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Tim Parsons
01-04-2020, 08:09 PM
Viktor posted this yesterday on his site.

"I am very sad to announce that the LWCAD 3ds Max version is officially terminated.

Main reason of the termination are very poor sales of the plugin.
Although the 3dsMax has the biggest user community, very small portion actually using purchased license.
Combined with AutoDesk's pricing policy (milking users), there is very little space for a small third-party developers to succeed with commercial plugins.
Next reason is very low stability of 3ds max sdk and plenty of unreasonable compatibility breaks, which makes development of the plugin very time consuming and expensive.

LWCAD plugin development will continue with LightWave 3D and Cinema 4D."


I would urge everyone to support Viktor and his LWCad set of tools. There is so much there for every user no matter what type of models you create.

jwiede
01-04-2020, 08:58 PM
Yeah, I've been really satisfied with both LW & C4D versions of LWCAD!

I'm not entirely surprised to hear that about Max LWCAD, when it comes to arch-viz-type tools there's already a LOT out there for Max (as well as having some similar native tools, albeit not as deep). The situation's a bit different for Cinema4D, where there just aren't as many of those kinds of parametric arch-viz modeling tools available.

erikals
01-04-2020, 09:36 PM
strange, thought the 3DSmax community would run for such a plugin.

seem to me they don't know what they're missing out on.

time for NT to hire Viktor by the way.


https://i.imgur.com/QS5J6ck.gif

Cageman
01-05-2020, 12:13 AM
I am not surprised at all regarding 3DS Max.

Sensei
01-05-2020, 12:25 AM
strange, thought the 3DSmax community would run for such a plugin.

First, they would have to hear about it... Programming is the easiest part of entire process of production. Much harder is to reach clients and persuade them to buy it..
To reach clients you need to spend substantial amount of money on marketing (Google, Facebook, YouTube ads).

Cageman
01-05-2020, 01:26 AM
First, they would have to hear about it... Programming is the easiest part of entire process of production. Much harder is to reach clients and persuade them to buy it..
To reach clients you need to spend substantial amount of money on marketing (Google, Facebook, YouTube ads).

3DSM still contains the most users who still pirate stuff as well (because of the HUGE userbase). The worst thing about Autodesk is that with every release of a new version, SDK has changed and you need to fix stuff, that shouldn't have been touched (and doesn't make sense), in order to release for the new version.

I have plenty of stories about the SDK thing, but I would have to break my NDA in order to tell those stories.

jwiede
01-05-2020, 01:39 AM
strange, thought the 3DSmax community would run for such a plugin.

You're missing the point: Between Max's own native (parametric) AEC extended objects, and similar third-party parametric objects/tools, the Max community already had access to many types of "LWCAD-like functionality" (for quite some time). Cinema4D had a few similar tools as well, but offering nowhere near as broad or as deep capabilities compared to what was already available for Max.

A video showing Max's native AEC objects (from 2010):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PpBsZ4Ul8

LWCAD Max just faced a number of market challenges that weren't present at same level for either C4D or LW LWCAD offerings.

Marander
01-05-2020, 02:42 AM
First, they would have to hear about it... Programming is the easiest part of entire process of production. Much harder is to reach clients and persuade them to buy it..
To reach clients you need to spend substantial amount of money on marketing (Google, Facebook, YouTube ads).

Yes that seems very true to me.

LWCAD for C4D is an awesome plugin (way better then the LW version) but almost unknown to most Cinema users / the community.

There is another suite of ArchViz plugins for C4D which seems more popular and established.

To be honest if I didn't know LWCAD from LightWave I would have maybe never heard of it. There seens to be no marketing. I don't think I even saw postings in any of the Cinema forums.

The (in my opinion) not well chosen name also doesn't help.

The LWCAD web page is poorly done and doesn't help sales. There's no appealing images, screenshots, showcases, customer references, features listed, just links to LightWave LWCAD Youtube videos (which again are not well done). If I would be a user who doesn't know it yet I would lose my interest when visiting that page.

