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Qexit
04-01-2019, 01:57 PM
I know this has already been posted in the Tricaster section but thought I'd mention it here as well so everyone knows about it:

https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/01/vizrt-acquisition-newtek/

https://www.vizrt.com/broadcasting/news-articles/vizrt-acquires-newtek

Although today is April 1st, the final line in the article in the second link states:

'Both companies will be presenting to customers, partners, and press at NAB on Sunday 7th April in the Las Vegas Convention Center North Hall. Executives from both companies will be included in order to give further details on the acquisition. '

This does suggest it is a genuine announcement and that full details should come out at the NAB presentation on Sunday 7th April. Lightwave isn't mentioned in either piece so hopefully some mention of it will be part of the presentation at NAB.

************************************************** **********
Edit: for the convenience of anyone coming new to the thread, here is the response from NewTek Sr Mgr of Communications, Chuck Baker:

The most immediate change all users of nearly all NewTek products can expect (and LightWave is one of the nearly all) is that our development and marketing of NewTek products (including LightWave 3D) is not changed by this. As some industry analysts have commented, VizRT and NewTek are essentially complementary companies, and putting them together creates virtually no redundancies. What results is a company with a much wider range across the media and content production industries, in terms of both reach and product range. This also brings together two companies known for innovating software solutions for media and content production and distribution, particularly in areas where big proprietary single-purpose hardware was formerly the solution. Our goal for LightWave remains to increase the success of the product through thoughtful strategic innovation and development.

And please note: "nearly all" may really just be all. I only used the qualifier, because this is entirely new and I have no idea what to anticipate and just don't want to overstate the case if there may be some degree of changes going forward. But whether it turns out to be all or just nearly all, LightWave is in that column.

Posted here in message 66: https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?159624-Vizrt-acquires-NewTek&p=1568368&viewfull=1#post1568368

calilifestyle
04-01-2019, 02:08 PM
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vizrt-buys-newtek-to-become-a-global-powerhouse-in-advanced-video-systems-300822163.html

robertoortiz
04-01-2019, 02:35 PM
Well That happened...
Here the latest video of the company
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-5HRXYhGnc

I do wonder what that means for Lightwave...I find it hard to fathom future Lightwave not being more integrated into the other products

Igu4n4
04-01-2019, 03:37 PM
so no comment from the powers that be before people burn the farm down? odd.

st3.

stoecklem
04-01-2019, 04:03 PM
Vizrt is the only company I can say that I actually don’t mind this at all and am very excited about the future. I am hopeful this will also improve the future of Lightwave. It really is an awesome match and I love Dr. Cross’s new role. I’ll be downloading Vizrt artist soon to check it out. But NewTek definitely needs to make some announcement/posts soon to further confirm and get me even more excited.

TheLexx
04-01-2019, 04:19 PM
Oh boy :cry:... all of a sudden I feel like a little kid scared of the dark. I hope maybe Chuck or Steve can comment (just any comment will do at this point :D).

Oh well, let's hope good comes of it. :)

Sensei
04-01-2019, 04:22 PM
..I love the all messages at 1st April.. ;)

I will make Judgment Day at 1st April.. ;)

erikals
04-01-2019, 04:30 PM
so, it's true. all of it. bought.
https://www.netfonds.no/quotes/release.php?id=20190401.OBI.20190401S93

LightWave is Norwegian now...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizrt



https://i.imgur.com/o5c4Lar.png

make me proud!

TheLexx
04-01-2019, 04:38 PM
Nice coming on 1st April, like a double-bluff kinda thing where everyone thinks it is a joke, then dawns a week later it was real. :D Alright, I'll kick off first with the conspiracy theories. Not a random sale, this must have been planned for ages - Rob and Lino had a strategic vision for LW but weren't told of any sale plans and were also presented with the NT Golden Boot Award for services rendered (no pun intended). Couple of LW updates to show it is not deadware but still a current asset, then NT print an invoice of many zeros for the final sale (which the boss hand delivers...). C'mon, someone top that. :devil:

More seriously, can anyone who knows anything about the new company say what it might mean for LW. Subscription ? Jettisoned altogether ?

Tim Parsons
04-01-2019, 04:56 PM
This makes sense as Tim Jenison probably wanted to retire at some point. These things never happen on a whim so that kind of explains the firings of Rob and gang - they were making the books look good for LW. So I guess we can be grateful they got canned - lose a few to save the many as well as the product.

Edit: You beat me to it Lexx. :)

Sensei
04-01-2019, 05:02 PM
No new buyer is attached to company just acquired, so can sell it in a blink of eye to whoever gives the best price, giving after tax, the nice profit..

..and then just bye, bye..

Tim Parsons
04-01-2019, 05:08 PM
No new buyer is attached to company just acquired, so can sell it in a blink of eye to whoever gives the best price, giving after tax, the nice profit..

..and then just bye, bye..

I don't see that happening. It is a synergy between two similar companies and makes perfect sense.

Sensei
04-01-2019, 05:15 PM
Tim...

A.I. will eat you all in the blink of an eye..

Humans must be smart. Humans must be smarter. Humans must be extremely smart..

probiner
04-01-2019, 05:40 PM
If this is a joke it's like "The Office" boss humor: No one asked for it, no one is laughing.

If true, best of luck, for LW and Tricaster users. :/

erikals
04-01-2019, 05:52 PM
it's true, 100%
www.oslobors.no is a reliable source. they handle all the Norwegian stocks.
> https://newsweb.oslobors.no/message/473495

strange date, but hey. https://i.imgur.com/OCcnS6F.gif

Sensei
04-01-2019, 06:03 PM
it's true, 100%
www.oslobors.no is a reliable source. they handle all the Norwegian stocks.

strange date, but hey. https://i.imgur.com/OCcnS6F.gif


If you are coming with such a statement, you should include direct link...
https://newsweb.oslobors.no/message/473495

ELinder
04-01-2019, 06:23 PM
Andrew Cross posted in the Tricaster section. https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?159622-VIZRT-acquires-Newtek&p=1568273&viewfull=1#post1568273

Hopefully they'll talk about what it means for LW soon.

erikals
04-01-2019, 06:25 PM
you should include direct link...

thanks, fixed.

hrgiger
04-01-2019, 06:37 PM
Well VizRT sure didn't buy NT for LW. So it remains to be seen if they even need it.

Sensei
04-01-2019, 06:41 PM
The future will be bright when the Sun will turn to red giant, which will grow, and emit enormous amount of light..

erikals
04-01-2019, 06:47 PM
The future will be bright when the Sun will turn to red giant, which will grow, and emit enormous amount of light..

lighten up.

https://i.imgur.com/F6SHOgO.jpg

SBowie
04-01-2019, 06:59 PM
This makes sense as Tim Jenison probably wanted to retire at some point. These things never happen on a whim so that kind of explains the firings of Rob and gang - they were making the books look good for LW. So I guess we can be grateful they got canned - lose a few to save the many as well as the product.Can I just say, as someone conversant with most aspects of the matters you raise, that this - and the similar post by another correspondent - are by far the least accurate suppositions I've read this month (and I read a LOT).

3D Kiwi
04-01-2019, 06:59 PM
Havent seen a single mention about Lightwave. I wouldn't think Lightwave could work as a standalone company

Sensei
04-01-2019, 07:05 PM
I wouldn't think Lightwave could work as a standalone company

The all LW devs could fit in my apartment with beds for them...

Nicolas Jordan
04-01-2019, 07:06 PM
Well VizRT sure didn't buy NT for LW. So it remains to be seen if they even need it.

I agree, that is the BIG question mark. If Lightwave has not been bundled up and sold off to another company in the next few years and current development is at least maintained then it will probably be fine and will stay the course for years to come. I sure hope things go well for Lightwave under this change.

3D Kiwi
04-01-2019, 07:06 PM
The all LW devs could fit in my apartment with beds for them...

Was that an offer :-)

rdolishny
04-01-2019, 07:16 PM
Thank god we snuck through this not subscription. Lightwave is something to keep alive for a little while.

Tim Parsons
04-01-2019, 07:28 PM
Can I just say, as someone conversant with most aspects of the matters you raise, that this - and the similar post by another correspondent - are by far the least accurate suppositions I've read this month (and I read a LOT).

Yep - just speculation for sure, but it fit. :)

pbaroque20
04-01-2019, 07:43 PM
LW has been around for a while, and since this is a broadcasting focused company it would make sense to rebrand it, or just make it fit better into a motion graphics pipeline. But hey, just my guess.

Rayek
04-01-2019, 08:57 PM
Reading this news, I look back at a quarter of a century of on and off experiences with Lightwave. I recall my first outings with a hacked (sorry!) version of VideoScape on the Amiga near the end of the eighties of the last century, and the stunning unicycle and red lotus animation, which I must have watched at least 20 times the first time I saw it.

And I also are left feeling a deep sadness, because all things must change and inevitably all things end. I said goodbye to Lightwave a little over a year ago, but kept track of the development here. In my mind Lightwave still needs a good kick in the butt to get it up to par with the competition, and unification is of primary importance to make that happen.

The acquisition of Newtek by Vizrt doesn't bode well for Lightwave, in my opinion. As was stated by Steve (Bowie), Lightwave wasn't part of why Vizrt bought Newtek. Other 3d apps already cater very well for the VfX and motion graphics markets, although I have no idea if Vizrt is interested in competing with their own 3d app (Lightwave).

If Lightwave is to survive, it will probably take a quite different direction. Game asset generation seems the last thought on Vizrt's mind, for example.

Perhaps Lightwave will be given away for (almost) free, similar to Davinci and Fusion? Who knows.

Tim always was, I feel, a large driving factor behind Lightwave: when I watched his Vermeer documentary, I could just tell his passion for Lightwave is real. He is getting on, so I don't know.

I do know I feel depressed about all of this, even though I left Lightwave for my own work (although still fire it up occasionally for the odd thing here and there).

:oye:

Nicolas Jordan
04-01-2019, 09:17 PM
Vizrt really needs to address concerns over what they plan on doing regarding Lightwave since it may or may not fit into their business plan. Hopefully on April 7th this will be addressed but I'm not holding my breath.

erikals
04-01-2019, 09:30 PM
companies usually don't address it, and even if they do, the answer is vague.

who can forget the famous AutoDesk quote "we will continue to develop SoftImage"
...one year later it was gone. (!)

the only 3D apps i would trust to have future development these days is Maya and Blender.
...with a small pat on the shoulder to C4D/Modo/Houdini

LightWave is a risk. i will continue to use it, even years after it is (hopefully not) gone.

https://i.imgur.com/CDsgNgH.png

calilifestyle
04-01-2019, 10:13 PM
companies usually don't address it, and even if they do, the answer is vague.

who can forget the famous AutoDesk quote "we will continue to develop SoftImage"
...one year later it was gone. (!)

the only 3D apps i would trust to have future development these days is Maya and Blender.
...with a small pat on the shoulder to C4D/Modo/Houdini

LightWave is a risk. i will continue to use it, even years after it is (hopefully not) gone.

https://i.imgur.com/CDsgNgH.png

only good thing is Vizr is a Privately Owned co. as well

gar26lw
04-01-2019, 11:56 PM
https://www.foundry.com/news-awards/modo-13-release

50one
04-02-2019, 12:17 AM
the only 3D apps i would trust to have future development these days is Maya and Blender.

Every version of Houdini brings innovation.
I would trust more in Houdini than Maya when it comes to development.

gar26lw
04-02-2019, 01:45 AM
it’s pretty depressing.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 02:00 AM
As customers, we deserve some explanation.

3D Kiwi
04-02-2019, 02:24 AM
As customers, we deserve some explanation.

You would think so. The fact that they haven't even said "Hi we will let you know what is happening with Lightwave soon". Kind of shows their intentions.

50one
04-02-2019, 02:32 AM
You would think so. The fact that they haven't even said "Hi we will let you know what is happening with Lightwave soon". Kind of shows their intentions.

Well, to be honest not sure if there's anyone out there who's job is handling PR/Social for LW3D.
Just bunch of devs and few managers.
Main focus of Newtek was/is their cashcow Tricaster anyway, so I wouldn't hold my breath to be honest.

I would be excited if BMD bought LW to integrate with Fusion for instance.

3D Kiwi
04-02-2019, 02:35 AM
Well, to be honest not sure if there's anyone out there who's job is handling PR/Social for LW3D.
Just bunch of devs and few managers.
Main focus of Newtek was/is their cashcow Tricaster anyway, so I wouldn't hold my breath to be honest.

I would be excited if BMD bought LW to integrate with Fusion for instance.

Dont count on that BMD have done a Newtek and gone quite on Fusion. No word on new releases or anything, ignoring the forums. Maybe this weekend is when all the news will come out.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 02:39 AM
In this 3d world, we have to be prepared to change our tools, eventually.

erikals
04-02-2019, 03:13 AM
CGchannel informs >
http://www.cgchannel.com/2019/04/vizrt-buys-newtek

kyuzo
04-02-2019, 03:17 AM
I am more than a little concerned about this.

Possibly without good reason, won't know until we get some information. My previous employer was a company I'd worked with for almost 20 years. A few years ago, the family who owned it took a step back, brought in a MD, who went about making all sorts of changes - business and staffing.
Then last year, the company was bought out. The MD's mission from the beginning was to make the company look like an attractive purchase for buyers.
Once it had been bought, he was out, then the workforce was whittled down from almost day one of the takeover.
The long-standing staff with valuable experience were cut loose, and it has become a minimalist 'production line' rather than a creative business. I get that their business model was different, but it hollowed out a good family company and left it soul-less.

So maybe my fears about Newtek are unfounded. But my experience over the past few years, and how this could play out are quite depressing.

