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injacphi
02-17-2019, 08:07 AM
Hello guys,

I'm trying to find the best computer I can buy for around 4000$. Do you have suggestion? Maybe I should go with a refurbished computer to have dual processor and maybe 2 graphic card?

For now I have a Dell Precision T3500, Intel Xeon W3670 3.2GHz Six Core Processor, 20GB Memory, graphic card Firepro W7900 2GB.

The render are very long I want to update to something fast...

TheLexx
02-17-2019, 08:37 AM
For that budget be wary of used unless it is a solid trustworthy source.

Kryslin
02-17-2019, 09:43 AM
I will assume you are using Lightwave as your 3D package and are using the software renderer, and that you are not adverse to building your own machine.

You want to maximize both cores and speed. That being said, I would recommend the Threadripper 2950X, with 64GB ram. The 2950X can be boosted up to 4.4Ghz, with a normal clock speed of 3.5Ghz. Graphics cards with Lightwave are more of a personal choice, but seeing as the only GPU rendering solution for Lightwave is nVidia based, You have a wide range of cards - With the 2080Ti at the top of the spectrum (The Titan RTX at $2200 from Newegg, $1000 range for 1080ti) down into the mid $300 (RTX 2060), with the 2070 cards in the middle. You will need some kind of heavy duty cooling; Some here with threadrippers use a Noctua cooler designed for the Threadripper. I've personally had good luck with a sealed water block cooling system on my builds. Storage is cheap. Another suggestion is an SSD for a boot drive, plus a RAID array for data storage. DDR4 Ram tends to be expensive, you might be able to get compatible ECC ram a bit cheaper (I haven't checked). And then, there is the case and power supply. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need a 1000W PSU. For the machine abovee, even with a pair of RTX2070 cards, an 800W PSU is good enough.

Of course, if you're looking to simply purchase a machine, I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help. I've built my own machines for the last 20 years, and the last three were purpose built.

hrgiger
02-17-2019, 09:48 AM
I'd say go with a 1950x 16 core and get a few nice graphic cards (like a couple 2080's) and go with Octane if you want something that will render fast. A couple of 2080's ($699 each) will destroy even the highest end thread ripper.

Imageshoppe
02-17-2019, 01:45 PM
I'd say go with a 1950x 16 core and get a few nice graphic cards (like a couple 2080's) and go with Octane if you want something that will render fast. A couple of 2080's ($699 each) will destroy even the highest end thread ripper.

This is a very wise suggestion, and exactly the path I've started down. After much internal back and forth, and debate and suggestions on this forum, I decided to forgo either the top end Intel or top end Threadripper and I built a system based on last years 1950X with the goal of workload expansion via GPU cards. I really resisted the GPU route, but what the heck, might as well join the movement.

You can (and I do) overclock the 1950 nicely on even cheap air cooling a bit, but there's a break even point you'll reach about 3.9Ghz to 4.0Ghz no matter the cooling solution across all cores where the small incremental speed gains are not worth the extra wattage consumed when you're rendering 24/7. The 1950X is now a great value of a chip, and the machine was the easiest build I've ever had in decades of building boxes. Zero issues. I'd suggest a m.2 system drive. They are very cheap now and fast. If you're new to Threadrippers, here's a video guide (from a video guy, not an experienced PC builder, FYI) that will show you the building sequence...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PphEQqI1Nck

Regards,

Kryslin
02-17-2019, 01:59 PM
I was trying to cover both bases - room for a set of GPUs, and enough horsepower to use the native renderer effectively...And stay under budget.

ianr
02-19-2019, 09:05 AM
Where are U based , so to advise sourcing parts?
U.S. ,S.A. , Europe, Asia ? but Krsylin has pretty much
nailed it.

At this juncture Amflamtec pci-e ext cards are the boys
for increasing or adding to your GPU card collection see
this relevant thread also.

Amflamtec pci-e ext cards are in Canada.

Water Cool as much as we can!

injacphi
02-19-2019, 10:06 AM
I'm from Canada, I look at some website and if I go with some suggestion the price will be more like 5000$

Kryslin
02-19-2019, 10:18 AM
The places to start saving money are the processor (go for the 1950 Threadripper, $150-$200 less), 32 Gb ram, and rtx2060 video cards. Your case doesn't have to be a top end one, there are several good cases @ $75 or less. You can probsbly get by with a 256 Gb normal SSD, instead of the 512 or 1Tb version. Likewise, go for a pair of 2Tb HDD for your storage needs.

If that's still too much, then start lowering you core count on the CPU.

lightman
02-20-2019, 06:55 AM
So here is a quick list for a basic 1950x threadripper under your budget just add more drives for the amount of storage you want.
Lot of people don't like the enermax liqtech tr4. I have an original one not ver 2 and had no problems with it for 8 months before I retired it and went to a full custom water cooling loop to accommodate my 3 1080ti's.
You can go more basic on the case and save even more money maybe go to 64 gigs of ram.
144198

ianr
02-20-2019, 07:53 AM
So here is a quick list for a basic 1950x threadripper under your budget just add more drives for the amount of storage you want.
Lot of people don't like the enermax liqtech tr4. I have an original one not ver 2 and had no problems with it for 8 months before I retired it and went to a full custom water cooling loop to accommodate my 3 1080ti's.
You can go more basic on the case and save even more money maybe go to 64 gigs of ram.
144198

Nice lightman, Small adddition maybe watercool the GPU ?

lightman
02-20-2019, 09:14 AM
The only problem with the water cooling the gpu is the cost. In my experience all in one watercooling is not capable of the demands the gpu will put on it with the cpu. You pretty much have to go to a custom loop to get adequate cooling for both the cpu and gpu.
When I was using my liqtech tr4 I was running 2 1080ti's on air and had no problems. I picked up a 3rd 1080ti on sale and that is when I decided to build a custom loop. It adds a lot of cost and only the individual can determine if it is worth the investment.
In my case yes it was worth the cost to me a custom loop is superior to an aio in it's cooling performance and capacity.