The version is 2018.x in 2019 and early 2020, another poor sales decision.

I know nothing about marketing or sales but these things are obvious to me.

Another reason may be the slow development pace. It took Viktor more then a year to release LWCAD for R20. I know he had to do alot of redesign but most other Cinrma plugins were ready within a short time after the release. Of course it is a lot of work for a single developer to maintain versions for 3 platforms. A lot of work goes into this NURBS and Mesh TR thing which I guess is required specially for LightWave but I personally don't have any use for it (unless it's a fully capable and parametric NURBS toolset).

Markc
01-05-2020, 04:39 AM
3ds max users don’t deserve LWCad......:twak:

Edit: Anyone know how long the ‘last chance to upgrade’ is gonna last?

erikals
01-05-2020, 09:16 AM
A video showing Max's native AEC objects (from 2010):
ah, didn't know, less use for LWcad then, i can see that.


There seems to be no marketing.
from recollection, on a 100Mill Movie, the big guys sometimes use around 50Mill on marketing.

rustythe1
01-05-2020, 09:32 AM
3DSM still contains the most users who still pirate stuff as well (because of the HUGE userbase). The worst thing about Autodesk is that with every release of a new version, SDK has changed and you need to fix stuff, that shouldn't have been touched (and doesn't make sense), in order to release for the new version.

I have plenty of stories about the SDK thing, but I would have to break my NDA in order to tell those stories.

yes, and quite clearly he cautiously worded it to reflect that "Although the 3dsMax has the biggest user community, very small portion actually using PURCHASED LICENSE"
when ever I get certain types of work from "did it on the cheap" to fix, its quite evident it was made in a non legit copy of max.

Markc
01-05-2020, 09:33 AM
3ds max users don’t deserve LWCad......:twak:

Edit: Anyone know how long the ‘last chance to upgrade’ is gonna last?

Got the upgrade to 2018, didn’t want to miss the saving.....:D (especially with a free u/g to 2020)

Thanks Viktor....:thumbsup:

Nicolas Jordan
01-05-2020, 11:56 AM
The main reason I think LWCAD got well established with Lightwave users was the fact that it was packed in with the Lightwave 8 release along with Vue if I remember correctly. I think it was maybe LWCAD version 1.5 or something but it had all the basic CAD tools and snapping to get me completely hooked on it! I have used it and upgraded ever since. I think Viktor may have to try and do something like this again somehow with C4D to grow the user base. People just don't know what they are missing.

With that said if Viktor wanted to create a version for another 3D program I think a version of LWCAD for Modo could do fairly well with the right marketing strategy. Many Modo users already know what LWCAD is anyway so that would help. LWCAD still does many things better than similar Modo native tools. Maybe the Foundry would be willing to pack in LWCAD with Modo for 1 release to give every one a taste just like what was done for Lightwave 8.

As a Lightwave user and LWCAD user I rely on both of these tools and have for many years. I want to see both products continue to be developed and succeed.

If you own LWCAD be sure to upgrade when you can to support the product and if you don't already have it consider getting it to enhance your workflow and toolset.

TheLexx
01-05-2020, 12:02 PM
Is it right that LWCAD has capabilty way beyond architecture ? Like parametric primitives - is that when one is able to do, say, a hundred modelling steps and can edit any single step and it will update to ripple down the chain ?

Nicolas Jordan
01-05-2020, 12:12 PM
Is it right that LWCAD has capabilty way beyond architecture ? Like parametric primitives - is that when one is able to do, say, a hundred modelling steps and can edit any single step and it will update to ripple down the chain ?

I think you can sign up for a trial account to try out it's capabilities for yourself. http://www.lwcad.com/html/login/login.php?next=download!download.php

I personally find it's traditional CAD curve/line tools the most useful. Some of the most basic features it's accurate snapping system and the ability to trim, join and extend lines should not be under estimated. Anything drafted with curves and lines can then be converted to polygon surfaces. Real time interactive booleans are also a favorite of mine. These are the tools I use the most for my work.