And hearing abut this news in the forum, posted by a user, strikes me as poor form. 'The Powers That Be' must have known that once the news slipped out, users would be wanting answers to reassure them. A week is a long time to make us wait for some sort of official announcement.

erikals
04-02-2019, 03:21 AM
the 3D side of Vizrt >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZqOMUq4ITw

realtime GI (so-so quality)
realtime Tracking
realtime Animation

MarcusM
04-02-2019, 03:27 AM
From what I see viz Artist have importer for CINEMA 4d files and fbx and they base on preparing live sets in CINEMA. In my opinion there is chance they want use LightWave as a main software for preparing 3d content. That why NT implement "NDI® network discovery mechanism" in LightWave. Maybe there will be some king of bridge Viz Artist<->LightWave. They can also resign from Viz Artist and replace it with LW in future(rename). For sure our community will change. NAB and news about Viz Engine 4 maybe tell more.

https://documentation.vizrt.com/viz-artist-guide/3.13/Import_of_Files_and_Archives.html#

Asticles
04-02-2019, 03:30 AM
If they focus on lw for making things for broadcast, the entire roadmap would change. They have a gaming platform also, but I'm afraid of archviz future, for example.

Qexit
04-02-2019, 03:30 AM
The discussion on this subject in the Tricaster section of the forum makes interesting reading, especially the comments from Anrew Cross:

https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?159622-VIZRT-acquires-Newtek&p=1568273&viewfull=1#post1568273

The lack of Lightwave information is not so good.

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 03:36 AM
Maybe it is not doom and gloom after all. As comparison, Modo 13 has just been released (https://www.foundry.com/news-awards/modo-13-release)yet in the background Foundry bounces around like a yo-yo with ownership, and has just changed hands yet again (https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/146290/foundry-attracts-a-new-owner). They too have panic threads every time this happens, yet Modo which is not particularly the prime asset continues to develop. I suspect Lightwave will continue, but hope licensing doesn't change.

:)

erikals
04-02-2019, 03:42 AM
hope licensing doesn't change
A-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 03:45 AM
Maybe it is not doom and gloom after all. As comparison, Modo 13 has just been released (https://www.foundry.com/news-awards/modo-13-release)yet in the background Foundry bounces around like a yo-yo with ownership, and has just changed hands yet again (https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/146290/foundry-attracts-a-new-owner). They too have panic threads every time this happens, yet Modo which is not particularly the prime asset continues to develop. I suspect Lightwave will continue, but hope licensing doesn't change.

:)

In the middle, they went subs.

erikals
04-02-2019, 03:50 AM
Modo is also perpetual license, having both options is cool by me.
yearly upgrade is $400
skip a year, it is $600

so not that far off from the LightWave model.

prometheus
04-02-2019, 03:58 AM
Not sure If I would have upgraded as I did this sunday, had I known about this acquisition.
Not going to panic though, I do not know much about Vizrt..it seems like a fairly large company..and perhaps they do have more resources with people previously skilled in realtime stuff, which may or may not
translate to develop things together with the Lighwave team.

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 04:00 AM
Modo is also perpetual license, having both options is cool by me.Modo is a perpetual license which still requires internet for periodic checking, and will cease to function otherwise. The workaround is requesting a node locked or a server license, but the old Luxology offline perpetual model is gone. LW and 4D are the only ones still "old school" with licensing that now spring to mind.

With Vizrt and NewTek, it seems a marriage based on similar interests, namely broadcast, with LW something of a little side dish (hence no particular mention), but I hope this will also insulate LW and allow to continue as usual.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 04:03 AM
Modo is a perpetual license which still requires internet for periodic checking, and will cease to function otherwise. The workaround is requesting a node locked or a server license, but the old Luxology offline perpetual model is gone. LW and 4D are the only ones still "old school" with licensing that now spring to mind.

With Vizrt and NewTek, it seems a marriage based on similar interests, namely broadcast, with LW something of a little side dish (hence no particular mention), but I hope this will also insulate LW and allow to continue as usual.

With how may funds? And roadmap?

LW3D should become a separate company.

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 05:23 AM
Ahem before we start going into panic mode...

I prefer to be a bit more optimistic.
First let remember that this has been happening behind the scenes for a while. And I think the Unreal export IS NOT AN ACCIDENT.
A lot of the next gen Virtual set environment used for live productions are done using unreal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTpb6cQ-snQ
Lightwave could become an integral part of their toolset as method for clients to build custom virtual environments.
(that would mean eventual better modeling tools).
True Support of Unreal (like being able to support Unreal shaders in Layout) would be something that would benefit all.



Not sure If I would have upgraded as I did this sunday, had I known about this acquisition.
....

I think it is money well spent. LW 2019 is after all a perpetual license..

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 05:40 AM
The video looks interesting robertoortiz, but to be so dependent on an outside party like Unreal doesn't seem the best plan. Is Unreal absolutely necessary in this type of workflow ? Also, I am not really versed in these engines - is Unreal so much better than Unity or CryEngine ?

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 05:53 AM
The video looks interesting robertoortiz, but to be so dependent on an outside party like Unreal doesn't seem the best plan. Is Unreal absolutely necessary in this type of workflow ? Also, I am not really versed in these engines - is Unreal so much better than Unity or CryEngine ?

For Archviz, it is becoming the defacto standard for real time. Arch Viz firms love it. And I am seeing it more and more for virtual set production as the principal engine. (A bud of mine is in this market)
And for other CG use? From what I have read it is also quietly being used in some productions as the de facto rendering engine. ( someone who worked on maze Runner confirmed this to me)

Chris S. (Fez)
04-02-2019, 06:45 AM
Seems like a great fit. And, yes, the excellent Unreal integration in LW 2019 already makes LW a nice investment for VizRT and users.

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 07:33 AM
News is now spreading out (https://www.redsharknews.com/business/item/6251-vizrt-buys-newtek-in-one-of-the-biggest-disruptive-moves-for-decades), and as far as these things go, is beginning to look like a very shrewd and measured decision by same innovative gang still interested today as when Video Toaster launched.

:)

hrgiger
04-02-2019, 08:02 AM
Maybe it is not doom and gloom after all. As comparison, Modo 13 has just been released (https://www.foundry.com/news-awards/modo-13-release)yet in the background Foundry bounces around like a yo-yo with ownership, and has just changed hands yet again (https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/146290/foundry-attracts-a-new-owner). They too have panic threads every time this happens, yet Modo which is not particularly the prime asset continues to develop. I suspect Lightwave will continue, but hope licensing doesn't change.

:)

Foundry has changed hands 3 times. The first two were investment firms who buy and sell companies as part of their business. The newest buyer, Roper, is not in that line of buying and selling so it would appear that Foundry has a long term owner at this point. And yes, Modo isn't a Foundry cash cow like Nuke, but it does hold its own and its sales were up last year over the previous year. LW on the other hand we all know is being supported with the sale of its tricaster/video lineup and by the good graces of Tim Jenison himself who just sold all of his stock to VizRT. So not really an apt comparison. The ball is all in VizRT's court now and well... they didn't exactly talk about LW in the articles about the sale of Newtek so what they do is really anyone's guess at this point.

gar26lw
04-02-2019, 08:17 AM
yeah, ive seen no mention of lw, it’s all about video.

it’s not good. don’t want to see it die off :(

now i get why origami digital started doing houdini tools ;-p

SBowie
04-02-2019, 08:19 AM
Can I just say, as someone conversant with most aspects of the matters you raise, that this - and the similar post by another correspondent - are by far the least accurate suppositions I've read this month (and I read a LOT).
Yep - just speculation for sure, but it fit. :)

I am sorry to have to point this out, but as conspiracy theories goes, this one needs a lot of work. It omits many important elements of the story. What about the fact that the President of the United States is threatening to close the U.S/Mexico border? The resignation of the Algerian president? The recent reluctance of the Pope to allow his ring to be kissed? The very suspicious fact that one of NewTek's servers is identified as "Area 51"? The plans to develop a "Space Force", and go back to the moon? And so, so much more.

Y'all need to go back to the drawing board until you come up with a unified theory that encompasses these items and many, many more. :D

Tim Parsons
04-02-2019, 08:22 AM
I am sorry to have to point this out, but as conspiracy theories goes, this one needs a lot of work. It omits many important elements of the story. What about the fact that the President of the United States is threatening to close the U.S/Mexico border? The resignation of the Algerian president? The recent reluctance of the Pope to allow his ring to be kissed? The very suspicious fact that one of NewTek's servers is identified as "Area 51"? The plans to develop a "Space Force", and go back to the moon? And so, so much more.

Y'all need to go back to the drawing board until you come up with a unified theory that encompasses these items and many, many more. :D

Love it!! :D:D:D

Asticles
04-02-2019, 08:37 AM
The future of one of the principal tool that some of us base our work, and spent a lot of effort and money, is not a matter of joke.

Is the best moment for lw3dg to clarify the situation, or the ball will grow a lot.

Nicolas Jordan
04-02-2019, 09:07 AM
LightWave is a risk. i will continue to use it, even years after it is (hopefully not) gone.

https://i.imgur.com/CDsgNgH.png

I plan to do the same as well. Even if Lightwave development ends for some reason in the future I will continue to use it for as long as I can.

Chuck
04-02-2019, 09:08 AM
Good morning! The most immediate change all users of nearly all NewTek products can expect (and LightWave is one of the nearly all) is that our development and marketing of NewTek products (including LightWave 3D) is not changed by this. As some industry analysts have commented, VizRT and NewTek are essentially complementary companies, and putting them together creates virtually no redundancies. What results is a company with a much wider range across the media and content production industries, in terms of both reach and product range. This also brings together two companies known for innovating software solutions for media and content production and distribution, particularly in areas where big proprietary single-purpose hardware was formerly the solution. Our goal for LightWave remains to increase the success of the product through thoughtful strategic innovation and development.

And please note: "nearly all" may really just be all. I only used the qualifier, because this is entirely new and I have no idea what to anticipate and just don't want to overstate the case if there may be some degree of changes going forward. But whether it turns out to be all or just nearly all, LightWave is in that column.

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 09:09 AM
Thanks very much Chuck. Cough, licensing, but many thanks again. :)

calilifestyle
04-02-2019, 09:09 AM
Not sure If I would have upgraded as I did this sunday, had I known about this acquisition.
Not going to panic though, I do not know much about Vizrt..it seems like a fairly large company..and perhaps they do have more resources with people previously skilled in realtime stuff, which may or may not
translate to develop things together with the Lighwave team.
I agree

Chuck
04-02-2019, 09:18 AM
Yep - just speculation for sure, but it fit. :)

Not even remotely. :)

Your comments pretty flatly contradict each other in one breath - possible you meant something different in one sentence or the next?

Asticles
04-02-2019, 09:29 AM
Good morning! The most immediate change all users of nearly all NewTek products can expect (and LightWave is one of the nearly all) is that our development and marketing of NewTek products (including LightWave 3D) is not changed by this. As some industry analysts have commented, VizRT and NewTek are essentially complementary companies, and putting them together creates virtually no redundancies, but results in a company with a much wider range across the media and content production industries, that brings together two companies known for innovating software solutions for media and content production and distribution, particularly in areas where big proprietary single-purpose hardware was formerly the solution. Our goal for LightWave remains to increase the success of the product through thoughtful strategic innovation and development.

And please note: "nearly all" may really just be all. I only used the qualifier, because this is entirely new and I have no idea what to anticipate and just don't want to overstate the case if there may be some degree of changes going forward. But whether it turns out to be all or just nearly all, LightWave is in that column.

Thanks for the explanation.

Best regards.

glw
04-02-2019, 09:30 AM
Good morning! The most immediate change all users of nearly all NewTek products can expect (and LightWave is one of the nearly all) is that our development and marketing of NewTek products (including LightWave 3D) is not changed by this. As some industry analysts have commented, VizRT and NewTek are essentially complementary companies, and putting them together creates virtually no redundancies, but results in a company with a much wider range across the media and content production industries, that brings together two companies known for innovating software solutions for media and content production and distribution, particularly in areas where big proprietary single-purpose hardware was formerly the solution. Our goal for LightWave remains to increase the success of the product through thoughtful strategic innovation and development.

And please note: "nearly all" may really just be all. I only used the qualifier, because this is entirely new and I have no idea what to anticipate and just don't want to overstate the case if there may be some degree of changes going forward. But whether it turns out to be all or just nearly all, LightWave is in that column.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread, Chuck. I'd read this page a bit earlier: https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/02/newtek-acquisition-by-vizrt/ and the part about Lightwave did leave me with some concerns. I'm glad to know that Lightwave isn't immediately facing the executioner.

Qexit
04-02-2019, 09:32 AM
Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread, Chuck. I'd read this page a bit earlier: https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/02/newtek-acquisition-by-vizrt/ and the part about Lightwave did leave me with some concerns. I'm glad to know that Lightwave is immediately facing the executioner.I'm sure you meant to say: I'm glad to know that Lightwave is NOT immediately facing the executioner. :)

Rayek
04-02-2019, 09:33 AM
I'm glad to know that Lightwave is immediately facing the executioner.

"isn't"?

glw
04-02-2019, 09:34 AM
Ineed, I did mean to say "isn't" and just corrected it. :) Thank you.

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 09:47 AM
Ineed, I did mean to say "isn't" and just corrected it. :) Thank you.

Your link (https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/02/newtek-acquisition-by-vizrt/)is very good. Slightly concerning that "However, many Vizrt users rely on Maxon Cinema 4D for early 3D development before bringing models into Viz Virtual Studio." So I hope LW isn't elbowed out, but rather about bringing different users into the new ecosystem.

