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Gungho3D
04-15-2019, 07:03 AM
Don't get me wrong: I love using Premiere and AE and PS at work just thinking my personal subscription is not really earning its keep at home.

Wondering if anyone else has either made this move or can offer guidance regards what is good and what to avoid.

So I have in mind solid products (wanting to avoid "free"), so far at the top of my list is
1. Hitfilm Pro/Studio - https://fxhome.com/hitfilm-studio
2. Affinity Photo - https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

Thoughts anyone? and please, no "there is a great video editor in Blender 3D" :D

04-15-2019, 07:13 AM
Look at DogWaffle. I'm having enough fun with it to get a ten-pack for my class.
https://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/

Affinity products look slick enough. But dogwaffle is by a Lwer so I am supporting his efforts.
Robert

raymondtrace
04-15-2019, 08:37 AM
The best competitor to Adobe CC is Adobe CS6. I'm still looking for a reason why I should stop using CS6. I don't use the alternatives much but I have purchased Dogwaffle/Howler and Affiinity products.

Blackmagic Davinci Resolve (with Fusion) is unavoidably free, or in a paid edition.

There's also plenty of good stuff in the GPL realm... like Krita, Darktable, RAWTherapee, Shotcut, kdenlive, Natron, etc. These do not need to be "free". There's nothing stopping anyone from donating. I'm not sure what the avoidance of "free" means. These GPL apps are more importantly free to do what you want (free to modify as much as you want), rather than just free to obtain.

Bitboy
04-15-2019, 08:40 AM
I would go for Davinci Resolve instead of Hitfilm. It's a much better product in many areas and definitely would be my choice instead. I have an older Hitfilm Pro license and with Hitfilm you have to pay repeatedly for upgrades, which is not the case for Davinci Resolve. One time purchase and future updates are free. :)

And the licensed version of Resolve has HW accelleration for RAW, H.264/H.265 and other codecs which the free version doesn't do, among other things.

And I can only recommend Affinity products. They are a no brainer, especially in regards to features and price.

ianr
04-15-2019, 09:01 AM
I agreed with Bitboy, look a this glitzy walk through 4 ReZolve 16


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ZXKXgxkm4

ernesttx
04-15-2019, 09:39 AM
It depends on what level you are wanting to be at with software at home. Will you be using it at professional or hobby type level?

My thoughts would be with Resolve for editing and effects. I moved over to Resolve a few years back and haven't looked back. I also have Fusion16 (been using since fusion 5). I have Hitfilm Pro and it's been getting better (version 12 sped things up) but I primarily use it for its built in effects if I need something mocked up quickly (clouds, fire, etc.) Hitfilm has Mocha Pro plugin and announced at NAB 2019, will be getting Nuke's camera tracker sometime down the line (maybe end of this year) and it will be able to open some (recent) AE plugins.

Paintwise, I agree Affinity is a no brainer at the price. But, then again, I'm still using Mirage to paint and edit some things haha But lots of choices from the open source areas too.

Ma3rk
04-15-2019, 10:33 AM
I would go for Davinci Resolve instead of Hitfilm. It's a much better product in many areas and definitely would be my choice instead. I have an older Hitfilm Pro license and with Hitfilm you have to pay repeatedly for upgrades, which is not the case for Davinci Resolve. One time purchase and future updates are free. :)

And the licensed version of Resolve has HW accelleration for RAW, H.264/H.265 and other codecs which the free version doesn't do, among other things.

And I can only recommend Affinity products. They are a no brainer, especially in regards to features and price.

Pretty much the same with the BMD products as well, not to mention having a lot more R&D horsepower.

I picked up Affinity Photo last year when Photoshop was having issues with EXR files.

OlaHaldor
04-15-2019, 11:34 AM
Davinci Resolve for all editing, audio and color post. I'm not sure you can *replace* AE with Fusion if you intend to use it for motion graphics though. It's quite different, and will require a different thought process and more work to get to the same result.
That said; if you're looking to replace AE for compositing, there's nothing better than a node based compositor. It's much more flexible.


