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Birck Cox
01-17-2019, 07:27 AM
Hi, folks. I, a beginner, am trying to follow a toot about lathing a bowl from a spline Draw profile. A standard teaching problem for learning Lathing. But is there any way to draw a straight line for the bottom of the bowl? I tried Spline Draw, Bezier, and Sketch-lots of ways to draw curves a-plenty; none for drawing a straight horizontal line. How can I do that?

UnCommonGrafx
01-17-2019, 09:10 AM
Two points close together before the curve ought to suffice on spline.

Sensei
01-17-2019, 10:04 AM
I disrecommend using spline for profile for Lathe tool, as there is no control to how many segments curve will be quantized (just Curve Divisions: Coarse, Medium and Fine).
If you would get EasySpline http://easyspline.trueart.eu
It has tool Spline Density, which takes number of segments as parameter, to which spline will be quantized.
After quantization (freezing) of spline to 2 point polygon chain, you would use profile for Lathe.

EasySpline has also spline-compliant version of Lathe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAeIoL-fR9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAeIoL-fR9k

It does not quantize/freeze spline, but multiplies spline and generates entire spline-cage.

prometheus
01-17-2019, 10:15 AM
Drop the spline tool after creation, select the point from where you wish to start the straight line, hit "e" for extender, then followed by "t" for translate, then hold
ctrl in while moving the mouse in the direction you want the straight line.

Also, You can download the free pictrix bezier curve, which allows for combined straight curves as well as rounded splines in one go without having to use extender method above.

You can also use the line pen tool and middle mouse click draw to draw a straight line, set snapping to vertex only and start draw from where you want the straight line to start.

Px bezier also allows for similar control of curve segments as the commercial tool from Sensei, but px bezier is free, it has a lot of snapping modes, belt mode, extend mode, and you can save out curve profiles.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160322183709/http://www.pictrix.jp/?s=Px_Bezier&submit=Search

https://youtu.be/IVK5q2jVUwc

UnCommonGrafx
01-17-2019, 10:27 AM
Sensei's EasySpline tool is highly recommended.
As is LWCAD.

But as a beginner, better you learn some of the basics and a few pitfalls before investing more money. The free stuff is quite powerful, too.

raymondtrace
01-17-2019, 12:33 PM
You may also consider vector drawing tools outside of LW2015. If you're more comfortable using a vector drawing program like Adobe Illustrator or Affinity Designer, you can create art there an import to Modeler.

Ma3rk
01-17-2019, 02:27 PM
You may also consider vector drawing tools outside of LW2015. If you're more comfortable using a vector drawing program like Adobe Illustrator or Affinity Designer, you can create art there an import to Modeler.

That's what I was about to chime in with when internet went out.

If your dabbling with 3D, you're probably going to get attracted to After Effects or similar. Vector based files open up whole new worlds, so it's pretty much a basic tool.

prometheus
01-18-2019, 04:21 AM
That's what I was about to chime in with when internet went out.

If your dabbling with 3D, you're probably going to get attracted to After Effects or similar. Vector based files open up whole new worlds, so it's pretty much a basic tool.

Not everyone can afford illustrator, free alternatives are good to have....Unfortunately Lightwave doesnīt support the SVG format, they should really work on implementing the svg format (splotchdog has one, but not anywhere near good enough), which I think is superior to eps, and Inkscape is great to do vector graphics in, blender has support for that and allows for
full 3d curves within the imported files, and the svg format comes in with proper drills, proper color and it is also adjustable with the handles, unlike imported eps files.

You can go the route of exporting svg files to blender, convert to mesh to get a poly to lightwave.

Otherwise, pictriz bezier is great, you can combine the drawn spline as divided straight, or just straight segments, custom segments, hard angle controls or smooth controls, and save out curve profiles and load back in, so you can have a library of profile curves to load and lathe around as needed.

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 07:09 AM
Nobody should afford Illustrator. :) That's why there are so many free and <\$50 apps like Affinity Designer.

Free alternatives are not limited to SVG output. Inkscape (free) can export EPS and PS which LW Modeler imports. However, Blender's import capabilities with SVG are quite good and worth the middle step.