One thing which made me smile, as it hadn't occurred to me - "Not making the list, but we have to wonder, does this also mean the end of Kiki Stockhammer?" I sincerely hope not. :)

Chris S. (Fez)
04-02-2019, 09:49 AM
yeah, ive seen no mention of lw, it’s all about video.

it’s not good. don’t want to see it die off :(

now i get why origami digital started doing houdini tools ;-p

Vizrt is massively invested in Unreal and real time graphics. This is a great fit IMo, particularly if they are sharing tech. LW is already well integrated into Unreal and brings value to Vizrt.

probiner
04-02-2019, 09:51 AM
I am sorry to have to point this out, but as conspiracy theories goes, this one needs a lot of work. It omits many important elements of the story. What about the fact that the President of the United States is threatening to close the U.S/Mexico border? The resignation of the Algerian president? The recent reluctance of the Pope to allow his ring to be kissed? The very suspicious fact that one of NewTek's servers is identified as "Area 51"? The plans to develop a "Space Force", and go back to the moon? And so, so much more.

Y'all need to go back to the drawing board until you come up with a unified theory that encompasses these items and many, many more. :D

You missed the biggest one going for almost 3 years now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2BVI9OhC4

As NOT seen in late night pundit shows disguised as comedy.

Marander
04-02-2019, 09:51 AM
The merge doesn't really bother me.

As long as LW keeps its current licensing, providing fixes and interesting new releases I keep using the latest version. The slightest move towards online or node locked licensing and I'm out.

I guess nothing will change until LW2020 since that development is already going on - its future depends how well that turns out.

In order for it to be successful and well received by potential new users, I consider basic (parametric) modeling tools in Layout and a massive UI/UX refresh essential.

Overall and longterm in the 3D industry I see a trend that there will only be one (free) software available as a viable option for most hobbyists (meaning low / no cost and user friendly licensing).

LW in motion graphics is not realistic in my opinion, I cannot imagine anyone working in that area having interest in LW. In Europe and large parts of the States for most design studios, set design, 3D broadcast, product viz and mograph related stuff is already covered with other solutions and mostly satisfied users.

RebelHill
04-02-2019, 09:57 AM
Slightly concerning that "However, many Vizrt users rely on Maxon Cinema 4D for early 3D development before bringing models into Viz Virtual Studio." So I hope LW isn't elbowed out

There're 2 sensible roads really... On the one hand, it makes sense not to sink money into LW dev if users have a commonly adopted 3D app to fit the needs. On the other, to have your own 3D app that can be tailored to the needs of the users and ecosystem also makes a lot of sense.

I'd imagine the most likely outcome will be that VizRT keep LW going for at least a few years to explore how well it can integrate and how the uptake goes before making any real long term decision to keep or can it.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 10:07 AM
There're 2 sensible roads really... On the one hand, it makes sense not to sink money into LW dev if users have a commonly adopted 3D app to fit the needs. On the other, to have your own 3D app that can be tailored to the needs of the users and ecosystem also makes a lot of sense.

I'd imagine the most likely outcome will be that VizRT keep LW going for at least a few years to explore how well it can integrate and how the uptake goes before making any real long term decision to keep or can it.

To achieve this LW should be entirely procedural, and focused in motion graphics and also to be a good unreal asset creator.

In this case, modeler should evolve A LOT to compete with other packages. The advantage of cinema4d is that is somewhat intuitive and visual for new users. Some serious thoughts have to be made here.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 10:13 AM
As a side note, Blender is getting Everything Nodes, which will become a free mograph platform (it currently has Animation Nodes, from the same developer, but as an external addon).

As I suspect, my wise is that we're not getting some archviz specialization in the future, if Lw continues.

jwiede
04-02-2019, 10:43 AM
You would think so. The fact that they haven't even said "Hi we will let you know what is happening with Lightwave soon". Kind of shows their intentions.

Exactly so.

Nicolas Jordan
04-02-2019, 10:55 AM
Foundry has changed hands 3 times. The first two were investment firms who buy and sell companies as part of their business. The newest buyer, Roper, is not in that line of buying and selling so it would appear that Foundry has a long term owner at this point. And yes, Modo isn't a Foundry cash cow like Nuke, but it does hold its own and its sales were up last year over the previous year. LW on the other hand we all know is being supported with the sale of its tricaster/video lineup and by the good graces of Tim Jenison himself who just sold all of his stock to VizRT. So not really an apt comparison. The ball is all in VizRT's court now and well... they didn't exactly talk about LW in the articles about the sale of Newtek so what they do is really anyone's guess at this point.

It will really come down to money and business as it always does. Vizrt will likely give Lightwave a chance over the next few years to see if it can be profitable and is worth keeping around.

SBowie
04-02-2019, 11:00 AM
One thing which made me smile, as it hadn't occurred to me - "Not making the list, but we have to wonder, does this also mean the end of Kiki Stockhammer?" I sincerely hope not. :)I've no doubt Kiki will outlast us all (and she likely already has all of the necessary accouterments for the ride of the Valkyries).

Rayek
04-02-2019, 11:01 AM
To achieve this LW should be entirely procedural, and focused in motion graphics and also to be a good unreal asset creator.

In this case, modeler should evolve A LOT to compete with other packages. The advantage of cinema4d is that is somewhat intuitive and visual for new users. Some serious thoughts have to be made here.

Agreed. C4D is heavily entrenched in motion graphics, and unless Lightwave is more or less on par with C4d, even when given away for free, I just don't see anyone giving up their beloved C4D for this type of work. Lightwave's basic architecture is not quite compatible with this workflow (yet?).

It requires a LOT of investment of time and money to get Lightwave up to speed in this area. Which I just don't see happening if I were Virtz, because the market is already dominated by C4D. Unless they are absolutely invested in attempting to take over a chunk of the C4D market. Which I don't think is the case here.

But whatever happens, happens.

Andy Webb
04-02-2019, 11:02 AM
It will really come down to money and business as it always does. Vizrt will likely give Lightwave a chance over the next few years to see if it can be profitable and is worth keeping around.

But that will only work if Lightwave keeps developing...

Bill Carey
04-02-2019, 11:11 AM
It's quickly devolving in to a 'we're all gonna die in 12 years if we don't take everyone's money and spend it on carbon credits' discussion lol.

sadkkf
04-02-2019, 11:30 AM
Agreed. C4D is heavily entrenched in motion graphics, and unless Lightwave is more or less on par with C4d, even when given away for free, I just don't see anyone giving up their beloved C4D for this type of work. Lightwave's basic architecture is not quite compatible with this workflow (yet?).

It requires a LOT of investment of time and money to get Lightwave up to speed in this area. Which I just don't see happening if I were Virtz, because the market is already dominated by C4D. Unless they are absolutely invested in attempting to take over a chunk of the C4D market. Which I don't think is the case here.

But whatever happens, happens.

Having a native toolset will be a huge advantage and I imagine users will appreciate not having to maintain another package to do their work. Will VizRT want to invest in LW's development enough to do this or will they be content having their users continue with their current workflows? If LW is developed and integrated nicely, will it still remain relevant to other markets?

There's too much uncertainty. Now that Substance is gone (for me, at least) I may need to reevaluate my own toolset.

If Pixologic sells out, I'm selling my computer.

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 11:38 AM
It's quickly devolving in to a 'we're all gonna die in 12 years if we don't take everyone's money and spend it on carbon credits' discussion lol.
Yup


If LW is developed and integrated nicely, will it still remain relevant to other markets?


Look at C4D and their tight integration with the Adobe toolsets. that worked out well for them. LW now has a chance to be better integrated into the real time market. I feel that would benefit all long term.



It's quickly devolving in to a 'we're all gonna die in 12 years if we don't take everyone's money and spend it on carbon credits' discussion lol.
yup. I am more optimistic. REAL virtual sets are the future, and having an tool in your ecosystem that allows for content creation has a lot of advantages. But there are challenges like an OVERHAUL of the LW interface, more deep implementation of UNREAL shaders, procedural modeling tools and a new TEXT engine in Layout.


But I am exited. Real time is the future. And Lw big close to Unreal it a GREAT thing.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 11:42 AM
You should be able to preview what you will see on the engine. Will this be the abandon of the offline render and the develop of a realtime viewport engine to match unreal or unity?

Also, to model in an environment like marmoset would be the best option for this market. But what invest of money you should need to achieve this?

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 11:47 AM
You should be able to preview what you will see on the engine. Will this be the abandon of the offline render and the develop of a realtime viewport engine to match unreal or unity?

Also, to model in an environment like marmoset would be the best option for this market. But what invest of money you should need to achieve this?

Why develop an engine you already have Unreal?
And about the offline render, there is still an obvious market for it.

hrgiger
04-02-2019, 11:47 AM
There's too much uncertainty. Now that Substance is gone (for me, at least) I may need to reevaluate my own toolset.



You know that Substance is keeping perpetual indie licenses right?

sadkkf
04-02-2019, 12:25 PM
You know that Substance is keeping perpetual indie licenses right?

Maybe for now. I don't trust them enough to maintain that model, though.

sadkkf
04-02-2019, 12:28 PM
Look at C4D and their tight integration with the Adobe toolsets. that worked out well for them. LW now has a chance to be better integrated into the real time market. I feel that would benefit all long term.

I can hope this happens with LW as well. With a modicum of luck, they will see LW as a separate tool and not just one to use with their other products. I'm hopeful, but nervous.

Asticles
04-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Why develop an engine you already have Unreal?
And about the offline render, there is still an obvious market for it.

Because when you're working with the object, it's better to use a WYSIWYG procedure, so you can go forward and backward in the asset creation. Modo, cinema, blender and others have a full pbr viewport.

About the offline render, I like it, of course, but I doubt Vizrt is interested on it.

Edited: nowadays I see more and more of my competition using realtime engines, like Lumion. I don't like it for stills, but I can see my boss' eyes brighting when he sees one of those archviz videos, which we cannot create because we only use an offline render.

Edited2: The engine should be only the visualization part, not the interactiveness, etc.

AnimeJoex
04-02-2019, 12:45 PM
I'm just looking forward to the shiny new Unity bridge we know is coming in Lightwave 2020. Don't have to confirm or deny it Newtek, we know it's coming! :p ;)

Tim Parsons
04-02-2019, 01:14 PM
Don't have to confirm or deny it Newtek, we know it's coming! :p ;)

You can't say NewTek on this VisRT forum!! You'll be banned forever!! :)

SBowie
04-02-2019, 01:19 PM
You'll be banned forever!! :)You have to try really hard to be banned here - in witness of which, I am still here after >19,000 posts ...

Tim Parsons
04-02-2019, 01:25 PM
You have to try really hard to be banned here - in witness of which, I am still here after >19,000 posts ...

:) Steve - you need to ban yourself for the NewTek banner in your profile picture. Keep in mind who you work for. :D:D

AnimeJoex
04-02-2019, 01:30 PM
You can't say NewTek on this VisRT forum!! You'll be banned forever!! :)

VisRTek ;)

3D Kiwi
04-02-2019, 01:41 PM
So who do we send unify emails to now???

bobakabob
04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
As 3D is so niche there are no certainties. Everyone here has transferable skills, it really isn’t too much of a problem switching apps if you have to.

Stilll, this looks really interesting. It’s not all about broadcasting, Vizrt are really into real time rendering...

kopperdrake
04-02-2019, 01:58 PM
If they turn to real-time rendering, I'll be chuffed to bits! It's the future.

SBowie
04-02-2019, 02:00 PM
:) Steve - you need to ban yourself for the NewTek banner in your profile picture. Keep in mind who you work for. :D:DI'm always a little behind the curve. I just got around to removing the Core hashmarks from my avatar (while adding that 'trés chic' helmet). :D

AnimeJoex
04-02-2019, 02:03 PM
So who do we send unify emails to now???

Send it to every person within Newtek and everyone within VisRT. Mass mail it once a day, every day for the rest of their lives. It's the only way. ;)

slv
04-02-2019, 02:05 PM
I hear all the arguments. I want to stay positive, Lightwave is Newtek's little baby, I can not imagine Newtek abandoning his child, Newtek's leaders are responsible people. With the export to unreal engine today, I think Newtek wants to give to Lightwave a real-time future with new and more powerfull tools ....

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 02:18 PM
I think Newtek wants to give to Lightwave a real-time future with new and more powerfull tools ....
And that cool thing is that REAL TIME is the future. Here is the thing. Hitching the wagon now to this market will assure the LONG TERM survival of the app.

wingzeta
04-02-2019, 02:34 PM
Just keep developing Lightwave, and don't go subscription, and I will keep giving you my money. That's it, period.

Oh, and guess what? A lot of people who don't even know LW exists, desire such an option. A DCC with an honest license. If Vizrt knows how to market a product, they may sell a lot of seats. If the software can be modernized a bit, they may sell a whole lot. On the other hand with a subscription model, there will be no reason for anyone to switch, and take on the learning curve, when they already have a modern subscription option they've been using. Subscription will kill LW in an instant, in any situation other than, they update the tools to be the very best in the industry bar none. That's almost impossible without an improbably huge capital investment, soooo... Don't go subscription, and work on being the best option for studios who want to break from Autodesk, or don't want to pay Maxon's high prices. It's not a bad position to be in if you do the one thing Newtek never would... Marketing the product.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-02-2019, 02:59 PM
Suddenly, the following becomes more important imo: Nodal everything is fine. But the team needs to come up with an easy way for users to "tag" and organize multiple nodal outputs values (even from different node networks) in an ultra-simple UI in case a user has no Node know-how. And make these simple UIs (ie. idiot-proof skins for complex nodal Unreal Surface settings) the default.

Maybe Mike can come up with something integrated with Nodemeister. This was discussed elswhere by Robert, but I like the idea of making LW as user-friendly as possible...even if some of us are comfortable with nodes

TheLexx
04-02-2019, 03:17 PM
Okay real-time...but what does that look like in practice ? Will this allow Lightwave to have a real actor driving a digital character in a digital set like Hellblade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbQSpfWUs4I#t=6m44s), or a real person interacting live (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTpb6cQ-snQ#t=8m25s) with a digital set, and is Tricaster involved in some way ? Is anyone already doing anything similar who could maybe comment further on the hardware/software chain ?

hrgiger
04-02-2019, 03:47 PM
Maybe for now. I don't trust them enough to maintain that model, though.

