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ianr
06-02-2019, 06:54 AM
LW 2019 REVIEW- by 3d WORLD MAGAZINE

( still a little luv out there, so disseminate this )

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Shown by Kind Permission of the Editor.
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lardbros
06-02-2019, 09:15 AM
I think that's a fair review really.
I personally still love using LightWave, it brings me more joy than frustration, and nice to see a positive review. Still think what they achieved with 2019 was quite underrated really... It's quite an impressive feature list, especially when compared to previous years.

Shabazzy
06-02-2019, 12:26 PM
I had no idea 3D Artist reviewed LW2019.

I agree with Lardbros on all counts, but I guess the point about it being underrated is really down to NT's marketing.

Thanks for sharing this with those of us who no longer buy print. It's appreciated.

kyuzo
06-02-2019, 12:32 PM
I still get 3D World, but go through phases of considering cancelling my subscription as LW hasn't been mentioned or reviewed for what feels like years.
This review, which is balanced and fair has probably delayed my cancellation! LOL.

JohnMarchant
06-02-2019, 12:34 PM
I think that's a fair review really.
I personally still love using LightWave, it brings me more joy than frustration, and nice to see a positive review. Still think what they achieved with 2019 was quite underrated really... It's quite an impressive feature list, especially when compared to previous years.

Agreed, i think the problem is underselling and promotion. Look at your average film, $150 Million budget and then another $50 on advertising, promotion and such.

LWG3D really need to sort all this out before releasing it. The videos, manual, content and everything, should not only be functional but also wow people. 2019 was a solid release but they did not spend enough time really pushing what it could do.
Most of the content in 2019 was from 2018.

Look at the presets, yes there are some but not so much and some of the preset system has nothing.

For me personally the killer now is modeler, it is getting to far behind the curve and has always been to destructive.

Chris S. (Fez)
06-02-2019, 01:31 PM
I think that's a fair review really.
I personally still love using LightWave, it brings me more joy than frustration, and nice to see a positive review. Still think what they achieved with 2019 was quite underrated really... It's quite an impressive feature list, especially when compared to previous years.

Yup

Nicolas Jordan
06-02-2019, 02:39 PM
I totally agree with the review. I think Lightwave 2019 is a good upgrade building on what was laid out in LW 2018 and it works really well for the kind of work I do in 3D!

prometheus
06-02-2019, 03:06 PM
For me the review feels like a short intro, and not any deeper review which would give more value to the whole review.
Unbelievable that Lightwave hasnīt crashed once on him, and how much did he use it...I can count countless times ..how that now adds up:)

The first Column discuss the general look of lightwave as it always has been with icons, and a little more on nodes, but how is that much different from previous versions, the workflow of working within the UI has both been improved and in some areas ..gotten worse.

Second column recognizes the VDB tools, and I sort of agree..a nice addition, but some tools could use enhancements, will see, further the column starts discussing the bridge to Unreal engine.

The third column just gives praise to Lightwave as starting to feel new again, and not crashing once.

Maybe I am not fair in reference to this review, I felt it was too thin for Anyone to make a good decision on allure more people to Lightwave for what it is, of course it was a 2019 review..and honestly, the upgrade itself felt a bit thin.
I should do a reveiw myself perhaps..still testing and testing though.

Small things are in there like new context aware search menus, it was horrible if you had many scene items and had created a camera target, and trying to find your null for targeting of the camera..way down in a list in the end, now you just have to start typing camera and target and it will popup to choose much easier...surely a plus in workflow, tiny things but good.

The VDB tools is nice and exiting, I just hope they donīt stop workin on it...things like adding advection noise to a converted mesh to volume is needed, simulating it as it needed now is too slow, In houdini you do not
have to simulate with velocity noise advection, it can be done directly static.

I also would like to see a Volume to VDB volume converter, that isnīt there..only mesh to volume, and shape to volume, this would add another level of flexibility ..letting you create your hero clouds for instance with Lightwave, but due to lack of other realistic sky phenomena, or lack of GPU speed for rendering of volumes..you could instead send that VDB to blender with faster renders, or send it to Vue for special design clouds.
Ultimately I would like to see Terragen get this import function of vdb volumes, right now they are working on the opposite just as I refer to what Lightwave should have, a volume to VDB volume export..clouds from Terragen should be there for VDB Export.

lardbros
06-03-2019, 05:08 AM
For me the review feels like a short intro, and not any deeper review which would give more value to the whole review.
Unbelievable that Lightwave hasnīt crashed once on him, and how much did he use it...I can count countless times ..how that now adds up:)

The first Column discuss the general look of lightwave as it always has been with icons, and a little more on nodes, but how is that much different from previous versions, the workflow of working within the UI has both been improved and in some areas ..gotten worse.

Second column recognizes the VDB tools, and I sort of agree..a nice addition, but some tools could use enhancements, will see, further the column starts discussing the bridge to Unreal engine.

The third column just gives praise to Lightwave as starting to feel new again, and not crashing once.

Maybe I am not fair in reference to this review, I felt it was too thin for Anyone to make a good decision on allure more people to Lightwave for what it is, of course it was a 2019 review..and honestly, the upgrade itself felt a bit thin.
I should do a reveiw myself perhaps..still testing and testing though.

Small things are in there like new context aware search menus, it was horrible if you had many scene items and had created a camera target, and trying to find your null for targeting of the camera..way down in a list in the end, now you just have to start typing camera and target and it will popup to choose much easier...surely a plus in workflow, tiny things but good.

The VDB tools is nice and exiting, I just hope they donīt stop workin on it...things like adding advection noise to a converted mesh to volume is needed, simulating it as it needed now is too slow, In houdini you do not
have to simulate with velocity noise advection, it can be done directly static.

