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View Full Version : we are suposed to get info today right?



koots
01-09-2004, 10:19 AM
newtek said there would be a post sometime this week about
LW 8 and a release date or something along those lines right?? or at least some more info about it?? I have been checking every day and this is the last day of the week and Nothing:( even if they tell me LW8 won't be out till the summer I just want to know a date:) the wondering part is what is killing me
-jonn
PS this is not a complaint! the guys at newtek kick *ss. keep the the great work :D

badllarma
01-09-2004, 10:38 AM
I think the orginal posting stated there will be a full feature list or further details given by the end of the week, no dates were mentioned though. :rolleyes:

Chuck
01-09-2004, 10:43 AM
We're trying to get an expanded listing of features ready to post as soon as we can. We were hoping to have that ready today, but I'm not sure we'll be able to manage that.

cresshead
01-09-2004, 12:07 PM
if it's being held up by placing images etc i'd just like to read a text file for now so we can digest what we're getting in lightwave 8 and what is not arriving in this upgrade from 7.5 to 8.0 as well.

if you have to, just post a message up with a "hit list" of what's on 8.

..can't be that hard to do can it?

if you need some text here's the alphbet to choose from!

-abcdefghijklmnopqurstuvwxyz-

you may need some of these too

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

look forward to reading it.

CoryC
01-09-2004, 12:11 PM
You could post what you have ready and add "...to be continued". Of course that still wouldn't give you enough time to think of all the ways the partial list might be blown out of proportion and what disasters would exist here by Monday morning.

HowardM
01-09-2004, 12:39 PM
Hey Chuck,

Hows it going?
Honestly, If 8 is almost done, you really should be able to produce a feature list.
If you cant because LW will take a while longer, then just be honest...dont tell us a release date this week and miss it.

I think the community, and the industry would appreciate it.

I know my opinion of late is worthless, but the best thing for NT to do right now is to stop telling anyone any dates for anything.

What you should be doing is telling everyone what IS going on.
Some people think something is going on and we would really just like to know the truth and move on.
So, if 8 isnt really near completion, please just say so.

Allow everyone to stop speculating and ranting on the differenent forums. Of course you and I know our rants are not your responsiblity, but the bottom line is it is happening and I think this is the only solution. Ive calmly kept quiet reading, and not posting this past week, but from all the other people ranting here and at Cgtalk, its obvious that some want to know whats going on.

Hope this post comes across calm, as Im not accusing anyone or anything and am cool.

Thanks!
:)

chewey
01-09-2004, 12:39 PM
rolleyes:

jr_sunshine
01-09-2004, 12:48 PM
Yikes... this is really rolling out of control quick. Not being able to get a list of features tells me the developers are still doing stuff. If that is the case, we are most certainly NOT in beta but in development. Again, I hope I am completely wrong or the "later this year" may not be too off.

:( :( :( :( :( :(

Edit ->>> To be fair, I guess Chuck is waiting to see if the developers have fixed the features which are holding up the release of [8]. If that is the case, I can understand why he feels he cannot release a feature list.

Macet01
01-09-2004, 01:22 PM
During the development cycle there are two categories of functionality that are considered.

1. Must have
2. Nice to have

The development team works their butts off trying to get all the must have and nice to have items into the next version of an application. Now, during testing bugs do arise which would require some rework. Usually, it's the nice to have type items that cause alot of problems.

At some point, they may decide to cut bait on some nice to have items to make sure that the product is released in a somewhat timely manner. This could mean the dropping of some planned nice to have functionality.

Could you all imaging the hell storm that would break-out in these forums should Chuck post a new features list and then have to take some of the functions off due to removing some items which would have been nice to have and don't damage the core functionality of your product.

Chuck, take your time in getting the features list correct. I for one would not like to listen to all the moaning over "changes to the features list" in these forums.

Keep up the good work Newtek, Chuck and Proton!!!!!!

jr_sunshine
01-09-2004, 01:40 PM
Macet01,

First... I too think NewTek, Chuck, and Proton have been incredibly accomodating. They get A+ from me. It doesn't change how confusing the message is on [8].

And, I want to ask YOU... Did you pre-order [8]?

There are a lot of people telling others how to react and have not even shelled out the $495. I'm sorry, but the fact that I DID purchase early expecting no later than Q4 2003 does make a difference to me.

Doug Nicola
01-09-2004, 01:44 PM
Now this is all just fun speculation here, but I think it might be the dope sheet that went from the "nice to have" category for this release, to the "must have," and this might have caused some delay.

