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RPSchmidt
04-08-2019, 05:06 PM
Must be the season.

Maxon Acquires Redshift Render Technologies (https://greyscalegorilla.com/2019/04/maxon-acquires-redshift-render-technologies/)

TheLexx
04-09-2019, 06:28 AM
Strengthens 4D greatly if Redshift natively included, then if/when the time comes, hit the circling Adobe shark with a half billion dollar harpoon... :D

Hope that doesn't happen though - I think such a step would leave only LW with the truly independent old-school licensing (barring BM maybe).

50one
04-09-2019, 07:09 AM
Given it's maxon it will probably be part of Studionedition which will increase the cost of the package. They know how to milk their customers.

hrgiger
04-09-2019, 08:08 AM
It won't be natively included.

ianr
04-09-2019, 08:26 AM
It won't be natively included.


A Smooth move.... if they manage to keep the Coders ?

50one
04-09-2019, 08:28 AM
^ Money talks, as we all know.

Qexit
04-09-2019, 08:40 AM
It won't be natively included.Hm, not sure about that given the statement by Nicolas Burtnyk in the linked article:

Redshift co-founder Nicolas Burtnyk went on to say,

“We’ve always admired Maxon and the Cinema 4D community, and are thrilled to be a part of it… We are looking forward to working closely with Maxon, collaborating on seamless integration of Redshift into Cinema 4D and continuing to push the boundaries of what’s possible with production-ready GPU rendering.”

'seamless integration of Redshift into Cinema 4D' sounds exactly like they intend having it as an integral part of Cinema 4D not just a plugin or external application. As with most things, only time will tell :)

Marander
04-09-2019, 09:41 AM
Great news indeed.

Added an additional RTX card to double my Redshift and Cycles 4D rendering performance today. RTX rendering support is in development and in some situations multiplies performance according to first tests.

Even without RTX support, incredible fast and noise free renders with DOF, volume scattering and post effects. The progressive viewport render speed is a dream.

Great about Redshift - it's perpetual and all application plugins are included - unlike Octane with its weird licensing (All-Access Annual Pass...) and activation (online or dongle that must be activated periodically, seriously Otoy?).

The only downside for RS so far was texturing (using a mix of custom dialogs and XPresso nodes). Usable but not elegant. The brand new Cinema 4D R20 nodal shading system (redesigned and using the new core) is not yet open for external render engines but that will change now of course with RS's seamless integration.

Yes I can imagine prices could go up slightly (similar to when MeshFusion was included in Modo). Maybe MAXON will restructure their packages (for example Visualize doesn't make sense to me) but as long as they're not changing licensing I don't mind. The licensing change will come sooner or later I'm convinced (specially with the new Ex-Adobe CEO).

Just got a survey of Akeytsu with many questions towards subscription pricing - seems all 3D applications are heading this way. In case of online activation, node locking or even rental only I'll cancel the MSA immediately and keep using the latest Cinema Studio release (and LightWave / Blender). In the recent months, Chaos Group, Laublab, 3D Quakers, Allegorithmics and E-on Software lost me as maintenance customer, but I guess individuals / hobbyists don't really count for the overall revenue and I even got this confirmed by an employee of one of these companies (major part of license revenue is from enterprise customers).

Redshift for LightWave (that sounds so nice!) would be a great addition to its built-in engine but I fear that's not going to happen ever.

Having said that, GPU rendering can only be used on fat workstations, while LW runs on any (mobile) machine and with the new LW2019 Optix denoiser (which can also be enabled in Redshift btw), LW is one of the fastest CPU render engines (even faster then Vray in some situations, depending on the scene / features used).

TheLexx
04-09-2019, 10:03 AM
Just a view, but there seems to be a certain element of diminishing returns with some software upgrades, but if even one 4D Studio offline license version slips out with Redshift incorporated, a guy will be able to freeze it there and use for years, a bit like those people still on CS6.

Marander
04-09-2019, 10:33 AM
Just a view, but there seems to be a certain element of diminishing returns with some software upgrades, but if even one 4D Studio offline license version slips out with Redshift incorporated, a guy will be able to freeze it there and use for years, a bit like those people still on CS6.

Yes that's the beauty of perpetual offline (or free open source) licenses - use it wherever whenever :-)

Currently LW's and Cinema's licensing are exactly the same, it only verifies if the software with the same license is running in the same network already.

Redshift is perpetual and can be used forever already once registered. It's an offline license with transferable node-locking.

You're right, incorporating Redshift in Cinema could make this type of offline / machine independent licensing less feasible. With subscription there's the chance updates get less significant with time but SideEffects shows that it doesn't need to be that way. We'll see, but as of today luckily there are still some very capable and nice behaving 3D applications (including the completely free one) and good 2D alternatives to Adobe. My most up-to-date license for an Adobe product is Photoshop 3.0.1 for SGI IRIX :-) Can still be installed today with a simple serial number, along with Blender.

hrgiger
04-09-2019, 10:56 AM
Hm, not sure about that given the statement by Nicolas Burtnyk in the linked article...