I also would like to see a Volume to VDB volume converter, that isnīt there..only mesh to volume, and shape to volume, this would add another level of flexibility ..letting you create your hero clouds for instance with Lightwave, but due to lack of other realistic sky phenomena, or lack of GPU speed for rendering of volumes..you could instead send that VDB to blender with faster renders, or send it to Vue for special design clouds.
Ultimately I would like to see Terragen get this import function of vdb volumes, right now they are working on the opposite just as I refer to what Lightwave should have, a volume to VDB volume export..clouds from Terragen should be there for VDB Export.


Wow... the upgrade felt a little thin? Compared to what? 3ds Max???
Have you seen the 3ds max update for 2020? It's so thin it hurts.

LightWave 2019 had:
- VDB Tools
- Edge Shader
- Patina Shader
- All the shader construction nodes!
- Unreal Bridge
- FBX Interchange tool
- HiDPI Support
- UI Improvements like neater splines in node editor and the 'Tidy Nodes' thing... also the big popup searchable menus.
- Nvidia Optix Denoiser


I don't even think I've included everything, but I seriously wonder what you'd be happy with if you think that is thin on the ground :D
Please think of the developers sometimes when you post things like the above... they bust a gut to try and please the users, but comments like that just deflates all of their hard work. And they DO visit the forums.
Not trying to dish any dirt, but just be a bit aware of the things you say. Yes, it's just your opinion, but it's all too easy to kick a dog while it's down...when actually, the LightWave 2019 release was far better than any other release we've had... for a decade.

lardbros
06-03-2019, 05:15 AM
I had no idea 3D Artist reviewed LW2019.

I agree with Lardbros on all counts, but I guess the point about it being underrated is really down to NT's marketing.

Thanks for sharing this with those of us who no longer buy print. It's appreciated.

I totally agree about the marketing thing... NewTek are renowned for their poor marketing strategies for LW, and 2019 was a little bit better than previous efforts, but again... not good enough.
None of the newbies we get here at work have ever heard of LW, but they constantly bang on about Blender and that's all down to good marketing and enthused users.

vncnt
06-03-2019, 05:44 AM
I still chuckle with pleasure when I press Ctrl+Space.

Next step: multi-track timelines, like a proper NLE/DAW timeline.
To isolate groups of 3D Items and their animations, or to add animations on top of other tracks.
Including the mundaine Mute, Solo, Level/Transparency, and Speed controls.

hrgiger
06-03-2019, 06:14 AM
Wow... the upgrade felt a little thin? Compared to what? 3ds Max???
Yes, it's just your opinion, but it's all too easy to kick a dog while it's down...when actually, the LightWave 2019 release was far better than any other release we've had... for a decade.


LW 11 was a far better release with a much larger and wider range of features that addressed both modeler and Layout. I'm including of course 11.5 and 11.6 which were included in the purchase of 11.

JohnMarchant
06-03-2019, 06:31 AM
I agree with lardbros point about features. Look at the feature list for Max or indeed Maya, not exactly overwhelming is it, so much so many in the AD forums are sounding off on this. Remind me again how much is the yearly license and maintenance for either of these.

I think 2019 was a solid release, as indeed was 2018 and an upgrade is not so expensive compared to others and you own the software with 99 render nodes as well and no maintenance fees.

Is LW where we all wish it were, no not really, but it is going in the right direction, abeit a little slowly for my liking.

For me its modeler that really needs an overhaul and to be honest we are going to have to visit the whole code and Layout/Modeler integration to make Modeler as good as layout now.

I hope that the next release will address modelers short comings and especially the destructive nature of it when using bevels, cuts and booleans.

If that is addressed in 2020 then i will update, if its not then i would find it hard to justify updating. I use modeler a lot but only because its what i am used too and i use LWCad a lot in my workflow.
However i find myself more and more going outside modeler to model certain things. Some things like sculpting is not surprising and for that ZB is hard to beat, but now things like hard surface modeling i find better in Blender and export to LW to carry on.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 07:06 AM
Wow... the upgrade felt a little thin? Compared to what? 3ds Max???
Have you seen the 3ds max update for 2020? It's so thin it hurts.

LightWave 2019 had:
- VDB Tools
- Edge Shader
- Patina Shader
- All the shader construction nodes!
- Unreal Bridge
- FBX Interchange tool
- HiDPI Support
- UI Improvements like neater splines in node editor and the 'Tidy Nodes' thing... also the big popup searchable menus.
- Nvidia Optix Denoiser


I don't even think I've included everything, but I seriously wonder what you'd be happy with if you think that is thin on the ground :D
Please think of the developers sometimes when you post things like the above... they bust a gut to try and please the users, but comments like that just deflates all of their hard work. And they DO visit the forums.
Not trying to dish any dirt, but just be a bit aware of the things you say. Yes, it's just your opinion, but it's all too easy to kick a dog while it's down...when actually, the LightWave 2019 release was far better than any other release we've had... for a decade.

Lardbros, please understand..No other than I can comment on what I have for expression on what I feel it to bee, I may be right or wrong...that is open for discussion, I do not see my comment as disrespectful, it is what it is..meaning that not every release
may have that much features or work on it.

I wont even answer you on what I would need to make me happy...that is too many topics to cover and serves no function right now.

I do not compare to 3d max, I compare to previous releases of Lightwave.


If the Lightwave team doesnīt have a harder skin than being offended by a user that commenting on a certain release seemed a bit thin from his perspective so that they should feel it deflates their hard work, they should consider wether or not
they feel it to be true by themself and if I really have valid points for it, if not..disregard it, But if ever so valid..they should work harder.

As for 2019 to be the best upgrade so far, it is your opinion..not mine, and it will differ among us all.

The lack of modeling enhancement..a few only, or modeling in Layout is a huge part of being thin.