If so, I think NT absolutely made the right choice. The dope sheet has to be in LW8, otherwise there is too much potential for people to say "new character tools, but STILL no dope sheet, oh well..." A dope sheet has become a must have for a charater animation app to be taken seriously, I think.

Full disclosure here. I paid for this upgrade (DFX+ deal) back in June, and I was briefly shocked to see "later this year" but I really think NT is doing the right thing to get it as good as possible, PR nightmares regardless. LW8 is going to be fantastic, and I'm willing to wait.

But I would very much like to see two things:

1. A full, complete detailed feature list ASAP.
2. A better UI design. NT has the chance to really get some great attention with LW8, but the current design just doesn't cut it, IMHO.

Chuck
01-09-2004, 02:25 PM
What is happening in development is not the issue - what is on our plates to get done in Marketing is. The decision to go ahead and post a feature list was concurrent with the decision to announce a delay. William was trying to get it done but he was also doing the demo videos and a variety of other tasks. With MacWorld coming up he turned the docs over to me to work on about a week and a half ago. There is a lot of material to sift through to decide what's reasonable to put into the new content on the preview page, and in the meantime, those of you keeping count might have noticed that I was bringing three press releases to completion and publication in that timeframe as well. Not to mention trying to keep up with the forums, mailing lists, newsgroups, private correspondence, some marketing research assignments, etc. William is back and we should be able to work together to get the information you are all wanting to see in presentable form relatively quickly. Please be patient and please do not assume that anything is causing a delay other than the time it takes to produce the content properly.

robinson
01-09-2004, 02:33 PM
Need help chuck ?

Just send me the documents,
no problem. ;)

Doug Nicola
01-09-2004, 02:34 PM
Excellent to hear Chuck! Just having a little fun, and I very much look forward to the feature list.

From my perspective, I greatly appreciate that NT is taking all the time necessary to get LW8 right in every way.

jr_sunshine
01-09-2004, 02:45 PM
Thanks Chuck.

Let me be the first to apologize for going into freak out mode. All the things Chuck mentioned are a lot of work for just a few people. It should be very encouraging to NewTek that everyone is so excited about [8].

Jockomo
01-09-2004, 02:56 PM
If it's worth anything, work on the content later, work on the program now.
We can create our own content. Same with the download. Please seperate the content from the software, I don't wanna be forced to download all that stuff.

Chuck
01-09-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Jockomo
If it's worth anything, work on the content later, work on the program now.
We can create our own content. Same with the download. Please seperate the content from the software, I don't wanna be forced to download all that stuff.

Those of us working on the website update content to let you know more about the features in LW 8 are not programmers - that effort is not detracting from development. Neither is anything to do with developing the content that will ship with LW 8 detracting from development - again, programmers are not doing that work, and in fact much of the new content has been created by the LightWave community, including many visual effects artists, graphic artists and designers.

kml12
01-09-2004, 03:40 PM
Thanks again Chuck for responding to us, the end users.

I hope once the full list is out it will end the mixed feelings some are having about this upgrade :p

Steve McRae
01-09-2004, 03:45 PM
me too

cresshead
01-09-2004, 03:46 PM
when this list finally does arrive i'll be "super fast text scanning" for stuff on automated lipsync abilities and render improvments as well as what we already know that should be in 8 and just confirm the lists...as some may get pulled due to bugs.

let's hope the ik boost is "nailed" into lw8:D :D :D

KillMe
01-09-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
when this list finally does arrive i'll be "super fast text scanning" for stuff on automated lipsync abilities and render improvments as well as what we already know that should be in 8 and just confirm the lists...as some may get pulled due to bugs.

let's hope the ik boost is "nailed" into lw8:D :D :D

if the ik boost was pulled the staff at newtek would be lynched :mad:

NO MERCY ;)

Macet01
01-09-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
Macet01,

First... I too think NewTek, Chuck, and Proton have been incredibly accomodating. They get A+ from me. It doesn't change how confusing the message is on [8].

And, I want to ask YOU... Did you pre-order [8]?

There are a lot of people telling others how to react and have not even shelled out the $495. I'm sorry, but the fact that I DID purchase early expecting no later than Q4 2003 does make a difference to me.

Yes, I did preorder LW8 under the DFX deal. Maybe my outlook is a slight bit different coming from a developer background. Am I a little bit upset with the date change....of course. But, I can feel the pain of the developers and personnel in marketing at the same time.

