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prometheus
12-30-2018, 12:52 PM
Well I really wish I could have procedural textures working in blender as they do work in Lightwave, and the vast amount of them as well.
From time to time I get a bit frustraded that blender doesnīt have that much procedural in there to work with...and for instance, many of the displacement textures canīt be used as surface textures, like clouds or voronoi with the parameter to change noised types.

In Lightwave it doesnīt really matter, you can use any standard fractal noise or node textures from the library as surface or displacement texture..they are the same.
Additional textures from dpont is great, and we also have IFW textures to purchase if needed, a bit of a a shame that simbiont textures will not work..it had some cool ones.

Grass is not all that green on the other side here when it comes to procedural textures, in blender however..it is a bit easier to use openGL to view them, while Lightwave have some issues with the shading and some of the procedurals.

Everyone of lightwaves procedural texture, or images has an invert checkbox, while in blender that is sadly missing..you have to add invert nodes and connect them.

Ztreem
12-30-2018, 02:36 PM
I think you can create many of LW’s textures in Blender with just a few nodes...

prometheus
12-30-2018, 02:53 PM
I think you can create many of LW’s textures in Blender with just a few nodes...

No I do not think so..do you realize how many different kind of procedural lightwave Has? and how many functions you have to change tiny things, I dot thing blender can come close to Many of them.
It is more fair to say that it is possible it can create some of them, but no one near to replicate a lot of them.

But what worries me is that I can not use clouds texture in node format in blender surfacing, unless I am missing something, and that the voronoi texture misses the Feature weights and distance metric settings...if you were to use a brush mask or a displacement textures, clouds and these other settings in voronoi textures are there, but not in node textures.

And for functionality..no node, nor no fractal texture has any invert option check within the texture..unlike lightwave.

So in many ways I prefer Lightwave procedurals, both nodes and standard layers can be used within nodes, and for surfacing and displacement...I generally prefer the standard layers though since I can stack multiple fractals on top of eachother, like when working with fluids and let stacked fractal layers control how a cloud build up is made based on subtractive layers...I can not find a way to do that in blender yet.
Same goes with subtracting or use previous layer gradients using various fractal layers for terrain generation.

I really have used a lot of fractals for displacements, particle distortion, generation, for fluids etc...in my eyes, I feel that Lightwave does a much better job in terms of giving you a vast library to work with, and that they work
across various fields in a better way, and they are more fast functional when it comes to invert and control gradients and stacking mixing them.

I really love blender and things you can do in there..which you canīt do in Lightwave..but procedural textures in blender isnīt itīs strength really, and I would really need more procedurals to really get the most out of it.

Ztreem
12-30-2018, 03:54 PM
No I do not think so..do you realize how many different kind of procedural lightwave Has? and how many functions you have to change tiny things, I dot thing blender can come close to Many of them.
It is more fair to say that it is possible it can create some of them, but no one near to replicate a lot of them.

But what worries me is that I can not use clouds texture in node format in blender surfacing, unless I am missing something, and that the voronoi texture misses the Feature weights and distance metric settings...if you were to use a brush mask or a displacement textures, clouds and these other settings in voronoi textures are there, but not in node textures.

And for functionality..no node, nor no fractal texture has any invert option check within the texture..unlike lightwave.

So in many ways I prefer Lightwave procedurals, both nodes and standard layers can be used within nodes, and for surfacing and displacement...I generally prefer the standard layers though since I can stack multiple fractals on top of eachother, like when working with fluids and let stacked fractal layers control how a cloud build up is made based on subtractive layers...I can not find a way to do that in blender yet.
Same goes with subtracting or use previous layer gradients using various fractal layers for terrain generation.

I really have used a lot of fractals for displacements, particle distortion, generation, for fluids etc...in my eyes, I feel that Lightwave does a much better job in terms of giving you a vast library to work with, and that they work
across various fields in a better way, and they are more fast functional when it comes to invert and control gradients and stacking mixing them.

I really love blender and things you can do in there..which you canīt do in Lightwave..but procedural textures in blender isnīt itīs strength really, and I would really need more procedurals to really get the most out of it.