Shabazzy
06-03-2019, 08:42 AM
I mean no disrespect to you Prometheus, but I honestly think that NT, LW3DG and LW users are very fortunate that 3D Artist didn't commission you to review LW 2019 for their readers.

hrgiger
06-03-2019, 09:05 AM
Yeah what are you thinking Prometheus, you know you're not allowed to have your own opinion.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 10:12 AM
I mean no disrespect to you Prometheus, but I honestly think that NT, LW3DG and LW users are very fortunate that 3D Artist didn't commission you to review LW 2019 for their readers.

thats ok 🤗

i can surelt write one to fit newteks needs..for marketing ir better..but then I wouldnt be honest to myself..or anyone else.

if you disregard honest views/reviews ..then thats the way to go and you should not listen to my input...
I am utterly convinced that you are wrong in rhe sense of "for users sake"

none will gain from reviews that leaves out lesser good stuff..not even newtek...who has customers that deserves
a true review..if not we are left with B.S

if i write a review..it would be of both bad stuff and good stuff...and lightwave crashed on me many many times as a final chapter...with a remark that it isnt anywhere near the amunt of crashes i had wirt LW 2015.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 10:16 AM
Yeah what are you thinking Prometheus, you know you're not allowed to have your own opinion.

not the same as others...ill try to conform :)
that will make everyone happy and the weather just fine..everywhere.

Cageman
06-03-2019, 10:19 AM
LW10 was released Dec 30, 2010

LW11 was released Feb 20, 2012
LW11.5 was released Jan 30, 2013
LW11.6 was released Nov 1, 2013

LW2018 was released Jan 1, 2018
LW2019 was released Jan x, 2019

Before I draw any conlcusions and start to compare LW11.x release schedule vs time and features, I want to see what LW2020 and LW2021 holds, because that should move us into a similar 3 year schedule that was LW11.x.

fishhead
06-03-2019, 10:41 AM
Regarding crashes:
2019 is really stable for me so far. I am using it since it came out on both Win10 and Win7 (using it locally on my desk and also remote) - Right now for the sixth day in a row from 10 am through - some of these - days 2 am the next day. During this period no crash on either system.
But maybe I am not torturing it enough, who knows... I am mostly doing vanilla stuff at the moment. So: no hair, no vdb at the moment, Iīd love to test those but just havenīt had the time to play much for a while...
I had a time a few weeks ago where I had to use Metamorphic a lot for terrain and weighting stuff over the course of the better part of three weeks and canīt really remember 2019.0.3 crashing on me...
On the opposite: I have fusion (9) and resolve (15) on the same Win10 machine which crash a ton... So, I believe, circumstances vary a lot...

irt other features: well, yes, room for improvement (plenty...) but overall 2019 for me was a big step forward and I actually enjoy working with it. Hell, ctrl-space bar alone... ;-)

prometheus
06-03-2019, 11:00 AM
LW10 was released Dec 30, 2010

LW11 was released Feb 20, 2012
LW11.5 was released Jan 30, 2013
LW11.6 was released Nov 1, 2013

LW2018 was released Jan 1, 2018
LW2019 was released Jan x, 2019

Before I draw any conlcusions and start to compare LW11.x release schedule vs time and features, I want to see what LW2020 and LW2021 holds, because that should move us into a similar 3 year schedule that was LW11.x.


Sounds absolutely fair enough, Currently I donīt think I could do a good enough review with justice considering the little time I have spent with it, and not testing enough of the new features as well.
And as I said..even though It is my impression that it is a thin release, it may have justificed causes..if that is the case in the opinions eye that is.

Lightwave 2015 24 Nov 2014

- - - Updated - - -


Regarding crashes:
2019 is really stable for me so far. I am using it since it came out on both Win10 and Win7 (using it locally on my desk and also remote) - Right now for the sixth day in a row from 10 am through - some of these - days 2 am the next day. During this period no crash on either system.
But maybe I am not torturing it enough, who knows... I am mostly doing vanilla stuff at the moment. So: no hair, no vdb at the moment, Iīd love to test those but just havenīt had the time to play much for a while...
I had a time a few weeks ago where I had to use Metamorphic a lot for terrain and weighting stuff over the course of the better part of three weeks and canīt really remember 2019.0.3 crashing on me...
On the opposite: I have fusion (9) and resolve (15) on the same Win10 machine which crash a ton... So, I believe, circumstances vary a lot...

irt other features: well, yes, room for improvement (plenty...) but overall 2019 for me was a big step forward and I actually enjoy working with it. Hell, ctrl-space bar alone... ;-)

Hair and VDB is where it crashes often, and thatīs where I spent a bit of time, there is long standing crashing with certain procedural texture layers if you change textures in a certain setup..that has been
from 11.6 I think..so if anyone says no crashes, it is most probable that the reviewer doesnīt try certain things, and only try it biased from his point of interest or needs..or the reviewer just happened to find a rare example of Lightwave that is a bit different in code, or his hardware is top notch match for Lightwave..or the reviewer just donīt do stuff such as plug nodes in to slots they donīt belong to.
Did I miss anything? :)

Davinci resolve never crashes on me...there you go, and I canīt recall fusion doing so either.

hrgiger
06-03-2019, 11:01 AM
LW10 was released Dec 30, 2010

LW11 was released Feb 20, 2012
LW11.5 was released Jan 30, 2013
LW11.6 was released Nov 1, 2013

LW2018 was released Jan 1, 2018
LW2019 was released Jan x, 2019

Before I draw any conlcusions and start to compare LW11.x release schedule vs time and features, I want to see what LW2020 and LW2021 holds, because that should move us into a similar 3 year schedule that was LW11.x.

You only have to compare the value you get for your money. And 11 offered much more in terms of what you paid and what you received.

You can already spend more money now and get more features in other software choices. But I thought we were talking about LW specifically here.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 11:06 AM
LW 11 was a far better release with a much larger and wider range of features that addressed both modeler and Layout. I'm including of course 11.5 and 11.6 which were included in the purchase of 11.

Thatīs the one I think was quite good as well.

Shabazzy
06-03-2019, 11:14 AM
not the same as others...ill try to conform :)
that will make everyone happy and the weather just fine..everywhere.

LOL.

