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cagey5
04-26-2019, 08:33 AM
I've decidedly to take the leap into 3d printing as the price has dropped to something reasonable so I have a couple of questions.
How good is Lightwave for producing the models. Are there any gotchas I need to worry about.
Does anyone have any experience with this model?
https://m.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_725108.html?wid=1433363&currency=GBP&vip=4264395&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImfLxm_zt4QIVl-d3Ch1IngkoEAQYAiABEgLUavD_BwE

Bill Carey
04-26-2019, 10:57 AM
It looks exactly like the Creality 10S
https://www.creality3d.shop/collections/3d-printer/products/creality-cr-10s-diy-desktop-3d-printer-300x300x400mm
which has a great reputation. I went with the ender 3, smaller version which I've had great luck with.

Lightwave works great for the modeling, I've had no issues bringing things into Cura for slicing. The usual things apply, make sure rounder doesn't overlap points etc., freeze the subpatches before exporting. I'm not at my computer, but there a third party .stl exporter that is simpler to get the scaling correct with, I'll try to add the link later.

Also get the free version of netfab, checks the model and has a simple repair if there is something wrong with it.

Seeing your designs come to life before your eyes is addictive, you've been warned. :)

cagey5
04-26-2019, 11:07 AM
I can imagine. Hopefully it'll get me modelling again as well. Something I'm having difficulty finding the time for. So hopefully this will generate some projects.
Have you tried various plastic types, and if so which have you had most luck with.

Thanks for your response btw

erikals
04-26-2019, 12:18 PM
i often check Youtube reviews,

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=TEVO+Tornado

cagey5
04-26-2019, 12:55 PM
Me too. But I'd rather have direct feedback from people that use Lightwave.
Lmgtfy. Thanks.

Greenlaw
04-26-2019, 08:39 PM
LightWave is fine for 3D printing. You just need to make sure the object is tripled, completely sealed, doesn't contain junk geometry, and doesn't have manifold surfaces (i.e., penetrating polygons.)

My typical workflow is to block out my object in Modeler, send it to 3D Coat as a voxel object so I can sculpt the details, re-mesh it, and send the mesh back to Modeler for finishing. If there are any errors in the object, it's usually pretty easy to fix in Modeler. When it's done, save the object as an .stl and print it.

All my experience has been with a Form 1+ printer but I'm thinking of getting a Makerbot Mini+. The Form 1+ has been an awesome printer and the quality is amazing. I got in with the original Form 1 Kickstarter campaign years ago when the desktop stereo-lithography tech was still very experimental. But this printer is also a bit expensive to keep up, and I think I want something simpler and less expensive now. Will post if I decide to get the Mini+.

Bill Carey
04-27-2019, 01:44 PM
I can imagine. Hopefully it'll get me modelling again as well. Something I'm having difficulty finding the time for. So hopefully this will generate some projects.
Have you tried various plastic types, and if so which have you had most luck with.

I've only used PLA at this point, PTEG is next. ABS is when you start needing an enclosure and has various opinions on it's toxicity in enclosed areas.

That .stl exporter is mentioned here....
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?159257-STL-export-for-printing&highlight=stl+exporter

I've never bother to triple before exporting, has worked fine so far. If you decide to use Cura, it takes .obj files directly but doesn't like Lightwaves.


Thanks for your response btw

Anytime.

Greenlaw:
I'm insanely jealous of that Form 1, really nice prints from those SL machines!

erikals
04-27-2019, 03:39 PM
sure would like the Form 1,

i found a halfway solution though, a print service...
https://www.shapeways.com

Greenlaw
04-27-2019, 05:17 PM
The original Form 1 from the Kickstarter campaign was kind of a 'work in progress'...I went through three of the units but Form Labs improved the units and replaced them free each time. That encouraged me to upgrade to the Form 1+ when it came out, which is what I have now.

Yes, the print quality is amazing! Much higher than what you get with FDM printers.

The one downside has been that the liquid resin can be expensive and it has a shelf life of about a year. Also, my particular model is no longer supported by Form Labs, the company having moved on to higher-end industrial customers. I'm not bitter about that but, yeah, they pretty much priced me out of their market.