Ok. Except they will.

Not that it matters to me. Been on subs for 3 years with them already.

Rayek
04-02-2019, 04:19 PM
Oh, and guess what? A lot of people who don't even know LW exists, desire such an option. A DCC with an honest license. If Vizrt knows how to market a product, they may sell a lot of seats. If the software can be modernized a bit, they may sell a whole lot.

Not with the proverbial open source elephant in the room which gets better and better and has already left LW (for the most part) in its dust. Can't get more of an honest license like that either.

...and we're back at the question what market Lightwave should really be focusing on. Motion graphics? Real-time asset generation for Unreal and Vizrt? Lightwave and/or Modeler will need a total overhaul. Will the new owners "own up" to that? We'll see.

2019 has been an 'interesting' year so far for the 3d crowd.

robertoortiz
04-02-2019, 07:55 PM
Don't go subscription, and work on being the best option for studios who want to break from Autodesk, or don't want to pay Maxon's high prices. It's not a bad position to be in if you do the one thing Newtek never would... Marketing the product.

Great post


Suddenly, the following becomes more important imo: Nodal everything is fine. But the team needs to come up with an easy way for users to "tag" and organize multiple nodal outputs values (even from different node networks) in an ultra-simple UI in case a user has no Node know-how. And make these simple UIs (ie. idiot-proof skins for complex nodal Unreal Surface settings) the default.

Maybe Mike can come up with something integrated with Nodemeister. This was discussed elswhere by Robert, but I like the idea of making LW as user-friendly as possible...even if some of us are comfortable with nodes

Another great post

Marander
04-02-2019, 10:45 PM
Subscription will kill LW in an instant, in any situation other than, they update the tools to be the very best in the industry bar none. That's almost impossible without an improbably huge capital investment, soooo... Don't go subscription, and work on being the best option for studios who want to break from Autodesk, or don't want to pay Maxon's high prices. It's not a bad position to be in if you do the one thing Newtek never would... Marketing the product.

The argument about 'high' prices is only one for hobbyists and cheap 3D users.

A professional should know that the time saved / money earned with a much more efficient tool and better end results is easily covering the additional cost. C'mon spending a few grand for the main work tool shouldn't be an issue for any pro, otherwise he's doing something wrong.

Blender is not yet reliable enough and lot of parts are still in development. You need separate beta compiles for different features and these features are mostly not yet at the level of Maxon, SideFX or AD products. This however can change for Blender, once all the development streams are consolidated and the software is more refined and stable (most likely somewhere around 2.81 or 2.82). But as of today, Blender or LightWave is only for cheap 'professionals' and hobbyists, who are ready to sacrifice efficiency and stability for less money.

The only reason why I would choose LW or Blender as my main tools is if there are no other perpetual and offline alternatives left for me as hobbyist. But even for that they'd have to make a giant leap in development to reach the quality of older versions my software.

3D Kiwi
04-02-2019, 11:29 PM
The argument about 'high' prices is only one for hobbyists and cheap 3D users.

A professional should know that the time saved / money earned with a much more efficient tool and better end results is easily covering the additional cost. C'mon spending a few grand for the main work tool shouldn't be an issue for any pro, otherwise he's doing something wrong.

Blender is not yet reliable enough and lot of parts are still in development. You need separate beta compiles for different features and these features are mostly not yet at the level of Maxon, SideFX or AD products. This however can change for Blender, once all the development streams are consolidated and the software is more refined and stable (most likely somewhere around 2.81 or 2.82). But as of today, Blender or LightWave is only for cheap 'professionals' and hobbyists, who are ready to sacrifice efficiency and stability for less money.

The only reason why I would choose LW or Blender as my main tools is if there are no other perpetual and offline alternatives left for me as hobbyist. But even for that they'd have to make a giant leap in development to reach the quality of older versions my software.

So Tangent animation who made Nextgen a $30 million dollar movie are cheap?

Marander
04-02-2019, 11:42 PM
So Tangent animation who made Nextgen a $30 million dollar movie are cheap?

1) Blender was not the only software used in that film, they also used Houdini, FumeFX, Substance etc., so it wasn't possible using Blender alone and
2) yes Blender certainly helped making the film production cheaper (not saying that the end result looks bad and I like also the official Blender short films)
3) big Studios and productions like that have usually develop their own tools in addition

Ztreem
04-02-2019, 11:54 PM
The argument about 'high' prices is only one for hobbyists and cheap 3D users.

A professional should know that the time saved / money earned with a much more efficient tool and better end results is easily covering the additional cost. C'mon spending a few grand for the main work tool shouldn't be an issue for any pro, otherwise he's doing something wrong.

Blender is not yet reliable enough and lot of parts are still in development. You need separate beta compiles for different features and these features are mostly not yet at the level of Maxon, SideFX or AD products. This however can change for Blender, once all the development streams are consolidated and the software is more refined and stable (most likely somewhere around 2.81 or 2.82). But as of today, Blender or LightWave is only for cheap 'professionals' and hobbyists, who are ready to sacrifice efficiency and stability for less money.

The only reason why I would choose LW or Blender as my main tools is if there are no other perpetual and offline alternatives left for me as hobbyist. But even for that they'd have to make a giant leap in development to reach the quality of older versions my software.

Interesting, didn’t know that all LW and Blender users are cheap? Because at work we have both C4D and 3DS and still we use blender and LW for most of our work.

3D Kiwi
04-02-2019, 11:57 PM
I use blender so I am cheap to. Oh well, now were are the keys to the ferrari....

Marander
04-02-2019, 11:59 PM
Interesting, didn’t know that all LW and Blender users are cheap? Because at work we have both C4D and 3DS and still we use blender and LW for most of our work.

Interesting. I'd like to know what the reasons are for that besides cost?

- - - Updated - - -


I use blender so I am cheap to. Oh well, now were are the keys to the ferrari....

I use Blender too for certain things (Blender Fluids is great for example) but not as main software.

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 12:01 AM
All this talk about being cheap and my daughter walks in with a paperclip necklace she just made thinking she is all flash and stuff :-)

Marander
04-03-2019, 12:09 AM
OK maybe I went too far with that statement, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. By no means Blender or LightWave are bad, but in parts they are not on the same level as others, specially in efficiency and stability. Still, I do not understand why spending a couple of thousand bucks for the main work tool should be an issue for a professional in most regions.

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 12:23 AM
Maya cost $2170.00 per year here in AUS. On top of that I have 20 render nodes. Redshift is $700 per node (maya dosnt have any render licences anymore) So just to buy into maya and get some rendering licences I have to fork out $16,170.
Then each year I would have to pay another $2170 for Maya and $351 per node update for Redshift. $9190 Per year it would cost me to use Maya and redshift. Blender costs $0
You would also have to buy a network render controller like Deadline. Not sure what that costs but a few more grand I would say.

C4D cost just over 8k to buy here. Then maintenance of around $900 per year. You also have to by a network licence of about 1k if you want to network render with it using a third party controller like Deadline.

If I can get the same about of work and quality of work out of Blender then I cant think of a reason not to. And then I can use the money I have saved on other things to do with the business or holidays for the family.
For me its not cheap its smart.

Marander
04-03-2019, 12:35 AM
@3D Kiwi holy sh... I had no idea software prices are so much higher in NZ. But in one way they have to punish you for living in such a nice country :-)

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 12:38 AM
Well I am lucky I am in Aussie, Born in NZ. I think the costs are even worse in NZ.

I think Adobe costs about $50 in the US where it is around $80 here per month.

Marander
04-03-2019, 12:49 AM
As I comparison, I paid about $2k for Cinema 4D Studio (actually $800 for Broadcast as a LightWave sidegrade and $1200 for the Studio upgrade later, both when they were in promotion + the yearly maintenance of $650 which is optional), for RedShift I payed $400, for Vray a bit more.

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 12:52 AM
First you call me cheap and then you start showing off. whats next you report me to Blender foundation for using a cracked copy of Blender.... :-)

Ztreem
04-03-2019, 12:53 AM
OK maybe I went too far with that statement, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. By no means Blender or LightWave are bad, but in parts they are not on the same level as others, specially in efficiency and stability. Still, I do not understand why spending a couple of thousand bucks for the main work tool should be an issue for a professional in most regions.

This is the same for all tools. The UV tools in C4D and viewport rendering is not as good as in Blender. Maya’s animation tools is better than most. Blender realtime render is better than most other dcc apps etc. you know it continues, there is no perfect app. Usually you choose the tool that best fits your hand and it doesn’t always have to do with money. To buy a Ferrari just to commute is not cheap but I wouldn’t call it smart either. To call all LW and Blender users cheap is a little over the top.

rustythe1
04-03-2019, 12:54 AM
not just NZ, its the same here in UK, the added tax and fluctuating exchange rate and super low interest rate makes it impossible, i would have to put half what i earn back in to yearly software if i wanted to use Autodesk products in place of my more budget software, but i don't think im too hard off being as i just bought a house for nearly half a mill! but house prices in UK is another sore point, a 4 bed house in my area is almost twice the price of a 3 bed, but 20 years ago the same two houses had a 20% price difference! seems software companies followed that same model!

Marander
04-03-2019, 01:04 AM
First you call me cheap and then you start showing off. whats next you report me to Blender foundation for using a cracked copy of Blender.... :-)

LOL

I'd love to live in Australia or New Zealand but I learned today I'd have to buy all the software beforehand or be doomed to use Blender in the outback.

Marander
04-03-2019, 01:10 AM
This is the same for all tools. The UV tools in C4D and viewport rendering is not as good as in Blender. Maya’s animation tools is better than most. Blender realtime render is better than most other dcc apps etc. you know it continues, there is no perfect app. Usually you choose the tool that best fits your hand and it doesn’t always have to do with money. To buy a Ferrari just to commute is not cheap but I wouldn’t call it smart either. To call all LW and Blender users cheap is a little over the top.

Thanks this makes sense. No 3D software is perfect and there are some goodies or deficiencies in each specific app. That's why I also use LW and Blender additionally. I see the advantages of Eevee but Blender 2.8 has not been stable for me so far. But as a main 3D software for most use cases, specially LW is not an option for me.

Wilfrick
04-03-2019, 01:16 AM
I don't know how many of us could make this work if 25 years ago there wasn't a software/hardware house that had cheap prices for a software that was running on cheap computers... I bet all of us hadn't so many money at 20 y.o. to put in a "professional" 3d software running on a professional silicon graphics.
NT wants to continue to have cheap prices like 25 years ago, nothing changed in $, but now that we are 40/50 y.o. we need to say "oh, cheap price isn't professional, buy other"? Really? We must only say "thankyou NT"!!! A lot of us fight every day with customers that want pay less for more work, with bills, with home/family costs... Find better customer is a solution that not always is possible, or at least in not all the countries. We do all what we can and many of us do some very high quality works, better than people with maya/cinema/max and so on.

Ztreem
04-03-2019, 01:26 AM
Thanks this makes sense. No 3D software is perfect and there are some goodies or deficiencies in each specific app. That's why I also use LW and Blender additionally. I see the advantages of Eevee but Blender 2.8 has not been stable for me so far. But as a main 3D software for most use cases, specially LW is not an option for me.

We all do different work and therefore the preferd app can differ. I don’t use LW as my main app anymore either, I use Blender now. I get better quality faster and it’s more fun to work with. Eevee just saved my butt when my render times got too long to be able to deliver my last animation in time. Instead of 1-10 min per frame I got down to 5-10 sec per frame. Quality wise: not as good as cycles but good enough to keep the client happy. No other expensive dcc app could have helped me better than what Blender did, that’s for cheap.

Marander
04-03-2019, 01:27 AM
I don't know how many of us could make this work if 25 years ago there wasn't a software/hardware house that had cheap prices for a software that was running on cheap computers... I bet all of us hadn't so many money at 20 y.o. to put in a "professional" 3d software running on a professional silicon graphics.
NT wants to continue to have cheap prices like 25 years ago, nothing changed in $, but now that we are 40/50 y.o. we need to say "oh, cheap price isn't professional, buy other"? Really? We must only say "thankyou NT"!!! A lot of us fight every day with customers that want pay less for more work, with bills, with home/family costs... Find better customer is a solution that not always is possible, or at least in not all the countries. We do all what we can and many of us do some very high quality works, better than people with maya/cinema/max and so on.

That's not the point. 3D was very niche 20 years ago, when Maya was like $20k and an SGI Octane workstation $50k. Today 3D software is much more common to use and 3D hardware is very cheap compared to before. Yes, LightWave helped making it available to more users. But that was then.

Thing is - is it worth using an outdated and inefficient workflow when the price difference is only $2-3k but saves you time in the end and is more fun to work with? Quality / end result is first down to the individual artist but the right tool helps too. The 3D market is huge nowadays (archviz, product viz, product design, shop design, previz, concept art, tv commercials / mograph, broadcast, infographs, kids shows, movies, marketing, magazines, game content, (F)UI design, VR / AR etc.). I have friends who freelance in this field, there is lots of work and interesting projects available.

About quality: There are exceptions of course but compare the LightWave gallery and what users of other software create or what's on Artstation, I think it speaks for itself.

slv
04-03-2019, 01:59 AM
architecture yes effectively, I am an architect and user of Lightwave since almost 20 years now, there is a huge user potential in architecture, there are thousands of architecture agencies in each country, so yes make accessible lightwave to all these small structures can be a winning point also .I am confident with Newtek's executives, they have always had a reasoned business policy.
Just, Lightwave needs to modernize even more to become attractive and powerfull.

