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3dhotshot
05-06-2019, 05:30 AM
If anybody has this old plugin let me know, would of liked to try it out

Gungho3D
05-06-2019, 05:47 AM
I got to use that, back in the day (12 years ago).

Single thread 32 bit for the demo, although once you forked out for the Pro ver$ion it actually came with a 64 bit demo version also ...

I recall being on this screaming tight deadline on 4 computers with dual CPUs, each CPU being dual core … so I split the scene up into 12 separate scenes, each rendering every twelfth frame and ran that across three machines at half resolution (Dynamite was great if you had 100 years to finish). Composited in the renders and made deadline!

Believe me, you haven't missed / are not missing anything by this product now being defunct (even though it could create amazing renders),

sadkkf
05-06-2019, 06:40 AM
What Gungho3D said. Very slow, but nice quality...when it worked. It was very crashy for me, which, I suspect, is why the developer vanished.

Sensei
05-06-2019, 06:48 AM
What Gungho3D said. Very slow, but nice quality...when it worked. It was very crashy for me, which, I suspect, is why the developer vanished.

Volumetric handlers require update after almost every LW version and revision, because NewTek devs are adding over and over new functions, which broke previously created plugins using volumetric handler.. :(
This puts off people making volumetric. Update of code required every couple months is tiresome.

prometheus
05-06-2019, 07:01 AM
I got to use that, back in the day (12 years ago).

Single thread 32 bit for the demo, although once you forked out for the Pro ver$ion it actually came with a 64 bit demo version also ...

I recall being on this screaming tight deadline on 4 computers with dual CPUs, each CPU being dual core … so I split the scene up into 12 separate scenes, each rendering every twelfth frame and ran that across three machines at half resolution (Dynamite was great if you had 100 years to finish). Composited in the renders and made deadline!

Believe me, you haven't missed / are not missing anything by this product now being defunct (even though it could create amazing renders),

i dont agree...for quality its not really anything you miss..bu kn regards to workflow there are some things.

master and slave cloning.
better opengl presentation.
faster to just add amd tweak fireshader as opposed to adding blackbody nodes.

Gungho3D
05-06-2019, 07:39 AM
i dont agree...for quality its not really anything you miss..bu kn regards to workflow there are some things.

master and slave cloning.
better opengl presentation.
faster to just add amd tweak fireshader as opposed to adding blackbody nodes.

Dude - you may want to clarify what you're attempting to communicate. Apart from "I don't agree," i have no idea what you are trying to say. If it is some point about how we should all push for quality, then I would agree - however the above is simply my response to "Hey, does anyone know anything about this plugin?"

prometheus
05-06-2019, 08:44 AM
Dude - you may want to clarify what you're attempting to communicate. Apart from "I don't agree," i have no idea what you are trying to say. If it is some point about how we should all push for quality, then I would agree - however the above is simply my response to "Hey, does anyone know anything about this plugin?"

Hey Dude,
Let me put it this way, You responded with" you wonīt miss anything" and you did not say.."you wontīmiss much or miss something"

As for being clearer...donīt you know what master and slave cloning was in the dynamite plugin? and how that is an option we do not have with current volumetric item?
When you clone a null with volumetric item shape...each null volume needs to be tweaked seperately, meaning if you set up a good cloud with a couple of null volume items, itīs a pain to tweak the shading
individually when you want it propagating over the whole cloud.
With dynamite you could clone it as a slave and you would just have to change the shading on the master and the children clones would change as well.

And as for fire tweaking...try and tweak the particle age blackbody within the volumetric item in Lightwave 2019 and they try tweak it in Dynamite plugin ..and you will see what I mean hopefully.

And for opengl...though in this sample vid I didnīt even have the temp representation active, but as can be seen..this is the kind of volumetric representation of the volume I would want in openGL, not just the flat ones we got
with volumetric items in LW 2019
https://vimeo.com/9127056

Also...this particle engine and sample utilised a deformed objects vertices...which You can not do with the current volumetrics, not without adding particles to the vertex initially and itīs a lot more tedious.
And what I forgot to mention, dynamite could use per polygon size for the particle location and radius instead of just vertices.

