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wesleycorgi
12-15-2018, 09:52 AM
Well, just a quick comment: While they're available for LW on Windows, they are not (yet?) available for Mac LW. As a result, for LW2018 customers on Mac, the issues associated with their absence are still very real.

Sorry to go off topic, but I'm curious John: why do you stick with Mac? I finally stopped fighting against Windows this year and it opened up "windows" of opportunities. I can now use all the software that I couldn't before, including a wealth of LW plugins. Apple gave up on its professional Mac users, so I gave up on Apple. Now instead of buying the underwhelming hardware at 2x (closer to 3x), I have a lot more choices. Instead of having some weird touch panel on the keyboard on my laptop, I can have a touchscreen display. In fact, for the amount that it cost for a low-end MacBook Pro, I bought an Ultrabook 2-in-1 and a workstation class 17" laptop with a proper Nvidia GPU.

pauland
12-15-2018, 10:15 AM
why do you stick with Mac?.

..sigh.

You make your choices and let the rest of us make ours. It's cool to be a Windows user and cool to be a Mac user.

wesleycorgi
12-15-2018, 12:29 PM
..sigh.

You make your choices and let the rest of us make ours. It's cool to be a Windows user and cool to be a Mac user.

Fair enough. Believe me, I was in the Mac cult until this year. As I sit at my home desk, I have my Mac Pro cheese grater next to my leg gathering dust and a stack of a decades worth of various Mac minis and MacBook Pros sitting on my shelf.

At a time, I myself had a rationale for "keeping the faith." I am just curious what keeps people tied to the Mac OS (and hardware). My last hold out was for Mac only software like Final Cut Pro (and this is a very compelling reason - no other editor has some of its real-time rendering capabilities).

pauland
12-15-2018, 01:29 PM
I'm not a heavy LW user, but I smile when I use my Mac and enjoy using it in a way I never did as a Windows user. I should say that My favourite OS was Unix, I loved WindowsNT and windows seemed to be the OS that was forever being updated, had broken drivers, updates that wouldn't complete and computers that looked boring.

I kissed goodbye to all that when I started using Macs and when my phone rings I answer it using my Mac, I send my texts using my Mac . The whole extended family has bought into Apple's infrastructure. All our Apple equipment is second-user or discounted, but I'd rather have a second-user Mac than a new windows box.

There are some new things out where windows boxes look fantastic and the surface machines look interesting, but for the moment I'm perfectly happy with Apple stuff.

Do I think Apple is a greedy company charging too much? Absolutely.

If I was a heavy-duty LW user I might well have a windows box because of the grunt-to-cost ratio.

I'm not interested in Windows-MacOS wars.

RebelHill
12-15-2018, 02:22 PM
I'm not interested in Windows-MacOS wars

Burn the heathen... burn him, I say!

pauland
12-15-2018, 02:28 PM
burn the heathen... Burn him, i say!

lol

jwiede
12-15-2018, 03:05 PM
Not touching this with a ten foot pole. Mods should just close the thread.

Ma3rk
12-15-2018, 03:09 PM
Do I think Apple is a greedy company charging too much? Absolutely.

If I was a heavy-duty LW user I might well have a windows box because of the grunt-to-cost ratio.

I'm not interested in Windows-MacOS wars.

The real answer is to simply have both & use what's best & comfortable for the particular task.

They both have their pluses & minuses. Howver as more & more higher end graphics apps go the GPU route, the die is pretty much already cast it seems.

raymondtrace
12-15-2018, 03:15 PM
This would never be an issue if NewTek just offered LW for Linux. :)

When you work with computers long enough, you realize they all suck and none of them deserve affection or loyalty. Satisfy affection by adopting a shelter dog.

wesleycorgi
12-15-2018, 04:08 PM
I know that I'm a hypocrite because I use to call foul against Windows-bias and claim trolling when someone would bash Mac. Yet, here I am!

Yes, please close; I know better than to talk "religion" in these here forums!

pauland
12-15-2018, 04:16 PM
Well, the thread was originally about whether modeller had changed much in LW 2018 and it hasn't. I was looking to do some modelling for my 3D printer and I considered the LW 2018 upgrade but it would have been pretty pointless from a modelling perspective.

