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View Full Version : The Text node in Layout... What features should it have



robertoortiz
03-06-2019, 11:39 AM
Lets image that :lightwave gets a text node for layout.
How do you think it would like?
What features should is have?

I am looking forward to your ideas.
-R

Sensei
03-06-2019, 11:56 AM
Are you talking about node which is just rendering 2D text on object's surface? Or node which is generating 3D mesh like TrueType Text (http://truetypetext.trueart.eu) plugin?

Definitely it should have support for multi-line text.
It should allow loading/saving/referencing text from external file location dynamically (i.e. you update text file on disk and Layout reloads it automatically).
Support for multiple attributes in the same text sequence.
(e.g. Android has limited support for HTML tags and styles inside of TextView control (used for everything in Android common apps) e.g. "<font color='red'>Red</font> <b>Bold</b> <i>Italic</it>" )

In Node input have inputs for e.g. scrolling text ("Start Index", "Start Row"). Allow changing colors of letter on character index and row index basis.

UnCommonGrafx
03-06-2019, 02:46 PM
It should have all the functions of word/ai for font treatment with an E next to it.
Outline and filled should be options.
Bevelling should be like the ONE program that let you draw profiles for bevelling. Better said,
it should have an infallible beveller that only does it right.
Individual letters, words, sentences, should be able to be tagged as parts so that they can quickly
do mograph-like stuff.
Creation of text on the fly, through a node? All bevelled, labelled and shaded. yeah...

gar26lw
03-07-2019, 01:13 AM
which 3d app has the best text atm, in peoples ho?

robertoortiz
03-07-2019, 04:35 AM
which 3d app has the best text atm, in peoples ho?

I would look more in terms what is THE APP 2d/ or 3D that graphics designers use for text layout?
That would be Illustrator.
lets see the controls JUST for the text, the appearance of the text is another story.

https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/using/formatting-type.html

ianr
03-07-2019, 05:58 AM
which 3d app has the best text atm, in peoples ho?


For free try Fusion 9:jam:

Rayek
03-07-2019, 11:03 AM
which 3d app has the best text atm, in peoples ho?

All major 3d apps have good to great non-destructive text tools now. Cinema4D traditionally had an excellent 3d text tool. Maya's got an update not so long ago finally upgrading its text tools to this decade. Max has a very nice text tool too. Blender has had non-destructive solid text tools for a long time now as well. Modo introduced improved text tools a while ago. Houdini's are good too.

It's in the details and GUI that things may differ. Max has very nice individual letter control, as does Cinema4d. Manual kerning is solved in different ways. As far as I am aware, all 3d apps rely on a text input box to generate and edit text, except for Blender, which allows for in-the-view editing, similar to 2d tools, and an option to load/create a text file.

Bevel mitering is available in all in all of them as well, although the implementation and ease-of-use differs. For example, C4D and Maya have a curve profile editor inside the text tool, making it very simple to create the mitering. And C4D again has had great text bevels for a very long time now. Blender is the odd duckling, relying on a custom curve that is placed in the viewport, with no presets. Although more awkward, that curve does allow for all the mitering freedom you'd ever want, but it takes more time to set up. And that curve can be animated, of course. Not sure whether the mitering could be animated in other apps that way - never tried.

Manual kerning, individual character controls, and how these are used differs from app to app as well. Like I said, C4D and Max do very well here. Easy, quick, efficient. Modo still is a bit behind here, last I checked. I am not even sure Modo does manual kerning at this point - perhaps someone can chime in. Blender doesn't allow for much character variation or control inside the same text block. Compared to Max, Maya, C4D this is very limited. On the other hand, Blender is the only with the option for linked text boxes.

Each app has its own unique text features, I found over the years. I found C4D's typography tools always to be excellent, both in features, as well as usability. Maya and Max work really well too. Blender's text tools work great too, with some work-around caveats, and have some unique options. Modo is good, but needs more work. I haven't worked with Houdini's too much - tried them a few years back, and they seemed to work well enough.

Interestingly enough Modo, untill a year ago, had an IDENTICAL text tool as the one in Lightwave Modeler. It looked the same and behaved the same (I suppose the same developer worked on them). The new one is procedural/non-destructive. Not as good as other apps yet, but a huge improvement over the old text tools.

I checked out Fusion 9 today, and those text tools are pretty great too. I didn't seem to be able to change individual kerning pairs in the 3d text+ tool, though.

Lightwave... doesn't do any of the above. It is still the same old primitive non-destructive tool. It is in desperate need of an update - ideally a layout-based non-destructive tool. I recall mentioning this years and years ago as well.

The current text tools in LW are very 90s last century. They do have a great retro feeling to them, though ;-P

Rayek
03-07-2019, 11:09 AM
It should have all the functions of word/ai for font treatment with an E next to it.
Outline and filled should be options.
Bevelling should be like the ONE program that let you draw profiles for bevelling. Better said,
it should have an infallible beveller that only does it right.
Individual letters, words, sentences, should be able to be tagged as parts so that they can quickly
do mograph-like stuff.
Creation of text on the fly, through a node? All bevelled, labelled and shaded. yeah...

I've never seen infallible text beveling in any 3d app. It very much depends on the font that is used, and some fonts just do not translate well to "bevel-able" 3d objects at all. Some characters may cause issues, again depending on the type face and underlying vectors.

hypersuperduper
03-07-2019, 11:29 AM
The most important thing is that it is well integrated with everything else. I should be able to use live text with all of layout’s transformation and displacement tools as well as to drive volumetrics.

Sensei
03-07-2019, 11:41 AM
I've never seen infallible text beveling in any 3d app.

That requires using boolean mesh operations on generated character rather than bevel operation..

robertoortiz
03-07-2019, 12:22 PM
The most important thing is that it is well integrated with everything else. I should be able to use live text with all of layout’s transformation and displacement tools as well as to drive volumetrics.
Amen, That also means that this text control should be tied on OTHER tools. Specially FUTURE tools that Lightwave natively needs and currently lacks. for example Lattice deformers and Spline based controls/ deformations. Two powerful features that honestly DESERVE their own thread.

Oh BTW all the tools attributes should be able to be changed at will OVER TIME.

_R

EDIT...My advice for the developers...
reverse engineer work from top graphic designers and imagine how it could be animated.
Look at the work of people like Paula Scher

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=320D336F91AF274C82EF778D522DDF5510A772A2&thid=OIP.0b7ALFI4jYo7is-jllp3NQHaDb&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthebig.co%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FPaula-Scher-Posters.jpg&exph=556&expw=1200&q=paula+scher+porfolio&selectedindex=7&ajaxhist=0&vt=0

or
Saul Bass

https://www.google.com/search?q=saul+bass&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEh6nh4_DgAhUjhuAKHaLKDQwQ_AUIDigB&biw=945&bih=662