There could be more procedurals in blender for sure. I don’t use or rely so much on procedural textures in my daily work but I really think that they are really useful as you can in many cases skip UV’s. I don’t do much of landscapes and nature kind of things. I mostly do visualization of products and design concepts at work and my personal work is more about characters and games.
I did some quick tests with procedurals before christmas and could at least produce turbulance, crumble, crust, flakes, fbm, checkerboard and wood + a lot of effects that I’ve not seen in LW. With more experiments I belive that more textures could be recreated, maybe not all but many of the native ones.

prometheus
12-30-2018, 04:20 PM
There could be more procedurals in blender for sure. I don’t use or rely so much on procedural textures in my daily work but I really think that they are really useful as you can in many cases skip UV’s. I don’t do much of landscapes and nature kind of things. I mostly do visualization of products and design concepts at work and my personal work is more about characters and games.
I did some quick tests with procedurals before christmas and could at least produce turbulance, crumble, crust, flakes, fbm, checkerboard and wood + a lot of effects that I’ve not seen in LW. With more experiments I belive that more textures could be recreated, maybe not all but many of the native ones.

Well..two different kinds of focus for what we create perhaps.
Let me know if you can showcase the procedurals you have not seen in Lightwave, then maybe I can check what kind of procedural Lightwave would have to use to create it.

The fact that you havenīt seen in in Lightwave..can also be a case of a " creator not having it made yet"
It of course applies the other way around, but I really believe You need to setup several nodes and tweak stuff in a much harder way
than using one of the many procedural in Lightwave with itīs build in parameters.

One important aspect of the procedurals is being able to invert them without any fuzz, can yield a completely differnt style an shape of what you want, in blender that is a mess with adding node invert..which you can not swap to any altered state either..just remove it or us it.

There is One are in lightwave where this is lacking though..and that is in the hypervoxels drop down list, you have to go nodes in order to be able to invert them, I had hoped for a new system which allowed for that..instead we got a new system that only can use a node editor in the first place to add volumetric texture...Oh well..My point of view on that is that they took the wrong way of implementing a new volumetric system in a completely different workflow, instead of providing it in a new tab within the legacy hv system.


All this praise of Lightwave procedurals, the voronoi (not surface shading) procedural in blender is pretty nice with distance metric cheby, manhattan etc...I donīt think Lightwave had that natively, you need the CTBF PROCEDURAL plugin (FREE)
with that you have the similar voronoi procedural.

Weather, weaves, pipes,gardner clouds, turbulent noise, rocks, crackle (node only) dented, fbm, waves, ripple..animated, smokey, and much much more..
The good thing is that they seem to work in all places, if I want to texture something, if I want to displace rocks or other things, If I want to use volumetric lights with sprite mode for nebula or special effects, distort a lenflare image to bend lights with the textured displacement method, which I also use for nebulaeīs or even for slight distortion in surface or displacements on rocks.

the options would be more awesome if I had invested in IFW textures ..and if simbiont shaders, textures could work in 2018, I think the simbiont stuff was only 32 bit...and since Lightwave now only is 64 and no more simbiont support, that is a no no..it had some great space stuff in there, and some scifi panel stuff, a few good alien rock stuff as well.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143741&d=1546211399

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143742&d=1546211668


143742

143741

prometheus
12-30-2018, 04:32 PM
To note...further adding on the functionality within the procedurals, apart from inverting, you hals have coordinates set up, transform, rotations etc..whin in blender requires additional nodes.

MonroePoteet
12-30-2018, 04:42 PM
I really like LW procedural textures:

143744 143745
143746 143747

MOV file (with sound): 143743

mTp

Rayek
12-30-2018, 05:46 PM
Well, there's this guy who created a library of a wide variety of procedural texture node setups. Download and use.
https://blenderartists.org/t/my-100-free-cycles-procedural-textures-blend-files-and-or-settings-included/1113432

prometheus
12-30-2018, 05:46 PM
An old vid where I wanted some lightwave procedurals to be translated in to a sculpting brush in blender, I set it up with hypervoxels sprites, and so easy to stack add various procedurals and render out a brush.
You can of course use procedural textures directly in blender, which contains unlimited detail as opposed to a pre-made images brush..though itīs not necessary most of the times a good image map for a brush should be sufficient.

The problem with stacking various procedurals in blender..you have to add them per modifier basis, and not just a texture layer on top of others as in Lightwave..it gets more clunky and making sure you select the right textures, the texture settings and the displacement modifier, or if using anchored stroke method in blender to sculpt drag a textures, I can only see the option to use one procedural texture at a time ..if sculpting in Lightwave would be possible in Lightwave, we could use several textures making up the final result..not just one procedural as in blender (if I am not mistaken) displacments is another thing in blender ..you can stack those, but sculpt brush textures..do not know?