For the purposes of making 3D models I've just purchased Moment of Inspiration - non polygonal and in my opinion blows the LW modeller away, however there's never going to be fine control over polygon count.

Does nobody here use non-polygonal modellers with LW?

I just couldn't see myself making stuff like this with the LW modeller: https://www.koturanovic.com/view/22/

pauland
12-15-2018, 04:35 PM
Man, so suddenly my comment morphed me into another thread. Jeez.

Rayek
12-15-2018, 05:04 PM
http://www.upl.co/uploads/ucljmhyn1544918746.jpg

raymondtrace
12-15-2018, 05:50 PM
Does nobody here use non-polygonal modellers with LW?

Not personally but I receive data from engineers to render in LW. They speak a completely different modeling language than me, leading to interesting communication.

There are plenty of ways to generate 3D structures. All have their own unique benefit. A good companion to LW is an actual CAD program. FreeCAD ( https://www.freecadweb.org/ ) is a low cost (free) entry into CAD and any python skills you develop can be used with both FreeCAD and LW.

For me, LW2018 modeler has changed drastically in the past year as I added LWCAD, 3rdpowers and Trueart plugins. And I'm still doubling back to check out plugins I somehow missed, like free 64bit updates from Pictrix. https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?158725-Please-Pictrix-s-SP_MOVE-x64-bit

roboman
12-15-2018, 08:08 PM
It's sad. All the people who have sold out and are no longer running Lightwave on the Amiga, as it should be...... :)

erikals
12-15-2018, 08:32 PM
Mac = Looks cool and Attracts chicks.

jwiede
12-16-2018, 06:00 PM
Does nobody here use non-polygonal modellers with LW?

Yep, started with adding MoI at some pt, then later added Bonzai3D (eventually upgrading to full FormZ at v7), and then finally Rhino. Of the three, I find myself using MoI for quick stuff, and FormZ for more involved stuff (in part because it offers decent support for migrating geometry between NURBS-based and SDS-based configurations).

I added Rhino fairly recently, and largely for Grasshopper support, but have yet to fully "integrate" it into my workflow. With the addition of Grasshopper, it can do a bunch of stuff that FormZ cannot (yet, anyway). If FormZ were to add equivalent procedural-/parametric-focused control to Grasshopper, I'd probably just sell off my Rhino license altogether, as it's kind of redundant otherwise.

When working with that kind of stuff, I need high-precision ability to work with and replicate curved surfaces, and a more CSG-like toolset, so adding a NURBS-type more-CAD-like modeling pkg like FormZ/Rhino made perfect sense. MoI is good if you have occasional needs (and is great for format conversion as well), but lacks a lot of ops/tools that become fairly important once you get more seriously into NURBS-type modeling.

Now that FormZ has a full NURBS/poly/SDS toolset, in some ways it's a bit ahead of Rhino if you're mostly focusing on working with NURBS towards producing final poly/SDS-based geometry output (for rendering or whatever). However, Rhino's Grasshopper functionality is currently unmatched on FormZ, and pretty awesome for certain types of work.

Given the low cost, and high utility, I'd strongly recommend MoI just to have. It offers a lot of value outside "modeling" per se (such as NURBS/CAD format conversions, etc.), and so even if you need more than it offers for NURBS/CSG-type work, it'll still be quite useful (IME).

For anyone seriously considering more "complete" NURBS-/CSG-type modeling toolsets/pkgs, I strongly recommend trying both FormZ and Rhino and reach your own conclusions. They each have their "own way" of handling various common scenarios, and it's likely if one doesn't fit your workstyle well, the other may fit much better.

Julez4001
12-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Fair enough. Believe me, I was i.......c OS (and hardware). My last hold out was for Mac only software like Final Cut Pro (and this is a very compelling reason - no other editor has some of its real-time rendering capabilities).

What real time rendering capabilities still exist only in Final Cut Pro??

wesleycorgi
12-18-2018, 06:26 AM
What real time rendering capabilities still exist only in Final Cut Pro??

