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View Full Version : Cloth Simulation and IK Request for LW8



silviotoledo
01-03-2004, 06:12 AM
Please, include a similar video tutorial on LW8

These are my tests done with LW7.5 and MD. Codec is Mpg4

http://www.stoledo.com.br/mdtests/mdtests-silviotoledo2004.jpg

MD TEST 001 (http://www.stoledo.com.br/mdtests/cloth_01.mpg.avi)
MD TEST 002 (http://www.stoledo.com.br/mdtests/TestIIwithoutselfcolision.avi)
MD TEST 003 (http://www.stoledo.com.br/mdtests/md-ball-good.avi)
MD TEST 004 (http://www.stoledo.com.br/mdtests/md-ball-problem.avi)


IK
The IK creates a tension, like a nervous movement.
It's very hard to make up this. A long time adjusting several additive key frames.
So, I think Newtek must review the IK process.An easier way
to animate a character walk is the FOOTSTEPS marks done in " Character Studio".
we just put the footspets where we want and the foot will be fixed to it.
Where is the IK FK blending?Is it on LW8?

GHOSTING/ONION SKIN
It's a tool that would help a lot.
All the artists coming from Traditional Animation would love it!
Just permission to see at the same image, 6 to 10 past frames as a ghost.
It's a simulation that traditional animators do at the light box.

So, here are the MD PROBLEMS:

1st Video - Body in a dress
Too Much Flicking
Too Much reaction force
Bug. MD fixed the cloth points on the object
I think Bones deforming geometry is not good for MD

2nd video - Ball on a dress
Too Much Reaction force
I tried self colission ON to prevent that self colision but it took 1 day to calculate part of the first frame simulation.No way!

3rd video - Ball under the cloth
This is one of the best result with MD I got
The problem is the too much flicking on the area where the ball is not deforming anymore

4th video- Ball goes through the cloth
This is a crazy thing! sometimes, when the movement is quick the elements pass through the other.
There's big subdivision on the mesh.

ALSO SEE MY OTHER POST:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15847

Dodgy
01-03-2004, 07:15 AM
I think maybe you need to read a few threads here, the IK and dynamics system have been rejigged for eight, these are the main features of it in fact.

WCameron
01-03-2004, 08:08 AM
this reminds me, didnt somebody at one point have an OnionSkinning plugin they were working on for Lightwave?
what ever happened with that?

- Will.

silviotoledo
01-03-2004, 10:50 AM
Hey, sorry for the shadow, probably I used the cache shadow option turned on!

I see the Newtek team says the new dynamics are totally new, but what I've seen on the videos is just the integration between the old dynamics and the new interface with a little additions, but not new technology or artificial inteligence.

So, I hope the Newtek development team consider complex cloth simulation on LW8. I will send new MD tests to show the MD problems at 7.5.

Silvio Toledo

Mylenium
01-03-2004, 11:55 AM
So then, what "new technology" would you expect? I think the developer team has done a fine job in integrating all that dynamics stuff and I think it will hold its own when compared to other progs. It's not just integrating MD and FXBreak - they have taken things quite a bit further than that.

Cloth in particular can not be considered an easy or trivial thing to simulate in CG but I think they way they've done it is quite usable and fast. If you don't expect 1-click instant perfection you surely will come to like it (judging from the vids). It's either that or you may want to take a look at other progs an comfort yourself in the fact that they are no better off:

Maya - "patented cloth simulation" *hoho* - it's so f*ckin slow that no one uses it (except for Hollywood studios with their big ONYX machines) and switches to SyFlex

MAX - well, Reactor isn't bad, but it's so much aimed at real-time it sometimes does things a bit sloppy and unprecise

XSI - no, not there. You have to buy SyFlex.

So there you are. I think with what little time they had, LW 8is not bad. So far I haven't seen any improvements that would be useful for me (Modeler, Rendering, Texturing) and like some others I'm somewhat disappointed but I'm willing to wait until it comes out and maybe I'll even be patient enough to wait for things to be fixed in 8.5....

Mylenium

silviotoledo
01-04-2004, 09:38 AM
Mylenium

Yeah! The integration is good, but we need more.
Cloth is really hard to do and LW MD does it fast, it's true but
When I speak about New Technology, I am waiting additive controls to solve problems that frequently occur and new science inside.

For example, hypervoxels was a big advance, but it's stopped.
There's not a fluid dynamics that goes good with hypervoxels.
The volumes does not mix when particles approaches.

MD was an advance too, but the dynamics are the same since the first version as a plugin. They need to make it better in the algorithms too.

There's a big amount of bugs between LW 6 and 7.5 in basic functions and other softwares doesn't.

Finally, I think the advances in LW8 are great, but Newtek is going too slow, some few steps behind other companies.


Hey, Development Team! come on! back to be the best!

Panikos
01-04-2004, 01:45 PM
I find MotionDesigner powerful. Though the learning curve is hard due to complex documentation. Tweaking so many parameters is chaotic. I spent long time with MotionDesigner and happily I reached a point that it fills my needs.
I used it for hair-guides motion, cloths etc

There is a useful thread in the old Newtek forums, sorry dont remember the URL :(

btw, you have that red cloth crossing the 4 vertical legs, because the dense of your cloth isnt subdivided enouch, so MD cant detect the collision.