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Pheidian
05-02-2019, 08:37 AM
Hi!

I'm wondering if anyone else has come accross this type of problem. I got my new Ryzen 2990wx, with GTX 1060, 32 Gigs ram, Asus X399-E Gaming mobo. Everything is running smooth and fast as lightning - except for lightwave...

If I have all 64 threads, and 32 cores active, and I start layout - open image editor - load image -> crash. Just quits to desktop. This happens on both Modeller and Layout, and sometimes loads image ok, but crash occurs every time when tweaking image contrast, gamma or any of the sliders. 100% crash every time.

Anyway, the "fun" part is here - all the problems go away, if I park 8 cores, and run my Ryzen with 24 cores and 48 threads. Why might this be? I'm using Kray2 for rendering, and I can render a test bench scene I made with 64 threads - Since it doesnt have any textures in it, just materials.

i would love to hear if anyone else is having the problem, or to let people know when working with 2015.3 or older, you probably won't get 100% out of your ryzen coz of this. To me, the solution of "go 2018 or 2019" is out of question since Kray2 doesn't support the new SDK.

The problem is annoying, and I'm just wondering if it could be related to something else in my system and not Ryzen. I've run different benchmarks and memtests etc and everything seems to be fine. I also don't have any crashes or problems with any other software.

Thanks guys!

Strider_X
05-03-2019, 08:32 AM
This is just from my own experience

This sounds like a problem with your CPU communicating across memory controllers . If your using 8 sticks of RAM or more you can improve stability by

- increasing the RAM voltage from stock 1.35 to 1.38 or more but not over 1.42. The RAM voltage is tied to the memory controller stability.

- Set the VDD_SoC Voltage from auto to something above 1.1 but not over 1.2. This can help stabilize communication in a system with large amounts of ram and helps with communication between cores and memory controllers

Running RAM above 2933MHz will require these adjustments and void the warranty on the CPU.

Pheidian
05-04-2019, 12:53 AM
Thanks! I am running 4 sticks of 8gb ram, 2666 MHz Kits, so not sure if that is the problem. Also No other program has any issues... Could it be that I have quite high latency ram (out specialist bought the components and they are not ryzen memory sticks but kingston valueram that is compatible with the mobo but not 100% sure about ryzen.

next_n00b
05-04-2019, 06:59 AM
First of all, I really don’t think my advise will solve the problem, but in such hopeless situations everything is worth a try. I would switch GTX with some kind of a professional GPU like Quadro and test again. In my experience, sometimes consumer GPUs do not work well with “exotic” CPU setups like yours. Not long ago, I threw away probably good working 2x8GB ECC RAM assuming it broken because the motherboard was occasionally reporting errors in a particular RAM slot. Only when it was too late to recover RAM I got that the errors were caused by GTX Pascal GPU. And in this HW setup Lightwave was especially vulnerable, crashed to the desktop almost immediately after all CPU cores began rendering.

next_n00b
05-04-2019, 07:05 AM
AND if I remember correctly, the crash thing went away if LW was using only 24 threads instead 32.... hmm.

Pheidian
05-06-2019, 03:18 AM
I haven't had yet a chance to change the graphics card, but I've tried other solutions and nothing is working currently. I'm kinda skeptical about the GTX being the problem, since there's no other issues other than LW 2015 crashing with textures. No flickering, stabile FPS on games, cinebench working, all GTX GPU benchmarks working like a charm... On the other hand I'm thinking maybe motherboard having some issues. I've had weird problem pop up when using cputemp monitoring. I leave the computer on, and I noticed my CPU temp spiked to 180 Celcius at some point. That cannot be, Idle it's running around 30-35 Celcius, and under hard long term stress (rendering) it's up to 65 Celcius tops. So I'm wondering what would cause the spike showing in the CPU temp "max temp" as 180 celcius? Maybe it's a bug in the monitor software, or maybe it's a bug in motherboard? Or maybe faulty CPU? No crashing or anything else, suspecting motherboard gives wrong temps or similar. I haven't witnessed the 180celcius my self, it happened during my computer being idle on desktop for around 30-50 minutes.

Sensei
05-06-2019, 03:27 AM
Try trial of LW 2018 and then trial LW 2019, just to see whether it crashes or not in exactly the same situation, like on LW 2015.3.
There is no sense answering "what it might be" if problem that you're experiencing is already solved by Newtek developers in newer LightWave version.