No, you are correct in expressing your honest opinion and I for one appreciate and respect you for holding true to your beliefs in such a dignified and respectful manner regardless of whether others disagree with them. It shows you have a true mature and adult mindset (one that's all too rare these days).

I think you're right again that the reviewer really shouldn't have pointed out that LW2019 didn't crash on him, since that is dependent on so many factors that it could be very misleading. I guess that's the problem with reviews though, they are all very highly subjective.

Thanks for staying honest.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 11:19 AM
LOL.

No, you are correct in expressing your honest opinion and I for one appreciate and respect you for holding true to your beliefs in such a dignified and respectful manner regardless of whether others disagree with them. It shows you have a true mature and adult mindset (one that's all too rare these days).

I think you're right again that the reviewer really shouldn't have pointed out that LW2019 didn't crash on him, since that is dependent on so many factors that it could be very misleading. I guess that's the problem with reviews though, they are all very highly subjective.

Thanks for staying honest.

:thumbsup:

lardbros
06-03-2019, 11:34 AM
Lardbros, please understand..No other than I can comment on what I have for expression on what I feel it to bee, I may be right or wrong...that is open for discussion, I do not see my comment as disrespectful, it is what it is..meaning that not every release
may have that much features or work on it.

I wont even answer you on what I would need to make me happy...that is too many topics to cover and serves no function right now.

I do not compare to 3d max, I compare to previous releases of Lightwave.


If the Lightwave team doesnīt have a harder skin than being offended by a user that commenting on a certain release seemed a bit thin from his perspective so that they should feel it deflates their hard work, they should consider wether or not
they feel it to be true by themself and if I really have valid points for it, if not..disregard it, But if ever so valid..they should work harder.

As for 2019 to be the best upgrade so far, it is your opinion..not mine, and it will differ among us all.

The lack of modeling enhancement..a few only, or modeling in Layout is a huge part of being thin.

I'm not saying what would make you happy, in terms of which exact features would mean you wouldn't be so negative around here... but what would make you happy in terms of the sheer amount of features and additions to LightWave? How many features does it take?

Yeah, modeller improvements would make me very happy too, it really would...no discussion against that at all.

LightWave 11 features, although kind of neat... I can't see a huge disparity in what we got then, versus what we got in 2019.
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I'm not saying any of this because I think your view isn't valid... it is very valid, and so is your opinion, and I'm happy to discuss anything. It's just a bit unfair to say it was a bit thin on features because they weren't tailored to what you were wanted. In your case, it was thin because modelling wasn't in Layout.
In my case, I desperately wanted edge shaders, much more control over my PBR shaders (which no one seems to talk about, it's an AWESOME feature!!!), UE4 Bridge and the denoiser and some neat UI treatments... and that's what I got I guess. Maybe I'm easily pleased, but I use many of these things every day. I've used bullet probably twice for actual work, and although cool, I rarely use it. I've never used flocking either, apart from messing around.

The features we got in 2019, I use constantly. Edge shader, which works very very well, I use nearly every day when rendering in LW. Also the wear and tear shader, Patina... it's great, and easy to use.
I've also used the mesh to volume stuff for actual work too.

Anyway, we can differ in opinions, I'm not attacking you... just trying to portray the opposing point of view, that's all.

hrgiger
06-03-2019, 11:45 AM
LightWave 11 features, although kind of neat... I can't see a huge disparity in what we got then, versus what we got in 2019.
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you've left out the features added in 11.5 and 11.6 which are part of LW 11.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 11:59 AM
One thing I could review about is workflow changes..and a bit of lack of getting access to the basic things, it goes from a bump map texture options directly in PBR material, a direct creation of nodes could be done I think by having that, if you want the nodes you enter them, but otherwise pbr is open for tweaks in first step UI (surface panel) second step is node panel) this is also how blender does it with a better connection when you add images or such in a surface and have them create and connect in nodes as well.

New volumetrics, lesser (longer setup)accessability when it comes to hypertexture just to get something going..you have to go through panel 1 to panel2 in order to get it working unlike the old hvs.

And metamorphic, itīs cool..but I can not review itīs full functionality or speed etc since I havenīt used it enough, but as for acess as I was talking about, they are not making it easier for a newbie in 3d or other software users acustomed to look for a sculpt tool, you wont find it anywhere accept for adding it in the propepties panel of the item, it is too hidden.

Now I have gone from MY perspective of things looking a bit thin..though some seems to agree with me on that, to what worries me quite a lot..the workflow changes and how things now needs to go through various panels in many many steps and nodes.

The new procedural node texture which carries all the procedurals in one node..to make it easier to switch..is a daring attempt, but at the same time you lack invert options and additionally most often need to add invert nodes as opposed to the standard nodes which has built in invert, and this procedural nodes unlike the standard nodes doesnīt have the options to tweak directly..you have to jump in to a third step panel to gain acess to that, and that panel will so easy hide itself behind others if you are not careful.
There may be valid re
asons for the procedural node to behave like this and it may be difficult to try and solve it so it acts more like old nodes, but when I see a pattern of these kind of worklow issues, I get a bit worried that a part of what made Lightwave special is slowly being erased in to a workflow of too many steps to access functions.

I maybe be short of praising the good stuff, I could probably improve on that, but itīs sort of the nature for me to point out where there is obstacles for others to take note on what could be improved, that may however not be a proper review ..just a rant of what I would like to see improved.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 12:24 PM
If I am not wrong, I think metamorphic needs a way to freeze a subdivision object in a direct freeze subdiv modifier and directly being able to continue to sculpt, otherwise ..sculpting with a subdiv modifier is slow..same in blender ..but blender has a better way of just commit the subdiv modifier and continue to sculpt, than Lightwave that seem to need Freeze trans object, and the object replace it.