Now..this was all about the particle engine with Dynamite, and I havenīt even mentioned anything about itīs fluid engine...its not possible either in lw 2019.

And no..as I said clearly, not quality..but workflow...so why do you get confused about what I ment in that regards about quality?

:):)

Dynamite was crashy and a bit slow to render, but had a nice fire shader...
Oh..I forgot, I think the blending of nulls was better than current volumetric item, while the blending per particle is pretty much equally good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQErPVHNfBo

Gungho3D
05-06-2019, 08:59 PM
Hey Dude,
Let me put it this way, You responded with" you wonīt miss anything" and you did not say.."you wontīmiss much or miss something" ...


That's about as far as I've bothered to read regards your reply.

Get some sleep, you'll feel better, instead of getting on a high horse wanting to bust people's chops ... in future try and say something helpful, which from time to time you actually manage to do.

prometheus
05-07-2019, 01:43 AM
That's about as far as I've bothered to read regards your reply.

Get some sleep, you'll feel better, instead of getting on a high horse wanting to bust people's chops ... in future try and say something helpful, which from time to time you actually manage to do.

Gungho3D

Please knock it off will you, and try keep to the forum rules with a civil tone.

Initially You wanted a better description, I then gave you one with a discussion around the tools..which you donīt bother to read as you said for some unknown reason.

You seem to have been upset with something I have written...was it my initial respons to your post, where I just plainly said..I donīt agree..and also with the following comment that One surely miss a few tools, How you in some way have perceived it as snarky is something I fail to see why that is.

No..sorry..you donīt have any incitaments that justifies you to tell me to get some sleep, and your high horse comment is just plain mumbo jumbo.

In what way do I try to "bust peopleīs chops" I am gladely awaiting your reference to where I do that if you can provide such reference.

Why didnīt you read my response, then commenting on it without having read up on it, if you had you would have seen that it is helpful..we discuss the dynamite plugin here, not wether or not I was snarky.

I didnīt see you in anyway contributing to the discussion by replying with focus on what I read on the tool and how it works, please try and get back to that if it is to serve any purpose and following the topics.

Marander
05-07-2019, 03:41 AM
That's about as far as I've bothered to read regards your reply.

Get some sleep, you'll feel better, instead of getting on a high horse wanting to bust people's chops ... in future try and say something helpful, which from time to time you actually manage to do.

Hey Gungho3D I know it's not my battlefield but I find you're not fair to Prometheus.

He's always communicating in a very respectful and friendly way and has provided countless good tips in this forum.

Real 3D nerds like us always have too few sleep ;-)

Gungho3D
05-07-2019, 03:42 AM
Gungho3D

Please knock it off will you, and try keep to the forum rules with a civil tone.

Initially You wanted a better description, I then gave you one with a discussion around the tools..which you donīt bother to read as you said for some unknown reason.

You seem to have been upset with something I have written...was it my initial respons to your post, where I just plainly said..I donīt agree..and also with the following comment that One surely miss a few tools, How you in some way have perceived it as snarky is something I fail to see why that is.

No..sorry..you donīt have any incitaments that justifies you to tell me to get some sleep, and your high horse comment is just plain mumbo jumbo.

In what way do I try to "bust peopleīs chops" I am gladely awaiting your reference to where I do that if you can provide such reference.

Why didnīt you read my response, then commenting on it without having read up on it, if you had you would have seen that it is helpful..we discuss the dynamite plugin here, not wether or not I was snarky.

I didnīt see you in anyway contributing to the discussion by replying with focus on what I read on the tool and how it works, please try and get back to that if it is to serve any purpose and following the topics.
I guess I can answer likewise: lay off.

For future reference, maybe start by asking if what you think a person is saying is what they actually mean, instead of launching in with "I don't agree." And as things stood I wasn't talking to you I was talking to 3DHotShot. That, my friend, is what forum courtesy actually is.

Gungho3D
05-07-2019, 03:51 AM
Hey Gungho3D I know it's not my battlefield but I find you're not fair to Prometheus.

He's always communicating in a very respectful and friendly way and has provided countless good tips in this forum.

