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View Full Version : LW needs a new Cloth simulation system...



lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 01:28 AM
Clothfx, while it may work seems to have problems.

First it doesnt seem to be multithreaded, looking at cpu usage I only see about 20% being used
Second, It seems to get progressively slower as it continues.
Third, It wont abort unless I manage to hit it at just the right time, which is really annoying.

Bullet is great, it is just not usable with rigged characters, so for cloth its not an option.

If someone knows a way to use it with rigged characters, do tell...hehe.

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 01:38 AM
Ok remembered the hotkey to stop it, so direguard my third point on Clothfx...lol

jeric_synergy
11-28-2018, 01:53 AM
Is it CTRL?

I remember that simulations are hard to stop: why the ESC key isn't the default for such things I'll never know.

hrgiger
11-28-2018, 01:56 AM
It will never happen. Just buy Marvelous Designer. Incidentally, it's 50% off right now.


My latest PF video on Marvelous Designer 8.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUFz8Xcasi0

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 02:17 AM
Yep its CTRL..still have to machine gun it a little sometimes.

Yeah, I have MD8..just hadnt considered it for animation. Ironically, I made the dress Im using in LW in MD..lol.

hrgiger
11-28-2018, 03:07 AM
Sim in marvelous and bring it back to lw either via mdd or alembic.

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 03:29 AM
Was just now playing with that. Will have to play with settings in MD to eliminate the times when the cloth slips inside the body..but its looking good.

The fbx from LW loaded in just fine though.

Is there an advantage of alembic over mdd?

hrgiger
11-28-2018, 04:52 AM
Can’t say in lw as I’ve only used it with modo but alembic is faster. Mdd is faster in lw from what I recall.

JohnMarchant
11-28-2018, 05:13 AM
How good is Syflex inside LW.

MarkAH
11-28-2018, 05:53 AM
I have been playing with Bullet Cloth Sim using a rigged character.
The dress is not rigged, just the figure.
The dress is a tight fitting short skirt style and using 500 um collision spacing on both figure and skirt is working pretty well to avoid poke through. The dress surface needs to be double sided.
So far the remaining complication is gravity. Got to have gravity or when the skirt is raised by the figure raising a thigh it doesn't fall back down.
But there can be a conflict with getting the linear stiffness just right, so that it both does not cause poke through and does not let gravity totally deform the dress.
I'm thinking that using a much lower gravity force may do the trick.
Something I've learned is that the dress needs to be one single geometry, because if it's made in pieces they tend to get pulled appart by the various forces.
Limits the choices a lot though. I should probably try out Marvelous.
Downloaded a trial but never tried it.
I have not been able to get ClothFX to work at all. Don't know what's wrong but just gave up because bullet at least works.

Norka
11-28-2018, 08:15 AM
I thought Hurley was going to be making a cloth plug as part of UP....

ianr
11-28-2018, 08:46 AM
listen to HR ,cos they LW3DG atm have Hills to climb.

M.D is the best works with Lightwave ,if you ask safarifx

nicely then he may post his facebook tutorial. M.D. is seamless

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 02:03 PM
Yeah, looking like MD is the way to go at the moment..its fast, accurate and ez to use. At least until we get a better thing in LW...Plus in MD you have the choice of designing the clothing or even importing an obj to use as the cloth.

hrgiger
11-28-2018, 03:12 PM
I've used Bullet, syflex and now MD. No reason to use bullet or syflex after finding MD. Thing about MD is, if your cloth isn't simming right or is bunching up or stetching too much, you can adjust the cloth while its simming and correct it. You can add elastic, piping, zippers, buttons... you have tons of cloth presets that behave as each type of cloth would. You can also control the output of your mesh to be quads if you want, you get UVs... And when you're using marvelous, there is no weighting of parts of your cloth to move with your character, its all simulated and can even layer cloths on top of one another. There's also a wind controller if you want wind as part of your cloth sim. Marvelous has a ton of ways to control the look. Aside from maybe Houdini (which I would argue is less friendly to use and not as direct), don't know that there's a better cloth system out there outside of proprietary software.

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 03:16 PM
Indeed. Until now I just used it to make static clothing, but now getting the animation part of it down, its definately my go to for cloth sim, until something better comes along.

The retopology is great too..yeah it's just linear cuts...but much better than the weird looks MD makes by default.

jwiede
11-28-2018, 03:55 PM
How good is Syflex inside LW.

I find Syflex quite fast and usable for many cloth needs (enough so that I have it for both LW & Modo), depends on the complexity involved as always the case with dynamics.