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 02:12 AM
You have to find a balance between cost and workflow. I can really only compare with Softimage.
The render pass system in SI was the best around at the time, Thet may even still be the case.

It saved countless hours of work with its ease of setup and the when clients came back with changes.
I once had a scene with 172 render passes in SI. Rendered it out, then the client wanted a simple change to the camera movement.

Re did the camera, took about half and hour and straight back on the farm, It would submit all 172 passes at once. That would have taken days with Lightwave.

I am finding Blender 2.8 pretty stable and workflow wise for what I do it is great. No real slowdowns compared with SI. Render pass system isnt as good but still very workable.

So I couldn't justify the 2k Autodesk would be charging for SI now if they had kept it.

Now if I was trying to do high end VFX with Bender because I was to cheap to buy Houdini, that would be a problem.

rustythe1
04-03-2019, 02:15 AM
architecture yes effectively, I am an architect and user of Lightwave since almost 20 years now, there is a huge user potential in architecture, there are thousands of architecture agencies in each country, so yes make accessible lightwave to all these small structures can be a winning point also .I am confident with Newtek's executives, they have always had a reasoned business policy.
Just, Lightwave needs to modernize even more to become attractive and powerfull.

yes, and i think if you look at the last few cgarchitect poles you can see lightwave made a bit of a jump this year, lightwave used to have its own section on the forums but was ditched a few years ago, however in the latest rendering pole its almost twice the percentage of modo (i think it was lower last time around), and is above several dedicated renderers i would have expected to be higher,

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 02:18 AM
Not as high as cycles.. just saying :-)

Marander
04-03-2019, 02:34 AM
yes, and i think if you look at the last few cgarchitect poles you can see lightwave made a bit of a jump this year, lightwave used to have its own section on the forums but was ditched a few years ago, however in the latest rendering pole its almost twice the percentage of modo (i think it was lower last time around), and is above several dedicated renderers i would have expected to be higher,

rustythe I have deep respect for the spaceships you created in LightWave. Still outstanding quality work for todays standards. You prove what can be achieved in LightWave, even though I think you would be more efficient in other applications. In the LW Gallery nowadays I see almost nothing compelling anymore.

Ztreem
04-03-2019, 03:16 AM
Not as high as cycles.. just saying :-)

Not as high as Unreal. but wait.. isn't Unreal free, so it is only used by cheap people!? Good that I'm cheap (using Blender & LW) so I can utilize it if I need. :D

Marander
04-03-2019, 03:47 AM
Not as high as Unreal. but wait.. isn't Unreal free, so it is only used by cheap people!? Good that I'm cheap (using Blender & LW) so I can utilize it if I need. :D

:-) haha no it's not cheap when you use something because it's best for your workflow. Using Blender, LightWave, Unreal, Unity, Blackmagic or Affinity software is not cheap if it's used for the right tasks where it excels. Otherwise I'm cheap because I use Linux everyday. But I'm using it where it makes sense, not because it's free.

Ztreem
04-03-2019, 03:52 AM
:-) haha no it's not cheap when you use something because it's best for your workflow. Using Blender, LightWave, Unreal, Unity, Blackmagic or Affinity software is not cheap if it's used for the right tasks where it excels. Otherwise I'm cheap because I use Linux everyday. But I'm using it where it makes sense, not because it's free.

Then we are on the same page. :)

rustythe1
04-03-2019, 04:08 AM
rustythe I have deep respect for the spaceships you created in LightWave. Still outstanding quality work for todays standards. You prove what can be achieved in LightWave, even though I think you would be more efficient in other applications. In the LW Gallery nowadays I see almost nothing compelling anymore.

thanks, that may be so depending on what you do, what i do now is probably a lot different to how i started, lightwave, zbrush and unreal are my main apps now and for the most part of what i do they are far better than max, c4d, revit, because a lot of my work involves tracing and fixing what other users have created in "those" apps and think they can get away with, so it ends up costing them far more in time because they cant fix the errors that the so called faster work flow tools introduce,
i don't doubt that in most fields the opposite would be true,

Tim Parsons
04-03-2019, 06:50 AM
After looking at all the press releases and investigating VisRT, it looks like the combined efforts of the two companies has a huge upside. And even if LW is a small potato in the whole affair, if it is profitable why would it go away. It may not get any extra resources, but if it shows a profit in its current structure and is easy to manage it should last forever. :)

hrgiger
04-03-2019, 07:14 AM
After looking at all the press releases and investigating VisRT, it looks like the combined efforts of the two companies has a huge upside. And even if LW is a small potato in the whole affair, if it is profitable why would it go away. It may not get any extra resources, but if it shows a profit in its current structure and is easy to manage it should last forever. :)

Do you believe LW to be profitable? I would doubt it. We've all heard that the video side of NT has been carrying LW for some time and Tim Jenison letting LW continue being the reason LW is still here. And of course Tim/NT just sold all their stock to VizRT. The thing that is telling to me in the language of this acquisition is that nothing is changed by this sale for LW. They fail to mention how LW is strengthened or helped by this acquisition. Which says to me they either haven't decided what to do with LW yet, or that they have no plans at this time. If they wanted to help LW, they would need to invest money and R & D into it and modernize its codebase and make it competitive again. Not merely let it flounder in existence forever like NT has been doing.

Tim Parsons
04-03-2019, 07:40 AM
Do you believe LW to be profitable? I would doubt it. We've all heard that the video side of NT has been carrying LW for some time and Tim Jenison letting LW continue being the reason LW is still here. And of course Tim/NT just sold all their stock to VizRT. The thing that is telling to me in the language of this acquisition is that nothing is changed by this sale for LW. They fail to mention how LW is strengthened or helped by this acquisition. Which says to me they either haven't decided what to do with LW yet, or that they have no plans at this time. If they wanted to help LW, they would need to invest money and R & D into it and modernize its codebase and make it competitive again. Not merely let it flounder in existence forever like NT has been doing.

Yeah - it probably is. LW development probably has about 2million give or take in payroll and other expenses a year so it only needs to sell about 5,000 upgrades a year to cover costs, the rest is gravy. In the US that's selling about 100 seats per year per state. The gravy comes from the rest of the world. :) Seems doable.

Nicolas Jordan
04-03-2019, 10:52 AM
I think Lightwave probably turns some profit at the moment especially since 2018 was released. The key is to put out a good release at least once a year that appeals to most users and keep that revenue flowing. If they can cover all the development and overhead costs with this and end up with some profit left over then I think Lightwave is doing ok. Looking back I think the years that hurt Lightwaves profitability were the long wait between LW 2015 and 2018.

prometheus
04-03-2019, 10:56 AM
And Vizrt also have an office in stockholm, though the map is completely off the charts, google map pinpoint is in the center of Stockholm City next to a statue of an old king Adolf, and the image shown on the Vizrt is showing the surrounding area next to that.
In reality Vizrt are located in Kista some mile away from Stockholm City, kista is kind of a science city... where many innovative companies have their place.

And for the record, Vizrt does have jobs announced in Kista, like coders, system developers and economic assistents.

https://www.vizrt.com/contact/vizrt-sweden


https://www.vizrt.com/dfsmedia/a593797820704dfa818698f3c1d479c4/2881-50037/resize/1400x0/options/keepaspectratio/vizrt-office-sweden-stockholm-1920x1080

Real surrounding image of the Location...
http://i.imgur.com/rkzlwCr.jpg?1

Nicolas Jordan
04-03-2019, 11:41 AM
I noticed a huge number of people viewing the forums at the moment. 6027 to be exact and only 27 of them logged in as members. Lots of eyes watching right now!

Asticles
04-03-2019, 12:00 PM
And everyone speculating!

Strange days...

Chuck
04-03-2019, 12:24 PM
I am more than a little concerned about this...


And hearing abut this news in the forum, posted by a user, strikes me as poor form. 'The Powers That Be' must have known that once the news slipped out, users would be wanting answers to reassure them. A week is a long time to make us wait for some sort of official announcement.

Businesses release news to the public via press releases, and that is proper form. As the acquiring company, Vizrt had precedence to issue the press release first, and did so. We subsequently echoed the press release on the NewTek web page later the same day. All of that is official and proper form for communications of company news to the public, including customers. That forum users would subsequently post about and discuss it is unsurprising. That you came across the news being discussed in the forum before you encountered the official sources is just happenstance.

Chuck
04-03-2019, 12:26 PM
I know this has already been posted in the Tricaster section but thought I'd mention it here as well so everyone knows about it:

https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/01/vizrt-acquisition-newtek/

https://www.vizrt.com/broadcasting/news-articles/vizrt-acquires-newtek

Although today is April 1st, the final line in the article in the second link states:

'Both companies will be presenting to customers, partners, and press at NAB on Sunday 7th April in the Las Vegas Convention Center North Hall. Executives from both companies will be included in order to give further details on the acquisition. '

This does suggest it is a genuine announcement and that full details should come out at the NAB presentation on Sunday 7th April. Lightwave isn't mentioned in either piece so hopefully some mention of it will be part of the presentation at NAB.

Question to the OP: Should I paste the comment I gave on LightWave's status expectations into the top post for the folks coming new to the thread?

Qexit
04-03-2019, 12:54 PM
Question to the OP: Should I paste the comment I gave on LightWave's status expectations into the top post for the folks coming new to the thread?Please do Chuck :)

Chuck
04-03-2019, 02:15 PM
Please do Chuck :)

Done! Thank you! :)

TheLexx
04-03-2019, 02:33 PM
So long story short, the rumours of Lightwave's death have been very much exaggerated, and LW is definitely not dead (any more than usual :D), and there definitely will be a LW 2020 (?). :)

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 02:45 PM
If lightwave is profitable then they will keep it if it isn't then why would they.

TheLexx
04-03-2019, 02:58 PM
If lightwave is profitable then they will keep it if it isn't then why would they.

To specifically see if they can improve it ? It was mentioned that Vizrt users tend to use Cinema 4D, but Vizrt now have their own in-house capability. Surely LW is now clearly an asset and not something to decide just in a few short months ? :)

3D Kiwi
04-03-2019, 03:01 PM
Again it will come down to money. It would take alot of work to get lightwave up to C4D esp in motion graphics which is what I am guessing they use C4D for.
Time will tell.

Nicolas Jordan
04-03-2019, 03:25 PM
To specifically see if they can improve it ? It was mentioned that Vizrt users tend to use Cinema 4D, but Vizrt now have their own in-house capability. Surely LW is now clearly an asset and not something to decide just in a few short months ? :)

I sure hope Vizrt sees Lightwave as a huge asset and a 3D software that can be further developed to not only meet the needs of broadcast but to also continue to meet the needs of all users that create various forms of media & visuals with it.

robertoortiz
04-03-2019, 03:31 PM
I sure hope Vizrt sees Lightwave as a huge asset and a 3D software that can be further developed to not only meet the needs of broadcast but to also continue to meet the needs of all users that create various forms of media & visuals with it.
Not only that, it allows them a leg up into development content for FUTURE markets. Augmented reality and VR 3d content has to be created somehow.

erikals
04-03-2019, 03:31 PM
a somewhat fact is;

- LightWave will benefit from this
- LightWave will not benefit from this

it might be for the worse, it might be for the better.

https://i.imgur.com/4p7sHC4.gif

pick one https://i.imgur.com/jeTbLvW.gif

robertoortiz
04-03-2019, 03:46 PM
a somewhat fact is;

- LightWave will benefit from this
- LightWave will not benefit from this

it might be for the worse, it might be for the better.

https://i.imgur.com/4p7sHC4.gif

pick one https://i.imgur.com/jeTbLvW.gif

You can guess with me... :)

erikals
04-03-2019, 04:21 PM
You can guess with me... :)

Absolutely no idea :) hopefully you don't have this vision fading in and out...

https://i.imgur.com/0MMu6VL.jpg

TheLexx
04-03-2019, 04:58 PM
I sure hope Vizrt sees Lightwave as a huge asset and a 3D software that can be further developed to not only meet the needs of broadcast but to also continue to meet the needs of all users that create various forms of media & visuals with it.

Totally agree. There is a tendency to only look at what each company does as existing, but maybe it should be seen as more of a cross-fertilization. I don't know the finer points of what Mr Jenison owned or sold, or how much money Visrt has tp "play with" (I suspect a lot), but the verdict from Redsharknews (https://www.redsharknews.com/business/item/6251-vizrt-buys-newtek-in-one-of-the-biggest-disruptive-moves-for-decades)was very much joint growth. :)

AnimeJoex
04-03-2019, 08:16 PM
So long story short, the rumours of Lightwave's death have been very much exaggerated, and LW is definitely not dead (any more than usual :D), and there definitely will be a LW 2020 (?). :)

There will be a LightWave 2020. With a nice, beautiful Unity bridge! ;) :D

slv
04-04-2019, 02:39 AM
Many people here have a positive attitude based on hope, others have less beautiful visions. As an architect, I usually accompany my clients, my work partners. That is why it is important for me, and of course together, to show that we accompany Newtek's leaders, to show that we are enthusiastic and that we hope to take advantage of this "marriage" to grow even more. Yes, we can argue, yes we can express fears, but it must be said without hurting the opinion, it will be more profitable for everyone, if we show together that we are ready to follow and grow with Lightwave Under this new situation, show in the eyes of all, what we will still be faithful. This attitude will give positive arguments for further developing Lightwave. it's my way of being grateful to Newtek, its leaders and developers. We do not shoot in the foot to the tool that makes us earn money and live / support our family.
sylvain

Sekhar
04-04-2019, 12:57 PM
1) Blender was not the only software used in that film, they also used Houdini, FumeFX, Substance etc., so it wasn't possible using Blender alone and
2) yes Blender certainly helped making the film production cheaper (not saying that the end result looks bad and I like also the official Blender short films)
3) big Studios and productions like that have usually develop their own tools in addition

Yeah, Blender contributed for only 95% of the movie and just for niche stuff like modeling, texturing, rigging, animation, dynamics, effects, rendering, editing, compositing...obviously nothing to rave about. "Real" products like Maya, Houdini, and Substance routinely contribute for 100% of projects by themselves. BTW, Blender Animation just released today another movie (Spring), in which I'm sure Blender played a minor role again...but they'll brag about it. Remember, what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve about, so best not to learn about Blender.

ianr
04-05-2019, 09:41 AM
QUOTE DR.CROSS web interview by Zak Dillon Apr5th @ Newscaststudio

Where does this acquisition leave Lightwave 3D?