Ztreem
01-18-2019, 07:54 AM
Oliver Hotz released a free python script for importing pdf's of newer versions than ver.8 which also support svg. It was in a thread on this forum but I don't remember where.
143895

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 08:19 AM
It can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/files/

Seek "OD_ImportVectorFile.pyc"

prometheus
01-18-2019, 08:56 AM
Nobody should afford Illustrator. :) That's why there are so many free and <\$50 apps like Affinity Designer.

Free alternatives are not limited to SVG output. Inkscape (free) can export EPS and PS which LW Modeler imports. However, Blender's import capabilities with SVG are quite good and worth the middle step.

No..I donīt think the eps export is working properly from inkscape, tried it many times, there is eps options, but Lightwave doesnīt recognize any geometry being exported.
As I am aware of after testing, neither eps or ps is working.

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 09:09 AM
No..I donīt think the eps export is working properly from inkscape, tried it many times, there is eps options, but Lightwave doesnīt recognize any geometry being exported...

I believe you're still on 2015. It's working fine here on 2018's native EPS loader. It fails for me on 2015's native EPS loader. Oliver's free script above will load it in 2015 (and 2018).

prometheus
01-18-2019, 09:10 AM
Tried olivers python script,
Why isnīt it in the Lightwave plugin database?..instead required facebook login, I had to create an account unfortunately.

pdf I didnīt get working from inkscape, svg works sort of, brings in quadrangled polys, when unchecked it crashes, it brings in the color set in inkscape as well.
added to path object segments and that it can not recognize, not even after combined paths in inkscape.

Still testing.

prometheus
01-18-2019, 09:16 AM
I believe you're still on 2015. It's working fine here on 2018's native EPS loader. It fails for me on 2015's native EPS loader. Oliver's free script above will load it in 2015 (and 2018).

The eps importer is 2.1 in 2015 and itīs the same version in 2018.
I tried it in 2018 and it is still not working
Are you sure it isnīt a question about the inkscape version, or some settings in there?

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 09:28 AM
There are certainly variables within the file that can cause issues.

For example, the following EPS file loads in 2018 with the native EPS importer but Oliver's script kicks an error.

http://static.lightwave3d.com/downloads/press_resources/logos/lightwave_2019_logos/LightWave_3D_2019_Logo_Black_EPS.eps

It is important to watch out for complexities within the EPS file. For example, in Illustrator, you will want to "expand appearance" and save to an older EPS format (<=8). In Inkscape, you may convert objects to paths in the Paths menu.

I'm using the LW versions in my signature and Inkscape 0.92.3 (2405546, 2018-03-11) on Windows.

prometheus
01-18-2019, 09:30 AM
I can not get drilled boolean parts from inkscape to work eitherwhen exported as svg in to the OD python script either,
In blender it works.
And no multi segmented parts either.

- - - Updated - - -

There are certainly variables within the file that can cause issues.

For example, the following EPS file loads in 2018 with the native EPS importer but Oliver's script kicks an error.

http://static.lightwave3d.com/downloads/press_resources/logos/lightwave_2019_logos/LightWave_3D_2019_Logo_Black_EPS.eps

It is important to watch out for complexities within the EPS file. For example, in Illustrator, you will want to "expand appearance" and save to an older EPS format (<=8). In Inkscape, you may convert objects to paths in the Paths menu.

I'm using the LW versions in my signature and Inkscape 0.92.3 (2405546, 2018-03-11) on Windows.

For eps 2.1 import.
I usually do object to paths, and have tried that, still not working to import as eps.
Itīs just simple basic shapes, nothing complex.

Letīs start tracking versions, what inkscape version do you use?
O sorry ..missed your info there.

My inskcape...Inkscape 0.92.1 r15371 it could be the issue.
No use to further stall on it since you say you got it working, I will install a newer one later this weekend.

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 09:35 AM
...Why isnīt it in the Lightwave plugin database?...

That's an excellent question. LW does not market itself, nor the work of 3rd party devs. I may need to create a video tutorial of how to render a LW 2018 light under a bushel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_under_a_bushel).

prometheus
01-18-2019, 10:06 AM
That's an excellent question. LW does not market itself, nor the work of 3rd party devs. I may need to create a video tutorial of how to render a LW 2018 light under a bushel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_under_a_bushel).

Itīs a facebook curse, and someone beleiving that that is the sh...and the place to be on and everyone is there, when in fact it is not..and probably more and more is jumping off facebook, but I am guessing a bit.

