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Munty
05-05-2019, 01:24 AM
I have been viewing a YouTube video taking you through the steps of rigging a character using the Genoma 2 IK/FK+ rig. The person demonstrating this process was using Lightwave 2015. All his procedures worked flawlessly. I am using Lightwave 2019 and when I have tried to import the character/its Genoma rig/weight maps Lightwave 2019 has failed to convert the rig? I naturally thought I hadn’t followed the instructions/method correctly so just imported the native rig (no amendments) only into Layout and I got the exact same result as before?

I contacted the person who compiled the video and part of his reply to me said the following:

“Custom rigs not showing up in Genoma Ui and Genoma Create build errors in 2019's Layout.”

If this is true then why has Newtek produced a version of their software that simply doesn’t work in its entirety. One of the main reasons I upgraded my version of Lightwave 11.6 to 2019 was to use the Genoma rigs, especially the Genoma 2 IK/FK+ rig. At this moment in time I feel cheated and let down.

What do you think Newtek (now Visrt) will do about this?

Kind regards

Munty

lardbros
05-05-2019, 03:06 AM
It was a bug that wasn't caught by the beta team. They didn't do it on purpose :)
Moving on, I am sure they will fix it.

Munty
05-05-2019, 03:12 AM
Thank goodness for that, hopefully they will fix it sooner rather than later.

ianr
05-05-2019, 05:39 AM
Thank goodness for that, hopefully they will fix it sooner rather than later.



Report this bug (2 LW3dG) is a must!

Munty
05-05-2019, 11:00 AM
Hi isn’t

I have reported it to customer support via email. I am hoping someone will get back to me tomorrow. I’m very surprised no one at Newtek has checked this works being so important to the Lightwave animation arsenal and being highlighted in the documentation as a 2019 addition? Their bug checking protocols prior to newly released upgrades needs looking into?

MarkAH
05-05-2019, 12:56 PM
I have been viewing a YouTube video taking you through the steps of rigging a character using the Genoma 2 IK/FK+ rig. The person demonstrating this process was using Lightwave 2015. All his procedures worked flawlessly. I am using Lightwave 2019 and when I have tried to import the character/its Genoma rig/weight maps Lightwave 2019 has failed to convert the rig? I naturally thought I hadn’t followed the instructions/method correctly so just imported the native rig (no amendments) only into Layout and I got the exact same result as before?

I contacted the person who compiled the video and part of his reply to me said the following:

“Custom rigs not showing up in Genoma Ui and Genoma Create build errors in 2019's Layout.”

If this is true then why has Newtek produced a version of their software that simply doesn’t work in its entirety. One of the main reasons I upgraded my version of Lightwave 11.6 to 2019 was to use the Genoma rigs, especially the Genoma 2 IK/FK+ rig. At this moment in time I feel cheated and let down.

What do you think Newtek (now Visrt) will do about this?

Kind regards

Munty

First off, you are (obviously) a beta tester. At your expense.
Next, IF it is fixed, it might be available in LW2020, which upgrade, again, will be at your expense.
I have been using LW3D since LW 9.2 and at this point realise that there will never be a bug free version.
It probably isn't possible, especially when the development team believes that as long as they don't get it done they will be guaranteed jobs.
Oh, are they in for a suprise!
Well, I hope their cars and houses are all payed for.
Not likely though.

I monitor these forums to find out how things are going with the latest versions.
Since the first release of LW2018 I am very carefull.
I downloaded that, installed it, and began to check out the new features.
It installed and started up just fine.
But it could not load ANY of my existing assets without crashing.
So, of course, I didn't buy it.

But before that got set right, the team just gave up on LW2018, and went ahead with LW2019.
Now it seems there is still a problem with much of legacy content being usable.
I don't feel that trading over a decade of work for a few new features that mostly seem to fail is any more encouraging than you do.

Other software companies have been going through similar issues like this and have chosen to purge the existing development team, and hire new departments, mostly in other countries.
This seems to be getting good results so it's quite likely to continue.