That said, great that they have introduced it..and works nice with displacement maps and scene context landscape sculpting to a certain resolution density.

prometheus
06-03-2019, 01:26 PM
Metamorphic is an interesting and promising addition, Mark Warner made a tute about painting in with weight maps that connects with instances...now, you can do the same with metamorphic and painting in the Old Hypervoxels, if you add hv particles to the objects geometry tab and then set a weight map from there, you can paint in snow, blood or other stuff so while you are painting..the hypervoxels is there showing at the same time for each stroke you make, I do not know how good it works for animated paint though..It didnīt last long before Lightwave crashed..probably because I painted with vpr active directly.

I think Ivé gone too far off topic though.


https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145149&d=1559589847

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erikals
06-03-2019, 04:51 PM
is it strange that this thread is dominated by (once again) huge criticism on LightWave ?

nope. Zzzzzz...

oh why not, let's celebrate with a LW11.6.2 FiberFX render...

https://i.imgur.com/RBmoWnl.png

Shabazzy
06-03-2019, 08:45 PM
is it strange that this thread is dominated by (once again) huge criticism on LightWave ?

nope. Zzzzzz...

oh why not, let's celebrate with a LW11.6.2 FiberFX render...

https://i.imgur.com/RBmoWnl.png

Awwww.

Tim Parsons
06-03-2019, 09:21 PM
The new procedural node texture which carries all the procedurals in one node..to make it easier to switch..is a daring attempt, but at the same time you lack invert options and additionally most often need to add invert nodes as opposed to the standard nodes which has built in invert, and this procedural nodes unlike the standard nodes doesnīt have the options to tweak directly..you have to jump in to a third step panel to gain acess to that, and that panel will so easy hide itself behind others if you are not careful.

The whole node thing could be helped greatly by user defined most frequently used nodes somewhere in the nodal interface. I really liked the layer system and rarely used nodes, but now with 2018,19 I'm really liking the power of the node system and for certain things its way easier. It just needs a favorite list somewhere.

Gungho3D
06-03-2019, 11:20 PM
thats ok 🤗

i can surelt write one to fit newteks needs..for marketing ir better..but then I wouldnt be honest to myself..or anyone else.

if you disregard honest views/reviews ..then thats the way to go and you should not listen to my input...
I am utterly convinced that you are wrong in rhe sense of "for users sake"

none will gain from reviews that leaves out lesser good stuff..not even newtek...who has customers that deserves
a true review..if not we are left with B.S

if i write a review..it would be of both bad stuff and good stuff...and lightwave crashed on me many many times as a final chapter...with a remark that it isnt anywhere near the amunt of crashes i had wirt LW 2015.


not the same as others...ill try to conform :)
that will make everyone happy and the weather just fine..everywhere.
Keep the honest reviews and feedback coming Prometheus ...

prometheus
06-04-2019, 01:06 AM
Keep the honest reviews and feedback coming Prometheus ...

If no one points out flaws or things that doesnīt work as good as it has potential to do, then what is left is misery and a product that will slowly die, that is why we have criticism, and the hard part is to criticise
constructively, and that means describing the kind of issue well and itīs flaw, and also sometimes refer to how other software handles just that particular issue, suggestions how it could or should work is also referenced to
other software.

If users find that negative..without seeing it for what it is, that is not constructive criticism, or else I got the wrong compass for this kind of thing, itīs not impossible either:)
itīs not the amount of constructive criticism that in my opinion that deserves to be labeled negative, it depends on what kind of value loaded descriptions you put in to the criticism, if you constantly says..this sucks, this is never going to change etc.
I myself isnīt pixel perfect..but it isnīt my intent to act out negative with an agenda, and I try to be more specific and constructive in criticism..Itīs a journey.

lardbros
06-04-2019, 03:35 AM
you've left out the features added in 11.5 and 11.6 which are part of LW 11.

Which were?????

lardbros
06-04-2019, 03:38 AM
Don't get me wrong... I point out flaws in LW too. And then submit them as bug reports or feature requests, with content, and videos explaining what I did to make it crash, or hang, and then they fix them.

I understand the need to moan, and point out the flaws, but taking over every thread with negativity and pessimism doesn't help. It just makes the forum a sour place to visit.

I try to post more positive things here, and help people who are stuck... maybe try that to vent your frustrations?

prometheus
06-04-2019, 03:44 AM
Don't get me wrong... I point out flaws in LW too. And then submit them as bug reports or feature requests, with content, and videos explaining what I did to make it crash, or hang, and then they fix them.

I understand the need to moan, and point out the flaws, but taking over every thread with negativity and pessimism doesn't help. It just makes the forum a sour place to visit.

I try to post more positive things here, and help people who are stuck... maybe try that to vent your frustrations?

at whom did you aim your answer?

Otterman
06-04-2019, 04:19 AM
Don't get me wrong... I point out flaws in LW too. And then submit them as bug reports or feature requests, with content, and videos explaining what I did to make it crash, or hang, and then they fix them.

I understand the need to moan, and point out the flaws, but taking over every thread with negativity and pessimism doesn't help. It just makes the forum a sour place to visit.

I try to post more positive things here, and help people who are stuck... maybe try that to vent your frustrations?


AGREE! You have to wade through tonnes of posts by the same people saying the same thing before you get to anything useful/inspiring.

Cageman
06-04-2019, 04:23 AM
You only have to compare the value you get for your money. And 11 offered much more in terms of what you paid and what you received.

You can already spend more money now and get more features in other software choices. But I thought we were talking about LW specifically here.

Well... first off all... the new shading system in LW which brings the renderer on par with other render engines such as Arnold and Mantra was worth the update to LW2018, alone. The rest of the features are just a bonus, in my eyes.

Secondly, the goodwill from NT/LW3DG, was always a bit too good. I knew that, at some point, that had to change. And now it has, and I put my money where my mouth is; I will continue to support LW3DG becase I really like using LW.

LW2019... The Unreal bridge... for those that had moved over to use Unreal as an offline renderengine/game engine... that bridge is probably worth the $350 upgrade alone. CTRL+Space; a small thing, but way too useful. Thing is, I see lots of value in what LW3DG have developed so far since LW2018.