In fact..with drag texture You can use several Lightwave textures to create a certain results as I can recall...drag texture for displacing a mesh in lw modeler.. can however not be compared to the sculpting greatness in Blender.
I can not see a way to create locally designed sculpt areas in Lightwave though..as I can in blender.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eHiR4Y3T1M

prometheus
12-30-2018, 05:54 PM
Well, there's this guy who created a library of a wide variety of procedural texture node setups. Download and use.
https://blenderartists.org/t/my-100-free-cycles-procedural-textures-blend-files-and-or-settings-included/1113432

Thanks..may be helpful, even though I am hoping there will be more actual procedurals showing up soon for blender.
As I understand it..the node setup can not be used with sculpting with brush textures?

Edited..sorry, my lack of blender understanding and learning, activating nodes for the brush is needed, then you can probably reroute and stack procedural textures, clouds work within that as well.

Rayek..you do not happen to know of additional ones apart from a mixture of basic procedurals in node setups?

I like the cloud procedural for sculpting rock stuff actually..if set right that can yield nice structures, voronoi F1-F" as basis for the cloud fractal is what I commonly use most.
Though the only way I can find to invert it is to use subtract..but that isnīt a proper invert of the texture itself..it brings on sculpt invert results you may not want, and the other way is to change from soft to hard for the noise..that seems to kind of invert the noise in the cloud fractal.
As mentioned..I would like to be able to stack texture layers, subtracting, alpha or deform as we can in lightwave..but not sure that is doable when sculpting with textures in blender.

Ztreem
12-30-2018, 05:56 PM
Well, there's this guy who created a library of a wide variety of procedural texture node setups. Download and use.
https://blenderartists.org/t/my-100-free-cycles-procedural-textures-blend-files-and-or-settings-included/1113432

Thanks for the reminder. I saw those months ago and thought I should download and test, but forgot. So much to learn and test and so little time. :)

Ztreem
12-30-2018, 06:01 PM
Thanks..may be helpful, even though I am hoping there will be more actual procedurals showing up soon for blender.
Rayek..you do not happen to know of additional ones apart from a mixture of basic procedurals in node setups?

I like the cloud procedural for sculpting rock stuff actually..if set right that can yield nice structures, voronoi F1-F" as basis for the cloud fractal is what I commonly use most.
Though the only way I can find to invert it is to use subtract..but that isnīt a proper invert of the texture itself..it brings on sculpt invert results you may not want, and the other way is to change from soft to hard for the noise..that seems to kind of invert the noise in the cloud fractal.
As mentioned..I would like to be able to stack texture layers, subtracting, alpha or deform as we can in lightwave..but not sure that is doable when sculpting with textures in blender.

Why don’t you use nodes? Then you can add, subtract, multiply or whatever you want. Nodes are so much quicker in Blender than LW. For the invert node you can just mute it if you dont want it, you dont have to delete or reroute.

prometheus
12-30-2018, 06:05 PM
Why don’t you use nodes? Then you can add, subtract, multiply or whatever you want. Nodes are so much quicker in Blender than LW. For the invert node you can just mute it if you dont want it, you dont have to delete or reroute.

See my corrected post 10 in orange.
My lack of using nodes in blender and make sure to check use nodes and select the right node type (brush) that made me think it wasnīt possible.

I agree with you..nodes are better and faster in blender, but I wouldnīt say that workflow is smoother than just stacking layers as in lightwave, in fact I think nodes are more convoluted in order to get the job done.
The thing is that you have to be aware of things much more with that kind of use with nodes, such as entering nodes, make sure you select brush nodes, add the nodes connect them etc...and on top of that select the matching noise texture datablock that is connected to the texture itself.

That is why I obtusely persist that the simpler workflow is faster and smoother in Lightwave...Had we only had the possibility to sculpt in (modeler and layout)

Forgot about the mute :) just a function not available in front of you.

prometheus
12-30-2018, 06:29 PM
I do get noise distortions..tiny tiny peaks that I can not seem to get rid of when using anchored stroke drag method for a sculpt in blender, this doesnīt occour when I use non node procedural textures.
it happens alos with other procedurals.

And the post is spinning of topic to more of blender related( me to blame partly) a need to try and stay on track is lurking.