Tim Parsons
01-05-2020, 12:17 PM
Another reason may be the slow development pace.
The “slowness” is I think forgivable due to the complete rewrite of his code. Once he gets all the kinks worked out I can imagine that the pace will pick up.

Marander
01-05-2020, 02:57 PM
Is it right that LWCAD has capabilty way beyond architecture ? Like parametric primitives - is that when one is able to do, say, a hundred modelling steps and can edit any single step and it will update to ripple down the chain ?

In LW you get additional tools that are missing like snapping, Rounder, Profile etc. There is no parametric workflow in LWCAD for LW, all operations are destructive.

In LWCAD for C4D object parameters can be modified later and combined with parametric modifiers or generators.

Marander
01-05-2020, 03:09 PM
The “slowness” is I think forgivable due to the complete rewrite of his code. Once he gets all the kinks worked out I can imagine that the pace will pick up.

Yes I think so too. The rewrite of the core tools /primitives / TR stuff was important and well done.

Marander
01-05-2020, 03:16 PM
... Real time interactive booleans are also a favorite of mine. These are the tools I use the most for my work.

If you work with Booleans you should maybe have a look or watch demos of BoxCutter, HardOps, KitOps, Fluent, SpeedFlow and similar tools. For architectural grass Scatter and Graswald.

Markc
01-05-2020, 04:28 PM
Is it right that LWCAD has capabilty way beyond architecture ? Like parametric primitives - is that when one is able to do, say, a hundred modelling steps and can edit any single step and it will update to ripple down the chain ?

If you do Arch Viz, then it is a massive help.
If you don’t it is also a massive help, if you do modelling get it.
I havn’t done AViz for many years, but there are so many tools that really enhance modeller which I use all the time.

Nicolas Jordan
01-05-2020, 05:37 PM
If you work with Booleans you should maybe have a look or watch demos of BoxCutter, HardOps, KitOps, Fluent, SpeedFlow and similar tools. For architectural grass Scatter and Graswald.

I use the LWCAD interactive booleans mainly to cut in windows and cut polygons to the desired shape along an axis.

JohnMarchant
01-05-2020, 06:28 PM
strange, thought the 3DSmax community would run for such a plugin.

seem to me they don't know what they're missing out on.

time for NT to hire Viktor by the way.


https://i.imgur.com/QS5J6ck.gif

Their biggest community is largely based of pirated/non licensed versions of Max, which is what Viktor was alluding to. AD know this and even admit it.

prometheus
01-06-2020, 02:54 PM
I use the LWCAD interactive booleans mainly to cut in windows and cut polygons to the desired shape along an axis.

Lookin forward to theThe day when it comes to parametricly change window size and also change window type, rather than deleting it and add new preset windows.
In blender you can not go in parametricly to change a window either, only parametricly change the holes from the realtime booleans, and the array cloning of it.

As for Max terminated LW cad, no wonder if the issue is what is stated, and LW cad would also wrestle with AD own arch tools, autocad, revit which will be much more prometed as the thing to use than any 3rd party developer tool trying to get in at an early stage..only if the tool is soo much better or provide something unique that simply can not be done with AD tools..only then I could see it gaining reputation and promotion.

This means more focus on Lightwave,or perhaps cinema and modo, and if done right inside of layout and parametrical enhancements, it will probably boost the Reputation of Lightwave and LW cad to yet another level not seen before..but I think this means massive Layout modeling implementation for that to happen, and I have not clue on where the development is at this stage, if any on that area that is?