I misstated what FCPX does. What I mean is how Final Cut Pro X uses multi-threading and is rendering underneath the hood while you continue to edit. As a result, it renders much quicker than most NLE's (it toasts Premiere that's for sure!). However, I understand Resolve has multi-threading, but I have yet to plunge into Resolve. If you have a suggestion for a Windows NLE that is speedy as FCPX, that would be great.

raymondtrace
12-18-2018, 08:48 AM
I'm doubtful that is an exclusive feature for the past several years. Even a free, open source NLE like kdenlive can do multithreaded rendering as a background task.

wesleycorgi
12-18-2018, 12:31 PM
I'm doubtful that is an exclusive feature for the past several years. Even a free, open source NLE like kdenlive can do multithreaded rendering as a background task.

You're probably right. Whenever I see performance bake offs, I never see any other NLE approach the rendering speeds of FCPX. In a video I watched this morning where they compared FCPX, Premiere, and Resolve using a mix of media (1080P, 4K, etc.) FCPX took seconds, Resolve was about 2 minutes and Premiere took tens of minutes to render out a video. I would love to see performance comparisons of kdenlive or any other open source vs. FCPX.

Verlon
12-18-2018, 05:46 PM
All kinds of reasons. That is not to say that there aren't all kinds of reasons to make some other choice (masochists need computers too!).

FCPX is really fast at what it does and insanely easy to do powerful editing. It reminds me of an early SpeedEdit presentation where they talked about how NLEs were trapped trying to emulate editing film and ignored the power of digital. Resolve incorporating Fusion looks enticing though.

What I like about Mac is that is requires so much less tinkering than Windows. I recouped hours every week by not supporting Windows in my house. You want to run Windows? Fine. If it breaks, take it to Geek Squad. I will help with Mac problems, or will, if one ever comes up. No "why cant I find...." or "Why does internet explorer do this...." or "it just won't boot."

Once I moved my gaming to consoles (and much less gaming overall), I no longer needed to run Windows. I simply decided that I would not run software that didn't run on a Mac. I would find a way to make what I had work, and be done with it. There is plenty of good software for most needs. Sometimes screaming for more is just being a gear junkie. I do not need Lightwave AND Modo AND Blender AND Maya AND Max AND Cinema 4D. Being really good with 2 of those would cover more than enough ground. Only one of them doesn't support Mac anyway.

rpsolo
01-02-2019, 11:42 AM
I'm afraid to switch. I've used mac for nearly 30 years. I still don't know what video card to get that will let me use Octane. Or if I need an additional fan once I add that.
I've looked at PC alternatives but the prices seem to be about the same. Around 4 or 5 grand. I would appreciate any help. Sorry if I contributed to the offness of the topic.

Bitboy
01-02-2019, 12:22 PM
It's sad. All the people who have sold out and are no longer running Lightwave on the Amiga, as it should be...... :)

Well.. Getting my Amiga's up and running again with a Vampire card in one of them, so I'm tempted to try Lightwave on it since it'll be 200x faster that standard. Simply just because it could be fun. Anyone knows if it's possible to downgrade a Lightwave license and get the Amiga version for real? Or is getting it impossible? Chuck? :D

erikals
01-02-2019, 12:32 PM
I'm afraid to switch. I've used mac for nearly 30 years. I still don't know what video card to get that will let me use Octane. Or if I need an additional fan once I add that.
I've looked at PC alternatives but the prices seem to be about the same. Around 4 or 5 grand. I would appreciate any help. Sorry if I contributed to the offness of the topic.

get a cheap laptop PC, if you think the OS is ok, buy a PC, but assemble the parts yourself. way cheaper.
https://pcpartpicker.com

erikals
01-02-2019, 12:34 PM
Well.. Getting my Amiga's up and running again with a Vampire card in one of them, so I'm tempted to try Lightwave on it since it'll be 200x faster that standard. Simply just because it could be fun. Anyone knows if it's possible to downgrade a Lightwave license and get the Amiga version for real? Or is getting it impossible? Chuck? :D

probably not, though, perhaps you can find an old LW Amiga version on eBay, or here.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=LightWave+amiga&_sacat=0

Bitboy
01-02-2019, 12:45 PM
Thanks, it is mainly for fun since I have LW 2018 here on the PC. Been getting into the Amiga jive again with all the new hardware that's coming out for it. Fun times!

Back to the platform war! :D Even though I don't care about platforms, got a lot of different computers here - whatever works for anyone is fine I'd say.