Ztreem
12-31-2018, 03:52 AM
I do get noise distortions..tiny tiny peaks that I can not seem to get rid of when using anchored stroke drag method for a sculpt in blender, this doesnīt occour when I use non node procedural textures.
it happens alos with other procedurals.

And the post is spinning of topic to more of blender related( me to blame partly) a need to try and stay on track is lurking.

Maybe you can add a clamp node to get rid of the noise.

Back to LW:

Even in LW nodes are much more flexible than layers. Layers may be faster to setup(sometimes) but they are also very limited in what you can achieve. You can’t uv map a procedural with layers for example.
They could do the nodes UI much better and faster, but that will surely take forever.

Sensei
12-31-2018, 04:02 AM
Well I really wish I could have procedural textures working in blender as they do work in Lightwave, and the vast amount of them as well.

You can have them (sort of), if you will bake them in LW, you can import in any 3rd party app....

That's what for Surface Baking Camera, or Batch Baking Camera, were created.

I made recently Bake Scene tool, so you can make geometry in LW, apply procedural textures, bake objects to MDD or object-sequence, and import them wherever you want.

prometheus
12-31-2018, 08:25 AM
Maybe you can add a clamp node to get rid of the noise.

Back to LW:

Even in LW nodes are much more flexible than layers. Layers may be faster to setup(sometimes) but they are also very limited in what you can achieve. You can’t uv map a procedural with layers for example.
They could do the nodes UI much better and faster, but that will surely take forever.

I added some nodes, math node and clamp various modes, that did nothing...the problem still persist and I may have to ask on blender forums soon.

Agree to some extent with lw nodes, the thing is I think the nodes interfere with that speed of setting things up a bit too much, layers are more flexible in the sense that I can uncheck it change order, inverse them or add previous layers or texture displacement in a way that is much faster and flexible in a kind of way than I feel nodes can do, there are limits compared to nodes, but in general I prefer to work with layers, I get a more sense of artistic control by changing layers opacity values and previous layer gradients etc.

If we could swap out nodes in an instant, instead of adding them manually that would be nice, guess itīs a bit of personal choice..I am not unfamiliar with nodes...but it still hasnīt sunk in to my spine that it is a better workflow All the time.

The UI for nodes in blender is great..but I just donīt get why they have a lousy support within the nodes, as I previously mentioned, a node texture in lightwave has coordinates already set within the node for rotation and scaling etc, in blender that is not so..you need additional nodes, same goes with the invert option...built in in each lightwave procedural node, in blender itīs one additional node.

Were Lightwave to have the same UI for nodes as blender, then I would rather work with the lightwave nodes..Lightwave does have a lot of nodes to choose from as a plus, but currently the Lightwave node UI needs a lot of improvement.

I am a Layer guy, not a node guy..I was more comfortable with After Effects layering system than Fusions node system, though agreed..nodes can be wonderful when you can swap out stuff, mute a node and mix stuff and I am fully aware of the capabilities with nodes that in many ways can surpass what you can do with layering, but itīs still in conflict with my workflow when I feel I have a more direkt responsive feedback with layering systems.

One thing I really hate with the nodes gradients, I want the gradients to work like in the layer system when you use scale keys and shift keys, that isnīt available in gradient node, as standard layers in nodes yes..but that is not the same.

prometheus
12-31-2018, 08:34 AM
You can have them (sort of), if you will bake them in LW, you can import in any 3rd party app....

That's what for Surface Baking Camera, or Batch Baking Camera, were created.

I made recently Bake Scene tool, so you can make geometry in LW, apply procedural textures, bake objects to MDD or object-sequence, and import them wherever you want.

Bake them? why would I do that, that wouldnīt bring in procedurals as procedurals..just as images,

didnīt you see my vid of me making a sculpting brush in blender..based on Lightwave fractals on sprites..which I rendered out, I could just do it that way..no need to bake ...Or did I miss something?
I know how to bake, but I didnīt need those cookies this time.
Baking procedurals in to the object for use in other applications is another thing though.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eHiR4Y3T1M&t=3s

hrgiger
12-31-2018, 11:45 AM
Thing you're missing in LW that Blender has (and MODO) for procedural textures is micropoly displacement. So grass is always greener thing....

Asticles
01-01-2019, 04:44 AM
It could not be microdisplacement, but still makes fine details.

