE-HD), Punchinello, Mediator PCI 8MB/MMU (Voodoo3, 100MBit Ethernet), ADI MicroScan M700 17" Monitor, AmigaOS 3.9

As you can see, Iīve got working PCI-cards in my Amiga. This IS a hobby, though! Like some ppl are into veteran cars and such, Iīm into retro computing / retro machines rebuilt to "modern" machines. :)

*Iīll probably be regarded as a retard after this post* ;)

SamuraiSlayer
01-18-2004, 06:02 PM
"Plant a seed and it will grow into a tree"

Well I just asked a question and it grew into a seqouia!!!

Here we are, digging up the past, and probably some NewTek workers didn't even know half of this stuff :p


Originally posted by Cageman
*Iīll probably be regarded as a retard after this post*

Don't worry, I dont think you're a retard, I didnt even read your post. :D Sorry, that happens sometimes, I'm in a hurry. :D ;)

Matt
01-19-2004, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Aegis
DPaint was good but Brilliance RULED! :D

That image was done by Jim Sachs if I remember correctly. It seems he likes fish . . . http://www.serenescreen.com/info/author.php

:)

3DBob
01-19-2004, 05:28 AM
Brilliance was the best 2D pixel painter ever - And you can get it to run on a PC with Amiga forever. mmmm

I have been using LW since the Amiga Video toaster (with a NTSC>PAL standards converter). LW3.5 changed my life.

I have a A4000 with 68050 50MHz + PPC604! but like my 4 666MHz DEC ALPHAs, I havn't turned them on in 3 Years - Fantastic machines crippled by dwindling (or collapse in the case of the DECs) software support.

I've never understood why the faster my computers got the slower they booted - I could be using lightwave on my Amiga 20seconds after turn-on! And the multi-tasking still feels more responsive.

Todays phone evolution reminds me of those exciting days of personal computing when every step was relatively HUGE, and not indecernably incremental.

My 2c

Matt
01-19-2004, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by 3DBob
Brilliance was the best 2D pixel painter ever

Brilliance was nice, I quite liked 'Personal Paint' by Cloanto too.

Cageman
01-19-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Matt
Brilliance was nice, I quite liked 'Personal Paint' by Cloanto too.

I did use DPaint at some point on Amiga, but back then I was more into music than anything else (ProTracker). I also had a look on Personal Paint, but again, not my coup of tea. When Newtek decided to leave Amiga, they released TVPaint for free. It requiers a GFX-card to operate, but I most say that itīs a really good 24-bit package. Ohh, and not to forget... Photogenics and ImageFX. :) Damn, Amiga did really make a difference back then. Cool, cool... :)

Matt
01-19-2004, 09:47 AM
ProTracker was my vice back then too! That and AMOS!!!

Unfortunately I've lost all my Amiga data, none of the disks work anymore :(

lede
01-19-2004, 09:54 AM
Cageman,

Nah I don't think your retard. I applode your effort to keep that great computer alive. I also had an A1200 which was just awsom and worked really well. I remember being able to get it to run all kinds of great programs.

I notice you got an 100MBit nic card in it. Thats really cool since I never got my machines to get past sneaker netting my data from machine to machine.

SamuraiSlayer,

Yeah history can really make a difference. Your seed really had strong potential and with its rapid growth you can tell how faithful we are to NewTek. If NewTek didn't move off the Amiga platform we wouldn't have the great software they make today.

-Lede

Tesselator
01-19-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Matt
That image was done by Jim Sachs if I remember correctly. It seems he likes fish . . . http://www.serenescreen.com/info/author.php

:)

Yeah! JD Sachs! Best known for his "Time Machine" images on
the C=64. Created entirely pixel by pixel with only a joystick!!!
Psygnosis | DNA did finially create the TM game (for Amiga) with
his graphics in it but I can't remember if it was ever released or
just everyone lost interest - Amiga having gone bye-bye a few
years or so before it was done. JD practically lived next door to
me Lake Arroehead. California. I wonder what ever happened to
him? Or Dan Silva the original author of Deluxe Paint 1~4 for that
matter.

And DPiant kicked *****!!!! 16 colors my butt! :D

HowardM
01-19-2004, 10:35 AM
JD worked on this too -This is HOT! (http://www.computrainer.com/multimedia/Dzl1183.mpg) ...downloadable maps too! but Im totally OT now!

was it Digipaint or Deluxe Paint, I dunno...one of em in 92' could only do 16 colors on the Amigas we worked on!
:)

Matt
01-19-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Tesselator
Yeah! JD Sachs! I wonder what ever happened to
him?

He's doing screen savers, hence the link!

BTW: All the fish for his screen savers are modelled and UV mapped in LightWave!

art
01-19-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by HowardM

...Learning to antialias by hand, or light and dark shading with dithering, etc are good skills to have learned early on.
The art of illusion painting with pixels...