So, I will wait for LW2020 and LW2021 and see of those $1050 are worth it. So far, I have not been displeased with where LW is going.

vncnt
06-04-2019, 04:26 AM
Davinci resolve never crashes on me...there you go, and I canīt recall fusion doing so either.
I'm using Resolve Studio 15 and Fusion 9.
Using Resolve on this very moment (Fusion tab) for its mp4 Loader (Fusion 9 refuses my mp4 files), DeltaKeyer, CleanPlate, ColorCorrector and (on the Color tab) its amazing DNR.

I can confirm that Resolve is quite stable but it does have issues.

- With DNR turned on in the Color tab, the Fusion timeline becomes unstable and Resolve is entirely dead, Win10 is dead -> power button!

- Copy/Paste Fusion nodes between Clips is impossible. You need to start over again per clip. This is not very productive when chroma shots and CC's are similar.

- Double or single click or dragging an Effect to the Fusion Nodes viewport seems inconsistent, sometimes non-functional, sometimes it does it twice. Better not use this method and use the classic Fusion method to add nodes.

- Zoom/pan in Fusion tab viewport is different from viewport in Color tab. Shortcuts (Fit, Zoom 100%, ...) are different or absent compared to Fusion 9.

- Editing clips on the Resolve timeline makes me cry for editing in Vegas Pro 14 again with its predictable/intuitive Pan and Zoom/Center of the timeline events. Some features of the Propellerheads Reason timeline are better -> Newtek/BMD/Magix should learn from them and each other. (For me, color correction in Fusion is much better than Vegas, and the YRGB CC in Resolve is even better than Fusion 9. I think it's worth the detour.)

hrgiger
06-04-2019, 05:11 AM
Which were?????


Bullet softbodies
cloth
forces
fiberfx working with softbodies
fiberfx bundling
new editing style guides
After Effects Interchange
MDD Multi-loader
ABF UV unwrap
edit edges
transform tool
heat shrink
thicken
place mesh
tweak tool
Genoma/Rig Presets
Virtual Studio
DOF in VPR
Node Edge Rendering
Motion Blur in VPR
Predator/prey behavior in flocking
Per Object control/copy paste functions in Instancing
Dome light image maps
Center speed curves
Surface editor paste options
Motion Path options
Spline Control
Raycast node
3D printing export
New Color picker
CgFX shaders
Alembic support
DPX support
Faster VPR interaction
Python improvements
Compound Nodes
Stereo Camera offsets
Motion Vectors for instances
Nvidia 3D vision/Pro

lardbros
06-04-2019, 05:51 AM
at whom did you aim your answer?

No one in particular, not you anyway... just in general the negativity in here can be a bit stifling.
I'm not being abusive, or picking on individuals. It makes for a miserable environment, despite loads of cool people doing cool work using LW, it always seems to focus on the negative around here :(

It could be much nicer if people just got on with work, and showed neat work that's all.

BUT... we're going round in circles... I'm out.

beverins
06-04-2019, 08:06 AM
thats ok 🤗


if i write a review..it would be of both bad stuff and good stuff...and lightwave crashed on me many many times as a final chapter...with a remark that it isnt anywhere near the amunt of crashes i had wirt LW 2015.

Adding more pointlessness to the thread, but where I work Maya crashes way more than LW. Nothing to do with OS, machines or versioning. We've learned to Save As constantly. Not to belittle anyone's opinions or experiences, but... yeah - the grass is just as brown on the other side of the fence in that regard at least.

I thought the 3D World review was in line with my LW 2019 experience as well. Good program, add to the toolbox.

Do people argue about brands of power tools like people do 3D software? Just wondering. Are there Makita vs Craftsman flame wars? :dance:

ianr
06-04-2019, 08:09 AM
LW 2019 REVIEW- by 3d WORLD MAGAZINE

( still a little luv out there, so disseminate this )

145140






Shown by Kind Permission of the Editor.
145141




This Thread Got Lost : One person said thank you.

Tracked off again into other issues, stand back you

Wavers! Revaluate: is your glass half full or your glass

half empty ? Well ? It was mean't to be a lift & pep -up

posting this for the forum.

beverins
06-04-2019, 08:22 AM
I'll say that Houdini, Nuke, Substance and Mocha Pro never crash for us here.

Adobe's entire line of software are crashtastic, sometimes the programs don't even start.. crashing on load.

Resolve and Scratch are pretty stable on Mac, but not on Windows.

Oh.. right.. this is a Lightwave forum. Well, I'll close by saying there's lots to complain about Lightwave, hopefully VizRT will inject some additional resources. However, the 2019 release I found to be a worthy purchase.

Car analogy time: yes, Lightwave might be like a 2015 Subaru Outback with a CD Player instead of CarPlay and Auto-driving... but it sure feels stable and safe. However, don't leave the front doors open or the under-door lamp will drain that battery fast.

- - - Updated - - -


This Thread Got Lost : One person said thank you.

Tracked off again into other issues, stand back you

Wavers! Revaluate: is your glass half full or your glass

half empty ? Well ? It was mean't to be a lift & pep -up

posting this for the forum.


3/4 full. Happy to see the article! Went out and bought a copy.

beverins
06-04-2019, 08:31 AM
Just a small point of note - with the new LW 2019 render passes feature, I was able to render out any of the data passes without a beauty pass needed. That is outstanding!

Point of note 2: at present, you CANNOT do this in Maya. You HAVE TO render a beauty pass to get any data passes. https://answers.arnoldrenderer.com/questions/2885/render-aovs-but-not-beauty.html

RPSchmidt
06-04-2019, 08:43 AM
Adding more pointlessness to the thread, but where I work Maya crashes way more than LW. Nothing to do with OS, machines or versioning. We've learned to Save As constantly. Not to belittle anyone's opinions or experiences, but... yeah - the grass is just as brown on the other side of the fence in that regard at least.