Here's a GEM of information I just read about today; if you have a USB dongle license for Davinci Resolve, you can, as of now, use it with Fusion Studio 16. That's right! No need to purchase Fusion Studio separately! CRAZY!!

Affinity Photo (and Designer! It's a GREAT alternative to Illustrator) is good for the most part, but channel handling is quite off. If you require TGA export, that's also a big downside to both of them, and has been for many years, even though we're many users who have been requesting, nagging and kicking and screaming for TGA support since 2016, and even earlier. This may not be a deal breaker for you, just wanted to shed some light on it just in case.

About the channel handling in Photo. It sucks. You don't have a discrete alpha channel like you're used to in Photoshop. Instead each channel has transparency, which is quite confusing, coming from Photoshop... So I keep Photoshop around for these tasks.

If you rely on Photoshop to do batch job of something, you'll be disappointed. There's no simple way to do the same type of batch operations like in Photoshop unfortunately.

Ma3rk
04-15-2019, 12:18 PM
If you rely on Photoshop to do batch job of something, you'll be disappointed. There's no simple way to do the same type of batch operations like in Photoshop unfortunately.

Which is what it was originally developed for ironically. Visited a friend many, many years ago when he was at a little place up in Marin called The Kernner Co. He had an effect shot running on a early Mac stepping through a series of stills doing some blue screen extraction of some shot for "Memoirs of the Invisible Man". The script running was a beta of Photoshop they'd developed in house. Didn't get to meet John Knoll but always kept that memory knowing I'd witnessed the first inclining of the digital revolution to come.

paulk
04-15-2019, 01:10 PM
The best competitor to Adobe CC is Adobe CS6.

But where can someone get it?

Oddly enough, all the Adult Ed computer graphics courses im my neck of the woods use Adobe CS6.

raymondtrace
04-15-2019, 01:40 PM
But where can someone get it?...

Well whippersnapper, you need to be old enough to have bought it in 2012...and to have had the noggin to know that what was coming next was going to be much worse. :)

Thank goodness that in 2019, the CTRL-Z key in Photoshop has now been mapped to "step backward" by default. A decade ago, we had to set that shortcut preference ourselves!

paulk
04-15-2019, 01:45 PM
Well whippersnapper, you need to be old enough to have bought it in 2012...and to have had the noggin to know that what was coming next was going to be much worse. :)

Thank goodness that in 2019, the CTRL-Z key in Photoshop has now been mapped to "step backward" by default. A decade ago, we had to set that shortcut preference ourselves!

Whippersnapper, my foot! I've got PhotoShop 7.0 in the original box!! Now get off my lawn!!!

Qexit
04-15-2019, 03:05 PM
Whippersnapper, my foot! I've got PhotoShop 7.0 in the original box!! Now get off my lawn!!!Whistles quietly :)

144755

Bitboy
04-15-2019, 05:37 PM
Here's the thread regarding using the Davinci Resolve USB dongle with Fusion 16 (just so it's confirmed):

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=88950

BigHache
04-15-2019, 07:36 PM
Geez you guys are young. ;)
I started using Photoshop 2.5, before they introduced layers and you had to do all compositing in channels. You kids never had it so good.

Ztreem
04-16-2019, 12:14 AM
Geez you guys are young. ;)
I started using Photoshop 2.5, before they introduced layers and you had to do all compositing in channels. You kids never had it so good.

Remember that LW is coming from the Amiga and Photoshop is PC/Mac.

Rayek
04-16-2019, 01:23 AM
Photoshop? Pfwah! I used to do all my graphics work with Deluxe Paint (I, II, III, and IV) on the Amiga. And before that KoalaPaint and the Koala Pad (stone age early Wacom) on the C64:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXi1WSSfHw

I must have been 13 or 14 when I first used a 'graphics tablet' (Koala Pad). I don't think many here can beat that! :-)

I feel old now... :D

Back on track:

I moved away from Adobe products for my work quite a few years ago. My current weapons of choice are:

PhotoLine (general image editing, vector editing, small DTP tasks)
NIK collection and FilterForge plugins which work without issues in PhotoLine
InkScape (vector editing)
Krita and ClipStudio EX (digital drawing/inking/painting)
DaVinci Resolve (video editing and Fusion for effects)
3d Coat (3d painting, Photoshop is terrible for this)
OpenToonz (for general animation tasks, GIF production, Flash/AnimateCC replacement)
ProMotion NG (layer based indexed image mode pixel art, awesome replacement for Photoshop's weak index colour mode, spiritual successor to Deluxe Paint)

I also have Affinity Photo, but find it incredibly clunky and rather limited in most areas compared to PhotoLine, excepting the focus stacking, panorama stitching, and HDR generation. I use GIMP as a sort of plugin to PhotoLine, and for some specialized channel jobs (unfortunately PhotoLine's channels are rather similar to Affinity Photo).

This lineup of software works great for me. Better than all the Adobe software in my opinion, with the exception of InDesign: I haven't found a good replacement for InDesign, and I still use InDesign CS6 or sometimes take out a month of rent to be able to use it for client work.

I am awaiting Affinity Publisher, which looks good so far.

I have to say that I LOVE working in PhotoLine. Most underestimated image editor in the history of image editing. It actually outperforms Photoshop in a number of key areas.

Gungho3D
04-16-2019, 05:44 AM
Far out what great feedback! Plus sounds like a line-up of guys with many valuable flight hours on the clock :D

----------

It's beginning to look like a Resolve + Fusion outcome regards a video/compositing solution.

For Affinity, the issue with channels not being like PS is probably a deal breaker.

One other option in mind has been to dial down the subscription to PS only still thinking about that one.

About avoiding "free" - I'm the first guy who knows just how good some of that sw can be (just look at Blender's 3D capability), I'm just PC/Win bound and not convinced there's something in the free category which can match what the big boys do but I am open to hearing otherwise.

WRT professional/hobbyist use - home is for tinkering with art and ideas, but what I am gunning for regards tools is capability at a justifiable price point - which means the total Adobe suite rental is a little overkill

Qexit
04-16-2019, 06:14 AM
As a hobby user these days, it is several years since I last earned any money in this field, my toolkit is largely determined by what I can afford. I do take advantage of bargains from time to time to give me access to some of the latest features, e.g. I signed up to the Unreal Engine Beta test programme last year so have a full version of Unreal 4.21 that I can continue to use indefinitely though moving to UE 4.22 may end my beta subscription. My toolkit includes:

Adobe CS2 which gives me Photoshop 9.0. It is a little creaky, to put it mildly, so I've been looking at either Affinity Photo or possibly Project Dogwaffle as both are affordable.
3D Coat. I bought into this quite early on and keep it updated as it is an excellent package and I could not afford to change to Z-Brush
Fusion 9.02. It meets my limited editing and compositing needs which is great as it was a free package. I may look at adding the free version of Resolve 16 in the near future as Fusion is now purchase only.

Unfortunately, my 5 year old Lightwave PC is in need of replacement so that is my current priority with regard to spending money in the next few months.

prometheus
04-16-2019, 07:06 AM
Inkscape and krita for illustrator and photoshop replacement, good for personal work, but...if you aim towards business work here in sweden, that wont do..they look for canditates that have adobe series skills...a lot.

Rayek
04-16-2019, 08:19 AM
About avoiding "free" - I'm the first guy who knows just how good some of that sw can be (just look at Blender's 3D capability), I'm just PC/Win bound and not convinced there's something in the free category which can match what the big boys do … but I am open to hearing otherwise.



Aside from Blender, the open source Krita is another notable exception. It is one of the best digital painting/drawing packages on the market, no matter free or not.

It is also the first drawing package to bring HDR painting to Windows (but this requires a HDR monitor).

erikals
04-16-2019, 08:58 AM
PhotoLine might be an option, sometimes better than PhotoShop

(i do pixel painting often where PhotoShop excels, if it wasn't for that, maybe i'd be using all PhotoLine, not impossible)

https://www.pl32.com

https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoLineSoftware/videos

Rayek
04-16-2019, 09:20 AM
PhotoLine might be an option, sometimes better than PhotoShop

(i do pixel painting often where PhotoShop excels, if it wasn't for that, maybe i'd be using all PhotoLine, not impossible)

https://www.pl32.com

https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoLineSoftware/videos

The newest betas have a new pixel precise mode and a pixel grid view. The developers are also beginning to improve the outdated drawing tools, with much better support for Wacom tablets.

