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Wayne Heim
07-02-2019, 05:24 PM
Need some suggestions. I'd like to create a openvdb smoke simulation of smoke leaking out of the cracks around the top edge of a closed door. I need to bring the sim into Keyshow when done. I've never done anything like this before so any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Wayne

prometheus
07-03-2019, 10:42 AM
Need some suggestions. I'd like to create a openvdb smoke simulation of smoke leaking out of the cracks around the top edge of a closed door. I need to bring the sim into Keyshow when done. I've never done anything like this before so any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Wayne

If it is a necessity to learn the VDB tools in lightwave..ok, but be aware, the Gas solver and vdb tools are slow to simulate and hard to get visual feedback in openGL, as well as to direct smoke flow and collisions etc.
Otherwise I would advise to do it in blender, select your smoke flow object, hit spacebar and write quicksmoke..Tada you got a smoke going on, place your wall and door in the scene and make that a smoke object/collision object.
change cache from point to vdb, load the vdb files in to keyshot and see if that works.

Didnīt know keyshot (not keyshow right?) had vdb, but checked it just recently..though the rendering seems slow, either the presenter is showcasing it badly, or having a slow computer.

XswampyX
07-03-2019, 03:46 PM
Have a look.

145387

You will want to fiddle around with it and then save it out, before you incorporate it into your final scene.

Wayne Heim
07-03-2019, 04:11 PM
Have a look.

145387

You will want to fiddle around with it and then save it out, before you incorporate it into your final scene.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

Wayne

Wayne Heim
07-03-2019, 04:15 PM
I created a basic smoke sim in Blender but now I can't figure out how to export it so I can import it into Keyshot.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne

prometheus
07-03-2019, 04:47 PM
I created a basic smoke sim in Blender but now I can't figure out how to export it so I can import it into Keyshot.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne

You donīt really export, you simply make sure the smoke sim is cached properly, go to the domain object physics tab, a bit down in the tab list..you have smoke flames/smoke high resolution/smoke groups..then follows smoke cache, I think by default the cache file format is set to point cache, you can change that to openvdb in the drop down list there, then click on external and you will have a file path to enter..click on that folder to set your folder where to save the vdbīs
click on play to run the simulation properly to vdb.

those vdb files can then be located within Lightwave vdb and loading it from that file path to a vdb item.
I do not know how keyshot imports VDB, nor if it actually would work in keyshot, but if it can read VDB you should be able to try and hopefully it works.
Each VDB file represent a frame in blender, you can load single frame in Lightwave like for clouds, or load the whole sequence, it should be enough to load the first or second vdb file in Lightwave and it should automaticly read in the others.

prometheus
07-04-2019, 01:18 PM
Have a look.

145387

You will want to fiddle around with it and then save it out, before you incorporate it into your final scene.

Thanks, for sharing XswampyX, you often do jump in with samples for everyone.

Though the VDB tools and now natively ways of doing some crude fluid smoke and fire stuff, I think it needs to be improved on quite a bit more very soon, itīs just to darn slow to simulate, and the OpenGL tick representation is just to bad to be of any
good use really ..other than just get a crude visual feedback on that it is there and simulating sort of.
If the Lw team can provide a visual voxel representation in OpenGL ala blender, and improve the speed 4-5 times maybe, then itīs a matter of wrapping all the node works in to a UI framework and further on add some more turbulent settings for the smoke etc.

JohnMarchant
07-05-2019, 05:29 PM
Have a look.

145387

You will want to fiddle around with it and then save it out, before you incorporate it into your final scene.

For some reason XswampyX your file crashes on my computer. LW 2019.0.3. Ive tried loading just the model in modeler and resaving it but 4 times the LWS file just crashes LW.

prometheus
07-05-2019, 06:06 PM
For some reason XswampyX your file crashes on my computer. LW 2019.0.3. Ive tried loading just the model in modeler and resaving it but 4 times the LWS file just crashes LW.

is it upon loading it crashes, or if you click on play or use VPR?
it works for me without crashing, but at other times working with VDB, it can crash often..feels a bit unstable at times.

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 02:56 AM
This is on loading, cannot even get it to load in.

fishhead
07-06-2019, 04:12 AM
just tried here - only now downloaded it and without really having a clue whats going on in the nodes, though - but all behaves quite nicely...
2019.0.3 on Win7 SP1

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 04:21 AM
Maybe its a windows 10 thing, who knows.

fishhead
07-06-2019, 04:42 AM
I have a Win10 Enterprise build 1809 (Build 1903 did not behave well - mostly with other apps, not really tested with LW - so I decided to downgrade after a day already...) Threadripper 1950 System at work, but wonīt be back in before tuesday :-\

p.s.
using Win10 for 7 month now - on a regular basis (worksdays, that is...) but still donīt like it much... besides compatibilty needs (to get certain apps running at all) I do not see much benefit over what Win7 offered.. I am not really a gamer, though... YMMV...