Real 3D nerds like us always have too few sleep ;-)
Hey Marander

I actually do agree - Prometheus is a valued contributor. And I do understand the many points he raised regards the software in question.

But to do the "respectful and friendly" you mention, I must be on another page from him as I always thought you shouldn't just butt into a conversation with "I don't agree." Ask, find out, then maybe try the kind of wording other people use to express differences of opinion.

So true: we 3D nerds need more sleep :)

I appreciate that you've written out of concern for your friend ...

prometheus
05-07-2019, 04:08 AM
Hey Marander

I actually do agree - Prometheus is a valued contributor. And I do understand the many points he raised regards the software in question.

But to do the "respectful and friendly" you mention, I must be on another page from him as I always thought you shouldn't just butt into a conversation with "I don't agree." Ask, find out, then maybe try the kind of wording other people use to express differences of opinion.

So true: we 3D nerds need more sleep :)

I appreciate that you've written out of concern for your friend ...

I think you may be to sensitive of the phraze ..I dont Agree, it means just that..I donīt agree and it could be that I am wrong..or simply different views, itīs not aimed to chop anyone at the knees, and it doesnīt mean I dislike someone...
and I explained why I donīt agree.

The otherway would be to say...I agree, then the discussion would end up meaningless and false, so putting somekind of value in to it that it is disrespectful by saying "I donīt agree" that is something I do not agree with :) and what if you said ..you donīt agree with marander? :)

Back to topics, I think there were justified points I made regarding the dynamite plugin that shows why I think it has something the current volumetrics doesnīt have, though the current volumetrics is faster and includes a more PBR correct model.

3dhotshot
05-07-2019, 04:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiyPra5ZemU

Suzuki Akira confirmed this was Dynamite Pro I just thought the fluid sim effect was quite good so wondered if anybody had this plugin to play with. 64bit

Marander
05-07-2019, 05:51 AM
Hey Gungho3D,

All fine, I appreciate your answer!

Maybe also due to the fact that both Prom and I are not native English speakers... I used the term "I don't agree" many times myself without meaning to be offensive but just to state my opinion.

Cheers

raymondtrace
05-07-2019, 07:01 AM
Dude - you may want to clarify what you're attempting to communicate. Apart from "I don't agree," i have no idea what you are trying to say. If it is some point about how we should all push for quality, then I would agree - however the above is simply my response to "Hey, does anyone know anything about this plugin?"

I'm foolish for putting down the popcorn and joining in, but...

You need to quote (or at least read) the entire line if you have no idea what is being said:
"i dont agree...for quality its not really anything you miss.. regards to [B]workflow there are some things."

(emphasis added to point out what you missed, or intentionally ignored)

The misunderstanding is completely yours. Let's lighten up and hug it out.


...however the above is simply my response to "Hey, does anyone know anything about this plugin?"

However, nobody asked that question. You volunteered your opinion and then took issue when someone else offered an opinion as well.

RebelHill
05-07-2019, 07:05 AM
If ever there were an appropriate thread for a flamewar.

sadkkf
05-07-2019, 07:17 AM
Volumetric handlers require update after almost every LW version and revision, because NewTek devs are adding over and over new functions, which broke previously created plugins using volumetric handler.. :(
This puts off people making volumetric. Update of code required every couple months is tiresome.

Thank you for the input. I always suspected the maintenance of a plugin like this was challenging. My assumption was the dev just got tired of the endless cycle of revisions. I don't blame him/her/them.

prometheus
05-07-2019, 07:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiyPra5ZemU

Suzuki Akira confirmed this was Dynamite Pro I just thought the fluid sim effect was quite good so wondered if anybody had this plugin to play with. 64bit

I did try the dynamite demo with fluids, as I recall ..the fluids didnīt have much that something like TFD couldnīt replace.
My points was about the particle engine.

Go with TFD instead.
As I recall..someone at Newtek said they did try to contact the developer of Dynamite, but they never got any respons...he just went poof somewhere as I understood it.

sadkkf
05-07-2019, 08:00 AM
If ever there were an appropriate thread for a flamewar.