But no direct selecting and moving of pixels as of yet (which I know you would like to see). Also no indexed image mode.

Which is why I use ProMotion NG for pixel art work - indexed mode, full layer support (why can't Photoshop deal with layers in indexed image mode or 1bit image mode?). excellent pixel edit tools.

erikals
04-16-2019, 09:47 AM
ProMotion NG
cool app :)

prometheus
04-16-2019, 12:23 PM
I forgot to mention, I have used Krita and Inkscape at my current work (administrator, webeditor ..and much more)
For correcting Logos, and for photoretouching of some of our products, Krita is a bit slow in that regards when dealing with large images and photoretouching, but I did like the way you can draw paths and edit those before committing to selection layers and before deleting backgrounds that are excluded with that selection.

If you need a lot of text editing in your bitmap images and also text effects, then Krita isnt for you..in fact I think it s horrible compared to photoshop for that stuff.
But for painting artistic concept stuff..Krita over photoshop.

Inkscape is quite slow to start but have some really cool stuff in there, but it lacks a crucial function ..which is the filleting straight path corners, I think it is under development right now though, and some workarounds to fix it..perhaps even a plugin for it, not sure.

paulk
04-16-2019, 12:57 PM
What about Gimp?

https://www.gimp.org/

Rayek
04-16-2019, 01:06 PM
I forgot to mention, I have used Krita and Inkscape at my current work (administrator, webeditor ..and much more)
For correcting Logos, and for photoretouching of some of our products, Krita is a bit slow in that regards when dealing with large images and photoretouching, but I did like the way you can draw paths and edit those before committing to selection layers and before deleting backgrounds that are excluded with that selection.

If you need a lot of text editing in your bitmap images and also text effects, then Krita isnt for you..in fact I think it s horrible compared to photoshop for that stuff.
But for painting artistic concept stuff..Krita over photoshop.

Inkscape is quite slow to start but have some really cool stuff in there, but it lacks a crucial function ..which is the filleting straight path corners, I think it is under development right now though, and some workarounds to fix it..perhaps even a plugin for it, not sure.

I agree, text editing, while somewhat improved in the latest version, is... extremely clunky to say the very least. But hey, at least it is live text! ;-P

erikals
04-16-2019, 04:53 PM
Inkscape is quite slow to start
yup to that :)


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngWhat about Gimp?    https://www.gimp.org/
haven't used it much, heard good things about it though. certainly an alternative to look into.

sadkkf
04-17-2019, 07:16 AM
FWIW, Affinity Photo is compatible with a lot of PS plugins.

Rayek
04-18-2019, 08:08 AM
FWIW, Affinity Photo is compatible with a lot of PS plugins.

As is PhotoLine - even more compatible than Affinity Photo is currently, in my experience. And PhotoLine supports live Photoshop plugins as well, which Affinity lacks. For example, the NIK plugins can be applied as live non-destructive filters in PhotoLine.

Mainly because Affinity does not have an equivalent for smart objects. This is also the reason why almost any filter/effect in PhotoLine can be made non-destructive, if needed.

Btw, the latest betas of PL add official support for the G'MIC set of filters (via the Paint.net version).
https://gmic.eu/

Chris S. (Fez)
04-18-2019, 09:24 AM
Affinity layers behave like Smart Objects by default, at least in terms of resolution and nondestructive filters and adjustment layers.

sadkkf
04-19-2019, 09:36 AM
As is PhotoLine - even more compatible than Affinity Photo is currently, in my experience. And PhotoLine supports live Photoshop plugins as well, which Affinity lacks. For example, the NIK plugins can be applied as live non-destructive filters in PhotoLine.

Mainly because Affinity does not have an equivalent for smart objects. This is also the reason why almost any filter/effect in PhotoLine can be made non-destructive, if needed.