Communication from either Victor or the LW team that indeed such development is progressing, would in fact gain more interest from current and potentional Lightwave customers.
Had I known about it being under development, I would actually consider purchasing LW cad already to gain maybe a discount when updates comes, but without that proper Layout intergration of parametricly changable elements..it just becomes less interesting and motivation to purchase goes down as well.

jwiede
01-06-2020, 03:32 PM
Lookin forward to theThe day when it comes to parametricly change window size and also change window type, rather than deleting it and add new preset windows.
In blender you can not go in parametricly to change a window either, only parametricly change the holes from the realtime booleans, and the array cloning of it.

What you're seeking is precisely how the LWCAD objects work in C4D (and presumably Max): Until/unless you flatten the object(s) back into polys, objects remain parametric, and you can apply deformers (bend, twist, bevel/fillet/chamfer, etc.) to them keeping them parametric, and go back and alter the original object parameters while everything stays "live". Modo's parametric objects work that way as well, and I agree, Modo would be a "good fit" for LWCAD as well (but market might not be big enough to justify dev work, unlike C4Ds).

jwiede
01-06-2020, 03:37 PM
Practically, if usage of LW is shifting more towards Modeler side than Layout side, then that's all the more reason the devs need to pursue a "fast path" strategy for non-destructive modeling of some sort -- but such modeling obviously also has to support a "modern" level of common infrastructure like guides/inference/snapping, falloffs, and action constraints. Problem is, between all those needs, as well as existing fix/upgrade needs like sub-d's, UV toolset, and others, it's hard to see how all of that can get "quickly fixed". Just fixing any couple of those issues isn't likely adequate to make Modeler again "competitive enough".

Feels like they're facing quite an uphill battle no matter what.

prometheus
01-06-2020, 03:56 PM
What you're seeking is precisely how the LWCAD objects work in C4D (and presumably Max): Until/unless you flatten the object(s) back into polys, objects remain parametric, and you can apply deformers (bend, twist, bevel/fillet/chamfer, etc.) to them keeping them parametric, and go back and alter the original object parameters while everything stays "live". Modo's parametric objects work that way as well, and I agree, Modo would be a "good fit" for LWCAD as well (but market might not be big enough to justify dev work, unlike C4Ds).

Uhmm..yeah, I am not keen on investing in cinema4D though, but its funny..or sad, which ever way you choose to take it, that cool plugins originally designed for Lightwave, such as TurbulenceFD and LW cad, seem to have more funtionality and features working better in Cinema4D than it does in Lightwave..the core, the core:)

Ztreem
01-06-2020, 04:23 PM
Lookin forward to theThe day when it comes to parametricly change window size and also change window type, rather than deleting it and add new preset windows.
In blender you can not go in parametricly to change a window either, only parametricly change the holes from the realtime booleans, and the array cloning of it.


Actually, I think you can do that in blender. You can also use addons like archimesh( included with blender) or archipack to do it even easier with presets.

prometheus
01-06-2020, 04:46 PM
Actually, I think you can do that in blender. You can also use addons like archimesh( included with blender) or archipack to do it even easier with presets.

Not so sure of that, archimesh, donīt have that kind of array tools for windows, and can not be autodrilled booleans in to any of your own mesh created walls,..at least I havenīt gotten that to work with such as ease as you can do in LW cad, well..you have to select both the mesh and the ctrl hole..then activate autoboolean brush, then it is drilled, but in lw cad you just draw the windows on to the mesh..and the hole is autodrilled at once, so a little more steps, archipack may have autodrilled..but
Archipack..never gotten that to work...need to look in to using it properly though.

It may be possible to set up your own drill objects..with array modifier, that also is parented to your own premade windows, the trick is to get it to work with changing depth, width and height on only one window element and all the drilling and arrays should follow.

The difference lays in the workflow..where in lw cad you just specify amount of windows directly in the tool, and it autodrills directly, while with archimesh, you need to add boolean modifiers, and array modifiers, so easier to setup in Lightwave and more window types to choose from ..including building your own, but there it stops, once the tool is dropped, you have to erase them and redo new ones as you want them for any change, while in blender since they are modifiers, you can go in and adjust arrays for instance without having to delete them, but then again, itīs not as easy there either to change window type, adjusting window size and width would be easier than in Lightwave though.