If it works with 48 threads, you must stay use 48 threads, and forget about 64 threads..

Pheidian
05-06-2019, 10:52 AM
2018 and 2019 work great. Also the cores and threads dont make sense since I have 72 thread dual xeon at the office (3 of them) and they have no problems. Also this problem is now confirmed with identical system from my co-worker. She has exact same system and producing same crash. Anyway, going from a point that I cannot currently go to 2018 or 2019 because Kray2 support is none. Would love to hear if any other 2990wx users have the same problem or does lw2015.3 work well In some, that might narrow it down. Its sad that it dont work, since its 10% faster than our almost double priced xeons at the office.

Oldcode
05-06-2019, 11:16 AM
AND if I remember correctly, the crash thing went away if LW was using only 24 threads instead 32.... hmm. AND if I remember correctly, the crash thing went away if LW was using only 24 threads instead 32.... hmm.

I just built an AMD Threadripper 1st Generation 1950x with 16 cores and 32 thread. I've had no trouble with Windows 10, Lightwave 2015.3. Have not tried 2019 yet.

Sensei
05-06-2019, 05:54 PM
2018 and 2019 work great. Also the cores and threads dont make sense since I have 72 thread dual xeon at the office (3 of them) and they have no problems. Also this problem is now confirmed with identical system from my co-worker. She has exact same system and producing same crash. Anyway, going from a point that I cannot currently go to 2018 or 2019 because Kray2 support is none. Would love to hear if any other 2990wx users have the same problem or does lw2015.3 work well In some, that might narrow it down. Its sad that it dont work, since its 10% faster than our almost double priced xeons at the office.

You can always run two instances of Layout or LWSN at the same time, with half of threads each set in the preferences. They will use full power of CPU together during final rendering.

Pheidian
05-06-2019, 11:32 PM
You can always run two instances of Layout or LWSN at the same time, with half of threads each set in the preferences. They will use full power of CPU together during final rendering.

Well the problem is, that if I run Ryzen with all threads active, and disable them in Lightwave or otherway (affinity) - it does not make any difference, crashes anyway.

gar26lw
05-07-2019, 03:11 AM
maybe related to:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance/windows-10-limits-max-number-32-of-threads-with/e3a47fc2-9547-4fea-b830-042a552f56a9

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/115000535804-Windows-10-audio-dropouts-on-multi-core-CPU-setups

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/283114-new-utility-can-double-amd-threadripper-2990wx-performance

next_n00b
05-07-2019, 04:25 AM
I just built an AMD Threadripper 1st Generation 1950x with 16 cores and 32 thread. I've had no trouble with Windows 10, Lightwave 2015.3. Have not tried 2019 yet.

My issues were all related to the buggy drivers for 1070Ti on win7 HP Z620. For more than a year I struggle with this GPU in dual Xeon setup. If I took 1 CPU out (CPU riser) than everything was fine. Prior to that everything was also fine with 1060 and dual Xeon (Both are Asus Strix). So I thought why not 1070Ti then, and that was a crash-fest. HP also recommends Quadro in their workstations. You better not even think about calling the support about some issues if you donít have Quadro in WS.

Sensei
05-07-2019, 06:20 PM
Well the problem is, that if I run Ryzen with all threads active, and disable them in Lightwave or otherway (affinity) - it does not make any difference, crashes anyway.

So when you said "activation of cores" you meant some Ryzen option, not LightWave options controlling multi-threading?

I think so you might be better kind of answers on some Ryzen forum.. Maybe people there experienced some kind of troubles with other software as well, and have ready solutions.

On Windows you can control on which CPUs each application in run using Task Manager > Set Affinity.
If you have set it to one it's also crashing? Two? etc.

Pheidian
05-07-2019, 11:20 PM
So when you said "activation of cores" you meant some Ryzen option, not LightWave options controlling multi-threading?

I think so you might be better kind of answers on some Ryzen forum.. Maybe people there experienced some kind of troubles with other software as well, and have ready solutions.

On Windows you can control on which CPUs each application in run using Task Manager > Set Affinity.
If you have set it to one it's also crashing? Two? etc.