The one thing I like more about Syflex over MD is that Syflex works within LW itself, and thus allows for a level of interactivity and fast tweaking/optimization that app-external solutions can't really match. At the same time, there's no question that MD offers a much better "cloth design" environment compared to Syflex. Both are very powerful solutions, each just offers slightly different benefits.

lwanmtr
11-28-2018, 03:57 PM
Never tried Syflex, cept a short time in XSI

hrgiger
11-28-2018, 05:19 PM
The one thing I like more about Syflex over MD is that Syflex works within LW itself, and thus allows for a level of interactivity and fast tweaking/optimization that app-external solutions can't really match. At the same time, there's no question that MD offers a much better "cloth design" environment compared to Syflex. Both are very powerful solutions, each just offers slightly different benefits.

The problem lies in the fact that if you have to adjust your model at all because its not working in the cloth sim, its back to modeler at which point you might as well have used an external app to begin with that allows you to tweak your model as you're doing your sim.
But even beyond that workflow aspect, the dynamics are simply just that much better in MD.

erikals
11-29-2018, 05:18 AM
MD is more of a fast dynamics preset solution, where the dynamics "just works"
unsure if the MD dynamics itself is better than Syflex, but in MD it is certainly more user friendly. (+the other bonus parts about MD)

one thing i've noticed is that MD seems to "stiffen" certain parts of the simulation slightly.

totally recommend MD now that it is 50%

ianr
11-29-2018, 06:00 AM
If you where a cutter on garment production line.... Schmatta,
it's so good he would be totally at home.
Can't give it better praise!
I know because I worked next to a line for a short while.(summer uni break)

Oldcode
11-29-2018, 06:46 AM
Since its on sale, I'd get MD right now but for one thing.

What they need to make it complete IMHO is a Tear feature. A way to have the cloth separate/rip/break at a certain moment.

I'm working on a shot now where I have a sword fight and I want one character's shirt to be cut by the sword. Right now, I'm doing it with two different versions of the shirt, one with the cut, one without, then doing a quick cut between them with a different camera angle. It's a cheat, but its the only way I can do it now.

I wrote to MD when I first visited their website and asked about this, but they said they don't have a feature like that yet. Don't know if they ever will. :(

Cageman
11-29-2018, 06:48 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I use "cloth dynamics" for a lot of things that aren't really clothing. MD might be the best solution for actual clothes, but... alas, there are many, many things I use "cloth dynamics" for that aren't clothes.

erikals
11-29-2018, 11:04 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I use "cloth dynamics" for a lot of things that aren't really clothing. MD might be the best solution for actual clothes, but... alas, there are many, many things I use "cloth dynamics" for that aren't clothes.
Abs-o-lutely!   :)
trees, snow, slime, haystacks, you name it.


I wrote to MD when I first visited their website and asked about this, but they said they don't have a feature like that yet. Don't know if they ever will.
i think MD can these days, seem to recall reading it somewhere...
Zipper ?   https://youtu.be/uP57VT2B7ns
not sure, maybe ask at the MD forums
i think Syflex did add the feature just recently... (?) edit; yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgnbdQ5dBcc

prometheus
11-29-2018, 12:58 PM
Yep!
Clothfx can be used for a lot..
Especially since it also records particle collisions, so I could do crater hits with it as well, and I havenīt been able to replicate waterFX with the bullet soft dynamics as good as I can with clothfx.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_nW8izrHYs

jwiede
11-29-2018, 02:23 PM
i think Syflex did add the feature just recently... (?) edit; yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgnbdQ5dBcc

Well, they've had it for almost two years now, that's a bit more than "just recently".

lwanmtr
11-29-2018, 04:06 PM
Would be nice if they had a demo for Syflex I could try....Sent them an email to see if they have one. Im still leaning toward MD (cause I already have that)..but if it works as good.....

jwiede
11-29-2018, 04:48 PM
Would be nice if they had a demo for Syflex I could try....Sent them an email to see if they have one. Im still leaning toward MD (cause I already have that)..but if it works as good.....

If you already have MD (is it recent?), then I'd definitely pursue using that unless you have specific needs it cannot meet. If there are such needs, let me know and I can probably help answer whether Syflex will resolve them (and depending on complexity, might even be able to run a test to show it).

lwanmtr
11-29-2018, 04:51 PM
I have MD8...havent found any specific needs that cant be met, other than a lil more control over loops than md has with its patterns.

jwiede
11-29-2018, 04:53 PM
I have MD8...havent found any specific needs that cant be met, other than a lil more control over loops than md has with its patterns.

Yeah, in that case, you're best off using MD, rather than worrying about Syflex.

lwanmtr
11-29-2018, 05:01 PM
Does Syflex do anything that will help with hair dynamics and ffx?

erikals
11-29-2018, 05:28 PM
hi, according to this, yes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8j1ECepjWE

lwanmtr
11-29-2018, 05:29 PM
Well thats something I dont think MD will help with...lol

erikals
11-29-2018, 05:35 PM
true   :)

both apps have pros/cons

i aim to buy them both, we'll see   :)

lwanmtr
11-29-2018, 05:38 PM
Always good to have options.