If you now of the workflow of cloning, array the windows with the autodrill hole as well, in a one go parameter so you set amount of windows..with ease..as you can in LIghtwave, let me know, that means, not engaging in tedious setup of modifiers and parenting of holes and windows.

prometheus
01-06-2020, 05:07 PM
Practically, if usage of LW is shifting more towards Modeler side than Layout side, then that's all the more reason the devs need to pursue a "fast path" strategy for non-destructive modeling of some sort -- but such modeling obviously also has to support a "modern" level of common infrastructure like guides/inference/snapping, falloffs, and action constraints. Problem is, between all those needs, as well as existing fix/upgrade needs like sub-d's, UV toolset, and others, it's hard to see how all of that can get "quickly fixed". Just fixing any couple of those issues isn't likely adequate to make Modeler again "competitive enough".

Feels like they're facing quite an uphill battle no matter what.

You know..I think they do have a upphill battle no matter what, it wasnīt solved with the core agenda, and not years after that, then they got this guy doing wonderful stuff with LW cad, and much more advanced in cinema4D it seems, to make this battle less hard to fight I would guess they would need to have that Soldier being in the right army, and and talk to him how he fougth that battle with cinema4D and get the insight on how to rearmour Lightwave to be as capable in the battle. :)

Maybe they can not hire him as full employed developer, but maye enhance the collaboration even more to solve these issues, he should know what the issues are, if it somehow turns out to be a quite impossible task to complete for these upcoming 2-3 years of lightwave development, then Victor should consider even dropping the Lightwave development of LW cad, since I donīt think neither the plugin will be returning any good sales..nor will the future of Lightwave as modeling package go anywhere near where it needs to be, and that is something I would never invest in, so to me itīs a question of having LW cad as good as in any other software..or it has no meaning for me to invest in it in Lightwave.

Ztreem
01-06-2020, 07:45 PM
Not so sure of that, archimesh, donīt have that kind of array tools for windows, and can not be autodrilled booleans in to any of your own mesh created walls,..at least I havenīt gotten that to work with such as ease as you can do in LW cad, well..you have to select both the mesh and the ctrl hole..then activate autoboolean brush, then it is drilled, but in lw cad you just draw the windows on to the mesh..and the hole is autodrilled at once, so a little more steps, archipack may have autodrilled..but
Archipack..never gotten that to work...need to look in to using it properly though.

It may be possible to set up your own drill objects..with array modifier, that also is parented to your own premade windows, the trick is to get it to work with changing depth, width and height on only one window element and all the drilling and arrays should follow.

The difference lays in the workflow..where in lw cad you just specify amount of windows directly in the tool, and it autodrills directly, while with archimesh, you need to add boolean modifiers, and array modifiers, so easier to setup in Lightwave and more window types to choose from ..including building your own, but there it stops, once the tool is dropped, you have to erase them and redo new ones as you want them for any change, while in blender since they are modifiers, you can go in and adjust arrays for instance without having to delete them, but then again, itīs not as easy there either to change window type, adjusting window size and width would be easier than in Lightwave though.

If you now of the workflow of cloning, array the windows with the autodrill hole as well, in a one go parameter so you set amount of windows..with ease..as you can in LIghtwave, let me know, that means, not engaging in tedious setup of modifiers and parenting of holes and windows.


Of course it takes some time to setup the the parametric aspect of a window if you do it by yourself without an addon, no question. What I'm saying, is that it's possible to setup a parametric window without any addon if you want to, you said it could not be done. That's all.

In Lw this is impossible to do right now, without any plugin.

Here's a proof of concept...
146562

Ryan Roye
01-06-2020, 09:01 PM
In Lw this is impossible to do right now, without any plugin.

And not just any plugin, it has to be a C++ plugin, because you can't provide real interactive feedback using python or lscript in Modeler.