Btw, the latest betas of PL add official support for the G'MIC set of filters (via the Paint.net version).
https://gmic.eu/

Well, that's cool. Until this thread I hadn't heard of PhotoLine, but now I'll need to look into it. Thanks!

Rayek
04-19-2019, 12:29 PM
Well, that's cool. Until this thread I hadn't heard of PhotoLine, but now I'll need to look into it. Thanks!

Be forewarned that the default GUI and workspace settings a rather awkward, in my opinion. It is very configurable, though. I changed the colourful icons to the new simple ones (latest betas which can be downloaded in the beta users section of the forum), and changed the overall GUI to a lighter colour.

Workspaces (panel layouts) can be created as well.

The documentation is okay, if sparse, and hardly any tutorials exist. The bane of any beginner PhotoLine user, I am afraid. My intention is to create a range of good tutorials for PL, but I just have to find the time. Work and life are so busy at the moment.

sadkkf
04-21-2019, 06:52 AM
Be forewarned that the default GUI and workspace settings a rather awkward, in my opinion. It is very configurable, though. I changed the colourful icons to the new simple ones (latest betas which can be downloaded in the beta users section of the forum), and changed the overall GUI to a lighter colour.

Workspaces (panel layouts) can be created as well.

The documentation is okay, if sparse, and hardly any tutorials exist. The bane of any beginner PhotoLine user, I am afraid. My intention is to create a range of good tutorials for PL, but I just have to find the time. Work and life are so busy at the moment.

I noticed that, too. Downloaded it the other day and immediately thought it was designed by a programmer. I'm glad it's configurable, though. That may save it.

Bitboy
04-25-2019, 12:45 AM
If you rely on Photoshop to do batch job of something, you'll be disappointed. There's no simple way to do the same type of batch operations like in Photoshop unfortunately.

That is not true. Batch mode in Affinity Photo uses recorded macros like Photoshop does, and it even runs in parallel, which means more images processes quicker. So same same with a few different options.

Philbert
04-25-2019, 01:51 AM
Don't get me wrong: I love using Premiere and AE and PS at work just thinking my personal subscription is not really earning its keep at home.

Wondering if anyone else has either made this move or can offer guidance regards what is good and what to avoid.

1. Hitfilm Pro/Studio - https://fxhome.com/hitfilm-studio


I've been using HitFilm Express for several years for all of my YouTube videos and some other things. I frankly love it and have made a few tutorials on using it. One thing I really like with Express is that it's free but you can buy add-ons that cover almost everything in the Pro version so if you don't need everything in Pro you don't have to pay for it. They just announced some really cool stuff coming soon too. First we'll soon be able to use all of the plugins from After Effects and second, the Foundry's camera tracker is being added. Currently I have the Mocha HitFilm plugin (and Mocha Pro) which has a camera tracker but is really only good in certain shots. The Foundry one should be a huge deal.
https://youtu.be/0DYVwfzKlH0

OlaHaldor
04-25-2019, 02:20 AM
That is not true. Batch mode in Affinity Photo uses recorded macros like Photoshop does, and it even runs in parallel, which means more images processes quicker. So same same with a few different options.

That's a surprise to me. Perhaps it's hidden in a menu I've not found or thought of as useful then. :stumped:
A pleasant surprise, I'll add.



On the other hand, I've noticed Affinity Designer and Photo have insanely terrible performance with the new computer I built, with a Threadripper 2920x. On the i7 there wasn't a hitch, but on the Threadripper the cursor lags so bad it's unusable. I hope it's a thing that can be fixed either on my end, or that Affinity can do some magic on their end.

I googled a bit and found others have similar problems, even with previous generation Threadripper. So it's not a new phenomenon.

Bitboy
04-25-2019, 02:38 AM
You'll find the batch mode under File -> New Batch Job :)

I don't know if this works in this case, but maybe it will be of some help regarding Threadripper performance:
https://www.techspot.com/news/78122-report-software-fix-can-double-threadripper-2990wx-performance.html

OlaHaldor
04-25-2019, 02:44 AM
Aah, thanks, never seen that before.

I'm not sure it applies to the 2920x, as they're a bit different technically from what I've gathered.