I thought the 3D World review was in line with my LW 2019 experience as well. Good program, add to the toolbox.

Do people argue about brands of power tools like people do 3D software? Just wondering. Are there Makita vs Craftsman flame wars? :dance:

Yes.... throw in the Milwaukee, Riyobi, and DeWalt guys and it's practically armageddon...

Black and Decker... don't even get me started!

Tim Parsons
06-04-2019, 09:45 AM
Just a small point of note - with the new LW 2019 render passes feature, I was able to render out any of the data passes without a beauty pass needed. That is outstanding!

Not so sure this is true. It always renders a beauty pass, it just won't save it if not desired. Big difference. All it takes is for you to forget to do a desired pass and you'll see that it takes the same amount of render time to get that one needed buffer. (Learned that the hard way. Thank god for the fog depth pass trick to get a depth pass out in record time. :))

Cageman
06-04-2019, 11:14 AM
Not so sure this is true. It always renders a beauty pass, it just won't save it if not desired. Big difference. All it takes is for you to forget to do a desired pass and you'll see that it takes the same amount of render time to get that one needed buffer. (Learned that the hard way. Thank god for the fog depth pass trick to get a depth pass out in record time. :))

Data-passes generally only should have 1 AA pass, so it makes sense to render them out separate from a beauty, because you can just turn down all samples to 1 (light/gi/aa etc). :)

3dslider
06-04-2019, 11:16 AM
LW 11 was a far better release with a much larger and wider range of features that addressed both modeler and Layout. I'm including of course 11.5 and 11.6 which were included in the purchase of 11.

Yes i was impressed by features from LW 11.5 and then i bought it this is my first Lightwave so i love so much :)

Tim Parsons
06-04-2019, 11:36 AM
Data-passes generally only should have 1 AA pass, so it makes sense to render them out separate from a beauty, because you can just turn down all samples to 1 (light/gi/aa etc). :) That makes sense, but then it's a whole 'nother hassle. :) I'm just glad I rarely do that kind of compositing as I usually just want a depth pass.

Marander
06-04-2019, 05:23 PM
The German magazine DIGITAL PRODUCTION also featured a multiple page LightWave 2019 review.

I cannot copy it here due to copyright restrictions but conclusion is that LW2019 is a worthy upgrade for existing users and NewTek is on a good track with the last two versions.

Personally I found it worth upgrading because of High DPI support, Undo, quick menus (specially combined with the db&w QckPck) and Nvidia Optix denoiser. OpenVDB and other features are still quite behind other products unfortunately.

prometheus
06-05-2019, 01:58 AM
The German magazine DIGITAL PRODUCTION also featured a multiple page LightWave 2019 review.

I cannot copy it here due to copyright restrictions but conclusion is that LW2019 is a worthy upgrade for existing users and NewTek is on a good track with the last two versions.

Personally I found it worth upgrading because of High DPI support, Undo, quick menus (specially combined with the db&w QckPck) and Nvidia Optix denoiser. OpenVDB and other features are still quite behind other products unfortunately.

I have jumped in here and in many other threads with criticism a lot, but if people could follow the status of my Lightwave purchase, they would now that I did in fact upgrade, so I am not criticising with an agenda to be negative or spoil something, and
it also shows that I find a value in Lightwave, otherwise I would have been complete nutcase for upgrading to 2019 version as I did this year, I did skip the 2018 version though.

RPSchmidt
06-05-2019, 08:24 AM
I have jumped in here and in many other threads with criticism a lot, but if people could follow the status of my Lightwave purchase, they would now that I did in fact upgrade, so I am not criticising with an agenda to be negative or spoil something, and
it also shows that I find a value in Lightwave, otherwise I would have been complete nutcase for upgrading to 2019 version as I did this year, I did skip the 2018 version though.

I don't think that it's the criticism so much (because most of your points are valid) as the venue.

If the thread were less of a "hey, Lightwave is finally getting some press again! YAY!" thread, I don't think the reaction from some would have been the same.

I definitely noticed that you upgraded and I'm glad... because I'm still hoping for some tutorial / preset cloud goodness in the future from you (will pay monies for excellent clouds!).

Tim Parsons
06-05-2019, 08:39 AM
I did skip the 2018 version though.

Real Wavers never skip a version. :D Now go stand in a corner for 15 minutes. :D :D :D

prometheus
06-05-2019, 09:39 AM
Real Wavers never skip a version. :D Now go stand in a corner for 15 minutes. :D :D :D

Unfortunately, or lucky from my point of view ...I donīt have any shame in my body at all:D

Tim Parsons
06-05-2019, 09:41 AM
Unfortunately, or lucky from my point of view ...I donīt have any shame in my body at all:D

I hear ya. :)

prometheus
06-05-2019, 09:48 AM
because I'm still hoping for some tutorial / preset cloud goodness in the future from you (will pay monies for excellent clouds!).

Interesting:) would you only like Lightwave clouds? or could blender fluid cloud sims, and houdini clouds and terragen clouds be of interest? and there is of course the connection between them ..Lik houdini to Lightwave, and how to do good clouds from meshes/cloudFx/ and also just painting the cloud in houdini and send for good vdb looking clouds in Lightwave.

I am thinking of putting some stuff up on clouds between these for software to showcase looks and some proīs and cons, later maybe vid tutorial...and perhaps selling content, that could be interesting..the question is what is of most interest? preset scenes, or tutorials..or a package?

And what kind of clouds are of interest? different types, larger skyscapes or perhaps more hero clouds?

Currently I am soon quitting my current job, only one week left..then vacation 5 weeks, but then I am free for doing stuff like that, not engaged in any new job yet.

RPSchmidt
06-05-2019, 10:28 AM
Interesting:) would you only like Lightwave clouds? or could blender fluid cloud sims, and houdini clouds and terragen clouds be of interest? and there is of course the connection between them ..Lik houdini to Lightwave, and how to do good clouds from meshes/cloudFx/ and also just painting the cloud in houdini and send for good vdb looking clouds in Lightwave.