While I was doing development I worked for two managers. One was a "get it done as soon as possible, but do it right" type, the other was the "ready or not I want it now type". I spent most of my time fixing applications which should not have been released for the "ready or not one" as well as continuing to answer questions like "You said function A would be here but it isn't" for the same manager. Applications developed for the other manager always were perceived as being of a higher quality and in the end a better product.

It's from experience that I speak, not from personal feelings.

pauland
01-09-2004, 05:05 PM
I reckon they're preparing the feature list for l[9], probably would be better if they did, otherwise some people won't be able to sleep... ;-)

Stewpot
01-09-2004, 07:00 PM
You know, it seems that everyone is crawling all over Newteks a**es for what seems a minor delay. (Hey consider how long M$'s delay is over 64bit OS support for AMD!!!).

I think it might be a good idea to declare a moratium, (sp?), on questions about 8 and its inclusions, in order to give the guys at Newtek a chance to reply to the already massive list of questions.

I'm sure most of you will have had a pleasant break and some relaxation over the festivities. It sends Chuck had about a day or so. Cut the guy some slack, you might get some quicker answers.

Oh yea, my money has been pledged to NT since July '03 and like most people I want a bug release. I would also like the expanded features that Chuck mentions in post, so lets give 'em a chance.

cresshead
01-09-2004, 08:04 PM
yeah i'm out of "moan mode" and back to learning lightwave 7.5....putting those training videos to use and learning a different way to model heads rather then rig [with 8] my current characters, i'm making some "friends"...hey my mum always said that i should "make new friends" if i had an opportunity!
so i'm making some toon style heads currently.

leave the staff in peace to do what they do best...create great 3d apps!

hrgiger
01-09-2004, 08:20 PM
I think it will be nice to have Proton back next week... At least then perhaps we'll have some more videos or screenshots or something while we wait.

Beamtracer
01-09-2004, 11:16 PM
You're all just teasing yourselves! Feature lists aren't going to help.

Most of the people wanting "more more more" info about LW8 are those who put their money down already. For you people, you have already made your decision. Knowing what the features are won't make any difference.

For those who haven't put their money down yet, you can see LW8 when it comes out and make an evaluation. The final product will be your feature list.

So trying to find out each week how the features have changed is just teasing yourselves. Relax and the going will be easier.

Jockomo
01-09-2004, 11:48 PM
Sorry Chuck, I took "What is happening in development is not the issue - what is on our plates to get done in Marketing is. " to be meaning the cause of the delay of the release.

But now that I look at it again, and pay attention to the title of the thread, I see your talking about the delay in the release of the feature list.

colkai
01-10-2004, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
William is back and we should be able to work together to get the information you are all wanting to see in presentable form relatively quickly. Please be patient and please do not assume that anything is causing a delay other than the time it takes to produce the content properly.

I sincerely hope you guys aren't doing that "sleeping" thing but are working 24 hrs a day to get this done yes? :p

Hey..you..intern...more coffee for Chuck and Proton - double-quick!! :D

colkai
01-10-2004, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Most of the people wanting "more more more" info about LW8 are those who put their money down already. For you people, you have already made your decision. Knowing what the features are won't make any difference.

No it won't - but hey, when you buy a new toy, doesn't stop you wanting to drool over it.
I think there is a lot of eagerness, I mean, have you ever tried to tell a kid on Xmas eve they have to wait to open their presents? ;)

Colour me like a 12-year old :p

Chuck
01-10-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Jockomo
Sorry Chuck, I took "What is happening in development is not the issue - what is on our plates to get done in Marketing is. " to be meaning the cause of the delay of the release.

But now that I look at it again, and pay attention to the title of the thread, I see your talking about the delay in the release of the feature list.

Yes, just the feature list...

ufo3d
01-12-2004, 10:09 AM
Chuck, can we get the expanded feature list today?
thanks

eggy
01-12-2004, 02:13 PM
feature list :( please

takkun
01-12-2004, 02:18 PM
I don't understand why it is taking a long time to make a feature list. The features should be finalized by now, right? Is it just time consuming to word it properly?

fortress
01-12-2004, 02:24 PM
has anybody else looked at the lw8 perview page
:)

lonestar1
01-12-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by takkun
I don't understand why it is taking a long time to make a feature list. The features should be finalized by now, right? Is it just time consuming to word it properly?

