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TinkerManne
04-12-2019, 10:20 PM
I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?

prometheus
04-13-2019, 10:40 AM
I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?

I liked it too, a bit of a pity we canīt have that.
You can use the carpaint material and use iridiscence, thickness, wavelength and refraction, can be tricky to get what you want though.

Try and load some of the automotive preset surfaces..perlascent etc, increase thickness and iridiscence and refraction and use vpr and see where the effect kicks in.
you may need to lower paint roughness to see the color spectrum start to become stronger instead of dispersed.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144727&d=1555174028


144727

prometheus
04-13-2019, 12:41 PM
As for putting a thin film on to transparent things, like glasses or lens coat color spectrum, maybe use a color mixer node and combinde carpaint and dielectric.

MonroePoteet
04-13-2019, 04:58 PM
Yes, I think removing the Shaders in the Surfaces panel was quite a loss, with no BSDF replacement "shortcuts". I used FastFresnel, Edge Tranparency and ThinFilm very regularly.

For LW2019 Principled BSDF, you may have some success setting up a node network with a rainbow-color Gradient based upon the Incidence angle to the Camera to feed the Subsurface Color and Subsurface Intensity. In this case, the Subsurface Distance was set to 10mm. A sample scene is attached.

144733 144734 144735

144736 144737 144738

144739

MOV File: 144744

Here's the node setup:

144741

This node network inverts the World Forward direction of the Camera by multiplying it by (-1,-1,-1), and uses that as the Vector for the Incidence angle. The two Incidence nodes are put through two Scalar Layer nodes which use Smoky procedurals to get a irregular pattern to the irridescence. The Pow nodes are to exaggerate the Indicence angle. If the Gradient keys are spread out more (note the range is from 0.0 to 0.2), then the irridescence will appear at a larger incidence angle.

144742 Smoky procedurals to get irreglar pattern

The Gradient defines the colors in the spectrum to show as the angle of incidence to the Camera changes, and I didn't try to make it real-world accurate. In real life, it would also depend on the angle of incidence to the light source, but I didn't implement that.

Good luck!
mTp

Tobian
04-14-2019, 01:29 AM
I'm glad I spent hours making those material components videos no one watched...

erikals
04-14-2019, 01:44 AM
ah!  https://i.imgur.com/bcwLfNX.gif

been there, done that.  https://i.imgur.com/tJGL61i.png

it's important to split up the videos (like William Proton)
and always have links available. (signature)

...even then you'll find that many will pass them by. https://i.imgur.com/9QKH4Wq.gif

erikals
04-14-2019, 01:52 AM
for those who missed them >
https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialLightWave3D/search?query=Material+Components

prometheus
04-14-2019, 04:58 AM
Yes, I think removing the Shaders in the Surfaces panel was quite a loss, with no BSDF replacement "shortcuts". I used FastFresnel, Edge Tranparency and ThinFilm very regularly.

For LW2019 Principled BSDF, you may have some success setting up a node network with a rainbow-color Gradient based upon the Incidence angle to the Camera to feed the Subsurface Color and Subsurface Intensity. In this case, the Subsurface Distance was set to 10mm. A sample scene is attached.

144733 144734 144735

144736 144737 144738

144739

MOV File: 144744

Here's the node setup:


144741

This node network inverts the World Forward direction of the Camera by multiplying it by (-1,-1,-1), and uses that as the Vector for the Incidence angle. The two Incidence nodes are put through two Scalar Layer nodes which use Smoky procedurals to get a irregular pattern to the irridescence. The Pow nodes are to exaggerate the Indicence angle. If the Gradient keys are spread out more (note the range is from 0.0 to 0.2), then the irridescence will appear at a larger incidence angle.

144742 Smoky procedurals to get irreglar pattern

The Gradient defines the colors in the spectrum to show as the angle of incidence to the Camera changes, and I didn't try to make it real-world accurate. In real life, it would also depend on the angle of incidence to the light source, but I didn't implement that.

Good luck!
mTp

A typical example of where the statement "donīt be scared of nodes" makes no sense(think it was Deuce Bennet?) mentioning it once Lightwave 2018 came out.
Whats wrong with a thin film shader or a dedicated materil that just needs to be applied than wrestling with a lot of nodes and figuring out how to acheive the effect, workflow going painstakingly at the wrong direction.

That said..nothing wrong with your example here , it was just me reflecting on node workflow in general to acheive what we often could acheive easier in older versions of Lightwave.
So thanks for sharing the sample of how to set this up with nodes.

Or what if we had that thin film shader available in 2019, would you rather set this stuff up for scratch..once it is made you are sort of a little homefree maybe and can use it as a material preset.
Benefits?

Personally I think I would go with a mix of carpaint and dielectric , not sure though.

Tobian
04-14-2019, 05:20 AM
Thanks Erikals. Alas, wasting time, as usual.

erikals
04-14-2019, 05:49 AM
tutorials / previews will always only help a small percentage, unfortunately.

it will continue to be like that, until Ai creates an algorithm that forever solves it.

Qexit
04-14-2019, 06:18 AM
tutorials / previews will always only help a small percentage, unfortunately.

it will continue to be like that, until Ai creates an algorithm that forever solves it.Hehe, so far only Skynet has come up with an algorithm that solves the problem known as 'users' forever :D

TinkerManne
04-14-2019, 07:31 AM
I appreciate all the replies. Looking into the suggestions. Also, thanks to Tobian, I missed a couple, will be checking out your vids again. Thanks for the time and effort, guys!