I am thinking of putting some stuff up on clouds between these for software to showcase looks and some proīs and cons, later maybe vid tutorial...and perhaps selling content, that could be interesting..the question is what is of most interest? preset scenes, or tutorials..or a package?

And what kind of clouds are of interest? different types, larger skyscapes or perhaps more hero clouds?

Currently I am soon quitting my current job, only one week left..then vacation 5 weeks, but then I am free for doing stuff like that, not engaged in any new job yet.

For my part, I am interested in native Lightwave clouds; I don't own Houdini and although I have and use Blender, I would like to try to keep as much as possible in Lightwave.

I would be interested in a package that combined training with presets and scenes and included a variety of cloud types that is focused more on skyscapes, although hero clouds definitely have their uses.

I've created clouds using VDB in Lightwave, and while they are serviceable, I would like to get more variety and better cloud formations while learning more about their generation and animation.

Typically I would use stock video for cloud backdrops or composite clouds into a rendered scene using Trapcode, but while that is serviceable, you don't get the same level of realism in the environment. It looks real... but it doesn't feel real. Clients can't really tell the difference in the environment, but I can.

prometheus
06-06-2019, 05:32 AM
For my part, I am interested in native Lightwave clouds; I don't own Houdini and although I have and use Blender, I would like to try to keep as much as possible in Lightwave.

I would be interested in a package that combined training with presets and scenes and included a variety of cloud types that is focused more on skyscapes, although hero clouds definitely have their uses.

I've created clouds using VDB in Lightwave, and while they are serviceable, I would like to get more variety and better cloud formations while learning more about their generation and animation.

Typically I would use stock video for cloud backdrops or composite clouds into a rendered scene using Trapcode, but while that is serviceable, you don't get the same level of realism in the environment. It looks real... but it doesn't feel real. Clients can't really tell the difference in the environment, but I can.


Understood, Lightwave is desired then:)
For Large skyscapes lightwave isnīt ideal, not houdini either nor blender (skipping maya and max and cinema4d since I havenīt touched them for many years)
Modo I tried some two years ago..but in my opinion Ligtwaveīs way of doing it is easier and now better looking I think, probably faster also but canīt say for sure.

For large skyscapes that only leaves us with Terragen and Vue if you wanīt the best.
But back to Lightwave, it is somewhat doable with very large volume item containers, or try with particles as I have done with old hypervoxels..but I think you should avoid that due to the blending nature of volume particles, perhaps better using just several volume items, or just a very few particles serving as large particle clouds.

I do not own houdini myself, only apprentice versions which at least allows for saving out vdb to lightwave and I can render without watermark in nice glory, as long it isnīt commercial..should I go commercial in any project, I would look in to indie versions.

When it comes to hero clouds and shaping them and noise and lighting/shading....Lightwaves volume items are mainly procedural texture shape driven for both first shape (noise)and seconary shape (aslos noise)...If you want to design the cloud shape by a model or sculpt...you would have to convert to vdb with mesh to vdb, but then you got no noise (hypertexture) you would need to use velocity and advection vdb nodes..and simulate calculate in timeline to get a texture going on, that is a bit slow to do and
houdini does this much better since you can apply advection noise to a static cloud unlike how lightwave does it.

Changing geometry shape is also just a matter of changing the path to another object in houdini and you get it updated with the same volumetrics and noise but with a different model that is shaping the cloud, eually would be to replace object in lightwave perhaps, and hopefully the vdb tools and nodes will be intact.

For all blender and houdini and terragen glory, I still think Lightwave basic approach of adding a null and making it volumetric is one of the better ones to get going with a basic cloud, houdini cloudfx as I understand it is built differently and by itīs nature a bit slower than lightwave for a basic volume setup, once you have build your cloud and let it cook in houdini..which can take some time depending on quality and resolution, then itīs very sweet to use for realtime feedback.

For creating simulations that can yield hero clouds much more true to how a cloud actually is building up, we now have the vdb gas solver, and once simulated it can yield very very nice looking clouds, havenīt worked that much with them because it is very very slow to use, thus I rather work with blender fluid simulations and forces to build up clouds.
the shading in blender is easy to control with the new pbr volume shader and additional nodes, sending it to lightwave is easy to do as well, but you need high resolution sims most oftenl.

I hope to be able to cover that in some form soon.
Ivé seen that Liberty3D and Adam Gibson I think as well as Kelly has some cloud stuff, and Gibson covering some VDB tools for that, but I also see that the end result isnīt really portraying anything near cloud realism...but are perhaps focusing on the technical side of how to use the tools(which they most likely know more about than me), then it may be up to your own skill to push it to that extra realism level.

If I am going to embark on deeper understanding and work more on providing tutes and content, it would be nice to know how much interest there is out there, Of course I will try to point to a blog, or site with sample content of various clouds, a project that is in the cradle still, is to showcase cloudmaking between houdini, blender, Terragen and Lightwave..vue was something I used a lot previously with ple versions, but the noise functions for clouds wasnīt of my liking..and probably still isnīt improved, however...they did put in vdb loading now, so that is of high interest..what I saw from their youtube channel is interesting.

The best illumination and shading comes from Terragen, as well as noise functions and skylighting, but I am having a hard time with its UI and value controls, you just canīt design a hero cloud as easy as you do in Lightwave or Houdini.

And this post doesnīt really belong here, should be in one of my many cloud posts:) but undoubtly ...a review gives birth to all kind of stuff that Lightwave can do.

jwiede
06-09-2019, 05:38 PM
Lightwave has always felt solid yet cutting-edge, implementing new tools and technologies early on. While its morphing tools and particle systems have been strong for years, there has been room for growth in other areas and 2019 sees these covered.

:ohmy:

This is why we can't have nice things.