So, that is a really good question, and I need to just be completely honest and say you know,
every last detail of every last product has not been fully ironed out.
We have every part of live streaming, and coding, transcoding, media playback, recording.
You take that, combine that with everything Vizrt have …
Which is everything from augmented reality to virtual reality, to graphics… and put Lightwave into that,
what we have is a joint entity that spans really, every part of the market of which 3D and Lightwave is clearly part.

Five years from now, do we expect Lightwave to be exactly as it is today? I would say we’ve failed if it is.
I think that we need to honestly look at the Lightwave technology, which is an amazing technology,
and work out how it plays a bigger role.

https://www.newscaststudio.com/2019/04/05/andrew-cross-newtek-vizrt-acquisition/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost&fbclid=IwAR29GCcyflquLD_AIoUte4H4-hIFiCdxFk9fhCi6OhBl4Xcv1FqP4_hzJME

robertGL
04-05-2019, 09:49 AM
I say sell it off if they won't make new versions. Otherwise, slash thep price and provide service updates for the rest of eternity.

gar26lw
04-05-2019, 10:28 AM
QUOTE DR.CROSS web interview by Zak Dillon Apr5th @ Newscaststudio

Where does this acquisition leave Lightwave 3D?

So, that is a really good question, and I need to just be completely honest and say you know,
every last detail of every last product has not been fully ironed out.

Glad I am not a developer. :(



Five years from now, do we expect Lightwave to be exactly as it is today? I would say we’ve failed if it is.
I think that we need to honestly look at the Lightwave technology, which is an amazing technology,
and work out how it plays a bigger role.

translation - no idea how it fits with anything we care about. Can you read that any other way ? you tell me. :(

hypersuperduper
04-05-2019, 10:42 AM
It is simply the art of saying nothing in as many words as possible. Dr Cross would do well in politics I imagine.

Asticles
04-05-2019, 11:05 AM
What seems to me is that they don't want LW as currently is.

AnimeJoex
04-05-2019, 11:28 AM
One worst case scenario 5 years from now:

Adobe LightWave CC 2024 :p

squarewulf
04-05-2019, 11:34 AM
One worst case scenario 5 years from now:

Adobe LightWave CC 2024 :p

Honestly, i'd rather that than see it die altogether.

paulk
04-05-2019, 11:37 AM
BTW, how does one pronounce "Vizrt"? Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel.

robertoortiz
04-05-2019, 12:12 PM
What seems to me is that they don't want LW as currently is.

Something we all can agree with. What direction it should take? Well that is another story.

One worst case scenario 5 years from now:

Adobe LightWave CC 2024 :p
To be honest I have been expecting for the past Decade to go to a SIGGRAPH and hear an announcement of
Cinema 4D CC 20XX.
I still think it will happen eventually.

hrgiger
04-05-2019, 12:21 PM
QUOTE DR.CROSS web interview by Zak Dillon Apr5th @ Newscaststudio

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Five years from now, do we expect Lightwave to be exactly as it is today? I would say we’ve failed if it is.
I think that we need to honestly look at the Lightwave technology, which is an amazing technology,
and work out how it plays a bigger role.




Translation is, we really haven't thought about it, but if I say 5 years, that should buy us enough time to keep people buying a few more versions before they catch on.

TheLexx
04-05-2019, 12:21 PM
translation - no idea how it fits with anything we care about. Can you read that any other way ? you tell me. :(
I translate that some of the decision will be with Vizrt, but the merger is still new, hence undecided. I think LW will continue, so I will put aside funds for Vizwave 2020 with Vizgami Toolset. :D

jwiede
04-05-2019, 12:59 PM
I translate that some of the decision will be with Vizrt, but the merger is still new, hence undecided.

Which is essentially the same as what gar26lw said.

Point is, clearly LW did not play a significant role in why Vizrt acquired Newtek -- were it otherwise, it would have been discussed already, and Cross says it wasn't. LW is just "an additional product that Newtek produces" in Vizrt's eyes.

Historically, the outcomes for such "additional products" after mergers/acquisitions are generally negative, but maybe LW will be the exception.

TheLexx
04-05-2019, 01:30 PM
Understood jwiede, I was trying to imply that no-desision doesn't necessarily mean LW is not "anything we care about". I suspect that LW has a lean modular quality to development in that someone, somewhere, post-Rob/Lino, is still making the decisions what to develop for each yearly release, and I think that process can just trundle along even LW is not particularly profitable for now (though as long as it is not a multi-million dollar sink-hole either). :)

RebelHill
04-05-2019, 01:42 PM
BTW, how does one pronounce "Vizrt"?

It's Norwegian... so its kinda like... "Veeze-Rutt". (rhymes with sneeze butt)

You need try saying it with the put on viking accent to get it. Roll the R a lil.

gdkeast
04-05-2019, 01:50 PM
I am cautiously optimistic and I'm reminded of some of direction Chilton's work was going with LightWave and VR and Augmented Reality, Glycon and all that. Vizrt's tagline seems to be "unleash visual storytelling" and to me, that's what LW has always been about. All of these technologies are emerging quickly. Unity's software updates nearly every couple of weeks and I can't keep up with it. From the news article I read, New Tek and LightWave will keep their names, the company will remain based in San Antonio, and according to this thread, no imminent plans to stop development. Even as a for-profit, I can't imagine Vizrt's doesn't see the legacy and value of LW, and fortunately, for LW, it is a very modular system. One that could be adapted to be more in line with VR, AR, and Glycon kind of things. I saw something very similar happen with Sony Vegas Pro. Development seem to slow and eventually Vegas was sold to Berlin-based Magix, which then took over and made great strides at improving the process. Development teams were kept in the US and Germany and they work jointly. It was a little bumpy, but now Vegas seems to be getting its footing back. I'm crossing my fingers its the same thing here. I am hoping that Vizrt's sees the value in LW and realizes with some TLC it fits in with their vision and model or at least complements it. I do agree that being supportive of them is helpful and I too will be looking at their products more closely now. Here's to wishing Vizrt much success in these regards.

http://www.siliconhillsnews.com/2019/04/03/san-antonio-based-newtek-acquired-by-norwegian-based-vizrt/

prometheus
04-05-2019, 02:16 PM
It's Norwegian... so its kinda like... "Veeze-Rutt". (rhymes with sneeze butt)

You need try saying it with the put on viking accent to get it. Roll the R a lil.

Just found out today that me and my siblings have DNA related to a Norwegian origin ..about 35%, mostly 65 % swedish, and there is also some Irish origins as well,and some more...have to wait to get the map chart from my brother though.
I still don´t get the Veeze-rutt:)

ELinder
04-05-2019, 03:24 PM
I have a hard time believing that one company would purchase another without taking a very long hard look at all of the target's assets in detail. If it's true they haven't even talked about Lightwave yet it only shows how small a fish it is in a now even larger pond. I can't see LW continuing to evolve in its current form or direction. I'm thinking this may be the opportunity to use my Core upgrade discount one last time.

ACross
04-05-2019, 04:18 PM
Point is, clearly LW did not play a significant role in why Vizrt acquired Newtek -- were it otherwise, it would have been discussed already, and Cross says it wasn't. LW is just "an additional product that Newtek produces" in Vizrt's eyes.

That is not exactly what Cross said :) What I said is that there are a lot of amazing technologies in both companies that detailed plans need to be made for and Lightwave is one of those technologies.

I know everyone wants all the answers, I do as well, but also the reality is that you bring companies together with a market strategy and I think we have actually been pretty clear what that is; maybe clearer than 90% of all companies that merge or acquire. That strategy then impacts almost every area of the company ... ranging from whether you use shared letter-head, whether you use one web site, up to what the product strategies are. The details of that strategy are worked on over time and this is entirely normal, no-one should interpret this as some hidden plot or nefarious scheme (but I really did like some of the conspiracy theories in this thread, and I also know that a lot of people will never beleive any of what we say anyway).

Finally, one message that comes through loud and clear on these forums is that Lightwave users want to see some change; this is change and while we do not know every last detail and there is no way that we can ever do everything for everyone, we love Lightwave as much or more than anyone and have shown that in our steadfast commitment to it for 20+ years both when it is doing well and when it is not.

Feel free to beat me or NewTek up, that is fine ;) But feel free to help us shape the future and make suggestions as well .

Andrew

erikals
04-05-2019, 05:27 PM
i Completely understand that even a rough layout cannot be presented at this time.

further, if it was, i wouldn't believe it.

all we can do is stay positive and look forward.


It's Norwegian...
the name, they copied the English "Viz" and "RT"(realtime) so no Norwegian influence there. (unfortunately ?)

Viking style pronunciation is [Hviss-Ahrrt]

https://i.imgur.com/MMc43tf.gif

gdkeast
04-05-2019, 06:46 PM
I would like to add that while I totally understand that a business is a business and needs to make money, I also realize that not everyone in successful businesses is in it just for the money. Some business leaders have a vision or a passion for what they are doing and while they might be making money in one area, they are willing to take a hit in others because they believe in what they are doing.

If you look at Blender, that is supposedly all about the vision and passion and has nothing to do with money, but even they need to ask for donations to keep things afloat. I look at Amazon and Jeff Bezos and again, he is taking a loss on certain things simply because he has a passion and vision or whatever you want to call it.

I sincerely hope that Vizrt is the same way. That it is about having a vision and being passionate about what they are doing, and while I get the need to make money, I hope that's not what it is all about. There's Wall Street and hedge funds if that's the primary interest.

If I were wealthy, I'd buy LightWave myself and promote it.

Vizrt has it now and I am trusting they can not only see its potential, but its legacy and what it means to the people who still use it.

hypersuperduper
04-06-2019, 02:10 AM
To point out the obvious: Vizrt did not just acquire lightwave it also has all of Newtek including Newtek management. So whatever Vizrt intends for lightwave will likely be basically what Newtek intends for lightwave. I doubt Vizrt is going to go in and start telling the guys in Texas how to manage their teams because that is a great way to wreck a company (unless things start falling apart, at which point all bets are off) I don’t think this changes a whole lot of the calculus for lightwave honestly.

RebelHill
04-06-2019, 03:41 AM
the name, they copied the English "Viz" and "RT"(realtime) so no Norwegian influence there.

Oh its a gag... yknow, when someone asks how some weird word is pronounced and you tell em some complete nonsense in the hope they'll actually try using it... for the lulz.

erikals
04-06-2019, 03:56 AM
hope they change it though, no fan of Vizrt [VissUhrt]


update; found that the Norwegian company was sold to Nordic Capital, a company of Swedish origin.

damn Swedes... :grumpy:

safarifx
04-06-2019, 04:57 AM
i Completely understand that even a rough layout cannot be presented at this time.

further, if it was, i wouldn't believe it.

all we can do is stay positive and look forward.


the name, they copied the English "Viz" and "RT"(realtime) so no Norwegian influence there. (unfortunately ?)

Viking style pronunciation is [Hviss-Ahrrt]

https://i.imgur.com/MMc43tf.gif

call it WIZARD! (or in german „Hexenmeister“ or "Zauberer")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard

snip safx

erikals
04-06-2019, 05:02 AM
Agree, way better! https://i.imgur.com/jeTbLvW.gif

OnlineRender
04-06-2019, 05:52 AM
... But feel free to help us shape the future and make suggestions as well .

Andrew

I'll bite: :2guns:

<1> Fix the forum, start with a decent new theme, implement image uploads and thumbnails displayed directly inside the board * like we have been suggesting for 5 years* an even better idea would be to actually segregate and build a LightWave dedicated forum
<2> Enable LightWave Apprentice - Free - aimed towards schools / new users **grassroots**
<3> Introduce 10 hours of basic training orientated around the fundamentals of LightWave
<4> Fix the box art that is being circulated, it's embarrassing
<5> Bring back merchandize, Wavers love a good T-shirt
<6> Design and create an eco system for uploads and presets
<7> Watching Tutorial Tuesday for Tricaster enlightens me somewhat an yet frustrates oneself, why the hell cant the same effort and attention be shown towards LW?
<8> Social Media - that's all whole can of worms but you seriously need to up your game, there's top quality artist(s) producing outstanding work and it's brushed aside or completely neglected, why ?
<9> The Facebook group I built up over 7 years is now in your court, yet you fail to pick up the ball and play ... <disclaimer> although I see an uptrend in staff-user interaction <>
<10> for a broadcasting/leading tech company it infuriates me that you have no interaction with your user base * hangouts * live streaming * interviews * ANYTHING !
<11> on the subject of user interaction, whenever a staff member does engage they are so hamstrung tiptoeing around NTeks red-tape and political minefield, we never get an honest or straight answer, it's always marketing spiel 101 and I can assure you the community reject this and see right through it...
<12> all the little division and factions you inadvertently created when you split the community during core development needs to be amended and brought back under one banner
<12.5> I'll skip 13 because because you need all the luck you can get... but I'll reiterate just to echo my feelings MAKE LW FREE FOR SCHOOLS
<14> you will notice a downtrend in 3rd party developers, that burden lays completely on your shoulders, the incentive to make plugins and tools is diminishing faster than this post
<15> Midweek highlights / NEWS, it takes me 30 mins to sit down once a week and curate a bunch of awesome stuff that your user base generantes,with official channel / backing /branding, the reach would 10 fold are you honestly telling me you can't afford the time or staff for this task ?
<16> The quality of tutorials being delivered of late has been outstanding, yet you fail to capitalize, there's an array of top artists willing to spend time and effort helping the community, yet you still fail to see and leverage this.
<17> yearly international LW users meetup, I recommend Amsterdam as its central for most europeans, i've been to more of these meet and greets than your own staff " that's telling" ... they are good fun.
<18> A budget for artists to create a techdemo / animation " you know since its an animation tool "
<19> A demoreel that dosn't make LW look like its still stuck in the 90's
<20> official acknowledgement from Vizrt that they actually know we exists...