Anyway, that's why I'm looking into getting a simpler but decent FDM printer now, like the MakerBot Replicator Mini+. Anybody have an opinion about this model or have another recommendations?

pinkmouse
04-28-2019, 01:32 AM
Depends on what you want, there are certainly better printers than the Mini+ out there, functionality wise, you're paying for the brand name, not features. I'd be looking at the Prusa i3, (and/or Lulzbot range as you're in the States), if you do lots of stuff that needs easily removable supports, then the BCN3D Sigma IDEX printers with dual heads, ( one for body material, one for PVA support) area good bet, or if you want cheap and cheerful, but are willing to spend time tweaking then the Creality Ender3 or for a huge build volume, the Creality CR10. If throughput is important, you could get two or three CR10s, or half a dozen Ender 3s for the same money as the Mini+.

Greenlaw
04-28-2019, 02:45 AM
Thanks pinkmouse! Your post gives me a bit to think about.

I'm mainly looking for very good quality prints, reliability and as little fussing as possible. The reviews I read for the mini+ seemed to fit what I'm looking for, and I also liked the idea of the built-in camera so I can monitor the progress from my phone. Yeah, I know that's gimmicky but, hey... :)

I agree, MakerBot is a bit pricey though, so I'm definitely looking at your suggestions and will compare.

pinkmouse
04-28-2019, 03:23 AM
The lads upstairs in R&D have a standard Replicator, and it's okay quality wise. The branded slicer isn't wonderful, has some issues with infill and top/bottom layers, but you can download Cura for free to sort that out. It also insists on printing everything on a raft, which, these days, is just a waste of material, but Cura would probably solve that as well. You do get decent support from Makerbot if stuff ever goes wrong, but a lot of spares are proprietary and expensive once that warranty runs out. They also "suggest" you only use their branded filament as well if you want to keep your guarantee, and that is another added cost, wheras the machines I mentioned don't have that lock-in.

Cameras are fun, and I'm looking at implementing them on my new home-built IDEX printer, but can also open up huge security holes in a network, so if it's at work, be aware!

Bill Carey
04-28-2019, 05:03 AM
Depends on what you want, there are certainly better printers than the Mini+ out there, functionality wise, you're paying for the brand name, not features. I'd be looking at the Prusa i3, (and/or Lulzbot range as you're in the States), if you do lots of stuff that needs easily removable supports, then the BCN3D Sigma IDEX printers with dual heads, ( one for body material, one for PVA support) area good bet, or if you want cheap and cheerful, but are willing to spend time tweaking then the Creality Ender3 or for a huge build volume, the Creality CR10. If throughput is important, you could get two or three CR10s, or half a dozen Ender 3s for the same money as the Mini+.

Of those I'd look at the Prusa I3. Better mechanics than the creality machines, but a bit higher cost. I like the dual Z screws in particular and the short feed, better for soft filaments. Friend has one, pretty impressed. Lulzbot is pretty pricey for a hobby.

cagey5
04-28-2019, 07:47 AM
For a web cam monitor I saw one review where he just used a raspberry pi with a camera plugged into a usb port. Looked very simple and something I'll look to implement too.

pinkmouse
04-28-2019, 08:05 AM
For a web cam monitor I saw one review where he just used a raspberry pi with a camera plugged into a usb port. Looked very simple and something I'll look to implement too.

Yeah, search Octoprint. Does a lot more than just a camera.

Ryan Roye
04-28-2019, 01:17 PM
I own a 10S creality and I have no complaints with its performance. Typically I print things that are hard or impossible to find in a store. IE: a plastic part for a broken earphone on my headset, or a hook specifically sized to hold a specific object, a case for my pocket pc, marker holders that mount in a specific area, plant meshes that fit a specific pot, etc.

In the long run, a 3d printer and a well-knowledged user of it will eventually recoup their investment.

jwiede
04-28-2019, 01:48 PM
Me too. But I'd rather have direct feedback from people that use Lightwave.
Lmgtfy. Thanks.

I've tried most filament types at this point. I tend to do a lot of early form work with HTPLA or ABS, and that's the majority I use, but also have a wide-array of stuff like HTPLA with carbon fibre, stainless, iron, etc. for special surfaces, various "soft"/"flex" filaments, etc.

If that's a bowden-style extruder setup, you'll probably have issues with "soft"/"flex" filaments, those work better with direct-drive extruders in general. Most of the rest don't care, but some of the filaments with compounding (carbon fibre, etc.) can be quite brittle, so you'll want to ensure there aren't sharp curves between the extruder and hotend if using those.