Even with that said, I've never felt that I needed more than what LWCad offers... Themespace (a archviz company I do a lot of work for) often demands that my models are built to high accuracy specifications, and LWcad delivers that accuracy and control to my designs.

prometheus
01-06-2020, 09:16 PM
Of course it takes some time to setup the the parametric aspect of a window if you do it by yourself without an addon, no question. What I'm saying, is that it's possible to setup a parametric window without any addon if you want to, you said it could not be done. That's all.

In Lw this is impossible to do right now, without any plugin.

Here's a proof of concept...
146562

Great showcase there, and since I believe you built it based on modifiers only and not using the addons, and customized your own parameters, you are able to go in there at any time later after working on other parts of the model and then go back and change window amount ..right?

prometheus
01-06-2020, 09:22 PM
And not just any plugin, it has to be a C++ plugin, because you can't provide real interactive feedback using python or lscript in Modeler.

Even with that said, I've never felt that I needed more than what LWCad offers... Themespace (a archviz company I do a lot of work for) often demands that my models are built to high accuracy specifications, and LWcad delivers that accuracy and control to my designs.

The situation may arrive when someone looks at a concept art building you provided..and wantīs to change window types or dimensions..maybe depending on something else in the scene requiring such change.
I suspect archviz companies may have their demands layed out more distinctively in the beginning, thus maybe not the need for such changes afterward.
For me itīs just a matter of personal freedom and flexibility in the worklow in a software that would further simply enhance that very freedoom to change it as you see fit, without deleting and redoing elements from scratch again.

That said, lw cad seem to have evolved, and with presets you can make a lot of variants so the deletion and redoing of a new wall of new types of windows may not be so much of an issue, unless it becomes a matter of a small change of existing windows, to adjust dimenstion or rounding..and you simply can not have that many presets covering all the options of change.

Nicolas Jordan
01-06-2020, 09:35 PM
Of course it takes some time to setup the the parametric aspect of a window if you do it by yourself without an addon, no question. What I'm saying, is that it's possible to setup a parametric window without any addon if you want to, you said it could not be done. That's all.

In Lw this is impossible to do right now, without any plugin.

Here's a proof of concept...
146562

That kind of parametric or procedural workflow is cool and probably comes in very useful for certain kinds of projects where you can anticipate what elements will likely need to be changed. The extra time to set it up plus overhead required in large scenes full of these parametric modeled objects means that for me in most arch viz projects parametric tools are overkill and just not worthwhile for my work. I can see where these kind of tools could be useful in some situations.

Nicolas Jordan
01-06-2020, 09:42 PM
And not just any plugin, it has to be a C++ plugin, because you can't provide real interactive feedback using python or lscript in Modeler.

Even with that said, I've never felt that I needed more than what LWCad offers... Themespace (a archviz company I do a lot of work for) often demands that my models are built to high accuracy specifications, and LWcad delivers that accuracy and control to my designs.

Yes I totally agree that LWCAD tools give the accuracy needed for Arch Viz or any other modeling that needs to be super accurate.

I used to work at a Arch Viz studio where we modeled using AutoCAD for many years with custom in house scripts. I had to use and learn their workflow so anyone could update or work on any one project if needed. It was very painful and time consuming compared to the ease of use with LWCAD and Lightwave.

Marander
01-07-2020, 01:16 AM
Yes I totally agree that LWCAD tools give the accuracy needed for Arch Viz or any other modeling that needs to be super accurate.


I'm interested what makes LWCAD more accurate then other 3D software. Or you mean compared to standard LW?

Other 3D applications have built-in snapping, work planes, quantizing, guidelines, measure and align tools. These are integrated into the application core and work with all other tools unlike LWCAD in LW.

Why is LWCAD more accurate?

Ztreem
01-07-2020, 05:35 AM
Great showcase there, and since I believe you built it based on modifiers only and not using the addons, and customized your own parameters, you are able to go in there at any time later after working on other parts of the model and then go back and change window amount ..right?