I've been in the engineering field many years.
But since I don't care for corporate culture, have always worked on contract, getting my assignments through head hunter agencies.
Many of these jobs have been done from my own office, but some companies want the development kept on site for security reasons.
LMAO, 'security reasons'.
In one of those situations, having an all or nothing deal with the agency, (make the trade show or no pay) I moved on the project at full speed, completing in 6 weeks what the thumb sitters had NOT done, in 9 months.
One of the company staff, seeing my progress, and not knowing the terms of my employment said to me:
"Take your time, job security, job security"
Yep, but not his.
I recently came across him sitting at a bus stop with his 'stuff' in his shopping cart.
If looks could kill...

lardbros
05-07-2019, 12:40 AM
Whoah there!
Legacy content crashes if it used 3rd party plugins, and those aren't installed. I've not had a single crash loading up ancient old scenes, so long as they had the 3rd party plugins stripped out, or the plugin was installed in 2018.

Im sure Newtek are doing all they can, maybe some processes could be improved, but it's not for me to say I guess.

Munty
05-07-2019, 02:29 AM
I received a very prompt reply from Lightwave support and the person replying was very helpful. It turns out I needed to load a missing plugin which was "ConvertTagsToNulls.py". That was found: C:\Program Files\NewTek\LIGHTWAVE_VERSION\support\plugins\scr ipts\Python\Layout\Generic.

What I do find confusing however is I haven’t done anything within the edit plugins interface since acquiring Lightwave 2019 so I can’t think why the ConvertTagsToNulls.py plugin wasn’t already loaded within Layout because it is a very important component to the Genoma rig loading process?

I only get one error message appearing now in the loading process and that is: ‘Use Morphed Positions not supported with the current bone mode.’. According to the Customer Support person this error message is not important.

I thought I would share my learning process just in case it helps anyone else. I can’t thank the Lightwave Customer Support team enough because they have helped me get up a running again as soon as possible and I can now proceed with my project.

Kind regards

Munty

lardbros
05-07-2019, 09:13 AM
Awesome news... and NewTek support is awesome! Deuce should get a medal for the work he puts in.

Chris S. (Fez)
05-07-2019, 01:04 PM
First off, you are (obviously) a beta tester. At your expense.
Next, IF it is fixed, it might be available in LW2020, which upgrade, again, will be at your expense.
I have been using LW3D since LW 9.2 and at this point realise that there will never be a bug free version.
It probably isn't possible, especially when the development team believes that as long as they don't get it done they will be guaranteed jobs.


So Newtek promptly provided OP with a solution to the problem.

If your assets are crashing, submit a bug report and Lightwave support will almost certainly respond if not solve your problem. Lots of Lightwavers are loading old scenes without issue (other than tuning surfacing and settings for the new renderer).

Your insinuation that LW developers are lazy is presumptuous and utterly unwarranted.

raymondtrace
05-07-2019, 02:39 PM
While this is a bug that can be resolved in a future update or upgrade, there are easy steps for the user to resolve freely, immediately. These take much less time than to type a lengthy rant...and even less time than a 6 minute complaint video on YouTube (ie. Brent's).

Problem 1: The Genoma preset viewer does not show a rotating sample of LWO3 files produced by LW2018 and LW2019 (however it still loads them fine).

Solution 1: After normally saving your rig from Modeler, save a copy in LWO2 format to put in the Genoma presets folder ... Modeler->Save->Export->LWO2(LW2015)

##

Problem 2: LW 2018 and LW 2019 have an improperly named plugin ("convert_tags_to_nulls.py"). It was previously named "ConvertTagsToNulls.py" in 2015 and earlier.

Solution 2: Go to "[LW installation location]\support\plugins\scripts\Python\Layout\Generic" and duplicate "convert_tags_to_nulls.py" to a file named "ConvertTagsToNulls.py". Then add the newly renamed plugin within LW's plugin manager. Having both names for the same file in that location appears to be safe.

lardbros
05-07-2019, 03:00 PM
Lol... That post made me chuckle.
I do agree, this fixes it, and all credit to you who the resolution :)
Just made me laugh because of the YouTube video rant, was very unnecessary as loading the genoma presets still works, it's just the preview rotation that doesn't :)

Just hope they do fix it and I'm very confident they will.

Munty
05-08-2019, 02:04 AM
I think I have slightly misled you all due to my inexperience! I didn’t realise that 2015 Layout used a different file name to 2019?

ConvertTagsToNulls.py = 2015 version
convert_tags_to_nulls.py = 2019 version

My brand new virgin/unedited version of 2019 didn’t have either of the two file named plugins loaded into it (as a consequence I am presuming no one else’s 2019 version has it loaded either?), that’s why Genoma 2 IK/FK+ rig didn’t work when imported into Layout. It wasn’t until Customer Support told me to add the plugin manually that the rig worked. The only file named plugin that is present in my 2019 version is ‘convert_tags_to_nulls.p’ so that is the file I used and it works.

