PDA

View Full Version : 678 gig Video Raid



Larry Penland
01-12-2004, 02:51 PM
I am having constant prolems with Win2000K and the Toaster2.
It crashes, locks up, and the mouse pointer goes crazy jumping all over the screen and trying to access various menus, features etc. of the Toaster software, or start other programs. (For quite a while it was working great, after a very rocky start due to overheating of the T2 board by a very close videocard heatsink.)

I think this might be due to the Boot (System) HD having filled up completely (somehow the Toaster videocache files got pointed to C:\ ).

I tried deleteing the cache files, pointing the Toaster back to the RAID ( 5 - 146 gig IBM SCSI 320's striped as one drive . The RAID is connected to the SCSI 320 port on a SuperMIcro Dual Xeon [2 ghz.] motherboard. It uses an Adaptec Chip for Dual Channel SCSI 320.) Then doing a repair install of Win2K SP3. This did not help.

I am thinking I will need to reformat the C: drive and re-install all the OS and Toaster software. But it is taking days to backup the 400+ gigs of projects on the videodrive over the house network to a series of 20 gig tapes on the server.

Everyone here (a small PBS television station in Northern California) is afraid that if we reformat the boot drive without backing up the videodrive, that the video stripe set may not be recognized when we re-install Win2K etc.

Can anyone speak from experience concerning what we will need to do to get the system to recognize the RAID (with our project data intact) after the clean slate reinstall of the OS and T2 software? We really do not want to be down for two weeks while the backup and then restore of the videodrive takes place unless it is really necessary.

Thanks

Larry Penland
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Jim_C
01-12-2004, 02:57 PM
>>Can anyone speak from experience concerning what we will need to do to get the system to recognize the RAID (with our project data intact) after the clean slate reinstall of the OS and T2 software?


You dont need to back up your raid at all if you are installing Toaster on another drive.
Unless the Toaster SW is on your raid (crazy Mr Bowie ;) ) just wipe your system drive clean and reinstall windows and the Toaster.

No need to touch your raid at all. I have done it numerous times with a 2k and an XP machine. If you have any Toaster data like VT edit files or Aura projects or such on your system drive, move them to the raid then back to your system drive in the same place when done.

I bet I have reinstalled OS and/or Toaster at least a dozen times and have never touched the raid. No problems at reinstall.

Using disk management its as easy as Importing foreign disks once the OS is running. You can even unhook the raid from the mobo while reinstalling if real paranoid.


>>Everyone here (a small PBS television station in Northern California) is afraid that if we reformat the boot drive without backing up the videodrive, that the video stripe set may not be recognized when we re-install Win2K etc.

Nope, no problamo.

Ivan
01-12-2004, 03:10 PM
the mouse pointer goes crazy jumping all over the screen and trying to access various menus, features etc. of the Toaster software, or start other programs.

It sounds like you have this machine on the network and you don't have it protected. Maybe you have picked up a virus or someone is accessing it from outside. This behavior is not normal and has nothing to do with VT.

Ivan

Mark Patrick
01-12-2004, 03:13 PM
I go to Sams Club and pick up a 200gig
WD for $150 and back up important files.
Light years faster than tape. You should
even consider an external firewire drive.

I'll bet that the reformat on c drive and the toaster reload will entirely clean up your problems. I recently had incredible lock ups and problems in T3 and after days of troubleshooting reloaded and it is running perfectly.

As the fellow above said, be sure to copy your project files to your raid.

But those 200 gig drives are great for backing up!!!!!!!

Jim_C
01-12-2004, 03:24 PM
and make sure you have Nview Desktop Manager turned OFF if you have an Nvidia graphics card. It can do funny things to menus and such.

Jim Capillo
01-12-2004, 03:45 PM
Do you have DirectX 9.0b installed?

SBowie
01-12-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Jim_C
You dont need to back up your raid at all if you are installing Toaster on another drive. Unless the Toaster SW is on your raid (crazy Mr Bowie ;) ) Heh, I can take it. Still a) it should be child's play to re-import the RAID later, b) even if it did get lost, I still don't see a downside connected to the VT[3] installation.

It never makes sense to save video projects or other media inside the VT[3] folder anyway, and in a worst case scenario (loss of a drive), it takes about 10 minutes tops to do a complete re-installation of the VT3] program disk and patches (if any).

Jim_C
01-12-2004, 04:50 PM
:D



.. No doubt intended. I had just never heard or even thought of sticking the Toaster SW on the raid. So I was sticking ya...
:rolleyes:

Hey but if it works and especially if you say its snappier due to the fact. Rock On! Maybe I'll try it on next reformat/install.

I guess I just like the comfort that any file or folder I look at on the raid is content.
Kinda like not.... well much too hungry to think of a funny metaphor, but it's gotta be like something.

Aegis
01-13-2004, 04:06 AM
I regularly wipe my system partition and reinstall XP/VT[3] - have done it maybe 6 or 7 times now with the RAID being completely unaffected - I've also moved a RAID (along with the Adaptec SCSI card) from one Win2k PC to another XP PC without any problems.

Larry Penland
01-13-2004, 12:27 PM
Thanks, guys. This helps a lot. I was/am unclear about where the drive definition and partition data is stored on the Microsoft OS system (particularly mysterious is how a RAID is defined and stored). On my Amiga all that is plainly spelled out, with the drive, partition and all filesystems stored in the first cylinders of each hard drive along with settings to automount or not.

As to the mouse thing, it did not start until after engineering moved the main box and SX-8 BOB from the edit suite and mounted it in the racks in mastercontrol so that it could all be connected to the video router. This seperates the monitors/keyboard/mouse and a Mackie audio mixer in a quite edit suite but also places all this about 30 or 40 feet from the CPU and BOB. The mouse had to be run thru a Belkin line amplifier in order to work at all.