Imageshoppe
02-20-2019, 10:27 AM
So here is a quick list for a basic 1950x threadripper under your budget just add more drives for the amount of storage you want.
Lot of people don't like the enermax liqtech tr4. I have an original one not ver 2 and had no problems with it for 8 months before I retired it and went to a full custom water cooling loop to accommodate my 3 1080ti's.
You can go more basic on the case and save even more money maybe go to 64 gigs of ram.
144198

My experience with the Liqtech TR4 was abysmal. First, it came with the wrong tie-down hardware screws that didn't fit the motherboard. Really???? it's only designed for Threadripper, how is that possible? So, while waiting for the slow back and forth and getting the correct bolts I got a Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 overnight so I could finish the built. I was surprised to discover that the Noctua did really, really well. I wrote down all my various thermals and power draws with overclocking up to 4.1Ghz and then compared them to the Liqtech TR4 a week later when I was able to install it. The Liqtech was only marginally better, and only at the ragged edge where I tried to run the chip at 4.05Ghz 24/7. Thing is, the extra power draw in watts at the ragged edge wasn't worth it, and I backed off to 3.9Ghz where the Noctua did really fine. So I sent the Liqtech back and the system is happy and cool under air now.

Some other random thoughts (just my opinions, worth absolutely nothing :)) ... Go m.2 for your system drive... In US from Amazon a 1T Samsung m.2 will cost $170.00US. Every system I've built with a small system drive I've always regretted it for some reason or another. If you intend to eventually fill that case with graphics cards, then get the 1000watt power supply. They aren't too expensive and it will give you piece of mind, IMO. My motherboard was a GIGABYTE X399 AORUS PRO, my first Gigabyte ever, and it's been real good, some issues with earlier BIOS not supporting a wide range of ram are gone. 64 gigs of ram is the minimum I would advise in today's world.... Here's my ram; G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM currently 170 US per kit from Microcenter.

Again, just a different set of experiences to compare with... everything is possible, all suggestions are good and everyone's starting point is different.

lightman
02-20-2019, 02:15 PM
Interesting my liqtech tr4 had no issues everything worked perfect even the fans which I read were not good quality, mine ran fine. Looks like maybe their consistency is not very good on manufacturing and I got lucky? But as I said mine is back in the box for now and will just be used again if I turn the 1950x into a render node only. I use Octane but I really still prefer cpu rendering as I find it easier to get along with.
Not sure if that asus board takes m.2 as it's their budget board other wise on the higher end boards yes go m.2 for boot.

Imageshoppe
02-20-2019, 02:40 PM
I really got bad vibes off the TR4 in the short time I had it. First water cooler I've had that made me uneasy and concerned it might just fail.

As to m.2 support, I'm not sure which Asus mobo you're referring to, but just about everything new now has m.2 from what I've observed. Even the super cheap $75US Asus Prime B350 has it, which I built as a render node a while back...

I will be new to Octane, and not really happy about being pushed in that direction. But it is what it is, I guess.

ianr
02-21-2019, 05:34 AM
The only problem with the water cooling the gpu is the cost. In my experience all in one watercooling is not capable of the demands the gpu will put on it with the cpu. You pretty much have to go to a custom loop to get adequate cooling for both the cpu and gpu.
When I was using my liqtech tr4 I was running 2 1080ti's on air and had no problems. I picked up a 3rd 1080ti on sale and that is when I decided to build a custom loop. It adds a lot of cost and only the individual can determine if it is worth the investment.
In my case yes it was worth the cost to me a custom loop is superior to an aio in it's cooling performance and capacity.


I agreed Custom Water loop for GPU there's a German Company that Rene uses it costs 100euro per card ...aquacomputer.de

injacphi
02-23-2019, 10:08 AM
Thanks all for your good comments. what do you think about putting dual cpu e5-2698v3 instead of threadripper? Is it a better solution?

Kryslin
02-23-2019, 12:17 PM
A new 1950x or 2950x is half the price of a single new E5-2698v3 (which Newegg.com lists @ 1674 USD, or 2192.94 CDN). Two of them new would kill your budget. You might be able to find some used, but6 you're still looking at a expensive motherboard, server RAM, limited I/O options (But all the SATA connectors you could ever want, limited choices in cases...

injacphi
02-23-2019, 04:11 PM
Kryslin, yes i found 2 of them at around 600$can each so I need to think about it...

Kryslin
02-24-2019, 06:30 AM
I would use pcpartpicker.com to choose the parts for your build; It will warn you about incompatibility issues.

lightman
02-26-2019, 09:10 AM
Server motherboards and ram are expensive. Years ago I used to go that route. Wont do it anymore as I don't see any benefits unless your getting a steal of a deal