143758

Regards

Asticles
01-01-2019, 04:58 AM
But yeah, would be nice to have a good displacement with big objects and less memory.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-01-2019, 05:59 AM
LW displacement is visible in the viewport, can be fine tuned to the extreme with nodes and is exponentially faster and more interactive than Modo and Max. Not sure about the latest Blender.

Would like to see true micro in LW some day...it is undoubtedly a deal-breaker for some jobs....but normal maps layered over nodal displacement are much faster and fine for many situations. Greebles and jutting circuitry and other such sharply defined details are not a good fit for lightwave displacement.

Depends on the project.

prometheus
01-01-2019, 07:55 AM
Thing you're missing in LW that Blender has (and MODO) for procedural textures is micropoly displacement. So grass is always greener thing....

That is another technical sidestory albeit connected to procedural textures in a way...but yeah, I am all for full micropoly displacement.

It is however not improving the lack of procedural textures in blender.

Ztreem
01-01-2019, 09:14 AM
That is another technical sidestory albeit connected to procedural textures in a way...but yeah, I am all for full micropoly displacement.

It is however not improving the lack of procedural textures in blender.

And same goes for LW, all the procedural textures in world will never improve the lack of a proper undo and unified work environnent etc. :D

Chris S. (Fez)
01-01-2019, 09:54 AM
And same goes for LW, all the procedural textures in world will never improve the lack of a proper undo and unified work environnent etc. :D

Which is OT. But you already knew that.

Ztreem
01-01-2019, 10:47 AM
Which is OT. But you already knew that.

Yes and you stated the obvious with an OT post, super!

prometheus
01-01-2019, 11:08 AM
And same goes for LW, all the procedural textures in world will never improve the lack of a proper undo and unified work environnent etc. :D

I think that is a bit irrelevant and of topic actually, I could do more with Lw procedurals for certain things with itīs volumetric lights or hvs, than I could do with blender..though it of course depends on how much I use blender as well, but generally Lightwave is much faster for certain things and allows for a certain type of creativity.

You are excusing blender lack of procedurals with attacks on Lightwave develepment and lacking in certain system areas ...which has not much to do with procedurals with the connection to LW procedurals.
As for proper undo, all the procedurals can be modified at any time, maybe only that you can not undo value changes within a procedural..but that is a long shot.

I could go on rampage on things lacking here and there in Lightwave and In blender, but it would be too much off topics...the fact is this, lightwave has much more procedurals, and not just much more, its also quite varied, we canīt go on and put assertments in there that for instance blender has GPU rendering, and ambbient occlusion shading and scultping etc..Most of us know this and it isnīt related to Procedural textures in any close form.

For Unified environment, I do not see how much that has to do with the procedurals..I need an example.

I assert you are wrong..All the Lightwave procedurals in the world will make lightwave better in terms of having acess to procedurals and enhance creativity in a certain way, plain and simple..it wonīt make the software better in other areas and that is not the point.

hrgiger
01-01-2019, 11:11 AM
That is another technical sidestory albeit connected to procedural textures in a way...but yeah, I am all for full micropoly displacement.

It is however not improving the lack of procedural textures in blender.

No. But I'm still pretty new to texturing in Blender. My guess is there is a lot of 3rd party support for Blender. There are either existing answers to your concerns, and if not, there's a good chance there may be at some point sooner or later. But then that's why I made the grass is greener comment. You'll never have another app that does everything as good or better than all the others, but if you look at Blender overall, seems like you're gaining a lot more than you're losing, especially for the type of work I've seen you do with volumetrics and other things.

Concerning speed. That seems to be everyones argument and case closed comment when it comes to shortcomings in LW. Well I can do it faster in LW. And if that's enough for you, great. I just got tired of all the things that simply weren't possible or involved convoluted workarounds, the fact that something seems slower on the surface isn't really of great concern to me.

prometheus
01-01-2019, 11:19 AM
but if you look at Blender overall, seems like you're gaining a lot more than you're losing, especially for the type of work I've seen you do with volumetrics and other things.

Concerning speed. That seems to be everyones argument and case closed comment when it comes to shortcomings in LW. Well I can do it faster in LW. And if that's enough for you, great. I just got tired of all the things that simply weren't possible or involved convoluted workarounds, the fact that something seems slower on the surface isn't really of great concern to me.