I agree that it is much faster to backup to a hard drive, but PBS stations are always underfunded and it is very hard (read damn near impossible) to get money for even very basic things. Ideally I would like to have a very fast high capacity tape (or dirt cheap disk) removable backup so that individual projects could be stored in project form so that even years later we could come back and re-edit or excerpt portions of the old program.

We are just using the server backup tapedrive over the network out of necessity and I don't think engineering is real happy about production tying up their system and using so much bandwidth on the station network.

Thanks again for all the help!!!

Larry Penland

:) :)

Jim_C
01-13-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Larry Penland
Thanks, guys. This helps a lot. I was/am unclear about where the drive definition and partition data is stored on the Microsoft OS system (particularly mysterious is how a RAID is defined and stored).

Rt click My Computer, Choose Manage, Dbl Click Storage, Dbl Click Disk Management Local

This will show all your drives.
When you reinstall 2k it will show your stripe set and have some kind of error listed, I forget the exact phrasing.
Rt clickon it and choose reactivate disk. It should reactivate all drives that make up a raid.
Then rt click again and choose 'Import foreign disks' check all the drives that correspond to the raid and OK.
that should do it.

Heres a link to a rather long winded bu tthrough explanantion of Raids
http://www.pcmech.com/show/harddrive/296/

Larry Penland
01-13-2004, 01:50 PM
Mr. Capillo,

Sorry, I forgot to reply earlier to your enquiry about which version of DirectX is installed.

I must say that I don't know. The T2 system has been tied up doing the backup, and I have not gone into work but have been editing another project on my home system. (Win2k and Premier 6.5)

How would I check for the version? I am sure the Chief Engineer would know but he is tied up with getting our digital channel setup correctly, now that it's on the air.

And anyway I'm trying to not annoy him any furthur right now. I am the one that convinced Production to go with a Toaster rather than the Final Cut Pro system that he wanted.

I am going to call in and have the Production Manager get on this forum and read what has been said. That way he can check with the Programming Director and see if they want to cancel the backup and go ahead with the re-install.

Larry Penland

Jim_C
01-13-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Larry Penland
How would I check for the version?
Larry Penland


Start menu -> run, type DXDIAG
Should be first tab under System.


and don't worry you convinced them correctly...
Once you, them and everyone on this forum get the kinks worked out, they'll see.
The Toaster is stable, but can be finicky.


Interesting you got the Bob so far from CPU, many people wonder that. Did you use some type of amplifiers for it also?

Possibly try taking a mouse to the cpu and plug it in w/out the extra length and amp. See if the mouse jitters go away.


good luck...

Jim

Larry Penland
01-13-2004, 05:16 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to be so confusing. The CPU and the BOB are both in the same rack with the BOB directly above the CPU, and they are connected by the Newtek supplied cables.

Video and Audio from any VTR, or other edit system in the station, audio from the sound booth mixer or satellite downlink sources can be sent to the BOB by using the router and a couple of patch panels. Like wise the Toaster audio/video can be routed out to any VTR or even Live on Air.

Video and audio from (and to) a DVCPRO 50 VTR (mounted next to the CPU and controlled from the edit suite by RS-422 from the BOB) are plugged directly into the BOB. We have component into port 1, and composite with a timecode burn-in window goes into a composite input. This way we can record an approval tape with a TC window or we can dub raw footage to VHS for a producer who wants to go home and log or select shots and make a list of footage to ingest into the system.

With the noise of the CPU (12 fans I think) and BOB far from the edit suite we can use that suite as a mini sound booth.

The Mackie mixer in the edit suite is used to send audio from whatever we want to operate in there, such as a DAT deck or microphone, by way of long XLR balanced cables into the second (line level) pair of inputs on the BOB. Line level audio from the BOB output returns to inputs on the Mackie so that it can be sent to a pair of JBL active near field monitors ( amps built in ) and/or a pair of AKG headphones.

It works pretty well, as long as we remember to mute input 2 on the Toaster software audio mixer (at the right time) and avoid feedback while monitoring the audio output from TED or DDR, etc.

As for the mouse, well we could plug directly into the back of the CPU but we'd need to move the keyboard and monitors behind the rack and edit long enough to see if the crazy action appears,

In any case we need to get the OS re-installed etc. before we worry about a little crazy mouse.

Larry Penland

mrceolla
01-14-2004, 06:23 AM
Not sure if you solved this problem or not, but I wanted to bring up the possibility of RAIDs reacting differently depending on how they're stripped.

I have also done a complete re-install of my system drive many times w/o loosing any data on my RAID, but I have a hardware RAID card. I have never stripped w/ the OS and I am not sure if it will behave the same way.

Hopefully someone can confirm.

SBowie
01-14-2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by mrceolla
I have never stripped w/ the OS and I am not sure if it will behave the same way.

Hopefully someone can confirm. Consider it confirmed :)

SBowie
01-14-2004, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Jim_C
:D
.... well much too hungry to think of a funny metaphor, but it's gotta be like something. I hate when that happens... once I was too thirsty to contrive a smart-aleck simile :-p

bradl
01-14-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Larry Penland
It works pretty well, as long as we remember to mute input 2 on the Toaster software audio mixer (at the right time) and avoid feedback while monitoring the audio output from TED or DDR, etc. I was having the same feedback problems so I changed my VT output over to the TAPE input on the Mackie. That avoids feedback (unless you hit TAPE TO MAIN MIX button) and still lets you monitor the VT or the inputs in the room. VT output is DA'd so the main output to VCR's (actually our router) is line out of VT, i.e. no need to worry with setting the Mackie for VT output, like Print To Tape.