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 05:02 AM
Yes, i agree not a fan of Windows 10, however, they decided to upgrade before the loss of Win 7 support so not much i can do about it. I think Windows 10 is also what is blocking some permissions on LW and also the hub periodically. If i run modeler first the hub does not start in most cases, however, if i run Layout, then close it down and then run modeler the hub then stays. Im also fairly sure its how LW also installs itself, not where or anything but how it sets its permissions and such when installing.

XswampyX
07-06-2019, 06:25 AM
Strange?

I'm using window Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134

Here it is again with the frame set to 0 and the smoke (null) object properties use node tick-box un-ticked.

See if that works?

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 06:44 AM
Thanks for that mate, still crashes on my machine.

Dont worry about it, must be a windows thing, im on the latest build.

Qexit
07-06-2019, 07:20 AM
Not much help but I can load both scenes into LW 2019.0.3 running in Windows 10 Pro Version 1903 Build 18362.207 without any problems...but due to my lack of knowledge of running OpenVDB (still on my To Do list) nothing happens when I play the scene.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 07:42 AM
Thanks for that mate, still crashes on my machine.

Dont worry about it, must be a windows thing, im on the latest build.

Running windows 10 home edition here, 32GB RAM, 64 bit.
Asus (Rog) Desktop PC G20B

had no issue with it loading.

I would suggest try the scene with the end node slots disconnected, that way it will not evaluate the nodes until it is plugged in, if itīs still crashing then it could be something not related to VDB but the geometry or memory perhaps.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 07:45 AM
Not much help but I can load both scenes into LW 2019.0.3 running in Windows 10 Pro Version 1903 Build 18362.207 without any problems...but due to my lack of knowledge of running OpenVDB (still on my To Do list) nothing happens when I play the scene.

Nothing happens? how fast is the timeline moving, that should indicate that it is calculating something if it is slow moving per frame, it could be that you do not have the density or emission openGL preview checked, that is the little eye icon next to those vdb channels.

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 07:55 AM
No worries mate, just one of those things i guess.

- - - Updated - - -

It calculates to about 35% this time, the first scene file calculated to just over 40%. I've got 64GB of memory so that should not be the issue.

Ive got it working now with load from scene.

Qexit
07-06-2019, 08:36 AM
Nothing happens? how fast is the timeline moving, that should indicate that it is calculating something if it is slow moving per frame, it could be that you do not have the density or emission openGL preview checked, that is the little eye icon next to those vdb channels.The little eye icon is checked so, as I said, it's certain to be something simple/glaringly obvious that I am overlooking. I'll have to look into it further as I really should get my head around OpenVDB. But that will have to wait until tomorrow as I'm out of LW time for today :)

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 09:24 AM
Same here, wife calls and a duty to go shopping. At least i got it working which was the main thing. Bloody hot as hell here today.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 11:55 AM
Same here, wife calls and a duty to go shopping. At least i got it working which was the main thing. Bloody hot as hell here today.

Donīt forget to clean the house and enjoy summer, guess it may be to hot to be enjoyable then.
We didnīt get that heat many countries in Europe got recently.
We had a hot summer last summer, this summer..well I got five weeks vacation..and the two first weeks in the middle of june was nice an warm, maybe 25-27 + celsius, then it all switched and we have had a pair of colder summer weeks now with a lot of rain, in fact so cold ( 10-11 + celsius during day and night) that I had to put on my heat fan at night ( I could just close the window of course but I want fresh air as well)

So this summer became more what it usually can be normally, last years very lwarm weather during a long period is not to be found this year it seems, I got two weeks left and hoping for at least one week with high temps and more sun to get a bit tanned, otherwise I prefer more gentle summer days..what I do like is nice evenings with 18-20 degrees plus so one can be out late at night.

Going through some setups of vdb collisions ..which I still need to understand better, it seems the collision grid and VDB do not work unless being on the same object split in to layers?

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 12:13 PM
Well shopping is now done so the wife is now happy.

The heat we get used to in Spain, but its the humidty at times, especially if it gets overcast, usually means that the night will be hot as well which is really more of the problem.

Just glad we have good A/C and ceiling fans to cool us down.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 12:16 PM
I think I was wrong, managed to do fluid collision with seperate objects, but it seems any collision object needs some kind of polydivisions for it to react properly, not sure..unfortunately this is very lacking in the lightwave docs.
Not sure any youtube vids covered fluid collision with the gas solver properly?

- - - Updated - - -


Well shopping is now done so the wife is now happy.

The heat we get used to in Spain, but its the humidty at times, especially if it gets overcast, usually means that the night will be hot as well which is really more of the problem.

Just glad we have good A/C and ceiling fans to cool us down.

Same here, humidity when it is warm at night is a pain, and I suppose the apartments may be more adapted with AC in spain, we only need to use it maye two or three weeks in Sweden mostly, a little more as it were last year, this summer so far..no need for AC really, simple fans is enough currently.