The only reason why I put ‘ConvertTagsToNulls.py’ (sorry for my naivety) in my previous post was just for the convenience of being able to copy the file name from the text in my email received from Customer Support.

Sorry if I have confused people previously.

Kind regards

Munty

raymondtrace
05-08-2019, 04:15 AM
No worries...There's no confusion or misleading. Either method works.

The 2015 version of the plugin (actually written for LW 11) is nearly identical to the 2018 / 2019 version. The 2018 / 2019 version just helps a little with internationalization of text strings in the interface.


...I contacted the person who compiled the video and part of his reply to me said the following:

“Custom rigs not showing up in Genoma Ui and Genoma Create build errors in 2019's Layout.”...

I'm assuming this is Brent. He has been a valued instructor of LW but he's currently marketing a LW->B path on his YouTube channel...so you're not going to see objectivity regarding LW. He hasn't even used LW 2018 or 2019 beyond the 30 day trial, so his knowledge of the latest releases is severely limited. He seems more interested in pointing out faults than crafting solutions...which is odd for anyone working in this medium.

By all means, submit bug reports on this, but don't get held back by crusty curmudgeons. :)

lardbros
05-08-2019, 09:52 AM
I wouldn't worry Munty... it's all pretty complicated, and should be invisible to the user really. Just a shame that one bug has caused an issue, but it's good there is a workaround!
Happy Genoma-ing!!!

Munty
05-08-2019, 09:55 AM
I have imported my rig/character correctly into Layout after following very helpful advice and I’ve been playing around with the controls.

I have found the IK wrist icons to move either the left or right arms, the L and R FK shoulder and the L and R FK elbow manipulators allowing the shoulders and elbows to move independently of the IK manipulators.

I also have found the L and R IK ankle icons to move the legs.

What I cannot find are the L and R FK icons to move the legs at the hip independently of IK and the L and R FK icons to move the shins/feet at the knees again independently of IK.

Am I missing something or wrongly assuming that with this rig the legs and arms should be able to be moved with FK independently of the IK functionality? If it isn’t possible to use Fk for the hips and knees then is there a way to accomplish this within this rig setup?

The reason for asking is I’ve been watching a number of animators talking (who are from Dreamworks and Pixar) about their work flow and they all have said they would only use FK controls for such things as walk cycles.

Kind regards

RebelHill
05-08-2019, 10:38 AM
So... I presume you're actually talking about the IKIF+ rig, yes? That has IK only legs (though it does have an additional FK layer for the feet). In truth, it doesnt have "normal" IKFK in the arms, rather the IK is embedded atop the FK, giving an odd kind of hybrid, but like any number of possible rig designs, this is to suit their particular animation workflow/style.

Now as for the whole IK for this, FK for that thing... oh boy.

Walkcycling isnt a single method, you can do it a few ways. A common (and often older) way of doing it is to make walkcycles on the spot. In this instance, FK is preferred, you then just "trolly" around the character giving the impression of them walking through a space. Ofc, this means that the foot movements dont always match exactly with the distance covered, giving footslide. Some studios will use automated tools to correct for this after the fact, nudging the animation on the feet to compensate. Othertimes, not. A good (and well known) example is Monsters Inc... where the characters of Mike and Sully have very different leg lengths and walking gaits. In the shots where you see them walking side by side, their different stride lengths would cause them to move at different speeds, so instead, their feet are allowed to slide on the ground (no foot locking), because the "character" of the walk is more important. What you'll often notice, is that in these shots, the feet are either out of frame, so you cant see it happening, or, the camera is placed at a low angle so as your ability to perceive depth at the ground level is diminished, so you cant see the slide.

The other way, ofc, is to use IK legs, where you can easily keep the feet locked, enabling you to move a character within a space (rather than on the spot) more realistically. For working this way, FK legs are a nightmare bad enough to make you want to die a horrible, horrible death rather than do it ever again.

There's whole whole metric fecktonne of stuff to talk about with respect to these paractices, how different animation workflows suit different situations (or even individual artists), how rigs influence that, how the needs of animation influence rig design, etc, etc... there's a whole bunch of good stuff to start with here...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTds3QePYrWG56oTN-iKrZEEeAg4aph6m

and here...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTds3QePYrWEWipwKkLmyNT4Tf_JTigM2