You win. :)

Gungho3D
05-07-2019, 08:01 AM
I think you may be to sensitive of the phraze ..I dont Agree, it means just that..I donīt agree and it could be that I am wrong..or simply different views, itīs not aimed to chop anyone at the knees, and it doesnīt mean I dislike someone...
and I explained why I donīt agree.

The otherway would be to say...I agree, then the discussion would end up meaningless and false, so putting somekind of value in to it that it is disrespectful by saying "I donīt agree" that is something I do not agree with :) and what if you said ..you donīt agree with marander? :)

Back to topics, I think there were justified points I made regarding the dynamite plugin that shows why I think it has something the current volumetrics doesnīt have, though the current volumetrics is faster and includes a more PBR correct model.
Ok, next round of popcorn is on me … :) … and no flamethrowers here.

Prometheus, I appreciate what you've expressed above. And on any point of agreement or disagreement, I agree that you should not say "I agree" when what you want to say is "I don't agree." And if you said "I agree" when you should have said "I don't agree," well … I just couldn't agree with that :) …

… yes it really is late here, now it's my turn to get some sleep and feel better in the morning.


Here's the thing - I believe your points regarding Dynamite to have been valid regarding that software, it's value, and any compare/contrast to current day volumetrics. And I can see that you have felt "invalidated" in that regard because of my reaction to your post. Let me apologise for that, I was not at loggerheads with your points per se.


However, please do hear me out: maybe Marander has a point, that language is an issue. The line to which you replied with "I don't agree," about 3DHotShot not missing anything with Dynamite having passed, was a throw-away line, an afterthought, a closing footnote of almost zero importance to me. In terms of language and communication, just a means of saying "hey, there's other ways of doing this." It was a closing line in a message where everything else is what was being said, and which I almost didn't add. To be singled out and addressed with "I don't agree" regards a trivial line said only one thing - you wanted a fight. After many posts and much ill-feeling, I'll accept your word that this is not the case. In summary, your detailed sw points were fine and valid, just never justified when that was never my point … I'm hoping that makes sense, if not I'll get someone to write this up in Spanish … :)


If I could request one thing - would you mind asking next time about what (if anything) was actually meant? I like eating popcorn while watching entertainment, it's much more challenging when everyone else is eating popcorn while I'm entertaining them :)


Where's that "hug it out" guy? … got any popcorn left?

ianr
05-07-2019, 09:27 AM
Volumetric handlers require update after almost every LW version and revision, because NewTek devs are adding over and over new functions, which broke previously created plugins using volumetric handler.. :(
This puts off people making volumetric. Update of code required every couple months is tiresome.


Sensei should we apply this to Turbulence TFD also?

raymondtrace
05-07-2019, 09:54 AM
Sensei should we apply this to Turbulence TFD also?

Certainly, which is why you can use the bundled utility of bcf2vdb.exe to convert TFD output to something more in line with LW 2018 / 2019 volumetrics.

Hopefully, as we all jump on the OpenVDB bandwagon as a more stable foundation, 3rd party developers might not have as many headaches with host application updates/upgrades.

...until OpenVDB has foundational changes as well.

Greenlaw
05-07-2019, 01:00 PM
We used Dynamite Pro in The Box at Rhythm & Hues way, WAY back when we were making Call Of Duty trailers. Dynamite had some advantages over HyperVoxels* and worked well for what we needed at the time.

The big issue was that the developer didn't seem interested in supporting it commercially. After some friendly email exchanges, I got the impression that he regretted selling it and he really didn't want the responsibility. That's fair but, at the time, I wished he had open sourced it or sold the code so somebody else could pick up the development.

That's ancient history though. Nowadays, there are much better options available to LightWave users for fire and smoke effects.

*Don't ask me what those advantages were...like I said, that was a long LONG time ago. :)

prometheus
05-07-2019, 01:06 PM
We used Dynamite Pro in The Box at Rhythm & Hues way, WAY back when we were making Call Of Duty trailers. Dynamite had some advantages over HyperVoxels* and worked well for what we needed at the time.

The big issue was that the developer didn't seem interested in supporting it commercially. After some friendly email exchanges, I got the impression that he regretted selling it and he really didn't want the responsibility. That's fair but, at the time, I wished he had open sourced it or sold the code so somebody else could pick up the development.