Even if the features are final (something you and I don't know), someone has to translate that list into terms that are understandable to the end user. Internal feature lists include things like "Improved memory load in module lw_foobar6" that are completely meaningless to the outside world.

takkun
01-12-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by fortress
has anybody else looked at the lw8 perview page
:) Dooh!

Check it out.

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/product/8/features.html#CA

koots
01-12-2004, 02:40 PM
did I say how much i Love the people at newtek??
-jonn
I guess we just need a date to look forward to and put on the calender

eggy
01-12-2004, 02:58 PM
AAAAHHHHHHRRRR, I'm using this guy :(more often in the future.

Thanks Newtek the list looks great :eek:

Chazz
01-12-2004, 03:01 PM
Check out the dialog box in the section entitled 'Envelope Contextual Menus.'

Looks like the borders are toned down a little, or maybe that's supposed to indicate that the menu is in the foreground.

eggy
01-12-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by takkun
Dooh!

Check it out.

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/product/8/features.html#CA

where did you find this page ???
The Lightwave 8 preview page wasn't updated ! :confused:

You spy :D

cresshead
01-12-2004, 04:42 PM
err yes it has been updated and how!

looking good!

Xacto
01-12-2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by eggy
where did you find this page ???
The Lightwave 8 preview page wasn't updated ! :confused:

You spy :D

The link does not work.

hrgiger
01-12-2004, 06:45 PM
Man, I came upstairs earlier and saw the page was updated, and now I come upstairs when I have time to look at it and it's no longer there.:(

I really hope there are some updates this week.

CoryC
01-12-2004, 07:02 PM
If you already viewed it, it should still be hanging out in your browser cache.

cresshead
01-12-2004, 07:20 PM
my psoting of my cached list of features is deleted now..sorry!

as chuck on cgtalk said it was for internal review only.....
and is not a complete or upto date list i thought it wold be prudent to pull it so not to cause panic!

cresshead
01-12-2004, 07:21 PM
cont: list of features deleted.

as chuck on cgtalk said it was for internal review only.....

cresshead
01-12-2004, 07:38 PM
this is just for those who missed out....if we're not surposed to see now can a moderator delete the cut n paste stuff or ask me and i'll delete it no problem....until i hear i'm pre surposing it's okay..as many have already read it!


EDIT:

i've deleted the cached pages or the feature list as on cg talk chuck said that the version seen today was an old and out of date feature list for INTERNAL review only....

sorry chaps!

colkai
01-13-2004, 03:37 AM
One word .. Doh! ;)

cresshead
01-13-2004, 06:21 AM
hey at least i got a sneak peek a what's going to be in the feature list!

:cool: :cool: :cool:

T-Light
01-13-2004, 06:40 AM
Typical,

I pop into these forums religiously to see if there's any new info, yesterday, the cat was run over, had to rush him to the vets, got back and went to bed instead of checking.

Luck just isn't what it used to be :(

Matt
01-13-2004, 07:20 AM
Darn, missed it! :(

Those NewTek boys are quick on the draw, but then, they are in Texas after all! :)

cresshead
01-13-2004, 10:14 AM
yeah post first, then think if you should have later!

well from what i have in my internet cache lightwave 8 looks ace and can only think it will look better when a proper authorised list is posted at newtek...

there is some "carry on camping" type things happening at newtek but i'm sure it'll shake out okay with a little time.

they have a lot to do..and that include a beta patch for lightwave 7.5c running on OSX 10.3 which is about to be publically testd as seen on the mac forum so newtek are looking at exsisting issues for lightwave 7.5 and making the new version plus putting a feature guide together whilst trying to second guess what the competition is/maybe upto and to create lw8 that's a leap ahead of them...just think of juggling funnel web spiders...it's a difficult task even without a member of the audience tugging at your shirt tails for information...

anyway i'm trying to make some characters ready for lw8 with lw7 so i have things to do until lw8 drops thru my letterbox!

keep the faith people!

Noclar7
01-13-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Matt
Darn, missed it! :(

Those NewTek boys are quick on the draw, but then, they are in Texas after all! :)

lol,:D

yeah , I missed it too,
could someone paste the list in the forum? since it will probably be released in the next day or so anyways ( with its refinements that is)

RiGLEY
01-13-2004, 10:50 AM
I won't paste the whole list here... i think i would be not fair with NT...


...but it says (for an example) FASTER RENDERING :)

cool...

papou
01-13-2004, 11:02 AM
Aaaaaaaarg.
I miss it too.
anybody have the list in his TEMP?
please mailme mailme