MonroePoteet
04-14-2019, 08:50 AM
The basic problem with HOURS of material component videos (or reading the entire LW manual, or going through RebelHill's extensive videos) is that it is a "breadth first" approach to the available information (i.e. a broad-spectrum overview intended for general understanding of the domain), whereas the original question was a "depth first search" of the information (I've got a *specific problem* to resolve, how do I do so?).

I'd guess the original poster is in the middle of a project, fairly stoked about what he's accomplished so far, and has a one issue to be resolved. Maybe he can use my (apparently extraneous?) node network for a quick resolution and allocate the time to go through HOURS of videos to find the simpler(?) answer a little later!

mTp

MonroePoteet
04-14-2019, 09:17 AM
A typical example of where the statement "donīt be scared of nodes" makes no sense(think it was Deuce Bennet?) mentioning it once Lightwave 2018 came out.
Whats wrong with a thin film shader or a dedicated materil that just needs to be applied than wrestling with a lot of nodes and figuring out how to acheive the effect, workflow going painstakingly at the wrong direction.

That said..nothing wrong with your example here , it was just me reflecting on node workflow in general to acheive what we often could acheive easier in older versions of Lightwave.
So thanks for sharing the sample of how to set this up with nodes.

Or what if we had that thin film shader available in 2019, would you rather set this stuff up for scratch..once it is made you are sort of a little homefree maybe and can use it as a material preset.
Benefits?

Personally I think I would go with a mix of carpaint and dielectric , not sure though.

I cannot agree more. Since LW is clearly going down the nodal path, I think that LWDG desparately needs to assign a full-time developer whose only responsibility is building an extensive library of "convenience nodes", and a LOT of them.

It literally took about 3 seconds to apply the pre-LW2018 Thin Film shader, and maybe Tobian or another expert knows a 2-second method of doing so in LW2019.

mTp

Tim Parsons
04-14-2019, 11:50 AM
I'm glad I spent hours making those material components videos no one watched...

Yeah - that's what I thought as well when I saw this thread yesterday but didn't have the time to respond. Plus the 1st page of the LW documentation -https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019 - shows a sample from the get go. :) I appreciate your efforts Andrew and have gone over them on several occasions. :)

XswampyX
04-14-2019, 02:25 PM
I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?

What's this? New nodes?

144750

Qexit
04-14-2019, 03:47 PM
What's this? New nodes?

144750I don't know if they are new, but they are there and definitely look like they are going to be fun to play with :)

144751

144752

XswampyX
04-14-2019, 03:57 PM
I don't know if they are new, but they are there and definitely look like they are going to be fun to play with :)

144751

144752

Yep! Nice render BTW. :cool:

Ma3rk
04-14-2019, 04:03 PM
for those who missed them >
https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialLightWave3D/search?query=Material+Components

Ya, well, some of us have a ton of other things going on and are easily <SQUIRREL>... easily distracted and needs reminding of these things even when already subscribed.

erikals
04-14-2019, 04:15 PM
Yepzi Pepzi, lots to keep track of...
https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155723
...and even those are old now.
guessing someone somewhere needs to get paid by NT to keep tutorial links up to date.

anywayz... late night. https://i.imgur.com/aS9u5JU.png

Qexit
04-14-2019, 04:33 PM
I'm glad I spent hours making those material components videos no one watched...I will be working through them tomorrow with special attention to this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLAaJRR1mE

That way I can do some more tinkering and actually understand what I'm doing :)

So many thanks for your efforts and time spent on putting these together Andrew.

MonroePoteet
04-14-2019, 04:50 PM
I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?

In LW2019, there's a Fresnel Irridescence node which may suit your needs. It's demonstrated in Tobian's video, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLAaJRR1mE

starting about 5:03.

mTp

TinkerManne
04-15-2019, 01:51 AM
MonroePoteet I am still in the process of digesting what you are saying here, not being a node guy (yet). I have been experimenting with the Oilpuddle material and learning from it. Thanks for going the extra mile.

gar26lw
04-15-2019, 05:54 AM
yeah, you do a great job mTp, thanks for that :)

lardbros
04-15-2019, 06:04 AM
Nodes can be tricky to get the hang of at first, but... once you 'get' it you can do SO much more than with the layers and shaders. Although the shaders looked cool, they were all cheats and fudges. The new materials are much more realistic looking and when using the new material components, you can really make anything you want. I'll have to post my carbon fibre material, but keep forgetting.

I guess it's a case of jumping in and breaking things before you make something cool with them. You may not create something awesome immediately, but with help from everyone here, nodes are very very powerful things, and we can definitely help! :)

The iridescent materials posted above are surprisingly simple when you break them down to see what they're doing. Just a couple of nodes really.
Andrew's video shows some great use-cases too, along with reading the docs a bit and hammering away on those nodes to understand what's going on I guess.

prometheus
04-15-2019, 08:09 AM
In LW2019, there's a Fresnel Irridescence node which may suit your needs. It's demonstrated in Tobian's video, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLAaJRR1mE

starting about 5:03.

mTp

Wasnīt aware, thatīs great.

prometheus
04-16-2019, 12:51 PM
There is a scene in Lightwave 2019...called Malaika_Bubbles, it has some bubbles in there with some of the material layers, GGX BRDF, GGX BTDF..and with some inputs from fresnel iridiscence and fresnel dielectric.