That's ancient history though. Nowadays, there are much better options available to LightWave users for fire and smoke effects.

*Don't ask me what those advantages were...like I said, that was a long LONG time ago. :)

You said..advantages over hypervoxels, and I take it you ment particles and hypervoxels?
I mentioned a few of those advantages..which also is advantages over the new volumetrics as well...as for fluids I do not see where it could have been better than turbulenceFD,

I forgot..also rotational controlls per particle which hypervoxels didnīt have, some other I described in previous post.
Dynamite also had some volumetric crt import function(I think), which I never did try out though.
The black body fire shader(particles and vertex voluemtrics) was kind of built in with instant acess for tweaking temp and cooling, new volumetrics got a node black body node, but takes more knowledge to set up right and still miss the cooling function.

sadkkf
05-08-2019, 11:53 AM
We used Dynamite Pro in The Box at Rhythm & Hues way, WAY back when we were making Call Of Duty trailers. Dynamite had some advantages over HyperVoxels* and worked well for what we needed at the time.

The big issue was that the developer didn't seem interested in supporting it commercially. After some friendly email exchanges, I got the impression that he regretted selling it and he really didn't want the responsibility. That's fair but, at the time, I wished he had open sourced it or sold the code so somebody else could pick up the development.

That's ancient history though. Nowadays, there are much better options available to LightWave users for fire and smoke effects.

*Don't ask me what those advantages were...like I said, that was a long LONG time ago. :)

I really thought about asking to buy the source code and continuing it, but for all the same reasons just decided not to.

ianr
05-09-2019, 11:20 AM
Certainly, which is why you can use the bundled utility of bcf2vdb.exe to convert TFD output to something more in line with LW 2018 / 2019 volumetrics.

Hopefully, as we all jump on the OpenVDB bandwagon as a more stable foundation, 3rd party developers might not have as many headaches with host application updates/upgrades.

...until OpenVDB has foundational changes as well.

Thank you very interesting & should be a sticky answer,

also very intersting Jasha took nearly a year to answer that

threads last post for help. I hope Kelly puts your remarks up

on Lib3d for reference.

Free4Ever
05-25-2019, 12:29 PM
Found an old version of the site archived and a 1.05 32bit demo:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071123173217/http://www.cantarcan.com/v11/html/main.html

At a glance, the 1.2 demo was not archived here...

Free4Ever
05-26-2019, 03:42 AM
Checked the whole site archive, no more zips (just 1.05). But there is a newer download page online, showing that there was a 64bit dynamite 1.2 lite and 1.2 pro demo available for download. https://web.archive.org/web/20090226035110/http://www.cantarcan.com/v12/download.html

prometheus
05-26-2019, 07:12 AM
Checked the whole site archive, no more zips (just 1.05). But there is a newer download page online, showing that there was a 64bit dynamite 1.2 lite and 1.2 pro demo available for download. https://web.archive.org/web/20090226035110/http://www.cantarcan.com/v12/download.html

I just donīt see why it would be worth it to pursue this dead product, trying to find the Lite versions for 64 bit anyway, it may be possible to do something with it with the particle engine alone from Dynamite in 32 bit in lw 2015, and as mentioned by me before, it had some things current lightwave 2019 doesnīt have, but then you need to find the 64 bit version.

But for fluids, you either invest in the only lightwave solution that is out there...which is turbulenceFD, or you go for a free tool that can do fluid fire and smoke like below...(various shading and resolution in the PBR volumetrics).


https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145077&d=1558876269

145077

erikals
05-26-2019, 10:20 AM
was there ever a 64 bit version ?

edit; sorry, yes there was.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090226035110/http://www.cantarcan.com/v12/download.html

Free4Ever
05-29-2019, 11:59 AM
-T(h)anks for the cool renders Prometheus.
-Tried my limited Google and Bing skills, but did not find any legal sites with Dynamite pro 1.2 demo.
-Would be nice as a free abandonware plugin, now that it has been offline for 11 years and multiple LW releases. Maybe someone with PI skills can track down the missing Can Tarcan and ask for a free release? (Question has been posted a few times before and yes there are better tools now)