If you have specific questions, I can probably answer. I've used Nylon and Taulman Glass and others as well, but find them rather finicky, esp. nylon-based ones, tend to dribble/string a lot until you have the temp and feed settings dialed in perfectly.

cagey5
04-28-2019, 03:18 PM
Thanks for that. I'll probably be back with questions!
I'll probably place my order tomorrow then count the days until it arrives. How hard-wearing is the ABS?

Greenlaw
04-28-2019, 05:17 PM
I own a 10S creality and I have no complaints with its performance.
Just glanced at the specs: 500mm...over 19-inches??? Is that correct? If so, that's amazing.

Is the 10S able to maintain correct proportions at that size?

erikals
04-29-2019, 03:36 AM
seems cool,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95VdUBwPhQg

Greenlaw
04-29-2019, 10:13 AM
Thanks for posting that Erikals! The video answered some of my questions about print quality at that size.

I'm not surprised that the print had the defects pointed out in the video but, man, that's still very cool to be able print at that scale. And it's a lot cheaper than the Mini+ I've been thinking about.

Guess I need to decide what I really want to use the new printer for. Quality and level of detail is going to be a bigger selling point for me but I know I'm not going to find a replacement for the Form in that department. If I can find something close-ish in quality that's cheaper to use, I'll be happy. Hmm...I'm going to need to do much better research on what's available these days.

In any case, I was informed yesterday that I'm not getting another printer until I clean out the garage. Sigh! I better get to it before L.A.'s sweltering summer arrives. :)

pinkmouse
04-29-2019, 12:07 PM
Right. here's my solution:

Spend $150 on an Ender 3. Print quality is almost identical to the CR 10, and not far off the mini+, so you can assess if you want to go down the FDM route at all. If you decide it is, then get a CR10, and then mod the Ender with smaller nozzle and whatever else you can be bothered with get quality up for smaller models, and have the CR10 for epic constructions.

If you get the ender and find you do hate FDM, then you've only lost 10% of the price of the mini+. Then save up a bit more and get the Prusa SL1 (https://www.prusa3d.com)

But first... "Tidy that bl***y garage!" "D

erikals
04-29-2019, 12:13 PM
i've yet to assemble my $200 Anet A6,
it has a resolution of 75 micron, alright.
for higher resolution, i'll just use Shapeways.

if i were to go for a large scale 3D printer now, it probably be
TEVO Tornado - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxmk8PXgwdM
• 300 x 300 x 400
• 40 micron resolution
• slightly cheaper than the Creality CR-10S

more large scale printers >
https://all3dp.com/1/best-large-3d-printer-large-format-scale-3d-printers

pinkmouse
04-29-2019, 12:53 PM
Put this on in the background next time you're near the computer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EdZeodW5qo

Tom's a proper engineer, not just an internet "celebrity"

Greenlaw
04-29-2019, 01:35 PM
BTW, even though FormLabs no longer supports the Form 1+ or sells consumables for the printer, there's still some life left for my old Form 1+.

One of the more expensive consumables is the resin tray, which needs to be replaced every so often because the optically clear silicon coating at the bottom wears out. At almost $70 for a new tray, it was just a bit much for me. Then a clever user figured out how to manufacture a replacement tray made of optically clear glass with user-replaceable silicon coating. The Z-Vat tray (http://www.zvatindustries.com/) is even coated with UV blocking tint on the sides and has a re-sealable cover so you can store and swap trays to use different resins. I got one of these trays last year but haven't used it yet (I stocked up on official trays before FormLabs sold out of them, and I still have a couple left.) I'm thinking of trying out the Z-Vat soon...will post how that goes.

For resin, the last time I purchased from FormLabs it came in cartridges because that's what the newer printers use. It's a little weird to have to pour from cartridges instead of a proper bottle. And the resin is still pretty expensive. I found third party sources for compatible resins though which are a bit cheaper. Will give that a try and let you now how it goes.

Edit: Wait, now I'm not sure about the re-sealable cover for Z-Vat 1. I might be thinking of the official Form 1+ tray for that feature. Oh, well...Saran Wrap should work fine if I keep it stored in the dark.