Itīs just odd when most experienced lightwave scripters must be aware of the plugin database, but instead makes it available only facebook?

Maybe itīs a way of marketing his other tools, or he may be just lazy to not put it up there in the base..I dunno, I can not curse Oliver for it though really, itīs his choice and he is providing a nice tool for free, so I am thankful for that..but odd to place it only there.

Update..installed inkscape 0.92.4 tried eps exports, and import to lightwave 2018, still nothing, even did object to path but no luck.
Which brings me to wonder if it is something that requires a later 2018 version, mine is still 2018.01 but I rather not install a new one since I am on discovery, I will try again as soon as they release a new feature version.

raymondtrace
01-18-2019, 11:33 AM
The changelog for all 2018 patches do not show anything for EPS import but it is possible something improved along the way.

Birck Cox
01-18-2019, 04:22 PM
Hey, guys, Thanks for the abundance of ways of drawing a straight line. The variety and the additional suggestions about plugins force me to conclude that, in fact, there is no way to draw a straight line built in to Lightwave. Frankly, that's creepy. All those drawing tools, five in number, and not one of them can actually draw a straight line? Give me a break! I finally gave up and used Illustrator. Yes, it's not cheap, but I've been using it for about 30 years (remember Illustrator 88?) and I may not push the proverbial envelope, but I'm comfy with it. I checked on Pictrix Bezier, and it's DOA. Trueart Easy Spline costs, so if straight lines are a non-starter in LW, I guess I'll use Illustrator. I don't know why Dan Ablan specified using Spline Draw to draw the profile, because, well, there's a whole lot I don't know yet, so I won't criticize anybody or anything beyond asking "Why is it so difficult to draw a fershlugginer straight line?"

Ztreem
01-18-2019, 04:47 PM
Its not hard to do a straight line, it’s just hard with the spline tools. Use the pentool instead. No need to use splines at all. Learn about sub division modeling and do a profile with only straight lines and sub dividing it later will make it smooth.

prometheus
01-19-2019, 09:06 AM
Its not hard to do a straight line, it’s just hard with the spline tools. Use the pentool instead. No need to use splines at all. Learn about sub division modeling and do a profile with only straight lines and sub dividing it later will make it smooth.

Do you mean the pen tool, or the line pen tool?

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, guys, Thanks for the abundance of ways of drawing a straight line. The variety and the additional suggestions about plugins force me to conclude that, in fact, there is no way to draw a straight line built in to Lightwave. Frankly, that's creepy. All those drawing tools, five in number, and not one of them can actually draw a straight line? Give me a break! I finally gave up and used Illustrator. Yes, it's not cheap, but I've been using it for about 30 years (remember Illustrator 88?) and I may not push the proverbial envelope, but I'm comfy with it. I checked on Pictrix Bezier, and it's DOA. Trueart Easy Spline costs, so if straight lines are a non-starter in LW, I guess I'll use Illustrator. I don't know why Dan Ablan specified using Spline Draw to draw the profile, because, well, there's a whole lot I don't know yet, so I won't criticize anybody or anything beyond asking "Why is it so difficult to draw a fershlugginer straight line?"

As I mentioned previously, there is a way to draw a straight line, it is the line pen tool.

I gave you the link to pictrix bezier curve, it should work it isnīt DOA, it is the best choice to combine straight and smooth curves today in Lightwave.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160127004819/http://www.pictrix.jp/lw/Px_Bezier/Px_Bezier64-121214.zip

prometheus
01-19-2019, 09:33 AM
There are certainly variables within the file that can cause issues.

For example, the following EPS file loads in 2018 with the native EPS importer but Oliver's script kicks an error.

http://static.lightwave3d.com/downloads/press_resources/logos/lightwave_2019_logos/LightWave_3D_2019_Logo_Black_EPS.eps

It is important to watch out for complexities within the EPS file. For example, in Illustrator, you will want to "expand appearance" and save to an older EPS format (<=8). In Inkscape, you may convert objects to paths in the Paths menu.

I'm using the LW versions in my signature and Inkscape 0.92.3 (2405546, 2018-03-11) on Windows.

