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UnCommonGrafx
01-31-2020, 04:16 PM
Good day,
I am in need of a system and I am in need of your thoughts as to whether NDI can assist me.

I have the opportunity to transform my school video playout into something much more dynamic than our present simple video playout system over 19 apple tvs. This is sent out over 4 banks of mini macs to two different "channels". There is only playback capability and people have to run around to the 19 apple tvs when an update of material is put out. I abhor this system and refuse to use it.

I have and want to use CasparCG for play with Vimesh's simple playout program for CasparCG. By no stretch of the imagination is Vimesh's playout simple: it gives a lively feel to the output when you have immediate and on the spot control over what's on all those tvs! In the past, this system has proven to be dynamic enough to keep students engaged in the programming and content of what goes on the tvs.
In trying to use CasparCG, I am unable to get the assists I need to get a distribution tool up and going; my experience is old so forgive me: the ms streaming media server is what I would have had them re-install on our server. Lacking that, I have tried to multicast with UDP.
Our system doesn't seem to be able to do this at the distances I'm working with. Or is configured wrong. Again, assists are something I plan to assertively seek in the next few months. UDP, without a distribution system, isn't going to work.

Before I invest in bucks for all these apple tvs for ndi tools, does anyone know if this will work without a distribution server? And if not, you got one to suggest? I'll even build a linux box for it, at this juncture, as I believe I am on my on on the Engineering side. Got bucks to buy but need to buy wisely.

Your thoughts since you've read this far?

livepad
02-01-2020, 07:05 AM
Good day,
I am in need of a system and I am in need of your thoughts as to whether NDI can assist me.

I have the opportunity to transform my school video playout into something much more dynamic than our present simple video playout system over 19 apple tvs. This is sent out over 4 banks of mini macs to two different "channels". There is only playback capability and people have to run around to the 19 apple tvs when an update of material is put out. I abhor this system and refuse to use it.

I have and want to use CasparCG for play with Vimesh's simple playout program for CasparCG. By no stretch of the imagination is Vimesh's playout simple: it gives a lively feel to the output when you have immediate and on the spot control over what's on all those tvs! In the past, this system has proven to be dynamic enough to keep students engaged in the programming and content of what goes on the tvs.
In trying to use CasparCG, I am unable to get the assists I need to get a distribution tool up and going; my experience is old so forgive me: the ms streaming media server is what I would have had them re-install on our server. Lacking that, I have tried to multicast with UDP.
Our system doesn't seem to be able to do this at the distances I'm working with. Or is configured wrong. Again, assists are something I plan to assertively seek in the next few months. UDP, without a distribution system, isn't going to work.

Before I invest in bucks for all these apple tvs for ndi tools, does anyone know if this will work without a distribution server? And if not, you got one to suggest? I'll even build a linux box for it, at this juncture, as I believe I am on my on on the Engineering side. Got bucks to buy but need to buy wisely.

Your thoughts since you've read this far?

If you want NDI to play natively on the Apple TVs - that's pretty easy.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ndi-monitor-tv/id1489088858?ls=1
These will all connect to your NDI Sources, and you can remotely control which source each one connects to using remote web interface.
If you need to use NDI multicast - the Apple TV software supports all flavours of NDI, TCP, UDP, mTCP and Multicast for NDI and NDI HX2. It does not support HX1.
You would not necessarily need any sort of central distribution system provided your NDI Source could handle the connection load (or you are using multicast).

UnCommonGrafx
02-02-2020, 03:39 PM
Indeed, that's why i'm in here: to get your thoughts on what all I'm going to need. As well, have any deals for education?
When you say not necessarily, how can I test either scenario with what I have available to me now, i.e., the windows and mac ndi tools. Streaming with CasparCG and an AE3 460.
NDI and multicast... huh? Gotta get educated. HX1, HX2 - again, how can I know which is for me or whether I'm generating something now I won't be able to use after the purchase?
What would necessitate a need for a central distribution system? Trying to serve 300 sources? I want to be able to scale to where people on campus can all view the stream at once.
I'll be in touch.
Robert

SBowie
02-02-2020, 08:20 PM
Robert, it's late and I haven't read this very thoroughly, but for an in-house distribution system, you might want to look at our MDS system (which basically makes you your own 4-channel CDN). There's a cost, of course, but it's a versatile approach that lends itself to scaling.

livepad
02-03-2020, 03:16 AM
Indeed, that's why i'm in here: to get your thoughts on what all I'm going to need. As well, have any deals for education?
When you say not necessarily, how can I test either scenario with what I have available to me now, i.e., the windows and mac ndi tools. Streaming with CasparCG and an AE3 460.
NDI and multicast... huh? Gotta get educated. HX1, HX2 - again, how can I know which is for me or whether I'm generating something now I won't be able to use after the purchase?
What would necessitate a need for a central distribution system? Trying to serve 300 sources? I want to be able to scale to where people on campus can all view the stream at once.
I'll be in touch.
Robert

Hi Robert.