Yes, you can change everything all the time.

Ztreem
01-07-2020, 05:42 AM
That kind of parametric or procedural workflow is cool and probably comes in very useful for certain kinds of projects where you can anticipate what elements will likely need to be changed. The extra time to set it up plus overhead required in large scenes full of these parametric modeled objects means that for me in most arch viz projects parametric tools are overkill and just not worthwhile for my work. I can see where these kind of tools could be useful in some situations.

Yes, that is always an issue you have to consider in every project, do you anticipate a lot of changes later on or not and does the parametric part save more time than it takes to setup. I just love to have the ability to choose how to work.

Ztreem
01-07-2020, 06:02 AM
I'm interested what makes LWCAD more accurate then other 3D software. Or you mean compared to standard LW?

Other 3D applications have built-in snapping, work planes, quantizing, guidelines, measure and align tools. These are integrated into the application core and work with all other tools unlike LWCAD in LW.

Why is LWCAD more accurate?

+1 :)

lardbros
01-07-2020, 07:03 AM
I'm interested what makes LWCAD more accurate then other 3D software. Or you mean compared to standard LW?

Other 3D applications have built-in snapping, work planes, quantizing, guidelines, measure and align tools. These are integrated into the application core and work with all other tools unlike LWCAD in LW.

Why is LWCAD more accurate?

LW CAD is more accurate than modelling in 3ds Max (the only example for me, because I use it at work)... in 3dsmax, I can draw splines/curves out, and get a reading on the length, type it in and get it exact... but, when it comes to doing updates, moving points around, it becomes a huge mess. You can't easily and quickly, grab a load of points and then move them 10mm down on the X axis without opening up the translate panel. Typing in the amount and then rinse and repeat. LWCAD with LW makes it really easy to make accurate adjustments to your splines/meshes. Much easier than in 3ds Max, in my opinion.

3dsmax makes it more of a fight to be accurate at all times with distances and things. Constantly having to grab the measure tool, setting snap locations and double-checking measurements.

Nicolas Jordan
01-07-2020, 09:45 AM
LW CAD is more accurate than modelling in 3ds Max (the only example for me, because I use it at work)... in 3dsmax, I can draw splines/curves out, and get a reading on the length, type it in and get it exact... but, when it comes to doing updates, moving points around, it becomes a huge mess. You can't easily and quickly, grab a load of points and then move them 10mm down on the X axis without opening up the translate panel. Typing in the amount and then rinse and repeat. LWCAD with LW makes it really easy to make accurate adjustments to your splines/meshes. Much easier than in 3ds Max, in my opinion.

3dsmax makes it more of a fight to be accurate at all times with distances and things. Constantly having to grab the measure tool, setting snap locations and double-checking measurements.

I've watched videos of guys who are supposed to be experienced modeling architecture in 3DS Max and it looked so incredibly slow and painful compared to modeling in Lightwave with LWCAD. This always makes me wonder why people put up with using 3DS Max to begin with for this kind of work.

Tim Parsons
01-07-2020, 10:32 AM
This always makes me wonder why people put up with using 3DS Max to begin with for this kind of work.

Because that's all they know about.

Marander
01-07-2020, 11:57 AM
Sounds tedious working with 3DSMax, I have never used it due to its UI and licensing.

Nevertheless it seems to be powerful and popular.

Efficiency depends alot on how it's used (shortcuts vs mouse, preparing useful guidelines for snapping, different workflows etc). But it doesn't make it less accurate.

Markc
01-07-2020, 12:23 PM
I've watched videos of guys who are supposed to be experienced modeling architecture in 3DS Max and it looked so incredibly slow and painful compared to modeling in Lightwave with LWCAD. This always makes me wonder why people put up with using 3DS Max to begin with for this kind of work.