I forgot to test your file, and that works in 2015 even..but that wasnīt inkscape was it? I have never had any problems with illustrator eps when I worked with it at my previous work.
if that was inkscape, can you share that as an inkscape svg? for me to check out and export to eps.?

jwiede
01-19-2019, 02:27 PM
I gave you the link to pictrix bezier curve, it should work it isnīt DOA, it is the best choice to combine straight and smooth curves today in Lightwave.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160127004819/http://www.pictrix.jp/lw/Px_Bezier/Px_Bezier64-121214.zip

That link for Px_Bezier64 works fine.

prometheus
01-19-2019, 05:33 PM
As for those using the od_importVector file, and using inkscape...
Letīs say you take a symbol from the inkscape symbol library, you need to go to edit and unlink_clone as the symbol is just that.
then you want to go to path..object to path, but that isnīt enough in this case with a symbol...go to extensions, modify path and flatten bezier and the lower value you have, more finer is the bezier points.

In the Od import options, uncheck filled paths only.
One good thing about this importer, it has make quads directly..that is something not even blender has, however..on some round areas the quad auto process isnīt symmetrical or quite as good, so One may want to manually correct that.

One really bad thing though..a bummer, it can not make auto drills, so any hollow part within a shape doesnīt seem to work...and that is a majour issue.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143906&d=1547944405

143906

Birck Cox
01-22-2019, 02:52 PM
Hi, guys. Thanks for all the suggestions. However, considering that I am still a beginner, I would rather take LW on its own terms rather than import tools to accomplish the beginner-oriented tutorials. I SHOULD be able to get the job done within Lightwave, no? Even granted that the tool specified in the tutorial, to wit: Spline Draw, is definitely not the best tool for the job, I'd like to find something in the available toolset to get it done, and get it done now, rather than setting it aside until I've learned sub-division modeling at some point in the future. Clearly, after 30 years of using Adobe Illustrator, that would be my first choice to avoid the shortcomings of Spline Draw, but that isn't the point. I'm here to learn to use Lightwave, warts and all.

Ztreem
01-22-2019, 03:59 PM
Here's some quick examples of doing a bowl with spline draw and one with the pen tool and then sub-patch it (subdivision modeling).

first I do the overall shape with the spline draw tool (you can use bezier or whatever) then I stop where I want the straight line and drop the tool. Select the point where you want the straight line to begin and press e (extender plus) and then move the point to where you want it. I used the set value tool (v) as I wanted the point at zero in the x-axis. Now use the lathe tool and do the bowl. I hope this helps.

Spline draw
143923

Pen tool
143924

Birck Cox
01-23-2019, 04:42 AM
Ztreem, thank you very much for the demos. They do a good job of imparting the information I've been after. I did manage to work out the Pen tool method myself, but I had some problems with it that your demo cleared up. Your demo of the Spline Draw method shows me what I was missing in the Dan Ablan instructions. These are a big help.

Birck Cox
01-23-2019, 09:23 AM
Hi, all. I'm trying to refine my technique in Lathing, in a number of different ways, and I have two questions: Q 1: No matter which tool I use to draw the bowl profile, I have got the habit of hitting 'V' and moving the selected points to the 0 point along the X axis, but, for reasons unknown to me, the resulting bowl sometimes has no bottom at all, sometimes is complete but for a hole at the bottom center, and sometimes is 3 or 4 times the size I was expecting. Any suggestions?
Q. 2: Is there any way to reset the interface to discard the previous attempts at a shape? My only recourse so far has been to restart the application.

BeeVee
01-24-2019, 04:43 PM
Do you have the Numeric panel open? I recommend you make your main Modeler window just a bit narrower so you space down the side in which to put Numeric (N), Statistics (W) and Layers (F7). In the attached image you'll see that I have the Vertex Maps panel (F8) open as well, but I don't always need that, so I'm fine with it floating.

In the Numeric panel at the top right, you should see an Actions dropdown at the top of the window? Try clicking on that.
143945

HTH

B

Birck Cox
01-25-2019, 05:25 AM
Hello, guys. I figured out the answer to the first question. Or at least a way of narrowing down the problems-hit 'F'. I should have tried that before asking the question. And Thanks to BV for the suggestion about arranging my window and using 'Reset' in the Numeric panel. I haven't given it the acid test yet, but I've never used it, either, so that may be the answer.