Well..It is true that I more often now focus on working in blender, but listen, I say it again..the workflow for some stuff in Lightwave in my perspective for some stuff I did and do, has been the best to do in Lightwave...Ivé tried blender for some similar stuff but then there you are really getting tangled in taking much more setups to acheive stuff with sprites and similar, same goes with Modo, and Blender as well.
Some of it concerns the volumetric lights and hv interface, ..Unfortunately the volumetric sprite lights is no more in 2018..which dissapointed me a lot, and the new volumetrics turned to a completely different workflow..which I do not like, instead of implementing it in the older hv tab, but with a new volumetric tab so you could choose older legacy or newer volumetrics..

I simple do not see the same ease of using a null or empty object or item object and put volumetrics on them in blender, fluid fire and smoke is another thing though, I really like it in blender..it can emitt from weight maps, and opengL fire and smoke at the same time, and multiscattering with GPU that in Lightwave tfd takes very long time and recalculation, TFD also needs to old legacy..and you do not want to save out vdb just to get the new volumetrics.

So some of these shortcomings i just mentioned, is part of why I spend more time in blender, but Lightwave still have many advantages.

If I go in to deep in to the comparison between the programs, I donīt think that would be fitting to the forums, I can put that up on my own blog with special comparison on how I percieve certain tasks between these two nice
3d software.

What I try to do with this thread is give praise to the fact that Lightwave has so many great procedurals..and with a hint that I miss such stuff in blender for instance.
To often I feel many of us come to overall judgement and conclusions, this makes this and that software lesseer good etc....I myself may have had that tendency also , but I think it may be more creative to discuss more focused on
what the topic is..and not spin of on rampage over too much General judgements.

Ztreem
01-01-2019, 12:30 PM
I think that is a bit irrelevant and of topic actually, I could do more with Lw procedurals for certain things with itīs volumetric lights or hvs, than I could do with blender..though it of course depends on how much I use blender as well, but generally Lightwave is much faster for certain things and allows for a certain type of creativity.

You are excusing blender lack of procedurals with attacks on Lightwave develepment and lacking in certain system areas ...which has not much to do with procedurals with the connection to LW procedurals.
As for proper undo, all the procedurals can be modified at any time, maybe only that you can not undo value changes within a procedural..but that is a long shot.

I could go on rampage on things lacking here and there in Lightwave and In blender, but it would be too much off topics...the fact is this, lightwave has much more procedurals, and not just much more, its also quite varied, we canīt go on and put assertments in there that for instance blender has GPU rendering, and ambbient occlusion shading and scultping etc..Most of us know this and it isnīt related to Procedural textures in any close form.

For Unified environment, I do not see how much that has to do with the procedurals..I need an example.

I assert you are wrong..All the Lightwave procedurals in the world will make lightwave better in terms of having acess to procedurals and enhance creativity in a certain way, plain and simple..it wonīt make the software better in other areas and that is not the point.


I think that is a bit irrelevant and of topic actually, I could do more with Lw procedurals for certain things with itīs volumetric lights or hvs, than I could do with blender..though it of course depends on how much I use blender as well, but generally Lightwave is much faster for certain things and allows for a certain type of creativity.

You are excusing blender lack of procedurals with attacks on Lightwave develepment and lacking in certain system areas ...which has not much to do with procedurals with the connection to LW procedurals.
As for proper undo, all the procedurals can be modified at any time, maybe only that you can not undo value changes within a procedural..but that is a long shot.

I could go on rampage on things lacking here and there in Lightwave and In blender, but it would be too much off topics...the fact is this, lightwave has much more procedurals, and not just much more, its also quite varied, we canīt go on and put assertments in there that for instance blender has GPU rendering, and ambbient occlusion shading and scultping etc..Most of us know this and it isnīt related to Procedural textures in any close form.

For Unified environment, I do not see how much that has to do with the procedurals..I need an example.

I assert you are wrong..All the Lightwave procedurals in the world will make lightwave better in terms of having acess to procedurals and enhance creativity in a certain way, plain and simple..it wonīt make the software better in other areas and that is not the point.

First of all I think the whole thread is OT as you started it with wishing for Blender to have the same amount of procedural textures as LightWave. I would say that this is something of a feature request better suited for the Blender forums.

Second if you can do so much and so fast with LW, why try to do it in Blender?