It's funny that you mention it. I did a lot of manual antialiasing back in amiga days, and I could use my "skill" again not more that a few weeks ago when working on my avatar image for this forum. Yes, the one you see here on the left. Photoshop did not give me results that I liked so I antialiased it manually (outer border only). :)

sire
01-19-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
Looking at all those game screens that are 320x240 with 16 colors, but somehow they pulled it off and made good ART!
16 colors? 8 colors should be enough for everyone:

http://www.51r3.de/images/kaneda9.gif


Learning to antialias by hand, or light and dark shading with dithering, etc are good skills to have learned early on.
I made the pic above in 1991 with DPaint as an extreme exercise for these techniques. Ah yeah, those days... When scanners were luxury and 2400 bps made a fast modem... :)

Matt
01-19-2004, 02:53 PM
There was a nice romanticism back then creating art this way! I miss it a little!

samartin
01-19-2004, 02:59 PM
I think Dpaint III was the turning point for the Amiga, I'm not 100% on this but it was the time EHB was introduced (Extra Half Brite) [email protected] Bright Spelling it introduced too :D, oh and animation came along with that too, that was the BEST !!!

Dpaint IV got all fecked up by introducing Ham mode BAH !!!

sire
01-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Of course HAM was not really introduced by DPaint IV but only implemented as an option, whereas NewTek really kind of introduced a new screen mode with HAM+ for DigiView! This was quite tricky, using the Copper to use new base palettes every few scanlines... I guess they even used interlacing for virtually displaying more than 4096 colors.

However, due to the heavy chipmem access which came along with this trick the computer was slowed down to a degree which basically made it impossible to do anything except displaying the picture... :)

Aegis
01-19-2004, 05:29 PM
Can't find the full images at the moment but here a crop of some pixel art I did in Brilliance for Digital Integration's "Hind" flight simulator (I'm using it as a label for my DVD showreels :D)

lede
01-19-2004, 07:41 PM
Aegis,

Your image is definatly one of those pics that proves that an artist doesn't need fancy tools to make their art. Given the right tool in the proper hands and they will turn out master pieces...

-Lede

Tesselator
01-19-2004, 09:09 PM
I thought Deluxe Paint was the IBM PC package, Prism and
was released for the Amiga during September, 1985. The
Deluxe Paint rewrite of Prism took full advantage of Amiga's
then 4096 color pallet on screen at any one time in the form
of registers that I believe were limited in DPI to 2,4,8,16,32.
So in that sense DPI always had 4096 colors available to it.

8 (or 16?) were the limits in DPaint I for the IBM though.
Hahaha the losers!!! Oops! Oh, wait... They won. How'd
that happen???
:confused:

js33
01-20-2004, 12:06 AM
It only makes you wonder what would have become of the Amiga had it survived?

Oh well at least we had the coolest computer at the time. :D

Cheers,
JS

Matt
01-20-2004, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by js33
It only makes you wonder what would have become of the Amiga had it survived?

Oh well at least we had the coolest computer at the time. :D


I often wonder that, I loved my Amiga back then!

Exper
01-20-2004, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by Matt
Unfortunately I've lost all my Amiga data, none of the disks work anymore :( Mine are on Tape-archives... and my A2000 fried long times ago! :(

Bye.

BeeVee
01-20-2004, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by 3DBob
I've never understood why the faster my computers got the slower they booted - I could be using lightwave on my Amiga 20seconds after turn-on! And the multi-tasking still feels more responsive.


Oh, I've avoided this thread for so long, but I can't help myself! The reason that the Amiga's multitasking still feels fluid today is that they gave the highest priority to the interface, on the very good understanding that it was the human-facing portion of the computer that was most important, what went on behind could be delayed and you'd never noticed. Because of this they gave the highest priority to the interface rather than each individual task and that meant that even if your machine was busy doing something, it still took the time to inform you and you never got blank areas of your screen the way you do all the time with Windows... :(

B (worked at all levels of the Amiga industry for 14 years - sales, purchasing, technical, editor of JAM, AC and AF, beta tester on various products including Directory Opus, OS3.1, 3.5...)

Matt
01-20-2004, 03:02 AM
Hehe! I was wondering how long before you joined us in here Ben! :)

Directory Opus, now there's a great package, although I always prefered the versions before it was re-written, and could replace Workbench.

BeeVee
01-20-2004, 03:15 AM
So did I to start with, Greg and I even joke about the crap review I gave version 5.11 when everyone else was lauding it saying I preferred DM2 (because it was cheaper, could run in a window and more). But after I think it was v5.5 it was incredibly good. Fast, responsive and did so much more than a naked Workbench... :) I use it now on my PC and I wouldn't be without it.