This was a statement from Redshift on the matter.

"To further stress what’s already been said in the press release: There will be no changes in Redshift’s plugin support whatsoever! And, yes, that includes the upcoming Blender plugin! So any worries of “oh my god, are they going to kill Maya/3dsmax/whatever”... please do not worry about that because it’s not happening! smile This is Maxon, not some other company we know! wink

Of course, Maxon (with their technical resources) can and will help us make the C4D integration pretty much perfect. But that won’t take away from the other 3d apps or our general feature set goals.

Beyond the great C4D integration, to us (and the Redshift community), the acquisition means a couple of positive things:

1) We’re rendering programmers and we should be focusing on exactly that. The success of Redshift so far has ben because of the product and the effort we put in it. It wasn’t because of some amazing business/sales/marketing skill. So, with Maxon behind us, we’ll be able to primarily focus on development and not “the other stuff”. Maxon has been doing “the other stuff” for way longer than us (and with great success) and have all the right people to help us with it. This will effectively free up resources so we can focus on what we’re best at doing.

2) We’ll be growing the Redshift team. And, no, that doesn’t mean hiring C4D plugin developers only! smile In fact, pretty soon, another Maya developer will be joining the team! We intend on adding more core rendering people, too, so that work on the rendering feature set (which benefits all 3d apps, not just C4D) can proceed at a faster pace than before. That includes 3.0, RedshiftRT and others.

Look, we understand that this kind of news always worries people. And we expected some of the reactions we’re currently seeing. These reactions are not unreasonable at all! There have been far too many bad examples recently! But when someone hears news about a company acquiring another company, I think it’s important to consider who is behind the acquisition. In my opinion, there’s a pretty huge difference between a faceless multi-billion dollar company and a smaller, community-friendly one!

I don’t know if the above will put anyone’s mind at ease. I guess our future conduct will prove the above more strongly than any words can. Which pretty much sums up the way we’ve been running this company all this time.

Best regards,

-Panos"

Qexit
04-09-2019, 11:15 AM
This was a statement from Redshift on the matter.

"To further stress what’s already been said in the press release: There will be no changes in Redshift’s plugin support whatsoever! And, yes, that includes the upcoming Blender plugin! So any worries of “oh my god, are they going to kill Maya/3dsmax/whatever”... please do not worry about that because it’s not happening! smile This is Maxon, not some other company we know! wink

Of course, Maxon (with their technical resources) can and will help us make the C4D integration pretty much perfect. But that won’t take away from the other 3d apps or our general feature set goals.

Beyond the great C4D integration, to us (and the Redshift community), the acquisition means a couple of positive things:

1) We’re rendering programmers and we should be focusing on exactly that. The success of Redshift so far has ben because of the product and the effort we put in it. It wasn’t because of some amazing business/sales/marketing skill. So, with Maxon behind us, we’ll be able to primarily focus on development and not “the other stuff”. Maxon has been doing “the other stuff” for way longer than us (and with great success) and have all the right people to help us with it. This will effectively free up resources so we can focus on what we’re best at doing.

2) We’ll be growing the Redshift team. And, no, that doesn’t mean hiring C4D plugin developers only! smile In fact, pretty soon, another Maya developer will be joining the team! We intend on adding more core rendering people, too, so that work on the rendering feature set (which benefits all 3d apps, not just C4D) can proceed at a faster pace than before. That includes 3.0, RedshiftRT and others.

Look, we understand that this kind of news always worries people. And we expected some of the reactions we’re currently seeing. These reactions are not unreasonable at all! There have been far too many bad examples recently! But when someone hears news about a company acquiring another company, I think it’s important to consider who is behind the acquisition. In my opinion, there’s a pretty huge difference between a faceless multi-billion dollar company and a smaller, community-friendly one!

I don’t know if the above will put anyone’s mind at ease. I guess our future conduct will prove the above more strongly than any words can. Which pretty much sums up the way we’ve been running this company all this time.

Best regards,

-Panos"My take from the original piece was that they were going to fully integrate the C4D version into C4D but still provide plugin versions for other CG apps. How long the other apps will be supported is down to 'wait and see' and 'keep your fingers crossed'

hrgiger
04-09-2019, 11:57 AM
They wouldn't be hiring a developers for Maya or others if they intended to drop support for other apps. It also would make no financial sense to drop support for apps that would close markets to them that are much larger than C4D.

TheLexx
04-09-2019, 01:22 PM
So maybe ProRender will be stripped out of 4D at some point ? I can't see them as committed to it as they previously seemed to be.

hrgiger
04-09-2019, 03:38 PM
Well ProRender is included with C4D. Redshift will not be. So there would still be motivation to continue with ProRender.