I just look at the whole creation process for my work (this is my view and may not be the same for you or others). Even if working with procedurals and displacements are faster and even superior in LW it doesn’t help me much as the whole split application approach and missing features ruin the whole process both in creativity and speed. If I would do the procedural work in LW and the rest in another app I still have to bake it and loosing the benefit of the procedural approach, so no gain really. So in the end many lovely procedural textures is just one feature of many and when you look at the whole package it’s not enough.

If you want more procedurals in Blender, engage in Blender forums about the topic or send feature requests to Blender devs.

If you want LW to behave more like Blender send feature request to the lw devs.

prometheus
01-01-2019, 12:49 PM
First of all I think the whole thread is OT as you started it with wishing for Blender to have the same amount of procedural textures as LightWave. I would say that this is something of a feature request better suited for the Blender forums.

Second if you can do so much and so fast with LW, why try to do it in Blender?

I just look at the whole creation process for my work (this is my view and may not be the same for you or others). Even if working with procedurals and displacements are faster and even superior in LW it doesn’t help me much as the whole split application approach and missing features ruin the whole process both in creativity and speed. If I would do the procedural work in LW and the rest in another app I still have to bake it and loosing the benefit of the procedural approach, so no gain really. So in the end many lovely procedural textures is just one feature of many and when you look at the whole package it’s not enough.

If you want more procedurals in Blender, engage in Blender forums about the topic or send feature requests to Blender devs.

If you want LW to behave more like Blender send feature request to the lw devs.


I dont follow you ..How can the thread be off topic? ..You may be right that it is question better suited for the blender forum, but it wasnīt a feature request aimed towards anyone responsible for a starter, it was a wish..and praise of lightwave having them.

it wasnīt specificly a request to have someone here produce procedurals for blender, based on the fact that lightwave has so many good ones, I think you project what I wish in to a kind of request that better belongs in a Blender forum, Honestly..it seems you got a hickup today around all this off topic stuff and continous to debate it just for the sake of it, correct me if I am wrong?
I was praising the great lw procedurals...the fact that I wish we also could have it in another software is just a praise for what it does for Lightwave.

I was simply praising the lw procedurals, of course I could and will request it in blender forums as well.

As for if I could do it so fast in Lightwave (and so much..which I didnīt really say) Yes I can do certain things fast, and You are absolutely right..why should I do that in blender, and the answer is..I donīt, that doesnīt mean I could benefit from more procedurals in blender, or similar approaches...remember that I may cook up a scene with fluids, smoke..and would like to use blender for that, but at the same time do some other stuff I usaully use Lightwave for.
I donīt think you can simplify it like you say..."why do it in blender" it depends on what scene or result I want, it canīt be disected down to a donīt do it in this or that in such case.

MonroePoteet
01-02-2019, 07:49 AM
For my part, I hope LWDG doesn't abandon the Layer approach to textures (procedural or otherwise) in favor of nodes, but offers both. Being able to quickly set up a "stack" of procedurals, images, gradients, alpha channels, multipliers, additive layers, etc. with the Scalar / Bump / Color Layers is a very effective and efficient workflow (for me at least!), and provides a kind of "Compound Node" encapsulation of what can be very complex layering. That entire texture stack can be applied directly in LW Texture buttons or occupies a single node in the node network.

mTp

mummyman
01-02-2019, 08:06 AM
For my part, I hope LWDG doesn't abandon the Layer approach to textures (procedural or otherwise) in favor of nodes, but offers both. Being able to quickly set up a "stack" of procedurals, images, gradients, alpha channels, multipliers, additive layers, etc. with the Scalar / Bump / Color Layers is a very effective and efficient workflow (for me at least!), and provides a kind of "Compound Node" encapsulation of what can be very complex layering. That entire texture stack can be applied directly in LW Texture buttons or occupies a single node in the node network.

mTp

Agreed!... to this and the thread title. I use them all the time for texturing / displacement. I was just complaining about not being able to see procedurals in the viewport in other programs without baking them first in LW. Using Redshift's procedurals (I think) don't show until you render them. IF LW ever goes GPU rendering... wonder if that will change.

prometheus
01-02-2019, 08:55 AM
Agreed!... to this and the thread title. I use them all the time for texturing / displacement. I was just complaining about not being able to see procedurals in the viewport in other programs without baking them first in LW. Using Redshift's procedurals (I think) don't show until you render them. IF LW ever goes GPU rendering... wonder if that will change.

I agree also.