These days it’s much easier to build in Revit and then surface/render in 3dsMax (if that’s your flavour).

prometheus
01-07-2020, 02:55 PM
These days it’s much easier to build in Revit and then surface/render in 3dsMax (if that’s your flavour).

I suspect the whole deal of working with BIM information, getting real data from manufacturers of windows, beams, doors..at your hand while doing the construction of a house matters a lot, with lwcad..you have none of these things as I understand it.
And as mentioned, go in there and pick another constructor, material from what is out there in the real world..is a different matter than grabbing presets from your own library without any connection to the real construction market?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Dq-WOVBOA

kopperdrake
01-08-2020, 04:06 AM
LW CAD is more accurate than modelling in 3ds Max (the only example for me, because I use it at work)... in 3dsmax, I can draw splines/curves out, and get a reading on the length, type it in and get it exact... but, when it comes to doing updates, moving points around, it becomes a huge mess. You can't easily and quickly, grab a load of points and then move them 10mm down on the X axis without opening up the translate panel. Typing in the amount and then rinse and repeat. LWCAD with LW makes it really easy to make accurate adjustments to your splines/meshes. Much easier than in 3ds Max, in my opinion.

3dsmax makes it more of a fight to be accurate at all times with distances and things. Constantly having to grab the measure tool, setting snap locations and double-checking measurements.

I had to use Max in the games industry, a while ago now, and it sounds like much hasn't changed when it comes to basic modelling. I ended up modelling assets in LightWave, then moving them to Max to add dynamics, then to the in-house game engine tool (which was very much like LightWave as I believe the company was pretty much all LightWave at its inception - handy for me).

The reason I hated Max as that the workflow as so convoluted when it came to modelling - with LightWave you could get down and dirty so quickly with points and polys immediately. Max was like wading through treacle when it came to making changes.

When I left the games industry, I had a client who could give me as much Max work as I wanted, but I only took the jobs that I could produce from scratch in LightWave, because I seriously hated working in Max so much - there was no pleasure in it. He asked me one day, "Why don't you move over to Max?". I told him, "I'd rather herd goats than move to Max." - in all seriousness. He was shocked, but there you have it.

Now, I'm not saying Modeler is perfect - without LWCAD I'm sure I would have been tempted to move a while ago - Modo looked tempting for a while, but the complete LW package of modelling and animating always won through, and LWCAD has allowed me to have 'fun' in LightWave. I would dearly love Modeler to be rebuilt, with Viktor either at the helm, or whispering in the helmsman's ear constantly.

JohnMarchant
01-08-2020, 05:11 AM
I had to use Max in the games industry, a while ago now, and it sounds like much hasn't changed when it comes to basic modelling. I ended up modelling assets in LightWave, then moving them to Max to add dynamics, then to the in-house game engine tool (which was very much like LightWave as I believe the company was pretty much all LightWave at its inception - handy for me).

The reason I hated Max as that the workflow as so convoluted when it came to modelling - with LightWave you could get down and dirty so quickly with points and polys immediately. Max was like wading through treacle when it came to making changes.

When I left the games industry, I had a client who could give me as much Max work as I wanted, but I only took the jobs that I could produce from scratch in LightWave, because I seriously hated working in Max so much - there was no pleasure in it. He asked me one day, "Why don't you move over to Max?". I told him, "I'd rather herd goats than move to Max." - in all seriousness. He was shocked, but there you have it.

Now, I'm not saying Modeler is perfect - without LWCAD I'm sure I would have been tempted to move a while ago - Modo looked tempting for a while, but the complete LW package of modeling and animating always won through, and LWCAD has allowed me to have 'fun' in LightWave. I would dearly love Modeler to be rebuilt, with Viktor either at the helm, or whispering in the helmsman's ear constantly.

I really like Viktors implementation of LWCad in LW, NT could learn something from that. The important information is right where your cursor is, no need to look away or search for information. Whilst i dont want LWCad to be incorporated into LW it would be nice to see Viktor onboard if only over the shoulder to help with modeler.