It sounds like you need an experienced systems integrator to help you work through your requirements and propose an appropriate solution. You can find a list of Approved Sienna NDI Systems integrators here: (http://www.sienna-tv.com/newsite/integrators.html) http://www.sienna-tv.com/newsite/integrators.html

Any of these companies will have the answers to all the questions you have posed, and will be able to design an appropriate solution to scale up to your future ambitions.

UnCommonGrafx
02-04-2020, 04:10 PM
Steve,
Indeed, I did look at that. I am unsure of the costs but if it's close to the cost of the 19 ndi devices I am thinking to invest in, it might just be the ticket. (HA! See below.)

Livepad,
I will investigate what the integrators have to offer. I think I mostly need conversation. I have a budget to take care of the rest. lol

What I have on my plate now is obs and a linux server. CasparCG and Tricaster can stream through obs, in several flavors, and out through nginx on the Linux. I am most curious as to whether this will mitigate the need for the ndi software on the apple tvs.
I will read up on the mds as I saw it but didn't have a budget in mind. Ha had one, it wasn't in it! Oh my... That's a few pennies. And bigger britches than we need to fit into. But I will share it as a want, nonetheless.
Great food for thought.

PIZAZZ
02-04-2020, 06:26 PM
Steve,
Indeed, I did look at that. I am unsure of the costs but if it's close to the cost of the 19 ndi devices I am thinking to invest in, it might just be the ticket. (HA! See below.)

Livepad,
I will investigate what the integrators have to offer. I think I mostly need conversation. I have a budget to take care of the rest. lol

What I have on my plate now is obs and a linux server. CasparCG and Tricaster can stream through obs, in several flavors, and out through nginx on the Linux. I am most curious as to whether this will mitigate the need for the ndi software on the apple tvs.
I will read up on the mds as I saw it but didn't have a budget in mind. Ha had one, it wasn't in it! Oh my... That's a few pennies. And bigger britches than we need to fit into. But I will share it as a want, nonetheless.
Great food for thought.

Hey Robert! Been a long time old friend.

Shoot me an email and let's discuss a few options - jef at pizazz dot com

SBowie
02-05-2020, 02:19 PM
Indeed, I did look at that. I am unsure of the costs but if it's close to the cost of the 19 ndi devices I am thinking to invest in, it might just be the ticket. (HA! See below.)Yep, coming from a school system background myself, I get budgets - and feast or famine. One day you might just get lucky. My very first thought when I got MDS running when they were in dev was 'Holy cow, this would be so cool for schools!' And a guy like you with significant tech chops would get more out of the unit than most.

02-05-2020, 02:48 PM
Haha, that made me smile and wonder...
So, I could serve 15000+ with that thing?
That lowers the price considerably, in my mind.

SBowie
02-05-2020, 03:38 PM
15000 direct connections might be a stretch ... maybe if you put 15 of them in front of each of 1000 monitors. :)

UnCommonGrafx
02-05-2020, 06:12 PM
hahaha, nice visual.
Douse that dream.

fgolman
02-05-2020, 07:48 PM
Not to throw cold water on an NDI solution but you might want to check this product line out:

https://www.zeevee.com/products/av-over-rf/

- - - Updated - - -

This is assuming that you have conventional RF cable in place to TVs with regular tuners in them.

It certainly isn't as interactive as an NDI solution, or using anything that would stream to PCs, but if you've got the cable installed, it's extremely simple and robust.

UnCommonGrafx
02-05-2020, 08:16 PM
Thanks fgolman, but this is exactly why I'm looking at all this nonsense: they ripped out the 10 building, thousands of feet I/we pulled and replaced it with ethernet.
I had casparCG running and learned at that time just how cool it was.

Now, I get to wrangle it through someone's server and a bunch of assisting devices.

fgolman
02-05-2020, 08:19 PM
Ah, gotcha.

Nardella
02-11-2020, 12:03 PM
I am not an expert, but you might find value in what I have to say:

I did some research and came up mostly empty when it comes to turnkey solutions or complete guides. However there are several guides on how to set up RTMP servers with multicast (multicast is important). So what you might want to do is set up an RTMP server and then a web server with pages to navigate the different RTMP streams and display them in a browser.
I haven't reviewed the following guides beyond a cursory glance, but they should at the very least give you a jumping off point.
Embedding an RTMP player in a web page:
https://flashphoner.com/embedding-a-player-for-playing-rtmp-stream-from-a-live-encoder-as-webrtc-2/
Multicast RTMP streaming with VLC (you'll want to adapt this to use command line/scripts):
https://peakdrive.com/how-to-use-vlc-media-player-to-stream-multicast-video/

02-12-2020, 07:43 AM
Nardella,
Thanks for the link and participation in the conversation.
The html link is interesting. It may come in use.
VLC is what I have been using on the apple tvs trying to pull a udp multicast sent from CasparCG. Indeed, I am transitioning to a linux rtmp server to get our video to more viewers, reliably and at speed. Seems the commands are similar so I know it won't be a problem to get them to point in the right direction.
I think our IT department can lock down a dns identity for everyone to easily point at such that no one will have to work too hard to find us.