I aint even going to indulge in the software aspect ....

erikals
04-06-2019, 06:21 AM
some of my favorites copied >

<2> Enable LightWave Apprentice - Free - aimed towards schools / new users **grassroots**
<6> Design and create an eco system for uploads and presets
<7> Watching Tutorial Tuesday for Tricaster enlightens me somewhat, why the hell cant the same effort and attention be shown towards LW?
<9> The Facebook group I built up over 7 years is now in your court, yet you fail to pick up the ball and play ... <disclaimer> although I see an uptrend in staff-user interaction
<10> for a broadcasting/leading tech company it infuriates me that you have no interaction with your user base
<14> you will notice a downtrend in 3rd party developers, that burden lays completely on your shoulders
<17> yearly international LW users meetup, I recommend Amsterdam as its central for most europeans,.. they are good fun.
<19> A demoreel that doesn't make LW look like its still stuck in the 90's
<20> official acknowledgement from Vizrt that they actually know we exists...

bazsa73
04-06-2019, 06:36 AM
The end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4

erikals
04-06-2019, 06:45 AM
meh.

we're far from that conclusion.

that's like saying we won't land humans on Mars the first 10 years. it might happen, it might not.

gar26lw
04-06-2019, 07:27 AM
I aint even going to indulge in the software aspect ....

please do, while you are on a roll. all good points.

my 2c on lw dev:

i think i would ponder on einstein’s definition of insanity.

my notes:

read, listen, reflect.

speed of dev, ux, blindingly good open minded programmers with a passion, engaged, end user driven development, professional marketing. in house artists (no lw fanboys! some other really top class artists) driving dev from hands on projects that highlight the issues and problems faced in various real world multi app projects and workflows, using those projects to promote lw, provide content for training etc.

tbh, i think you need to really consider what the team that left did all those years ago, how they went about development and just how it is that they arrived at a unified product, marketed it, provided training etc.. just look at that.

paulk
04-06-2019, 07:43 AM
Oh its a gag... yknow, when someone asks how some weird word is pronounced and you tell em some complete nonsense in the hope they'll actually try using it... for the lulz.

My initial thought was it's a comic book sound effect, for when (insert your favorite villan) fires some monstrous weapon, unleasing an overwhelming flood of Kirby Crackle and Kirby Dots. Viz-ERT!

erikals
04-06-2019, 08:08 AM
or...

https://i.imgur.com/el99J9q.png

rustythe1
04-06-2019, 08:15 AM
I translate that some of the decision will be with Vizrt, but the merger is still new, hence undecided. I think LW will continue, so I will put aside funds for Vizwave 2020 with Vizgami Toolset. :D

looks like it could have been going on in the back ground for some time though being as they just launched new hardware with vizrt stuff inside,

robertoortiz
04-06-2019, 08:40 AM
looks like it could have been going on in the back ground for some time though being as they just launched new hardware with vizrt stuff inside,

...and the surprising unreal export tool in LW

TheLexx
04-06-2019, 08:42 AM
looks like it could have been going on in the back ground for some time though being as they just launched new hardware with vizrt stuff inside,

My mind is boggling over what is theoretically possible now. My understanding at present - with LW/Unreal a real person can drive a realistic digital character in realtime - but with LW/Vizrt it is about getting a real person into Unreal in realtime. As the technologies converge I wonder about some unholy combination where a real person is interacting with a digital character in realtime....like live acting with replicants (!). Fascinating stuff anyway. :)

ianr
04-06-2019, 09:28 AM
That is not exactly what Cross said :) What I said is that there are a lot of amazing technologies in both companies that detailed plans need to be made for and Lightwave is one of those technologies.

I know everyone wants all the answers, I do as well, but also the reality is that you bring companies together with a market strategy and I think we have actually been pretty clear what that is; maybe clearer than 90% of all companies that merge or acquire. That strategy then impacts almost every area of the company ... ranging from whether you use shared letter-head, whether you use one web site, up to what the product strategies are. The details of that strategy are worked on over time and this is entirely normal, no-one should interpret this as some hidden plot or nefarious scheme (but I really did like some of the conspiracy theories in this thread, and I also know that a lot of people will never beleive any of what we say anyway).

Finally, one message that comes through loud and clear on these forums is that Lightwave users want to see some change; this is change and while we do not know every last detail and there is no way that we can ever do everything for everyone, we love Lightwave as much or more than anyone and have shown that in our steadfast commitment to it for 20+ years both when it is doing well and when it is not.

Feel free to beat me or NewTek up, that is fine ;) But feel free to help us shape the future and make suggestions as well .

Andrew

Thank U Dr.Cross. Problem here is, long term soured involvement (users) will need later a short term

road map like Side Effects can deliver. Black LW box no-data reveals are so yesterday

& corrosive which brings out the blenderists & the modoists flamers with soured reactions into this forum.

Many highy-qualified people have embraced LW in the past I hope you can re-attract them back with

expanding tutorial materials & marketing properly into areas where it is seen and noted not just a

belated afterthoughts pinned on the donkey. Wishing good luck & congrats in your new position, when

your settled in, give some T.L.C to LW2020 ?

robertoortiz
04-06-2019, 09:33 AM
My mind is boggling over what is theoretically possible now. My understanding at present - with LW/Unreal a real person can drive a realistic digital character in realtime - but with LW/Vizrt it is about getting a real person into Unreal in realtime. As the technologies converge I wonder about some unholy combination where a real person is interacting with a digital character in realtime....like live acting with replicants (!). Fascinating stuff anyway. :)

Wanna be impressed?
Look at what unreal is working on in terms of performance capture. (HellBlade game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbQSpfWUs4I

hrgiger
04-06-2019, 10:40 AM
Oh are we back to making suggestions and believing NT is listening to us? Where have they been for the last 20 years? I mean, you might want to check the millions of requests for modeling improvements over that time, or the calls for bridging the gap between modeler/layout/integration, or people begging you to actually advertise or market LW, or to have some clear idea of where the product was heading in any way.... How many people were asking for a completely new renderer before that was presented? I don't remember any calls for it.

Oh well, new company now, maybe VizRT will take an active interest in LW other than being treated like an afterthought to their line of video products. Then again, maybe they will also.

TheLexx
04-06-2019, 11:09 AM
Oh are we back to making suggestions and believing NT is listening to us? Where have they been for the last 20 years?
But some off them ran off and made Modo for you - if that isn't listening, I don't know what is. :D

SBowie
04-06-2019, 11:37 AM
looks like it could have been going on in the back ground for some time though being as they just launched new hardware with vizrt stuff inside,That product has been out for some time, actually. We've done a lot of 'partner products' along these lines in recent years.

rustythe1
04-06-2019, 12:39 PM
yea, my mistake, the internet keeps giving me timely advertisements based on browsing and presented the advert on FB as if it had just been released,
actually advertising on FB has gotten scary as a friend and I proved that skype calls seem to be now using voice recognition to target advertising, we talked about some hardware over skype of which I had never browsed or searched for, and low and behold adverts for the hardware appeared all over FB, the same happened with some printing tech a while back and I thought it was just coincidence as I have searched for a fair few other related things, but the second time there were two different products and both came up! looking into it I did find google had already filed a patent for this exact thing, but it was abandoned literally a couple of months ago! (maybe Microsoft got there first!)

VonBon
04-06-2019, 03:38 PM
Ideas: Wouldn't want any good ones to get stolen by the competition.

UI Design will be Key if the goal is to integrate LW with their VR/AR systems.
The UI has to be a priority. (but this also depends on how they wanna use LW)

Modeling would seem to be the part they are lacking if they want to sell an all in one
solution from Vizrt. (new modeling system needs to be tightly connected to the UI)

Before serious Ideas can be given, we need to know if LW is planned to still be a
standalone product or if it is to be integrated into Vizrts current technology.

Rayek
04-06-2019, 04:05 PM
Ideas: Wouldn't want any good ones to get stolen by the competition.



https://www.inc.com/greg-satell/heres-why-you-shouldnt-worry-about-people-stealing.html

It's really the last thing to worry about at this stage of Lightwave's development (that is outside the LW community and Newtek). NO ONE CARES. It's a fallacy and actually in most cases count-productive to keep ideas to yourself.

Ideation works best when shared, and is prolific in diverse communities where cross-pollination of ideas occur.

Not saying you wouldn't want to guard specific implementation details, and so on, but in general: no-one cares about your ideas. Even if they are great ones, most will be unable to identify them as such.

VonBon
04-06-2019, 04:07 PM
If they are a private company, then they may actually keep LW in their portfolio.

I would ask, what is the size of the current LW Dev Team, and how much
does it cost to operate compared to what our profit margin is or a tax write off.

LW has Potential, that's why people who don't use LW anymore still come here :question:

They can be innovative in my opinion. I wonder what they could do if they had
more resources and time so they can FOCUS on an area so the Competition
can't quickly adapt. That'll give whatever they come up with time to infiltrate
the market. And while the competition is playing catchup, the Devs can already
be pushing the next innovative Idea/workflow.

Like my Pops always say.
"Don't worry bout how much it cost, think about how much you can make"

SBowie
04-06-2019, 04:08 PM
Before serious Ideas can be given, we need to know if LW is planned to still be a
standalone product or if it is to be integrated into Vizrts current technology.Since, at this moment, there isn't a single human on the planet who knows what Vizrt will do, I think you make an excellent point. There may be some value in offering ideas anyway, if for no other reason than that it conveys an impression of the community and their interests. But it's very early days, and I don't think 'fix Modeler, fix forum thumbnails, etc., etc.' are the sort of the out of the box ideas that would get anyone excited.

I must say, though, that - while I certainly understand some expressing a 'Let's wait and see, don't get excited, this could all go south' attitude - I nevertheless find it very hard to imagine a constructive purpose for some of the 'snark' in this thread ... unless it's to allow the writers to feel like they told someone off AND simultaneously convince Vizrt that there is too much toxicity around the brand to bother with.

bitshift
04-06-2019, 05:04 PM
Since, at this moment, there isn't a single human on the planet who knows what Vizrt will do, I think you make an excellent point.

That's "Like a Splinter in Your Mind". For users now, or user contemplating jumping aboard. ... Clarity from above would help a lot. Even if its at the end of the month...

wingzeta
04-06-2019, 05:16 PM
I don't think 'fix Modeler, fix forum thumbnails, etc., etc.' are the sort of the out of the box ideas that would get anyone excited.

Don't care about the "old school" forum, but "Fix Modeler" is pretty much what is needed to put LW back in the big leagues. It's not a sexy marketing point to say "we caught up" but, it's what has to be done. It needs to be modernized, and that should take priority over any flash in the pan VR gimmick features or whatever. Vizrt already seems to have the VR stuff covered anyway. They don't have a modern 3D modeling software though. ...but they could, and that would make a lot of us happy. Just to be clear, I'm not calling VR a gimmick, but the type of limited use tools that get added to many softwares, so that they can hype the latest version when, the app has long outstanding gaps in capabilities that are keeping it from being a viable threat to the competition. So yes, fix modeler, add GPU rendering within Layout (possibly using Unreal) and unify, or enable unified capabilities through modeler/layout communication. And you know what that means? The key to all this is..........

THE HUB! Okay, I may be joking about the hub, although imagine the hub was powerful enough to negate the need for unification. It is just about the capabilities and the speed at which they can be executed. I don't care how you get there. How is that for out of the box? Who's ready for the Hub rewrite?

gar26lw
04-06-2019, 06:08 PM
Oh are we back to making suggestions and believing NT is listening to us? Where have they been for the last 20 years? I mean, you might want to check the millions of requests for modeling improvements over that time, or the calls for bridging the gap between modeler/layout/integration, or people begging you to actually advertise or market LW, or to have some clear idea of where the product was heading in any way.... How many people were asking for a completely new renderer before that was presented? I don't remember any calls for it.

Oh well, new company now, maybe VizRT will take an active interest in LW other than being treated like an afterthought to their line of video products. Then again, maybe they will also.

yep, they have not given their customers what they want and surprise surprise, look what happened. own worst enemy etc.

SBowie
04-06-2019, 06:10 PM
Don't care about the "old school" forum ...Some do, and my post wasn't meant to knock them (personally, I will be extremely happy if I can make it to my grave without ever being forced to create a Facebook account).

But I don't think re-hashing a list of things that have been raised here endlessly is particularly useful at this juncture. NewTek, and from what I've seen Visrt too, are interested in game-changing ideas and technologies. This is not to say that the 'basics' aren't important, but I don't think that's the sort of thinking that will excite either company.


Clarity from above would help a lot. Even if its at the end of the month...It probably will be at the end of "a" month, but certainly not this one nor, I expect, the one after that. It's very early days.

Asticles
04-07-2019, 05:13 AM
Look, I somehow work in the entertainment world, doing 3d for events and conventions, and what I see of the people who we rent to do the multimedia infographics, is that they need a lot of speed generating content. Realism does not prevail, only effectiveness, even if the final result is not realistic. I've seen the same in the Vizrt videos.