B

stone
01-20-2004, 03:44 AM
dopus for windows is simply a necessarity. i owned all dopus 5.x versions for the amiga though, and it was so much better like the two were born and growing together in unity, where on windows it seems more like a struggle to overcome the lacks and shortcommings.

/stone

BeeVee
01-20-2004, 03:51 AM
Absolutely. You know the funny thing is that the one machine that could really use a file manager is the Mac, and they've never been interested in writing it for that platform... :)

I'm supposed to be a beta tester for DOpus for Windows now, but what with all the LightWave 8 testing I'm doing, I just don't have the time... :)

B

Exper
01-20-2004, 03:58 AM
Sorry I cannot resist:
BeeLuckyVee!
:D

Matt
01-20-2004, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by BeeVee
Absolutely. You know the funny thing is that the one machine that could really use a file manager is the Mac, and they've never been interested in writing it for that platform... :)

Funny, I've always thought that too!

I d/l the trial for the PC, didn't like it, might give it another go.

BeeVee
01-20-2004, 04:07 AM
Do! Do! Like the Amiga version it needs a little personalising, like LightWave, so persevere with it, but after a while you'll hate machines that don't have it installed... :)

http://www.dopus.com

B

DiscreetFX
04-30-2009, 06:54 PM
Yup Amiga was cool and it lives on with Amiga OS 4.1.

http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2008/09/amigaos41-ars.ars


I asked GP Soft to do Opus for Mac OS X ages ago but they said no. I bet it would sell well if ever developed and released.

Mr Rid
04-30-2009, 11:36 PM
Did you know THIS program (http://www.asterius.com/atari/) was the predecessor to 3DStudio (MAX)?

Yes, Autodesk Animator was the first paint program I learned. And it had a few features that Photoshop is still missing, like a-n-i-m-a-t-i-o-n, onion skinning, and a nifty thing called 'Tweening' that was sorta like morphing.


i watched a movie from the 70's with a small wifeframe representation of a human on it (yes it was from the 70's) and just imagine flipping switches to make vertices and position them :rolleyes:

Must have been Futureworld from '76 that had the first CG in a movie of a wireframe face, created by Mr Edwin 'Catmull.'

jburford
05-01-2009, 01:18 AM
Sorry Bill, as much as I loved the Amiga and my Amiga Systems....... it is flippin Dead....... The nail in the Coffin was the purchase of the technologies years ago by a known truck driver who acted like he wanted to save it, however just wanted the name and some technologies to make cell phone games!!!!

How many copies of OS 4.x are now worldwide? 10-20?

(not meant as an attack on you nor the "Amiga".

ivanze
05-01-2009, 01:20 AM
This thread was very dead. :). Jan 20 2004

Cageman
05-01-2009, 01:41 AM
It's alive now. :)

Talking about Amiga, there were many releases at BreakPoint (demoparty) this year.

Results (http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/results.php)

Downloads (http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/download.php?dir=2009/) (note that all C64 and Amiga related releases also have videos)

EDIT: The Amiga-demos I recomend watching are Elude - Lightshaft and Nature/Tractor - JesusChristMotocross

shrox
05-01-2009, 05:28 AM
I didn't notice Zing 3D mentioned. It was the very first 3D program I used.

DiscreetFX
05-01-2009, 03:44 PM
@jburford

Your right Amiga Inc. has been a very weak link in Amigaland. Not sure what kind of business they are trying to run at A Inc. Thank goodness for the hard work of Hyperion and ACube.

http://www.acube-systems.biz/

http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/

Cageman
05-02-2009, 11:29 PM
Awwww... f*ck!

I have a Pegasos 1 computer... why o why couldn't they make an AOS4.1 version for that machine as well?

*sigh*

shrox
05-03-2009, 02:38 AM
I first used Lightwave 4. I had an opportunity to be one of the first Video Toaster users, but I didn't know what it was!

erikals
05-03-2009, 04:32 AM
One thing that annoys the hell out of me is, that till this day... Photoshop still don't have colored brushes.
shoot, that was made back in DeluxePaint III or somethin'.... gosh.

shrox
05-03-2009, 04:38 AM
One thing that annoys the hell out of me is, that till this day... Photoshop still don't have colored brushes.
shoot, that was made back in DeluxePaint III or somethin'.... gosh.

And the new Photoshop dropped the "Variations" tool! I used it allot! Good thing I have a copy of PS before they "improved" it. And now the window slides around wildly when you move the cursor off screen.

prospector
09-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Wasn't there also someone who did an Amiga laptop?
Kinda remember seeing the toaster or something of that sort you could take in the field with ya.

jeric_synergy
09-09-2013, 08:55 PM
Ha! This year I sold my copy of Brilliance, et al.

I'm not sure how one would emulate ANIMBRUSHES and such nowadays-- maybe you'd have to get Dogwaffle.

Some stuff was SO EASY to do back then, and SO DIFFICULT now!