Imageshoppe
04-29-2019, 02:12 PM
I own a CR-10, Ender 2, and setup an Ender 3 for a friend. I would also recommend an Ender 3 for your "starter" printer.

I really enjoy printing and making things for my camera gear or other projects. This is a hobby/craft/science for those willing to experiment, and don't mind making mistakes and retrying things until they work.

Currently I'm fulfilling a 30 year dream and printing a 100" long studio scale Enterprise Refit from Star Trek:The Motion Picture. After printing, I'll hand finish and clean it up until there's no trace of layers and pull molds for Epoxy/glass shells of all the major elements.

144847 144848 144849

As example, the engine nacelles are printed in 4 sections, with a total print time of 212 hours/nacelle. The different colors are the batch variations with the filament I'm using, and I switched to the "pla +" version which was yet another color change. Won't matter after the sanding, primer, auto-body putty phases.

I used Lightwave for all the part design, and all original model elements are based off the best plans available and careful photogrammetry with an eye to working with printer limitations.

Greenlaw
04-29-2019, 02:52 PM
Beautiful work! Thanks for sharing.

erikals
04-29-2019, 02:53 PM
Greenlaw, a $500 alternative,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar2jcRlGTo

Imageshoppe... Awesome! :king:  hey, what about a Youtube video also?  https://i.imgur.com/bcwLfNX.gif

Imageshoppe
04-29-2019, 03:21 PM
Greenlaw, a $500 alternative,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar2jcRlGTo

Imageshoppe... Awesome! :king:  hey, what about a Youtube video also?  https://i.imgur.com/bcwLfNX.gif

Thanks all... you can see that these printers (if properly adjusted of course) have good dimensional accuracy... my 46.5" diameter saucer printed in 16 wedges forms a perfect circle, and that's with the sections printed on edge, and on two different printers (the outer ring and the inner one)!

http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/ENTERPRISE/WIP_VIDEOS/SAUCER_UNDER_DUAL_PRINTING.mp4

In general, I wouldn't worry too much about "pimping" these printers with crazy add-ons and third party this and that... if properly adjusted and tuned, they work fine as designed. My original CR-10 with one lead screw has no layer or wobble issues to the full 15" of printing height. There's a few useful parts you can print once you get the printer, fan ducts and the like, but hey, they do sort of work as advertised. :)

And yes, there will be a pretty detailed build video set on the whole process; the printing, the finishing, silicon molding and the casting along with the aluminum armature creation...

On the link... I'm getting the Anycubic Photon very soon (actually the brand new Photon s) for printing some of the fine detail sections and the interior spaces... really looking forward to working with all that increased detail...

Greenlaw
04-29-2019, 03:30 PM
Greenlaw, a $500 alternative,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar2jcRlGTo

Cool! Thanks for the link. It's amazing how affordable SLA is becoming.

I think my original Form 1 cost almost $2300 during the Kickstarter campaign way back in 2012 or so. At the time, that price was considered 'groundbreaking' for the technology. What a difference 7 years makes!

All this talk has got me excited about 3D printing with the Form 1+ again. I just ordered some third-party resin from ApplyLabWorks (https://3dprint.com/185038/applylabwork-3d-printing-resins/). Definitely cheaper ($70/liter) and they don't even charge for shipping.

I got the tan resin. Will post how it works out for me in a few days.

Greenlaw
04-29-2019, 03:45 PM
Ok, I have to admit it's been a while since I last used the Form. If the printer still works great with the third party stuff, then there's not much point in looking for the highest print quality with FDM.

In which case, I will seriously consider the 10S. I can see this printer being useful for making costume parts and props. My daughter and I can totally get into that. Might still try Ender 3 first as Pink Mouse suggested since I don't have much experience with FDM...TBD.

But, yeah, I know...the garage first. :)

Imageshoppe
04-30-2019, 10:18 PM
While discussing big space ship miniatures, I have to share a video I shot and just finished editing for a friend who scratch-built a near perfect copy of the 5' wide Millennium Falcon from the original Star Wars...

https://youtu.be/GpzW3t2wzXM

Sean's model work is certainly my inspiration, and many of the techniques he talks about (and the thinking behind them) in the video have direct analogies to CG modeling.

I know this is off topic, but since I already mentioned my big Enterprise, I'm shoehorning it into this thread anyway... :)