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 12:29 PM
I hope you are recording these tests your doing or at least saving the scene files.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 12:44 PM
I hope you are recording these tests your doing or at least saving the scene files.

Just began, quite a newbie at it myself though, but we need Basic scenefiles for collision of fire and smoke, managed to get something through a hole in a mesh, but itīs to inaccurate and I need to figure out what settings to control the mesh boundary of the collision object properly, after that a proper fire temp setup for including fire.

Unfortunately the speed of the simulation is very slow..canīt compare with TurbulenceFD or blender fire and smoke in speed and openGL presentation..neither in setup UI friendlyness either, but hey..itīs there natively at least...cudos for that anyway.
Just hoping they can advance on it some more, cause at times I am asking myself, why o why am I using this slow sim, when I just can go with blender...so the speed need to wamp up foremost.

We also need basic item VDB container items, that means from the FX tab ..a button called add vdb container, add volumetric container, instead of always adding a null and select item types, now this could probably be something for scripters, or the lw team to include next time..makes it a lot easier in terms of workflow, the item volumetrics should also be set as none pyroclastic by Default, preferably already connected with the new procedural type.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 01:12 PM
Sample..Download attached scenefile, basic collision on to a cube with a hole, the collision mesh was divided and is a single object ..not two layers as in Xswampyīs scene.
Needs better mesh accuracy collision and some more stuff, but it is a simple setup.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145414&d=1562440354

145414

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 01:30 PM
Very interesting indeed, always liked to see your tinkerings. Off topic did you do any more cloud tests with the new 2019

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 01:34 PM
And it crashed again, even with load from scene.

Load by scene element worked.

prometheus
07-06-2019, 02:07 PM
Very interesting indeed, always liked to see your tinkerings. Off topic did you do any more cloud tests with the new 2019

Quite a bit..at least with volumetric items, doing godrays with the new sunlight and global scattering, and to get feathering ala cirrus from one single volumetric item...But yet maintaining fuller volumetric clouds at the same time and with the same item.

and simulate blender cirrus cloud and import to lightwave as vdb, based on the texture noise in blender for fluid density distribution, though I found it easier to do just that kind of sims in turbulenceFD and Lightwave procedurals.

But simulating clouds from VD? some initial stuff, but I am still doing R&D on that..a bit frustrating that the VDB sims are slow..so that kind of prevents me from investing to much time with that.
The setting up of godrays based on the new sunligth and volumetric distance is a bit difficult, starting to get some hang of it though.
Might post some sample images on google photos later tonight, but itīs mostly some tests.

XswampyX
07-06-2019, 04:24 PM
Quite a bit..at least with volumetric items, doing godrays with the new sunlight and global scattering, and to get feathering ala cirrus from one single volumetric item...But yet maintaining fuller volumetric clouds at the same time and with the same item.

and simulate blender cirrus cloud and import to lightwave as vdb, based on the texture noise in blender for fluid density distribution, though I found it easier to do just that kind of sims in turbulenceFD and Lightwave procedurals.

But simulating clouds from VD? some initial stuff, but I am still doing R&D on that..a bit frustrating that the VDB sims are slow..so that kind of prevents me from investing to much time with that.
The setting up of godrays based on the new sunligth and volumetric distance is a bit difficult, starting to get some hang of it though.
Might post some sample images on google photos later tonight, but itīs mostly some tests.

It's early days, but a welcome addition.



145416

JohnMarchant
07-06-2019, 04:42 PM
Nice XswampyX

prometheus
07-06-2019, 05:08 PM
It's early days, but a welcome addition.



145416

Thatīs not clouds, that is Lightwave on fire and smoke :D

By the way XswampyX have you been able to produce a good blackbody radiator for the VDB inside of nodes?
Been messing a couple of hours now with the VDB, not satisfied yet, and still have to figure out the proper method of applying it.
As from what I can see, you just canīt feed a temp grid output in to the blackbody radiator, but it may be that the value set in the gas solver temp..indeed affect the blackbody radiator though that one is just connected to the emission color, I would have to run more test with different temp settings in gas solver in such case.

Sure is way easier to tweak the fire shading in TurbulenceFD and in Blender.

I also thought it was easier to set up this blackbody radiator with particles only than now with VDB gas solver.
I donīt think things like this is covered in any docs yet?
Image...blackbody is utilizing particle age, and the vdb gas force is taken use of the particles velocity only..and not for voxel size, that is all done by the mesh itself.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145417&d=1562454419
145417

prometheus
07-06-2019, 05:28 PM
I must add..the setup I did above was experimental, after reviewing animated result and using particle age for fire blackbody, I can see that is not a very good approach..or at least it is hard to control the particle age fade since we do not have a gradient for it, maybe plugin the particle age in ot a gradient input, the blackbody must be able to use the gas solvers temp channels somehow.

Stupid me...One needs to use the cached files, and the vdb info of course and feed those in to proper slots.