Yes, and the really weird part is, what I forgot to mention, is that Ryzen has Simultaneous Multi Threading, which means that when it's on, 32 cores provide 64 threads. When it's off, you get only 32 cores and 32 threads. What makes it even more fancy, is Lightwave 2015.3 works without crashes if I turn off the SMT, so I have all 32 cores, but only 32 threads running. Also SMT is not the actual culprit, since I can run 24 cores with SMT on, having 48 threads. But If I have all 32 cores on, and SMT on, with 32 cores and 64 threads, the crash happens every time all the time.

pjp
07-08-2019, 04:14 AM
Hi. Yes I'm having similar issues all over the place with mine - random sporadic crashes in LW2015. I had ONE instance which seemed repeatable - it was a scene where the timeline scrub caused it for some reason. At the time I used Ryzen Master to half the cores and it seemed to sort it - then I set the cores back to full 32, tried the same scene and it was now fine. Also issues with cooling, lol - Started with Corasair AIO - couldn't cut full load - Swapped it for the Enermax v2 which has been consistently 68 deg under full load for about 4-5 months - now I'm hitting 98 over 10 frames worth. I've also done mem tests etc and everything seems fine. It's pre-built so it's going back to them asap. I've tried Ryzen Master. Currently using Bit Process Lasso to try and manage/help things but it is all distracting from what I'm supposed to be doing which is doing my head in now. I never wanted to be a pc enthusiast ffs! If I have any kind of solution I'll let you know, but right now I think I'd prefer to just change cpu. I don't have ANY of these issues on my 7yr old dual Xeon ws when I try and repeat the crashes.

Wireframex
07-08-2019, 07:40 AM
FYI no pb here with 2990WX - 2019.03 - 64 GB

145420

pjp
07-08-2019, 08:19 AM
Cheers. Updating to Win10 1903 now, thought it had done already tbh.. What cooler may I ask?

Free4Ever
07-10-2019, 09:52 AM
Yeah just a heads up from the Ryzen 9 3900x launch now, AMD is stating officially that Win 10 1903 has been updated for the Ryzen scheduling issues. May also help with the random compatibility issues on the older chips.


https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ryzen-9-3900x-7-3700x-review,6214-5.html

The new AMD-optimized Windows scheduler is only present in Windows 10 1903 and promises to expose gains in several types of applications...

pjp
07-10-2019, 10:00 AM
I want a 3990wx Black now anyway...lol - Seriously though, thanks, I have tried installing the 1903 update and it failed dut to the unrecognised CPU :) ... the day after it completely tanked and wouldn't run over 0.54Ghz.. So I think I must be experiencing a downside of the silicon lottery here. Not sure how it's going to turn out but it is currently winging it's way back to the vendors for repair, replacement or refund depending how it goes... maybe Epyc? I really don't want the same system back now - lost all confidence in it...

Free4Ever
07-10-2019, 10:06 AM
CorePrio is a tool that helps slow apps on 2990wx, maybe helps with LW2015 on older Windows too.

https://techgage.com/article/threadripper-2990wx-performance-coreprio/

pjp
07-10-2019, 10:10 AM
Yep got that - was using it with Bit Process lasso. Prio doesn't "take" every time though so it's difficult to know if it's it's helping or not tbh. Thanks again though - ultimately it's back with them now so if I get any worthwhile info I'll post it here.

Free4Ever
07-10-2019, 10:12 AM
Bummer pjp, guess its a mainbord issue. Good luck!

pjp
07-18-2019, 04:16 AM
Ok I have an update if anyone's interested;

"The event logs indicated 2 separate files to be corrupted.
The first file is a Lightwave file called 'tools.dll' which is located in 'C:\Program Files\NewTek\Lightwave_2015.2\bin\tools.dll'.
The second file is a Windows file called 'ntdll.dll' which is located in 'C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll'.

We are confident that these files are the cause of the Lightwave crash the errors pointing to these files are logged the exact moment that Lightwave crashes/closes.
In a previous email, you mentioned that you have also had issues trying to update Windows to 1903, which is likely caused by the corrupted 'ntdll.dll' file so we believe that this issue with the OS and Lightwave would be solved by reinstalling the operating system and applications."

..So that's what we're doing, fingers crossed it works. Oh, Enermax have said that there were some bad v2 batches which didn't contain biocide - again, fingers crossed on the replacement AIO. Maybe this info will help someone els

Cheers
Paul