But that is more to the way layering textures work, it offers advantages over nodes sometimes and for the specifi things I do, but in other ways it lacks certain things like connecting transparency with a multinode setup so once you change an image ..the transparency layer follow as well..were it to be layered, I would have to copy and paste the procedural I am tweaking and replace it.

As for seeing procedurals in viewports, OpengL...lightwave has some procedurals that doesnīt show in opengl, vpr is a different matter where everything is rendered, I wouldnīt expect anything else there..
In blender as I can see it, the procedurals seem to work in opengl, but I havenīt tried them all there, and for blender cycles IPR, those should render as well.

Dented doesnīt work in opengl for lightwave, not fbm noise, not puffy clouds, not turbulent noise..which is my favourite many times, I havenīt sent a request about fixing that...I know I should, in fact there are very vew that works in opengl with GLSLShaders opengl mode.

Cageman
01-02-2019, 10:40 AM
Dented doesnīt work in opengl for lightwave, not fbm noise, not puffy clouds, not turbulent noise..which is my favourite many times, I havenīt sent a request about fixing that...I know I should, in fact there are very vew that works in opengl with GLSLShaders opengl mode.

Testing this in LW2018, I can't find Dented or Puffy Clouds, but the rest you mention works perfectly well in OGL.

EDIT: Maybe we are talking about different things though; I am talking about displacement textures and not colour. Maybe that is what you are refering to... ?

prometheus
01-02-2019, 11:29 AM
Testing this in LW2018, I can't find Dented or Puffy Clouds, but the rest you mention works perfectly well in OGL.

EDIT: Maybe we are talking about different things though; I am talking about displacement textures and not colour. Maybe that is what you are refering to... ?

Yep...every procedural works as a displacement, unless being special procedural as filters, single deformer that isnīt a texture that is..it always has as I am aware of, I am refering to color presentation in the OpenGL window, with GLSL shaders mode.

Few of them works, a lot of others doesnīt work.


As for what you say about dented and puffy clouds, you are probably trying to displace through nodes, they have almost always been there in standard displacement or normal displacement drop down modifier in 2015.
It is correct that dented has never been made as a node procedural unfortunately, you would have to use node standard layer and acess it from there, but it kind of lack the flexibility in such case where a node would benefit from being a node procedural, same with puffy clouds.

That isnīt unique for 2018, it has been the same for 2015, those are simply missing as a proper node rewrite of the procedural.

Cageman
01-03-2019, 04:24 PM
Yep...every procedural works as a displacement, unless being special procedural as filters, single deformer that isnīt a texture that is..it always has as I am aware of, I am refering to color presentation in the OpenGL window, with GLSL shaders mode.

Few of them works, a lot of others doesnīt work.


As for what you say about dented and puffy clouds, you are probably trying to displace through nodes, they have almost always been there in standard displacement or normal displacement drop down modifier in 2015.
It is correct that dented has never been made as a node procedural unfortunately, you would have to use node standard layer and acess it from there, but it kind of lack the flexibility in such case where a node would benefit from being a node procedural, same with puffy clouds.

That isnīt unique for 2018, it has been the same for 2015, those are simply missing as a proper node rewrite of the procedural.

Yeah... I noticed this when I was playing around with Layers and not just Nodes... thanks for clarifying this. :)

prometheus
01-04-2019, 07:48 AM
I do miss the simbiont textures ..which was a part of the simbiont shaders, with 2018 which is 64 bit only, we can no longer use them..and the simbiont devs says they are not supporting it anymore.
So we got a slightly reduced arsenal in 2018, thank god for denis who updated his nodes for 2018, so we also could use the node version of Rman collection.

https://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119370&d=1390001978


Just a few of them...

http://www.darksim.com/Repository/tx_Interior/
http://www.darksim.com/Repository/tx_Bio/
http://www.darksim.com/Repository/tx_Space/

Full list here..http://www.darksim.com/Repository/index.html

prometheus
01-04-2019, 08:04 AM
Double post

prometheus
01-04-2019, 08:34 AM
Correcting myself, I checked the site, not a single exefile can be downloaded from there, but I found in my old plugins folder, a 64 bit version of it...I may try and install that and see what happens...so it may be possible we still can get
acess to them on 64 bit, but if it works in 2018 may also be very uncertain.

And I recall it was messy to install, here is a thread where erikals deals with how to install it..I forgot it, and some of the simbiont dev team explaining why they donīt support it..
https://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-118680.html

The links to the newer versions are not working though..seems they removed it.