Therefore, I believe that some solutions are needed to offer that versatility, above all. How? In my opinion, generating procedural content, as does cinema4d or houdini.

In this case, I think the key is the nodes. And that may be the solution. Abandon the development of the Modeler and create a system of nodes from layout that allows to model, texturize and animate based on procedural systems.

I'm not asking to do a houdini, but almost yes. I think Layout has the power, with its engine, to get to it, but certain conditions have to be met. The first is that all nodes and properties should be accessible from any other node, to create cross-references.

And the second, to unify the nodal interface so that everything goes to the same point. It is not that you have in one side displacement nodes, other animation nodes, etc. But having them in a unique nodal window (which can be a similar to the "schemetic view"), where you can access all the nodes of the program.

Also, everything should be as simple as possible, and unified, so that the user does not have to be learning workarounds and tricks to do something that others easily do.

Greetings

sadkkf
04-07-2019, 08:27 AM
Any word on what will happen to NT employees? Are they going to need to relocate or...worse? Mergers always mean layoffs and relocations, but I hope this is the exception.

gar26lw
04-07-2019, 08:31 AM
Some do, and my post wasn't meant to knock them (personally, I will be extremely happy if I can make it to my grave without ever being forced to create a Facebook account).


+100 respect & admiration :) Thank **** someone is normal.

gar26lw
04-07-2019, 08:33 AM
Look, I somehow work in the entertainment world, doing 3d for events and conventions, and what I see of the people who we rent to do the multimedia infographics, is that they need a lot of speed generating content. Realism does not prevail, only effectiveness, even if the final result is not realistic. I've seen the same in the Vizrt videos.

Therefore, I believe that some solutions are needed to offer that versatility, above all. How? In my opinion, generating procedural content, as does cinema4d or houdini.

In this case, I think the key is the nodes. And that may be the solution. Abandon the development of the Modeler and create a system of nodes from layout that allows to model, texturize and animate based on procedural systems.

I'm not asking to do a houdini, but almost yes. I think Layout has the power, with its engine, to get to it, but certain conditions have to be met. The first is that all nodes and properties should be accessible from any other node, to create cross-references.

And the second, to unify the nodal interface so that everything goes to the same point. It is not that you have in one side displacement nodes, other animation nodes, etc. But having them in a unique nodal window (which can be a similar to the "schemetic view"), where you can access all the nodes of the program.

Also, everything should be as simple as possible, and unified, so that the user does not have to be learning workarounds and tricks to do something that others easily do.

Greetings

ok, well if you are going to do that, how about you make modo hook to layout via the hub and we get a kick *** combo ? if no love for modeller.

But tbh, I dont really want that. I like my LW in its entirety and would appreciate some modeller love since a lot of work is done there.

Totally agree with the nodal approach to the app, makes sense to have all nodes exist in a common framework. Perhaps if nodal is behind the scenes, we get simple UI and fast content creation with the addition of the "nodes" button that opens up the scope to link and drive anything from anything in modeller and layout. that would be pretty sweet. I think 2015 was going in the right direction there - keep is simple, stupid and then have the nodal button when you wanted to have real control at the expense of speed.

erikals
04-07-2019, 08:43 AM
Any word on what will happen to NT employees?
nope.

way too early to say. maybe by LW2020 we will know.

i'll assume there will be one.

-------------------------------------

speculation boost mode: [on]

a question arises, if LightWave should be merged into other Vizrt products,
though i highly doubt it, since we haven't even seen a Modeler / Layout merge because of M/L coding obstacles,
therefore i find a merge/integration even less likely to happen to any other app.

you never know, but it must be very unlikely considering the massive amount of work it would be.

speculation mode: [off]

-------------------------------------

on a positive note, having read online what Vizrt is all about, i can't see why they shouldn't be interested in many aspects of LightWave.

 https://i.imgur.com/tJGL61i.png

gar26lw
04-07-2019, 08:53 AM
care to make it interesting ? :P

erikals
04-07-2019, 08:57 AM
you mean >

speculation mode: [on] ?

no, not interested   https://i.imgur.com/OCcnS6F.gif

gar26lw
04-07-2019, 09:00 AM
aww, boring :)

erikals
04-07-2019, 09:04 AM
feel free to write where LightWave should improve though.

> listening

:)

Bill Carey
04-07-2019, 09:47 AM
Lightwave-wise we'll see what happens. The only thing I'd like to know about is the present, is the lightwave development team coming to work everyday and are they working towards a next point release with fixes and or features. If they are the future is as bright as it was. If they are I'll be waiting for the next upgrade cycle with a little cash in my hand. Move on, wait and see.

safarifx
04-07-2019, 12:04 PM
Agree, way better! https://i.imgur.com/jeTbLvW.gif

:)

snip safx

Asticles
04-07-2019, 01:12 PM
PANEL EVENT SUNDAY 7th APRIL 5:30PM - NEWTEK COMMUNITY EVENT 'Together We Change the World: A glimpse into the future'

Any news? Oh, 12pm there. We're already at 21 pm in spain. :P

Nicolas Jordan
04-07-2019, 01:24 PM
PANEL EVENT SUNDAY 7th APRIL 5:30PM - NEWTEK COMMUNITY EVENT 'Together We Change the World: A glimpse into the future'

Any news? Oh, 12pm there. We're already at 21 pm in spain. :P

Is there going to be a live stream of this? I haven't found anything yet.

rustythe1
04-07-2019, 01:34 PM
Is there going to be a live stream of this? I haven't found anything yet.

missed a trick there, being the nature of the business

Paul_Boland
04-07-2019, 01:35 PM
I too am interested in what news comes today of Lightwave's future. When is it supposed to be happen?

SBowie
04-07-2019, 02:13 PM
Any word on what will happen to NT employees? Are they going to need to relocate or...worse?I can't quote verbatim, but generally we've been told that Newtek is staying right where it is, largely staffed as-is for the next while; and that we will eventually be joined in San Antonio by some of those currently at our new parent company's North American head office.

The intention is that the 'marriage' will grow both companies, not diminishing either. We're told that this may mean more diverse opportunity for some NewTek staff, so so far, so good.

Paul_Boland
04-07-2019, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the update!

Qexit
04-07-2019, 02:40 PM
I too am interested in what news comes today of Lightwave's future. When is it supposed to be happen?The presentation at NAB is happening from 6pm till 8pm over in Las Vegas. So it starts at 1.00am GMT. Only Newtek know what the content will be though :)

https://www.newtek.com/nab2019/community-event/

jwiede
04-07-2019, 03:03 PM
I can't quote verbatim, but generally we've been told that Newtek is staying right where it is, largely staffed as-is for the next while; and that we will eventually be joined in San Antonio by some of those currently at our new parent company's North American head office.

The intention is that the 'marriage' will grow both companies, not diminishing either. We're told that this may mean more diverse opportunity for some NewTek staff, so so far, so good.

Steve, have they given any indication what kind of timetable they have for moving Newtek (and more specifically, LW) IT/DevOps over to Vizrt's systems?

Those transitions nigh-always occur, and often turn into huge efforts "behind the scenes", particularly for long-lived legacy codebases like LW which haven't really had to deal with such migrations/integrations in their past. Until such migrations are completed, there's generally a (rational) reluctance to engage in any sort of major changes to products' codebases -- codebases need to be stable going into such migrations, in order to properly V&V any devops-migration-related problems and side-effects (esp. when the migration involves forced move to more modern toolchains or build system infrastructure). Attempting to do such a migration on a codebase simultaneously undergoing significant dev modifications is basically a recipe for disaster.

Just wondering because of potential impact on production of update releases for LW2019, as well as for scheduling of next version release.

SBowie
04-07-2019, 04:21 PM
Just wondering because of potential impact on production of update releases for LW2019, as well as for scheduling of next version release.I understand the curiosity, but it's very early in the marriage, and I don't think there is a living soul who can state what the children will look like yet with any confidence.

OnlineRender
04-07-2019, 05:05 PM
I understand the curiosity, but it's very early in the marriage, and I don't think there is a living soul who can state what the children will look like yet with any confidence.


you can take a pretty good guess when you fork out millions on IVF treatment ...

Since Forum / thumbnails / the basics don't excite people....


<1> CAD support, non existent
<2> Tumble speed improvements when dealing with geo above 400K
<3> Preset and Downloads Eco system * mentioned already *
<4> FBX and Albemic that actually works
<5> Sculpting tools * not metamorphic *
<6> Hair and Fur * not FFX *
<7> Volumetric and Fluid Solvers *better implemented*
<8> ability to search the node graph or use tab to drop a node
<9> Interactive boolean tools
<10> microdisplament
<11> Rigging tools , not Genoma
<12> weight paint "that works"
<13> Render time and engine improvements
<14> Bullet dynamics * that are not worth a button" => no jitter
<15> instancing with collusion detection
<16> flocking * ??? **
<17> motion graphic tools
<18> fracture tools that work
<19> Layer system improvements
<20> just getting started ...


industry leading / ground breaking ideas.... if you can't think of that, you are in the wrong job! > see (11) last post

erikals
04-07-2019, 05:24 PM
no Modeler improvements ?

> Blasphemy

https://i.imgur.com/GUaE92k.gif

robertoortiz
04-07-2019, 05:52 PM
you can take a pretty good guess when you fork out millions on IVF treatment ...

Since Forum / thumbnails / the basics don't excite people....


<1> CAD support, non existent
<2> Tumble speed improvements when dealing with geo above 400K
<3> Preset and Downloads Eco system * mentioned already *
<4> FBX and Albemic that actually works
<5> Sculpting tools * not metamorphic *
<6> Hair and Fur * not FFX *
<7> Volumetric and Fluid Solvers *better implemented*
<8> ability to search the node graph or use tab to drop a node
<9> Interactive boolean tools
<10> microdisplament
<11> Rigging tools , not Genoma
<12> weight paint "that works"
<13> Render time and engine improvements
<14> Bullet dynamics * that are not worth a button" => no jitter
<15> instancing with collusion detection
<16> flocking * ??? **
<17> motion graphic tools
<18> fracture tools that work
<19> Layer system improvements
<20> just getting started ...


industry leading / ground breaking ideas.... if you can't think of that, you are in the wrong job! > see (11) last post
<21> Non destructive Text Support in layout...And make it Nodal for a laugh.

Paul_Boland
04-07-2019, 07:02 PM
It's live now:
https://www.ustream.tv/channel/23652302

Nicolas Jordan
04-07-2019, 07:03 PM
Edited: Never mind Mr Boland posted the link a minute before me.

Paul_Boland
04-07-2019, 08:27 PM
An hour and a half in and nothing about Lightwave 3D...

3D Kiwi
04-07-2019, 08:36 PM
Have you been sitting there for an hour and half waiting for LW news???

Paul_Boland
04-07-2019, 08:38 PM
Watching the live stream and all it has up now is the "Together we change the world" screen. Is the live stream over? If so, not sure what to make of the fact that Newtek didn't talk of Lightwave. Is that good or bad? The Lightwave community is left in limbo wondering what's happening. Newtek and/or Vizrt need to speak up and let this part of the community know where Lightwave stands!

- - - Updated - - -


Have you been sitting there for an hour and half waiting for LW news???

Yes. Bahaha!! 3:39a.m. and got no news!

3D Kiwi
04-07-2019, 08:40 PM
Your wasting your time, they have been pretty clear in saying that it will be awhile before there is any lightwave news.

BigHache
04-07-2019, 08:43 PM
... not sure what to make of the fact that Newtek didn't talk of Lightwave. Is that good or bad?

I would say neither good or bad at this point.

We're still fairly fresh into a new LightWave release so there's time for anything to play out yet.

jwiede
04-07-2019, 09:00 PM
I would say neither good or bad at this point.

I think that depends entirely on whether most other Newtek products were discussed or not:

If most weren't discussed, then Lightwave not being discussed isn't "atypical", so not being mentioned wouldn't bode good or bad.

OTOH, if most other active Newtek products were discussed, and Lightwave wasn't discussed, then that clearly bodes poorly for Lightwave.

So...which was it?

SBowie
04-07-2019, 09:16 PM
So...which was it?NAB is a video show, for video people, interested in video products, and the video business generally. So ... which do you think it was, John? And why on earth would anyone expect anything different, especially after I spent the last week telling everyone here not to expect LW news in the near future.

It might have been different if this was SIGGRAPH, but it wasn't. And even if they had taken a few seconds out from discussing the many video news items the audience came to hear to just just mention LW, would that have really changed anything? Or would we just be subjected to a bunch of people calling it meaningless lip service, which in effect it really would have been?

I understand people are anxious for news, but beleive me when I say it's going to be a while coming.

Asticles
04-08-2019, 01:18 AM
NAB is a video show, for video people, interested in video products, and the video business generally. So ... which do you think it was, John? And why on earth would anyone expect anything different, especially after I spent the last week telling everyone here not to expect LW news in the near future.


Why? Because this is a matter of trust, of trusting that your investment of time and money is not going to go to waste because of a business decision.

In the end, the client is an investor, if you do not give confidence to the investor, he will leave.

I feel you're fustrated also, but LW was coming out of the hole, giving hope and confidence to users, and suddenly this.

Regards

TheLexx
04-08-2019, 01:36 AM
Despite eagerness for LW news I do not recall any 3D software ever being discussed at NAB, which tends to be hardware video based with cameras usually stealing the show (at least where I browse. :)). Software coverage tends to be more like Resolve, etc.

50one
04-08-2019, 01:47 AM
Well with all respect I wasn't expecting much after three attempts to rewrite/readjust things, dunno why people are always put so much faith into something while clearly the writings are on the wall. ...and no, I'm not pessimist even tho been talking how bad things are, just looking at thongs as they are, not "how can we be amazing in 10 years time" it's here and now that's responsible whether I've got food on the table.